Yamato 1/60 Regult w/ pilot

[eugimon]

All I am trying to understand is the fact that Yamato sells the YF-21/VF-22 for around $200+ give or take, it has a pretty complex transformation, is pretty darn large in battroid mode and a LOT of man hours had to go into research and assembly of that particular toy, which I think we can all agree is pretty darn cool. Now, the Regult's don't transform, the design is pretty straight forward and in my opinion would sell WAY more units than the 21-22's, and they want to DOUBLE the price??? Am I the only one who does NOT see the logic here????????

Because there's a lot of fixed costs involved here. Tooling costs, molding costs, training workers, these prices aren't based on how much you want the toy and they're not going to go up or down based on how popular or even complex the final product is. The 21/22 is a far more popular and milkable toy, the regult is a two foot tall egg on chicken legs and it's not even a main villain mecha, it's just cannon fodder.

Edited July 27, 2010 by eugimon

[EXO]

The difference between Yamato releasing it as a kit and Joe Schmoe releasing it as a kit is that Joe Schmoe has not the capacity to release it as a toy. Obviously we'd be thrilled if some Joe Schmoe did this and sing his praise, if he then said "I could have done this as a cheaper toy and made thousands more of them" a lot of the singing would stop.

But the capacity to release it to the public doesn't make Joe Schmoe Yamato... it makes him Bandai.

[fifbeat]

All I am trying to understand is the fact that Yamato sells the YF-21/VF-22 for around $200+ give or take, it has a pretty complex transformation, is pretty darn large in battroid mode and a LOT of man hours had to go into research and assembly of that particular toy, which I think we can all agree is pretty darn cool. Now, the Regult's don't transform, the design is pretty straight forward and in my opinion would sell WAY more units than the 21-22's, and they want to DOUBLE the price??? Am I the only one who does NOT see the logic here????????

Nope. You're not the only one.

This really expensive exclusives are a way for Yamato to make an easy buck. Plain and simple. Like you said, how can one thing be $200 and the other be a $400 non-transformable piece - and for what?

When you look at the big picture, these Yamato products cost more than a Rolex watch.

[KiriK]

Yea, i'm not too happy about the price either. I definitely think if these were toys, even $200 would be too much for me to pay when i see what comes with the kit. For me, this is comparable to how much the 1/60 Destroids should cost and have similar features. Destroids were highly detailed non transformable toys for around $80-90. I know the market isn't as huge for regults, but i don't see it have as much or more detail than the Destroids did.

[jenius]

I wouldn't quite make the argument that, if this were a toy, it should be as cheap as a destroid. There would be two toys (Zentraedi soldier AND the Regult... although I suppose the soldier could be sold separately). Really though these are bigger than Destroids and the whole cockpit area is a level of detail and complexity that I'd say exceeds the Destroids. So, I'd be willing to pay more for a Regult than a Destroid... but certainly not 5 times more for an unpainted unassembled model.

I also disagree with the logic that Yamato doesn't have the capacity to build this as a toy (but Bandai does). I would agree that they are choosing to go the model route because there is essentially NO risk there and they appear to be under much tighter budgetary restraints these days. They are making a decision to go this route, Joe Schmoe wouldn't have had a decision to make... resin would be his only option. I'm a little bit bummed I won't be getting a sweet Regult toy but I understand the economics of Yamato's choice and if that's what they feel is prudent then oh well... maybe Bandai will give us Hi-Metal baddies (LONG SHOT).

[Roy Focker]

My eyes are bleeding $$$ after seeing the 39,900 Yen price. Why Yamato???? Why?????

Actually according to Google (at the time of this post)

39900 Japanese yen = 454.1298 US dollars

Add in shipping and handling you could pay as much a $500. Plus you still have glue, paint and put it together.

[Uxi]

I'd be willing to pay about $100-120 for a decently articulated Regult in 1/60 (without pilot, which could be sold separately). Hard to believe it's not possible, but I'm sure they wouldn't be leaving money on the table, if it was doable.

Would they?

[Ignacio Ocamica]

I wouldn't quite make the argument that, if this were a toy, it should be as cheap as a destroid. There would be two toys (Zentraedi soldier AND the Regult... although I suppose the soldier could be sold separately). Really though these are bigger than Destroids and the whole cockpit area is a level of detail and complexity that I'd say exceeds the Destroids. So, I'd be willing to pay more for a Regult than a Destroid... but certainly not 5 times more for an unpainted unassembled model.

I also disagree with the logic that Yamato doesn't have the capacity to build this as a toy (but Bandai does). I would agree that they are choosing to go the model route because there is essentially NO risk there and they appear to be under much tighter budgetary restraints these days. They are making a decision to go this route, Joe Schmoe wouldn't have had a decision to make... resin would be his only option. I'm a little bit bummed I won't be getting a sweet Regult toy but I understand the economics of Yamato's choice and if that's what they feel is prudent then oh well... maybe Bandai will give us Hi-Metal baddies (LONG SHOT).

Give this man a smoke!! Couldn't agree more, it's as simple as you explained it!!

A regular toy also means metal molds to cast the parts. Metal molds cost thousands of dollars, way beyond 50k's. Yamato is taking the safe road (avoiding a shelf warmer release). The molds are just one of the mountain of costs to produce a toy!!

If it was priced really low, how many units would Yamato sell? 10.000 at U$S80?, I doubt it.

[EXO]

I also disagree with the logic that Yamato doesn't have the capacity to build this as a toy (but Bandai does). I would agree that they are choosing to go the model route because there is essentially NO risk there and they appear to be under much tighter budgetary restraints these days. They are making a decision to go this route, Joe Schmoe wouldn't have had a decision to make... resin would be his only option. I'm a little bit bummed I won't be getting a sweet Regult toy but I understand the economics of Yamato's choice and if that's what they feel is prudent then oh well... maybe Bandai will give us Hi-Metal baddies (LONG SHOT).

You're disagreeing with yourself in the same post. You think they have the capacity but they appear under to be a budgetary constraint? That's what decides a company's capacity... And then maybe Bandai can give us a Hi Metal version? I think I'm gonna skip over your posts, they're about as informative as your reviews.

[jenius]

LOL Exo, please do! Choosing not to do something because it's not a guaranteed success doesn't mean you can't do it... it means you've chosen not to.

[ron5864]

Actually according to Google (at the time of this post)

39900 Japanese yen = 454.1298 US dollars

Add in shipping and handling you could pay as much a $500. Plus you still have glue, paint and put it together.

WTF??? Oh my Macross!!! I am also bleeding $$$ from my ears and nose, not to mention my wallet.

Someone at Yamato has to stop this madness.

[fifbeat]

I think Toynami wins this round (finally). We already have three different versions, with the fourth on the way.

I wonder why they wouldn't go ahead and make 1/60 versions... that would be a bold move, in my opinion (they would have Yamato 1/60 collectors' wallets)... double up that price and go for it.

I mean, I'm all about scale, but scale didn't seem to be a big deal in the 80s - a decade where Macross Toys were at a high point. Of course, this is targeted for the simple fact that Toynami doesn't have a 1/60 valk.

[Uxi]

I think the same basic logic (that there won't be enough volume sales) is why Toynami probably wouldn't do it. I hope they prove me wrong and take some of my money, though.

[EXO]

The Qraus and the Destroids were I guess disappointments which is a sign that if it's not a valk then its not worth doing.

[fifbeat]

The Qraus and the Destroids were I guess disappointments which is a sign that if it's not a valk then its not worth doing.

So why do they even go out of their way with all the designing, sculpting, etc to make something like the Regult; then minimize the production run, make it a web exclusive, and up the price? There is obviously a demand, which is why they're producing it to begin with, right?

Now, what if the 1/48 or 1/60 Valks were $400? I think they'd be on the same boat. But I think the valks worked because they were affordable. They wouldn't be good sellers if they were more expensive. Same goes with the Destroids... for such a static toy (compared to a transformable one), they were way to expensive. And then they wonder why they didn't sell good?

I just believe they found a way to grab a few "rich kids" by the balls, then sucker the rest of us die hard guys into buying an "exclusive" - less work (unit-wise?) and more money for them. No offense to anyone in particular btw. Trust me, I wish i was one of those "rich kids".

I guess my deal is, they got the molds, so go ahead, turn on the machine, and start pumping these motherf*ckers out. (at 1/2 of the price, that is)

Exo convinced me, I'm gonna start ignoring anymoon.com as well.

(jk)

I guess all this debating/complaining is USLESS is regards to why Yamato sometimes likes to bend us over; but it gives me a hard-on when someone on this forum actually agrees with me.

Edited July 28, 2010 by fifbeat

[eugimon]

hilarious, toynami hasn't sold out of their 25$ regult, what makes you think yamato would do any better with a 200$ version?

Look, molds for resin are not the same as molds for plastic. It doesn't matter to the mold maker if the end product transforms or not, they're going to charge yamato per mold and by the complexity of the *individual part* so as long as the regult comes out having a comparable number of individual pieces, which is more than likely, it will cost the same to manufacture a "simple" regult as it does to manufacture a "complex" valyrie.

The problem here is, only SDF: Macross fans give a rats ass about the regult and even out of them, only a tiny fraction ever buy toys of the stuff.

Factories don't run on fanboy tears people, they take cashy money.

[fifbeat]

hilarious, toynami hasn't sold out of their 25$ regult, what makes you think yamato would do any better with a 200$ version?

But they will. =D

Factories don't run on fanboy tears people, they take cashy money.

Exactly my point.

Thanks for the 'mold' lesson. Really, I had no idea.

[Radd]

I agree. A regult toy is likely to sell worse than a Q-rau, and the Q-rau's didn't exactly make a big splash, if I recall. I personally love mine and wish I had one in Max's colours to go with it, but if it didn't sell well then a regult would be a dicey proposition for Yamato.

It looks fantastic. If I had that kind of throw-away money and some decent modeling skills I'd pick one up to support the cause.

But I don't....on either count. I do hope they sell well, tho.

[EXO]

So why do they even go out of their way with all the designing, sculpting, etc to make something like the Regult; then minimize the production run, make it a web exclusive, and up the price? There is obviously a demand, which is why they're producing it to begin with, right?

The 1/2000 was originally designed as a toy so I can agree with the sentiment but this time the Regult was designed specifically to be a resin kit due to the overwhelming success of the Macross.

[Roy Focker]

I disagree. The Regult would sell more units then a Q-Rau (provided it wasn't going for $450).

The Q-Rau is a specialized Ace unit. Only reason to buy it other than being a fan of Milia is for you're a fan of Max and wants him to have a buddy to stand next to. If you only have a Mass Production VF-1A and VF-1D than a Q-Rau would look odd next to them. IF You'll buy a Max you'll buy a Milia.

The Regult is the Cobra Blue Shirt and Imperial Storm Trooper. They'll look good next to anybody in the display cabinet. They'll look good for army building. Think back to your earliest toy buying habits. Back when you were young and you want to start collecting a new Toy line. Did you buy two heroes and play having them fight nobody or did you buy a hero and a villain?

Where is this proof the a Regult toy would be a bad seller?

[jenius]

Maybe not all hope is lost. Maybe if the super premium model sells really well Yamato will make a budget version without the opening cockpit and all that jazz (think a bigger Toynami but with more points of articulation).

[Radd]

It's been my impression for years now that "enemy mecha" tend to sell extremely poorly in Japan, so the focus is always on the "good guy" mecha. Millia's Q-Rau is about as close to that as you get with a Zentradi/Meltrandi mech.

[VF5SS]

Where is this proof the a Regult toy would be a bad seller?

where's the proof it would be a good seller? Speculating on the various ways it can be displayed alongside other toys doesn't prove anything. Neither does comparing it to an American toy line that is built on a high volume of figures. In Japan it's all about space and getting hero characters. Think about how many Gundam toys there are and how few grunts outside of the original series got toys. The Regult is exactly like the Queadluun Rau in that it is more of a novelty item for the typical Japanese collector. Mecha without a character associated with them sell extremely poorly in Japan. Just look at the kind of stuff that gets discounted on online retailers. Look at the Revoltech Regult. It was always the last one to sell out.

In Japan, the more eccentric collectors who wanted enemy mecha usually just built resin kits or found cheap old figures. Yamato is just serving those guaranteed buyers for a weird figure.

[KiriK]

I actually totally forgot about the Q-rau that we got from yamato for a sec! I'd be happy with a regult that was the same quality and build as the Q-rau which was at the $80 price point when it came out. That has an opening cockpit, figure, minimal details, and still rocks next to a VF-1.

how can a Regult be more complicated than a Q-Rau figure? I know everyone's been explaining the mold process and development stuff that cost uber amounts of money. But all i'd really want is a simple regult mech with features and quality like the "cheap" Q-rau at a similar price point.

[Vifam7]

Earlier in this thread I wrote:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=33069&view=findpost&p=850675

So, yes, not all hope is lost for Yamato releasing a toy of the Regult.

[ae_productions]

Actually according to Google (at the time of this post)

39900 Japanese yen = 454.1298 US dollars

Add in shipping and handling you could pay as much a $500. Plus you still have glue, paint and put it together.

I think I just had a heart attack...no, no, I'm okay!

Ouch! I better win that powerball soon.

[Guest sh002]

screw it. all you need is one of those knock off companies that do oversized transformers to bootleg the toynami regult in a larger size. then you can finally have a regult in scale with your 1/60 valkryies for cheap. i could care less about super details and opening cockpit. i don't even transform any valkyries once they are in my display case. does making it a model kit throw out any company liability of bad qc like their toys?

Edited July 28, 2010 by sh002

[Roy Focker]

What about all those Zakus?

[VF5SS]

What about all those Zakus?

Zakus are from Gundam which is the most popular robot show in Japan.

Also all the Zakus had characters attached to them. Never forget Slender Denim Jeans.

[macrossnake]

I actually totally forgot about the Q-rau that we got from yamato for a sec! I'd be happy with a regult that was the same quality and build as the Q-rau which was at the $80 price point when it came out. That has an opening cockpit, figure, minimal details, and still rocks next to a VF-1.

how can a Regult be more complicated than a Q-Rau figure? I know everyone's been explaining the mold process and development stuff that cost uber amounts of money. But all i'd really want is a simple regult mech with features and quality like the "cheap" Q-rau at a similar price point.

Agree

[Guest sh002]

i agree too. it seems whatever yamato does no matter how ridiculous the decision, there are always people to back them up. remember when the v.1 valkyrie with removable legs that plug into the front of the nosecone was released? to be "anime accurate" was the reasoning from people.

Edited July 29, 2010 by sh002

[Vifam7]

Zakus are from Gundam which is the most popular robot show in Japan.

Also all the Zakus had characters attached to them. Never forget Slender Denim Jeans.

Macross was extremely popular too.

The difference is that Zakus look cool and Regults do not. Yes, some of us think Regults are cooler but the general view is that Regults look like fugly enemy mecha. And very few are going to say the Regult looks cooler than the hero mecha - the Valkyrie. Whereas in Gundam, there are quite a number of fans who think the Zaku is cooler than the RX-78 Gundam. That's how popular the Zaku is.

[fifbeat]

i agree too. it seems whatever yamato does no matter how ridiculous the decision, there are always people to back them up. remember when the v.1 valkyrie with removable legs that plug into the front of the nosecone was released? to be "anime accurate" was the reasoning from people.

That's right.

The people who agree with everything Yamato decides are kinda like those Metallica fans who think they STILL make good music.

I don't know about you guys, but my money doesn't grow on a tree. I don't care if Yamato is the 2nd coming of Lord Jesus Christ.

It's ironic - the less popular, the more it cost.

[eugimon]

i agree too. it seems whatever yamato does no matter how ridiculous the decision, there are always people to back them up. remember when the v.1 valkyrie with removable legs that plug into the front of the nosecone was released? to be "anime accurate" was the reasoning from people.

http://dragonjewelinc.com/home4.htm

go to the page, look at the prices they charge for doing some "economical" molds for some VERY simple parts.

Then, just for kicks, lets count up how many individual parts there are in the leg of a 1/48 vf-1, just the lower leg: at least 11. So, 11 x 3000$ and that's 33,000 just for the lower leg for the molds. And that's if Yamato were using "economical" molds, which they aren't, but whatever. So you can see that the a 1/48 vf-1's cost, just for the molds, is up there in the 6 figure range.

That's PER line, if yamato is running 6 lines, that's a couple hundred thousand dollars per line.

Now, I know what you're going to say, "You're so stupid, the 1/48 is soooo much more complicated than the regult!"

Maybe, but molds don't cost more or less just because the end product is a transforming jet or an egg with legs. It's just the number of parts and from what we've seen of the regult, it's very likely the actual number of individual pieces in a regult is similar to what makes up a valk. So the actual cost to manufacture the two are going to be similar.

So why not just make it cheaper like the q-rau. Okay, let's over look that the q-rau was PANNED by nearly everyone when it came out for being WAY too expensive in terms of cost versus value and that perceived value diminished even more after the destroids came out, even at 80$, who's going to buy it?

Macross is a tiny niche market in an ever dwindling niche anime market and even out of those fans, 30 something year old fans with enough disposable income to buy 100$ plastic toys is a tiny fraction.

There's a great difference between pointing out the flaws in the "logic" of the arguments being presented in this thread (hell, in every single yamato thread, ever) and being happy or even agreeing with their decisions.

But if you just want to keep on with your ad hominem attacks and tantrums, go right on ahead.

[Valkyrie addict]

Who would hace thought that a ball with 2 leggs and 3 points of articulations would make people cry and pay +400 for it...

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