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HG and Robotech Debates

azrael

By azrael
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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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Tommy's so damned talented I bailed when I found out what that dickhead did with one of my favorite Malcontent Uprisings characters.

Because Spengler is oh-so-talented, right? ;)

Having Johnathan Wolff on board the SDF-1 instead of the RDF New Alburquerque base absolutely killed the WildStorm comic franchise for me.

You've mentioned this before. Why is his location so important?

Edited by Gubaba
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Ginrai Bridge Bunny

Ginrai

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Of course, a toku series like the Super Sentai franchise is significantly more niche than a mecha anime like Macross

What are you talking about? Sentai has been perennially popular with generations of children, much more popular than Macross, which has had a few shows and OVAs over the years. Sentai has been on TV, unbroken, since the '70s and even Power Rangers has been on TV constantly for 15 years. By any measure, that is way more popular than anything Macross or Robotech ever.

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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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Taht only happened in Book 1, issue 5 of the Eternity comic series. That never happened in the novel The Devil's Hand.

Which is why I made no mention of the novels...

At present, the Robotech II: the Sentinels "movie" and the continuation comics published under Eternity/Malibu and Academy Comics are the only parts of the Sentinels story that are still at least pseudo-canon. Thanks to the painful unoriginality of Tommy Yune, who used the unfinished Robotech II: the Sentinels Book IV as a jumping off point for Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, the Waltrip bros. Sentinels comics are the only account of the whole Pioneer mission that can be considered even moderately reliable... as horrifying a prospect as that is for us to contemplate.

Stop talking about Robotech's Boba Fett already.

Wow... that's... actually... a really good analogy. Just like Boba Fett in Star Wars, the Robotech's expanded universe garbage tried to make a one-shot character with half a dozen lines into a deep and interesting character by throwing him into constant contact with the core cast and trying to make him relevant to something other than the one actual event he participated in in the show.

Admittedly, saying that the Robotech comics fart things up even worse than the series would be putting it mildly... the writers inevitably have to take a LOT of liberties with the existing story just to give themselves enough latitude to try and produce something that won't put the audience to sleep or turn out so campy the audience decides it's better off to use the book as lining for the bottom of a birdcage. Just look at Robotech: Invasion, where Tommy tried to expand on the backstory of Yellow Lance "Lancer" Belmont by tacking an arbitrary tragedy onto the existing story and setting him up as a one-man resistance against a nearby Invid hive and his insane former commander, and explain the evacuation of Mars Base prior to the first war by having it attacked by a rogue Zentradi ship captained by the world's most obvious copy of "Khyron".

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Einherjar SMS Squadron Leader

Einherjar

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I disagree, Boba Fett had more characterization from just the movies, before all the other material about him was shoehorned in. Wolfe's treatment was closer to the even more minor characters in the Star Wars universe, one scene wonders like Ponda Baba, the guy that got his arm cut off by Obi-Wan. His was more forced by people for content, not popularity. He really didn't stand out enough to justify it.

Edited by Einherjar
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taksraven SMS Squadron Leader

taksraven

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Or was Tommy Yune too afraid to tackle redesigning Yellow, just imagine the agonizing over whether to give him huge tits, or a six pack.

LOL!!!

Taksraven

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taksraven SMS Squadron Leader

taksraven

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Having Johnathan Wolff on board the SDF-1 instead of the RDF New Alburquerque base absolutely killed the WildStorm comic franchise for me.

Yeah, when I first heard about that I cried for days and couldn't sleep for a few weeks. DAMN YOU, TOMMY!!!!!

Taksraven

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Aladdin Sane ARMD Deck Swabber

Aladdin Sane

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What are you talking about? Sentai has been perennially popular with generations of children, much more popular than Macross, which has had a few shows and OVAs over the years. Sentai has been on TV, unbroken, since the '70s and even Power Rangers has been on TV constantly for 15 years. By any measure, that is way more popular than anything Macross or Robotech ever.

Sorry, allow me to clarify.

I'm entirely aware of the huge popularity of Super Sentai and the likes of Kamen Rider. What I meant to say is niche in places like America, Australia and the UK. The popularity of those types of shows in the west pretty much began and ended with the boom they experienced at the height of the popularity of Power Rangers. Asides from Power Rangers (the future of which is now uncertain) and last year's Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight (which, as I understand it, pretty much bombed), the toku genre is largely dead in those places.

I also wanted (but completely failed) to say that a straight dub/sub release of an anime in its original format is probably much more commercially viable in the west than a comparative release of a toku series, making the creation of something like Power Rangers more justifiable than something like Robotech (which only came about because of syndication rules).

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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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I disagree, Boba Fett had more characterization from just the movies, before all the other material about him was shoehorned in. Wolfe's treatment was closer to the even more minor characters in the Star Wars universe, one scene wonders like Ponda Baba, the guy that got his arm cut off by Obi-Wan. His was more forced by people for content, not popularity. He really didn't stand out enough to justify it.

Eh... are we talking about a pre-new trilogy Boba Fett here? I was.

In all fairness... while Jonathan Wolfe was definitely a one-episode minor character in Robotech's "original 85", the writers of Robotech II: the Sentinels intended to make him a major supporting character in the series. It turned out to be childishly easy to tie his Sentinels activities into his established backstory. Boba Fett, on the other hand, was never intended to serve as a main character or major supporting character. Jonathan Wolfe's activities are still generally wasted space, but he does serve a purpose in Sentinels as one of Minmei's new love interests, and the deus ex machina who saves Dana Sterling and the other surviving Masters Saga characters from certain death between the Masters Saga and New Generation, presumably because Tommy can't bear to kill off a main character who isn't from the Macross Saga.

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Einherjar SMS Squadron Leader

Einherjar

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Eh... are we talking about a pre-new trilogy Boba Fett here? I was.

I was too, I-III sucks. As a cold businessman and mercenary for profit, that sounds like enough characterization with a universe filled with a lot of aliens, the Force, and etc. That's subtle and mysterious at the same time. And he served his purpose. Unfortunately, everyone wanted to know so much about him that it ruined the character. Maybe he should have stayed dead.

But almost every new character they made for Robotech was pretty much a one episode wonder. They were given the spotlight, or just given an arbitrary interesting story, to make their on screen appearance more important. If HG could, they probably would have made every person who appeared on screen important enough for a story to generate content, especially these days when they really can't do anything new animation-wise.

Edited by Einherjar
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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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I was too, I-III sucks. As a cold businessman and mercenary for profit, that sounds like enough characterization with a universe filled with a lot of aliens, the Force, and etc. That's subtle and mysterious at the same time. And he served his purpose. Unfortunately, everyone wanted to know so much about him that it ruined the character. Maybe he should have stayed dead.

But almost every new character they made for Robotech was pretty much a one episode wonder. They were given the spotlight, or just given an arbitrary interesting story, to make their on screen appearance more important.

But at least Colonel Jonathan was central in the one episode he appeared in. Look at Dr. Lang, whose role in the original was merely to show up and say, "Uh, the fold system has disappeared" and "Oh, hey guys! Look what we made! Find three girls who can play Centipede, and we're in business!"

And from those humble beginnings, he got spun out into the GREATEST MIND OF HIS GENERATION, WHO CAN COMMUNE WITH THE PROTOCULTURE!!!

Y'know...I bet there's an interesting story to be told about the guy with the mohawk and wicked shades who owns the arcade...I wonder why he never showed up again...? :rolleyes:

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Keith Super Dimension Member

Keith

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I just wonder why Rainy Boy didn't get the "Wolf Treatment." Was Macek snoozing during that episode? That would have been a perfect opportunity to kill off a significant Macross character. They could have made him Max, and say the Invid killed Milia, and he went ona solo mission to rescue her, got captured and turned into a cyborg that now hunts other humans or something.

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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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I just wonder why Rainy Boy didn't get the "Wolf Treatment." Was Macek snoozing during that episode? That would have been a perfect opportunity to kill off a significant Macross character. They could have made him Max, and say the Invid killed Milia, and he went ona solo mission to rescue her, got captured and turned into a cyborg that now hunts other humans or something.

And that kunoichi girl at the end of Mospeada could've been, I dunno, Minmay's neice or something...

Edited by Gubaba
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Keith Super Dimension Member

Keith

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Nothing, he was a washed up old soldier who sold out to protect his own ass. He lead other soldiers to their death, and at the very end forcably has a streak of concience, then dies like the back stabbing bastard he was. A good episode in its rightful context, but robotech makes it infinately inane trying to glamorize the character.

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Robelwell202 Global's Pipe Holder

Robelwell202

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Oh, dear...

It seems that some people cannot let go of anything.

I got an e-mail from our good friend, Doug Bendo-ver, screaming about how I'm responsible for his sudden boost in ratings...

Now, seeing as I haven't been active in the RT fandom for a couple months, I gotta ask myself, 'Do I F***ING care?!?"

<Sigh> Some people obsess and spaz over anything...

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HappyPenguins Global's Pipe Holder

HappyPenguins

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Oh, dear...

It seems that some people cannot let go of anything.

I got an e-mail from our good friend, Doug Bendo-ver, screaming about how I'm responsible for his sudden boost in ratings...

Now, seeing as I haven't been active in the RT fandom for a couple months, I gotta ask myself, 'Do I F***ING care?!?"

<Sigh> Some people obsess and spaz over anything...

boost in ratings? lol okay..

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Einherjar SMS Squadron Leader

Einherjar

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Wait a minute here... he's still relevant in any of this?

Of course he thinks he has more lessoners, people can't anonymously pop into the live show. They actually have to reveal themselves somehow and, *gasp* download the show just to find out what the heck happened.

Edited by Einherjar
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Robelwell202 Global's Pipe Holder

Robelwell202

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He's checked my profile here once at least twice this week. Maybe he's planning some kind of major offensive...?

Could be... He checked mine out just last night...

Wait a minute here... he's still relevant in any of this?

Of course not... It's just strange, how some people think I'm such a major player in these things, when I've done everything I can to remove myself from the HG-drama.

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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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Wait a minute here... he's still relevant in any of this?

Well...there IS the whole "Mystery of the 900 Lessoners." That is, if he's got 900 devoted fans, who come no one ever sticks up for him anywhere (except Memo. Sometimes)?

Ah well, I can't log into Talkshoe anymore anyway, so if he DOES decide to continue tilting his lance at Macross windmills, I'll never know. Such a shame, isn't it? :p

Edited by Gubaba
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Einherjar SMS Squadron Leader

Einherjar

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Let's be honest then, it's not really a Robotech podcast. It's just a major topic of the show, but the spotlight is always on Doug.

It's not The Robotech Fan, it's the Dougbendo Rage Show #1. Then there's the Dougbendo Rage Show #2 and Microsoft Sam's Dramatic Readings from Robotech.

Edited by Einherjar
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Jasonc Galactic Diva

Jasonc

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As for lil dougie, who the frack cares? The more he talks, I'm sure you've all realized the more off base he is. Geez, everytime he opens his mouth about me, it validates my point about him. He's a wannabe shock-jock, who makes a bunch of outlandish claims, hoping one of them hits a nerve with anyone. I mean, c'mon, supposedly, I create forged documents for Seto to post up, as well as for JT. I'm also supposedly still trying to raise some sort of Robotech fan group against HG :blink: WTF??? His info is about as good as as a paranoid schizo thinking that the CIA is conducting experiments on him in his attic with aliens.

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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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Let's be honest then, it's not really a Robotech podcast. It's just a major topic of the show, but the spotlight is always on Doug.

It's not The Robotech Fan, it's the Dougbendo Rage Fairy Show #1. Then there's the Dougbendo Rage Fairy Show #2 and the Microsoft Sam's Dramatic Readings from Robotech.

Last I heard (which was a while ago, admittedly), he was talking more about Macross than Robotech anyway.

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Einherjar SMS Squadron Leader

Einherjar

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Dammit, they're no longer interchangeable. Humanity is flourishing and competent in Macross, and they forget very important lessons and struggle to survive in Robotech.

EDIT: Oh, ok, then their official time-line is pretty easy by comparison thanks to retcons. It's:

Robotech, the 85 episodes

Shadow Chronicles

Edited by Einherjar
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Jasonc Galactic Diva

Jasonc

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I wonder why it's so difficult for them to put that together? Usually there are dates and timeline that are mentioned in the introduction of the series. I mean seriously, how hard is it to figure out that 2059 comes after 2045? The problem is, is that those that criticize and make that call usually haven't even seen any of it, or very limited amount of Macross. Granted, DYRL and the design changes can be challenging, but really??? Is it really that challenging? Robotech's timeline isn't that complicated either, they have other issues like the story itself that is a mess.

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Gubaba Super Dimension Member

Gubaba

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I wonder why it's so difficult for them to put that together? Usually there are dates and timeline that are mentioned in the introduction of the series. I mean seriously, how hard is it to figure out that 2059 comes after 2045? The problem is, is that those that criticize and make that call usually haven't even seen any of it, or very limited amount of Macross. Granted, DYRL and the design changes can be challenging, but really??? Is it really that challenging? Robotech's timeline isn't that complicated either, they have other issues like the story itself that is a mess.

The one I liked was from the first link:

Sould be...

Macross Zero

Macross Super Dimensional Fortress (southern cross etc)

Macross Plus

Macross 7

Macross Frontier

Southern Cross...? <_<

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Jasonc Galactic Diva

Jasonc

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I didn't even want to comment on the stupidity, or just sheer ignorance of that. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that they are ignorant when it comes to the difference between Robotech and Macross.

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