The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[David Hingtgen]

On 6/4/2025 at 11:44 PM, Chronocidal said:

I had this issue too, and didn't notice it so much with the first release, but I think what's going on is some slight mis-alignment/mis-molding of the plate just above the backpack hinge.

When I took mind apart, I had issues with the tiny screw that's buried under the hip swingbar.  I have a tiny screwdriver that fits in there, but as it turns out, I don't believe those screws were actually biting into the plastic.  If I lift up on the backpack, you can see the two prongs that hold the gnurled pin inserted into the hip swingbar are lifting away from the backplate, meaning that screw isn't holding things together.  When I tried screwing it in, it just spun, so I have to assume those tiny holes stripped out.

I do not know if this is the direct cause, but I think the looseness of that assembly is contributing to the booster mount catching.  Because the panels flex, it's causing the trapezoid panel just ahead of the backpack hinge to lift, and it's catching directly on the booster mount when you try to slide it on.

What I did just now as a test was to file down the squared off edges on the front underside of the backpack bracket to let it slip over that back panel edge easier.  It's the section directly inboard of the booster mounts, and it's already beveled somewhat, but I just rounded off the front underside edge further until it's about at a 45 degree angle, and it helped it not to catch on the backplate.  I can take a picture tomorrow where I mean, I'm about to head to bed.  

Glad to hear the arm repair was a success though!  It's so refreshing working on valks you can actually take apart.  

I compared Jetfire to an early Roy, and I see what you mean----a real one has this edge smooth and rounded, while Jetfire has it quite sharp and squared off:

I do not think that is whole story though--your backplate looseness theory also seems to play a role----Jetfire's clip fits onto Roy pretty well, despite the sharp edge.  I think it's the double-whammy of the sharp edge AND the backplate having issues, that combine to make attaching the booster-clip such a struggle.  

[Chronocidal]

I should pull out a set to compare myself.  Might be the perspective on the photo, but it looks like those beveled surfaces are wider on the Jetfire version.

Thanks for the illustration though, that's exactly the edge I rounded off.  You make a good point about it fitting easier on the Yamato though.

One difference I did notice, and it's probably also related, is that Yamato never glued down the tail plate to the backplate.  In all the ones I took apart, once I removed all three main screws (wings and under the hip bar) the whole backpack would fall off, because it was only held by that locator pin.

On Jetfire?  Those pins are glued in, and from what I can tell, while they're not exactly sticking up, I don't think the backpack mounts are sitting all the way flush.  Those pins were probably glued specifically because the parts weren't fitting together well enough for that third screw to bite, and hold it down.  The end result is that the backpack mounting plate is sticking up for the booster bracket to catch on.

In other news though, just got a notification that my pair of Su-27s is on the way (I know, they call it something else, don't really care ).  I don't know if I'm adventurous enough to do a full Yellow 13 scheme, but it's very likely they'll both be getting new insignia.

[David Hingtgen]

Ironically, they're not glued in ENOUGH now, I think.  Looking carefully at how the backplate flexes etc, on Roy----I actually decided to glue down Jetfire's as flush as I can. Then will reinforce it   THEN see if I can get it to clip both in and out, nicely.

The screw just isn't enough, at least not with the cheaper (more translucent?) plastic Jetfire's made of.  It's definitely lighter/more flexible it seems.  

(also, a Roy booster really doesn't want to fit onto a Jetfire clip)

[shazam]

 

[sh9000]

DK-70.

[mikeszekely]

Dunno about the slippers, but the rest of that kit really looks like it improves those two.

[M'Kyuun]

10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Dunno about the slippers, but the rest of that kit really looks like it improves those two.

I was thinking the same thing. All I really wanted were two longer forearms with retractable hands for Bonecrusher, but I'm impressed by how much better his torso appears and by the range of gained articulation. Upgrade in the truest sense. I'm fine with Bonecrusher's stock feet, so the slippers 😄 will stay in the box along with the bugles. I was fine with the hollow bits on Scrapper, but it's nice that they're including fillers for him in the same kit. I have to smile at the presumption that if you have one fig, you're going to have the other one too. 😁  The fillers for Scrapper's calves seem a bit superfluous as they don't really fill the hollows but merely add another couple mms of plastic to their interiors. I hope the new piece that attaches directly to Bonecrusher's shovel has a tight joint as well as a well toleranced tab otherwise his shovel is just going to fall off of his chest. It's not a bad idea to impart some articulation, but the downside is having his chest fall off all the time having lost its anchor to his groin.

Nevertheless, I want this kit, if only for those replacement arms. I'll try the rest to test their efficacy, but I have a bad feeling about Bonecrusher's chest.

Casting about, it appears that it's a TFSource exclusive for now. I don't want to pay their markup, so I'm waiting to see if TFSafari gets it.

Edited June 14 by M'Kyuun

[Chronocidal]

So the post office dropped a monster on my doorstep today.  I'd been waiting on my pair of Su-27s from ShowZ, and when I saw the size of the box, I guessed they must have doubled them up.

No. This thing is huge.

I happened to have my Jetfires handy to pose for comparison in both modes, and they're not too far off in scale, but it just emphasizes exactly how big a plane this is.

Comes in at near 16 inches long, so roughly 1/54 scale.  Given the sizes of the previous ones, I did not expect something this big at all.

Maybe I'll transform him.. but I might wait for the second to arrive before I mess with it.   The manual is just as much a monster as the plane, so I expect it might take an hour or two to get through on a first run.

Just in general though, I think a new bar has been set for plastic airplane origami.  Looking over the jet, I think the only corner they cut was that the belly is a bit thicker than it should be, but it's completely hidden unless you view it head-on.  I'm no expert on the Su-27, so the proportions of the nose might be a bit inflated, but without comparing it directly, I'm really not seeing anything stick out as being off-model.

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

So the post office dropped a monster on my doorstep today.  I'd been waiting on my pair of Su-27s from ShowZ, and when I saw the size of the box, I guessed they must have doubled them up.

No. This thing is huge.

I happened to have my Jetfires handy to pose for comparison in both modes, and they're not too far off in scale, but it just emphasizes exactly how big a plane this is.

Comes in at near 16 inches long, so roughly 1/54 scale.  Given the sizes of the previous ones, I did not expect something this big at all.

Maybe I'll transform him.. but I might wait for the second to arrive before I mess with it.   The manual is just as much a monster as the plane, so I expect it might take an hour or two to get through on a first run.

Just in general though, I think a new bar has been set for plastic airplane origami.  Looking over the jet, I think the only corner they cut was that the belly is a bit thicker than it should be, but it's completely hidden unless you view it head-on.  I'm no expert on the Su-27, so the proportions of the nose might be a bit inflated, but without comparing it directly, I'm really not seeing anything stick out as being off-model.

Just checked tracking on mine; it's currently in LA, presumably at LAX waiting for transport. I figure it'll reach me around Thursday. Appreciate the pics, man. Having watched a transformation vid for this thing, it's going to be a slow, meticulous process the first time I transform it. Once I get it in bot mode, I probably won't touch it again. I appreciate the engineering that goes into these complex toys and the toys themselves for the wonders that they are, but there's little fun to be had when transforming the majority of them for fear of breaking something, missing a step, or getting it something wrong and fouling the whole process up. The hard part will be deciding whether to keep it in bot mode, or tackle the transformation once again to get it back in jet mode, as I've long wished for a decent MiG-27 transformer and this is so much better than I ever expected it could be. Knowing myself, it'll just stay in bot mode, but the satisfaction of knowing it can be turned into this gorgeous plane will remain and keep me contented.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

MiG-27

Su-27 (technically J-16, if we're being pedantic).  MiG-27 is a totally different (and far uglier, IMHO) beast.

[Chronocidal]

Whatever it is is potentially going to wind up in Erusean markings eventually, but I'm not sure if I'm going to try the entire scheme.   Maybe just the insignia and highlights.

[M'Kyuun]

14 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Su-27 (technically J-16, if we're being pedantic).  MiG-27 is a totally different (and far uglier, IMHO) beast.

I stand corrected. I meant Su-27, but it was quite late, and my brain wasn't running on all cylinders at the time. And yeah, J-16 is the Chinese designation for their version.

And while the MiG-27 Flogger isn't that bad, it's certainly no Flanker in terms of aesthetics. The MiG-29 and Su-27 are two of the loveliest fighters in the world, IMHO.

Edited Sunday at 08:32 PM by M'Kyuun

[M'Kyuun]

After about four and half hours, I finally got the thing transformed. The transformation itself wasn't too bad, although I encountered a little difficulty understanding what was being done once I reached the groin section in the instructions and switched to a video for the rest. Other issues I had were really tight panel connections- this thing was so well engineered that it's often difficult to tell where the panels separate and getting them to do so, I had trouble getting the shoulders to snap into place, I didn't move the waist connector far enough initially- it has a strong snap- so I partially dismantled the torso for better access. I initially couldn't figure out how to get the loincloth to fold and was afraid of breaking it, so I finagled with that for a while. It's complex, not altogether intuitive IMHO, interesting to say the least, and well-executed overall. The fighter mode is gorgeous, and as I mentioned, unlike most Hasbro/Takara stuff, the panel lines are very difficult to spot and sometimes not at all, so well-toleranced is the molding. A tool for separating panels and such is pretty much a necessity, and Touch Toys has you covered as they provide one. It comes in a sealed pouch along with some cards. In my infinite wisdom, I thought it was just a bonus weapon, so I put it back in the pouch. I didn't realize what it was for until I watched the video (Mangmotion) thus I'll spare anyone here getting a copy the mistake I made as well as your fingernails. It's definitely a neat figure and I'm glad I got him. I've long wished for a transforming Su-27 Flanker, or a close facsimile thereof, and this scratches that particular itch. 

While I don't expect Takara to make their stuff this complex, they could learn a thing or two about making seamless realistic transforming fighters from Touch Toys. Well, it's quite late and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. Cheers all.

[Scyla]

Thanks @M'Kyuun for the short review.

The me the problem with Transformers that turn into jets is that they are designed as robots first.

So if the robot-mode is your focus the designer is limited to what they can achieve, especially when they are designing a toy that is supposedly made for kids. 

The other way around is much easier and you can see it with this toy and you can see it with Kawamori’s Valkyrie designs where the fighter-mode has the top priority and the mecha mode is derived from it. 

If you large surface areas of your fighter like wings and tail fins just can form a cape or the whole engine area can form just the leg on it’s own you have a much easier time then trying to turn a block into a sleek fuselage.

Is this jet an impressive engineering feat? Absolutely? Could Takara’s engineers do a better job designing sleeker airframes? I think so (and FansToys Maverick is proof you can do it).

But it is not that Takara is not capable of doing it, they are just bound by different constraints.

[Chronocidal]

I feel like the biggest "constraint" they deal with is just deciding that it's not worth the effort when people don't seem to care about how ugly the jets are when all they want is a good action figure that looks like the character from a cartoon.

You're right about the character designs though.  When they aren't hampered by fitting an established character into a jet body we get things like the Tomcat Maverick they released. 

And while I know lots of people didn't like certain aspects of Kawamori's attempt at a Seeker mold, I think he established a very solid foundation for how you could fit a really good figure into the F-15 body without getting stupidly lazy like the most recent MP Seeker.

I really want to see someone take another crack at that general torso layout, but using more modern methods in the legs.  Just something that plays with creative rearrangments of the components to give us a more streamlined jet while still giving decent character accuracy.  Like since the legs and jet taper opposite directions, what if the shins flipped upside down?  Lots of options to try there.

[M'Kyuun]

5 hours ago, Scyla said:

Thanks @M'Kyuun for the short review.

The me the problem with Transformers that turn into jets is that they are designed as robots first.

So if the robot-mode is your focus the designer is limited to what they can achieve, especially when they are designing a toy that is supposedly made for kids. 

The other way around is much easier and you can see it with this toy and you can see it with Kawamori’s Valkyrie designs where the fighter-mode has the top priority and the mecha mode is derived from it. 

If you large surface areas of your fighter like wings and tail fins just can form a cape or the whole engine area can form just the leg on it’s own you have a much easier time then trying to turn a block into a sleek fuselage.

Is this jet an impressive engineering feat? Absolutely? Could Takara’s engineers do a better job designing sleeker airframes? I think so (and FansToys Maverick is proof you can do it).

But it is not that Takara is not capable of doing it, they are just bound by different constraints.

I appreciate your insights, Scyla, and you're correct so far as the design methodologies and prioritization. Maverick was indeed done far better than Takara's usual fare, but they also took obvious inspiration from the VF-1 to their credit. Perhaps Kawamori even offered them some guidance. Regardless, it's a rare example of a more realistic and sleek jet mode uncompromised by blocky robot bits or arms dangling off the sides of the plane.  When they worked with Kawamori to design MP-03, what we got was arguably the most accurate F-15 fighter mode in TF history, but the bot mode suffered a number of concessions for it. Contrarily, MP-52 went entirely in the opposite direction and what we got was an extremely toon accurate bot mode with a heavily compromised F-15 mode.  The pendulum swing within the franchise is pretty wide.  Obviously, I prefer Kawamori's approach, as he is able to cobble some really nice-looking bot modes from sleek realistic albeit fictional fighters. I wish the fighter mode was a little more important to Takara, that they would strike a greater balance making both modes look good instead of prioritizing the bot. I realize, too, that, at least when dealing with G1 jetformers, they're tied to their blocky 80s robot designs and cubes and sleek jets do not a good formula make so far as preserving the latter.

They have proven, however, such as with Legacy Prime Dreadwing/Skyquake, that they are capable of making a sleeker jet, even if this particular example is a bit on the chonky side. Still it integrates the arms and the overall appearance looks proportional and jet-like. I have both characters b/c I liked the mold so much.

32 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I feel like the biggest "constraint" they deal with is just deciding that it's not worth the effort when people don't seem to care about how ugly the jets are when all they want is a good action figure that looks like the character from a cartoon.

You're right about the character designs though.  When they aren't hampered by fitting an established character into a jet body we get things like the Tomcat Maverick they released. 

And while I know lots of people didn't like certain aspects of Kawamori's attempt at a Seeker mold, I think he established a very solid foundation for how you could fit a really good figure into the F-15 body without getting stupidly lazy like the most recent MP Seeker.

I really want to see someone take another crack at that general torso layout, but using more modern methods in the legs.  Just something that plays with creative rearrangments of the components to give us a more streamlined jet while still giving decent character accuracy.  Like since the legs and jet taper opposite directions, what if the shins flipped upside down?  Lots of options to try there.

I read your comment even while I was in the midst of typing my own. As ususal, our perspectives match. And, seeing Scyla's point, too, I don't think it's necessarily that Takara can't pull off a sleek fighter mode, as they've proven they can, but they're just not interested in doing so most of the time, which is unfortunate as they do a disservice to people like us who really like jets and wish more TFs enjoyed sleeker, more realistic or accurate jet modes without being so heavily compromised for the sake of the bot mode. hell they can make a pretty realistic motorcycle turn into a decent bot, but not a jet. It's purely a lack of care, and yeah, I think it's b/c the fandom has been fed shitty jet modes for 40 years so why start trying now. I think it's telling that Maverick got a lot of negative commentary from fans; it just shows that they've been indoctrinated into accepting egregiously compromised jets. I had to cringe when I watched vid reviews of a few of the recent Aerialbots with commentors gushing over how good the jet looked. Like, really? Have you ever seen an F-15, a Harrier, an F-4 Pjhantom, the Concorde, or an F-16? I just have to shrug and shake my head. But yep, TF fans love shitty jet modes and Takara/Hasbro by extension, is there for them. Thank goodness I can take refuge in Macross and that companies like Touch toys are bringing an alternate reality for fans of transforming robots and sleek jets.

Edited 4 hours ago by M'Kyuun