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63254109th Zentradi Outer Space Army stole a VF-X11 aka YF-11 with a Fold Booster in a mutiny in 203p, during the Second Defensive Battle of Macross City.

According to Macross Chronicle Technology 3B Emigrant Ships several tens of  thousands of Anti-Earth Zentradi informally left Earth in solo emigration ships and almost always contact was lost. Was 63254109th Zentradi Outer Space Army which reappeared in Macross VF-X in 2047 one of those groups? 

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Just curious what people's thoughts are; does each main fleet have a factory of each type [I.E. battlepod, officer pod, power armor] or does a single factory of a single type equip every fleet?

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2 hours ago, briscojr84 said:

Just curious what people's thoughts are; does each main fleet have a factory of each type [I.E. battlepod, officer pod, power armor] or does a single factory of a single type equip every fleet?

A Main Fleet has typically 20 to 50 factory satellites supplying them. The one in SDFK where they robbed Dagao was a Regult factory. The Supervision Army damaged the Glaug factory satellite so it is rare. 

Factory Satellites range from the Soldier manufacturing at 5 km, to battleship class manufacturing at 50 km and main command ship class manufacturing at 500 km. It is said there is a Mother Plant that builds Factory Satellites somewhere in the Orion Arm.

So around Earth's general sector.neighborbhood is around 20 Factory Satellites NUN stole from the 118th Main Fleet and who knows how many acquired through the years. The Protodevlin Arsenal is in the possession of Fasces. That Factory Satellite does not need drones to mine resources to process as it can make armaments without them. Except it has a Protodevlin password that needs the same Spiritia frequency as them. (Neat thing about the word Protodevlin the word Proto means Old while Devlan means Enemy in Zentradi. The Protodevlin are literally the Old Enemy.)

If that is concerning somewhere out there is a second hand Mobile Fortress in Macross VF-X and we don't  know what happened to it.

1DlrSjA.png

It is still relatively intact as the Zentradi Commander who is as big as Golg Bodolle Zer was killed. It wasn't  self destructing like the one in DYRL. UN Spacy did not use a fleet just one VF and a small stealth ship to stop this Mobile Fortress from attacking Earth. Operation Sound used what was learned from Macross 7 with Song Energy. It was originally just a rescue operation of the Milky Dolls. Think Proto-Walkure. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, briscojr84 said:

Just curious what people's thoughts are; does each main fleet have a factory of each type [I.E. battlepod, officer pod, power armor] or does a single factory of a single type equip every fleet?

Officially, it's the former... except it's way more than just one factory satellite of each type.

According to the official encyclopedia Macross Chronicle, the Regult alone has several million factory satellites devoted to its mass production scattered across the galaxy.  Each of the smaller fleets that makes up a Main Fleet has a logistical backbone of anywhere from twenty to fifty factory satellites producing its men and materiel.  Over the millennia, some types of factory satellite have been targeted as strategic objectives and destroyed such as the plants producing thermonuclear reaction ordnance and the ones producing the Glaug Battle Pod, so the number varies a bit more than it did at the height of the Protoculture's civilization.

To give you an idea of the scale at work here... if we assume Vrlitwhai's branch fleet of 1,213 ships and its parent Main Fleet of 4,795,122 ships were average sizes for the Zentradi, and that each branch fleet had just one factory satellite providing it with Regult battle pods, there were potentially TWENTY MILLION fully automated plants producing the Regult in the Protoculture's golden age.

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5 hours ago, RedWolf said:

63254109th Zentradi Outer Space Army stole a VF-X11 aka YF-11 with a Fold Booster in a mutiny in 203p, during the Second Defensive Battle of Macross City.

According to Macross Chronicle Technology 3B Emigrant Ships several tens of  thousands of Anti-Earth Zentradi informally left Earth in solo emigration ships and almost always contact was lost. Was 63254109th Zentradi Outer Space Army which reappeared in Macross VF-X in 2047 one of those groups? 

Presumably.

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11 hours ago, RedWolf said:

If that is concerning somewhere out there is a second hand Mobile Fortress in Macross VF-X and we don't  know what happened to it.

 

If memory serves, that Mobile Fortress had successfully made a space fold to Earth, and was in the process of attacking Earth when it was stopped (in or near orbit).

However, the events depicted in Digital Mission VF-X are a bit of a grey area.  Official chronologies acknowledge that the Milky Dolls were kidnapped and the VF-X unit were involved in their rescue (the setting at the start of the game) ... and then nothing else is mentioned about it!  It's almost like Kawamori-san doesn't know how to incorporate it, or has selectively forgotten the conclusion of the game!

Our only recourse is to revert to Kawamori-san's standard answer about the differences between the Macross series: what we're seeing is an in-universe fictionalization of real events.  So, what was depicted as the Mobile Fortress may just have been another Beginhill Training Ship used as a stand-in (like the Mobile Fortress in the in-universe production of DYRL) and the real enemy ship was something else, and the attack on Earth may not have been as large in scale as the game suggests that it was.

 

Assuming that the game events happened as depicted, the Mobile Fortress was decrepit: it was abandoned and buried on a planet for eons, had only been recently rediscovered by Lost Zentradi (from the Bodoru Main Fleet), who had recently reactivated it (as official sources state that those ships have a self-repair function, the restoration of the ship is a given, but the question on the pace and extent of those repairs remains).  As those Zentradi appeared to be more focused on developing and producing enhanced versions of the Zentradi pods (the so-called 'Stealth' variant), the state of that Mobile Fortress after the conclusion of the game is questionable at best.

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1 hour ago, sketchley said:

If memory serves, that Mobile Fortress had successfully made a space fold to Earth, and was in the process of attacking Earth when it was stopped (in or near orbit).

Did it? My impression is that the Mobile Fortress lifted off but was stopped cold before it Space Folded to Earth.

JLrhLhJ.png

 

The biggest ships the rebel Zentradi had were heavily modified Quel-Quallie. Their plan was either use the main gun of the Mobile Fortress or do as much damage with it. Earth I think would've used its fleet, defense satellites and Reaction Weapons to put it down. The Valhalla III Commander relented to Milky Dolls request that Aoi that is still prisoner be rescued. 

As said who has custody of this thing is concerning considering what we know a couple of years down the line with Lactence in Macross  VF-X2. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Did it? My impression is that the Mobile Fortress lifted off but was stopped cold before it Space Folded to Earth.

JLrhLhJ.png

 

The biggest ships the rebel Zentradi had were heavily modified Quel-Quallie. Their plan was either use the main gun of the Mobile Fortress or do as much damage with it. Earth I think would've used its fleet, defense satellites and Reaction Weapons to put it down. The Valhalla III Commander relented to Milky Dolls request that Aoi that is still prisoner be rescued. 

As said who has custody of this thing is concerning considering what we know a couple of years down the line with Lactence in Macross  VF-X2. 

 

 

It's been awhile since I played that game, but didn't it do a space fold just after the hero penetrates inside the ship?

I may be forgetting things, as it's been ages since I played that game.  Too much "fly to the next checkpoint" and not enough jumping straight to the action! :lol:

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23 hours ago, RedWolf said:

If that is concerning somewhere out there is a second hand Mobile Fortress in Macross VF-X and we don't  know what happened to it.

No, we know what happened to it... it's space junk.

It'd already suffered enough battle damage to disable it in the fleet engagement that caused it to crash on Elysium in the distant past.  If you look at its sprite in-game, the mobile fortress's command section is mostly just straight-up missing and the rest of the hull is liberally pockmarked by city-sized breaches.  It was barely able to lift off after millennia of self-repair and some TLC from the Zentradi terrorists, and its defenses were mostly inoperable.

Once its living command computer was killed by the VF-X Special Forces pilot player-character, it was little more than an elaborate and extremely large paperweight.

 

23 hours ago, RedWolf said:

It is still relatively intact as the Zentradi Commander who is as big as Golg Bodolle Zer was killed. It wasn't  self destructing like the one in DYRL.

It was already a wreck... there was enough of it missing that, if the fold system clusters were running amok and teleporting chunks of the ship into fold space, you'd never know by looking at it with all the battle damage it already had beforehand.  Who's gonna notice a few extra dents in a car that already looks like it went ten rounds with the MythBusters?

 

 

11 hours ago, sketchley said:

However, the events depicted in Digital Mission VF-X are a bit of a grey area.  Official chronologies acknowledge that the Milky Dolls were kidnapped and the VF-X unit were involved in their rescue (the setting at the start of the game) ... and then nothing else is mentioned about it!  It's almost like Kawamori-san doesn't know how to incorporate it, or has selectively forgotten the conclusion of the game!

Or it's considered such a minor event that it hardly bears mentioning.

After all, it wasn't a major threat or even a major incident.  It was a high-profile civilian kidnapping by a minor terrorist group that was cleaned up quickly and discreetly way out in the galactic boonies by a single VF-X Special Forces team with barely enough manpower to field their own side in a baseball game.

Or, alternatively, it was covered up in part or in full by the New UN Government and/or New UN Forces like the official setting Sharon Apple incident or the non-canonical "Spica Shock" from the VF-19 Master File.

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What are the known effects of Fold Faults besides interfering with Space Folding? Giggle mentions in Macross 7 episode 36 the island they are on has Energy Faults that interfere with either with a VF's computer or Reaction Engines. In Macross u episode 38 Valgo warped the Space-Time continuum that prevented.Macross 7 from Folding out

 

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3 hours ago, RedWolf said:

What are the known effects of Fold Faults besides interfering with Space Folding? Giggle mentions in Macross 7 episode 36 the island they are on has Energy Faults that interfere with either with a VF's computer or Reaction Engines. In Macross u episode 38 Valgo warped the Space-Time continuum that prevented.Macross 7 from Folding out

AFAIK, fold faults haven't been established to have any effects besides obstructing fold navigation and fold communication.

Macross Frontier's 13th episode, Memory of Global, had something called a "D-Pulse burst" that appears to be some kind of fold wave interference (fold wave EMP equivalent?) that's potent enough to knock out the controls on Alto's VF-25F and disable the long-range detection systems of the 33rd NUNS Marines.

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9 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Was the Salvage Ship that we just saw only 1 time based off the Glaug Power Up? Or vice versa? I can see some similarities.

Not that I'm aware... there's basically nothing written about the Recovery Pod.  Even its coverage in Macross Chronicle is minimal and mainly limited to statements of the obvious.

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14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not that I'm aware... there's basically nothing written about the Recovery Pod.  Even its coverage in Macross Chronicle is minimal and mainly limited to statements of the obvious.

Hm.. Don't know if you see the same similarities like me? The arms and the engines. 

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15 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

Hm.. Don't know if you see the same similarities like me? The arms and the engines. 

There are definitely some visible similarities, but it could easily be parallel evolution rather than evidence of relation.

Or, in light of current continuity, they could both be based on the same form of vajra.

 

But that's just speculation.

Edited by JB0
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1 hour ago, Invid99 said:

Was the Salvage Ship that we just saw only 1 time based off the Glaug Power Up? Or vice versa? I can see some similarities.

It's not so much that one is based off the other, but that the Zentrādi mecha as a whole share the same theme: they're all pods.

Even the Battle Suits are variants on the "pod with limbs" theme.  This is more apparent in the Quadoran-Rō than the Nūjaderu-Gā, of course.

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1 hour ago, Invid99 said:

Hm.. Don't know if you see the same similarities like me? The arms and the engines. 

No more than to any other piece of Zentradi equipment, really.

They have a pretty consistent design aesthetic.

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Is the Prometheus really supposed to be so much larger than a modern-day aircraft carrier?  M3 says it's 512m long, but a Nimitz is only 317m long.  That's quite a difference.

I bet the Macross would have looked pretty silly with a couple of Nimitzes as its arms.

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3 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Is the Prometheus really supposed to be so much larger than a modern-day aircraft carrier?  M3 says it's 512m long, but a Nimitz is only 317m long.  That's quite a difference.

I bet the Macross would have looked pretty silly with a couple of Nimitzes as its arms.

Both Daedalus and Prometheus were classified as super-large-scale ships; I take that definition as being larger than your standard naval vessels.

As a point of fact: Prometheus has four catapults on the bow of the ship, whereas your standard Nimitz-class only has two on the bow. I think that says something regarding the size of the vessels.

 

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8 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Is the Prometheus really supposed to be so much larger than a modern-day aircraft carrier?  M3 says it's 512m long, but a Nimitz is only 317m long.  That's quite a difference.

Yes, it is... the Prometheus was designed and built as an overtechnology-based next-generation supercarrier to support large-scale operations involving Variable Fighters.  It had quite a few unusual characteristics, like the ability to submerge almost the entire ship and run with only the island containing control tower and bridge above water for stealth purposes, and submerge the entire ship for brief periods.  (The Daedalus could do the same thing, and in the manga Macross the First uses that capability in an unconventional way... to ram an Anti-Unification Forces submarine pursuing it.)

The UN Forces intention behind building such a large aircraft carrier is not touched on in depth in official setting material.  Variable Fighter Master File offers its own explanation in the form of the Prometheus and Daedalus being intended to be the lead ships of their respective classes, with each of the UN Navy's five fleets theoretically having a pair as a heavyweight rapid reaction force in the event of an alien invasion of Earth's surface.

 

8 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

I bet the Macross would have looked pretty silly with a couple of Nimitzes as its arms.

Not half as strange as it looks in some fan art pieces that give it Space Battleship Yamato's Yamato and Arcadia of my Youth's Arcadia for arms.

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The SDF-1 is amongst the smaller vessel if we compare it to the Zentraedi fleet. So I wonder if the Supervision Army was likely human size? Maybe their mechas was also close to the UN Spacy by being humanoid.

 

43318.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

The SDF-1 is amongst the smaller vessel if we compare it to the Zentraedi fleet. So I wonder if the Supervision Army was likely human size? Maybe their mechas was also close to the UN Spacy by being humanoid.

Negative. It was just a small class of ship. 

We as viewers know with certainty that the crew were giants from the massive airlock when Hikaru and Minmay were trapped in the ship's unremodelled innards.

Focker's statements in the first battle that he knew the aliens were giants, but not that they were human, implies this as well, since all humanity's knowledge of extraterrestrial life came from the ASS-1. It therefore had to contain evidence of giants, such as oversized doors and chairs and equipment. (It actually seems unlikely they wouldn't know the aliens were human, but this information was likely only shared at the highest levels. )

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Just read the Macross Chronicle Timeline on it. The Supervsion Army or Inspection Army were all giant like Zentradi were. It is possible for NUNS to encounter them and not be able to tell a difference between them and Zentradi as they share equipment. After the Factory Satellite capture operation a Supervsion Army ship was never encountered again as far as we know. As least the Class the ASS-1 belongs to must be super rare. But it not unheard of Zentradi having rare mecha like the Enemy Battle Suit in Macross Plus and the Quadluun-Alma in Macross the Ride. It would not surprise me if the ASS-1 was entirely automated. The Protodevlin switched tactics to using drones once Basara started freeing VF pilots of mind control again and again. They could've done it before.

The prevailing theory in Macross Chronicle is that the Supervsion Army was the brainwashed Zentradi and Protoculture by the Protodevlin. However SDF Macross hints the Protoculture Civil War was between the Zentradi Army and Supervision Army. 

Giggile's Varauta Battleship was originally to be called a Supervsion Army battleship. So idea is any poor smuck under mind control devices of the Protodevlin are Supervision Army. 

You know what is so bad? A terrorist organization Fasces, formerly a remnant of Lactence, has in their possession not only the Varauta VFs but also Protodevlin Arsenal Factory Satellite that can brainwash people. And they have been hijacking ships taking their crews adding them as troops. Angers 672 killed their pro-Earth leader Naresuan with intention to spread war in the galaxy. While Bab II their flagship was destroyed by SMS their commander Angers 672 is MIA. 

On another note if Macross Galaxy survived would it be considered an disowned fleet? Macross 7 was left on its own by Earth giving Max a sense of deja vu like what happened 35 years before with the Macross. In Macross 7 Earth just gave up on three fleets. Namely Macross 7, Macross 5 and Megaroad-13. If the Frontier movies are metafictional portrayals like DYRL for the NUN Macross Galaxy for all intent is already dead. Not to mention Earth, other planets and fleets do not trust Macross Galaxy for its espionage activities and  of yes attempted conquest of the galaxy using the Vajra.

 

Edited by RedWolf
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54 minutes ago, Invid99 said:

The SDF-1 is amongst the smaller vessel if we compare it to the Zentraedi fleet. So I wonder if the Supervision Army was likely human size? Maybe their mechas was also close to the UN Spacy by being humanoid.

Eh... yes and no.

The Supervision Army began as an improvised military force the Protodeviln created using the Protoculture and Zentradi they captured, drained of their spiritia, and brainwashed to fight for them.  There were miclones among them because part of the force was made up of brainwashed Protoculture civilians, but much of their force was composed of Zentradi soldiers who'd been unable to fight back against the brainwashed Protoculture due to their primary directives prohibiting interference with the Protoculture.

The Supervision Army gunship that became the Macross is not small because it was intended for a miclone crew... it was just a small class of ship to begin with, a medium-scale gunship analogous to the Zentradi medium-scale gunship.  

Since much of their force consisted of captured Zentradi, most of their equipment is Zentradi in origin.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

The Supervsion Army or Inspection Army were all giant like Zentradi were.

It's probable that they are in the modern day, they weren't initially.

 

5 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

As least the Class the ASS-1 belongs to must be super rare.

At no point is it referred to as a rare class... a low encounter rate is justified given that the Supervision Army withdrew from the region of space around Earth in the 1960s.

 

5 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

The prevailing theory in Macross Chronicle is that the Supervsion Army was the brainwashed Zentradi and Protoculture by the Protodevlin. However SDF Macross hints the Protoculture Civil War was between the Zentradi Army and Supervision Army. 

... because, when the original series was made, the lore hadn't been fleshed out yet.  It's not a competing theory, so don't cite it like one.

 

5 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Giggile's Varauta Battleship was originally to be called a Supervsion Army battleship.

No, it was a ship from the Varauta system NUNS.

... and none of what you wrote after this has anything to do with the question!  Stay on topic! 

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11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, it was a ship from the Varauta system NUNS.

Yes it is but THIS IS ANIMATION! Special Macross 7 listed Gigille's ship as a Supervsion Amy ship at one point. Macross Chronicle trumps it as a source but the original info given was that it was a SA ship.

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1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

Yes it is but THIS IS ANIMATION! Special Macross 7 listed Gigille's ship as a Supervsion Amy ship at one point. Macross Chronicle trumps it as a source but the original info given was that it was a SA ship.

I know you were motived by nothing but the most earnest desire to help, the factoid wasn't correct or really relevant to the question... and it's not a case of newer material, it's that Google Translate still kinda sucks. 🤣

To hopefully lend some clarity to the matter, the "Supervision" in "Supervision Army" is written 監察 (Kansatsu).  The header on that page in the This is Animation Special: Macross 7 book says 査察 (Sasatsu) and 臨検艦 (Rinken-kan).  "Investigation - Raid(ing) Warship".  

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

At no point is it referred to as a rare class... a low encounter rate is justified given that the Supervision Army withdrew from the region of space around Earth in the 1960s.

That's pretty fortunate for mankind on earth, since that's when man started first venturing into space. Had a Supervision Army vessel taken notice of any of our attempts to get into space, the human race may very well have ended up becoming another part of their forces.

The more I learn of the backstory for Macross, the more I realize mankind has had more close calls with unfriendly forces than is right for us to be comfortable with!

Now to the matter at hand:

  

3 hours ago, Invid99 said:

The SDF-1 is amongst the smaller vessel if we compare it to the Zentraedi fleet. So I wonder if the Supervision Army was likely human size? Maybe their mechas was also close to the UN Spacy by being humanoid.

For reasons already stated, no, the ship was not "human sized". As it stands, I did a comparison recently of the SDF-1 compared to where I live; with the nearest mall to me about 3/4 of a mile away, if you parked the SDF-1 with the main engines/feet in the mall's parking lot, the freakin' bow would be just over my front yard!!!

My point here is that were it "human sized", I don't think they would necessarily have made it as big as 3/4 of a mile. That would be a lot of mass in space for a human-sized crew to move; as it stands, the Macross class doesn't exactly "turn on a dime".

At this point, I'm going to defer to Seto (hey Seto: keep in mind I have pizza! lol ).

Edited by pengbuzz
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12 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

That's pretty fortunate for mankind on earth, since that's when man started first venturing into space. Had a Supervision Army vessel taken notice of any of our attempts to get into space, the human race may very well have ended up becoming another part of their forces.

I'm not so sure... it wasn't until the Zentradi detected residual fold activity in the Sol system that anyone really sat up and took notice of Earth.  If it hadn't been for that Supervision Army ship defolding and crashing on Earth in 1999, Earth could potentially have continued to fly under the radar for centuries.

(Colonel Todo in Macross 30 certainly seems to have thought so, anyway...)

 

12 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

The more I learn of the backstory for Macross, the more I realize mankind has had more close calls with unfriendly forces than is right for us to be comfortable with!

There is a certain unintentional cosmic horror aspect to it in terms of just how insanely hostile the galaxy is thanks to the Protoculture's screwups, and how stupidly lucky humans are to have lasted as long as they have.  (Like a near-miss with extinction when the Birdhuman activated for the first time before forcibly deactivating itself via decapitation.)

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2 hours ago, JB0 said:

It is also worth noting that the ship was not originally an aircraft carrier. There's a reason a full third of its length is seemingly dedicated to a giant eff-off cannon. 

Talk about a definite lack of hospitality there...

https://clip.cafe/star-trek-insurrection-1998/isnt-the-universal-greeting-communications-are-down/

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3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm not so sure... it wasn't until the Zentradi detected residual fold activity in the Sol system that anyone really sat up and took notice of Earth.  If it hadn't been for that Supervision Army ship defolding and crashing on Earth in 1999, Earth could potentially have continued to fly under the radar for centuries.

(Colonel Todo in Macross 30 certainly seems to have thought so, anyway...)

True, but that said: all it takes is one mishap...

 

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There is a certain unintentional cosmic horror aspect to it in terms of just how insanely hostile the galaxy is thanks to the Protoculture's screwups, and how stupidly lucky humans are to have lasted as long as they have.  (Like a near-miss with extinction when the Birdhuman activated for the first time before forcibly deactivating itself via decapitation.)

Almost makes you wonder if humanity should be looking for another galaxy to move to. This one is filled with enough hostiles to scare H.R. Geiger into drawing children's books!

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Question : do zentradi ships have anything analogous to catapults, or do their mechs just burn reaction mass to get moving towards their targets?

 

9 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Almost makes you wonder if humanity should be looking for another galaxy to move to. This one is filled with enough hostiles to scare H.R. Geiger into drawing children's books!

Probably should, but that's a really long drive.

And what if the next galaxy's got their own terminally-irresponsible previous residents? Or worse, teminally-irresponsible CURRENT residents!

 

Edited by JB0
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3 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Question : do zentradi ships have anything analogous to catapults, or do their mechs just burn reaction mass to get moving towards their targets?

Good question... no firm answer?

In Ep19 of Super Dimension Fortress Macross the Power-Up Glaug's debut appears to be on something like a catapult, but it's the only example I can recall and it's not clear if it's a catapult.

 

3 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Probably should, but that's a really long drive.

A thousand light years at a time with months of down time inbetween?  That's a VERY long drive indeed.  Pack some snacks.

 

3 minutes ago, JB0 said:

And what if the next galaxy's got their own terminally-irresponsible previous residents? Or worse, teminally-irresponsible CURRENT residents!

One thing's guaranteed... Vajra.

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