VF5SS Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Interviewer: So we're planning a page for fans who don't know you (Itano) or the original Macross. Itano: Macross Ace (the magazine this is in) is a damned bishoujo character magazine isn't it? I call it "yutori"*, though. Yutori character moe magazine. I think Macross (the original) was popular because of its balance, 1/3 each of cute girls, robots, and songs. But now they say mecha won't sell, robots won't sell, so they turn it into a character-based anime AND they want the fujoshi. I hate the stench of that sort of thing and so actually don't want to be in any magazine articles related to that bullshit, but I said I'd cooperate if they let me badmouth poo and here I am. (*Yutori = To give room or allowance for something. Used in "yutori kyouiku" (yutori education) which refers to the heavily criticized stress-free education system in use in Japan since 2002. Ever since then grades have been dropping and it has been blamed on kids these days being extremely stupid, spoilt, unable to think for themselves, etc. "Yutori" is slang referring to someone who has received yutori kyouiku, but is nowadays just used as a derogatory term. Think English "retard".) Interviewer: I... see... (tears) Itano: I DID watch all of Macross F. It's not fair to badmouth something without seeing it (chuckle). So, like, there's one bit where a sniper in space mounts himself on an asteroid, right? But by doing so half his field of vision is gone. And asteroids aren't stationary so his aim is going to be really unstable. And then they use sniper rifles at point blank range? I notice this sort of stuff, you know. It's well-drawn for a TV show and they were trying, but the relationships were half-assed and the heart of the drama is way too messy. Last time we had Minmei become a human failure, but this time it was the main character (laugh). People who like this rubbish have a totally different sense from me, so I'd really be happier if they didn't know who I was at all (laugh). Then again this guy directed Blassreiter and Angel Cop so what does he know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polidread Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Ahahaha hehehe! *giggle aside from his mecha designs i now have a new reason to like him ! XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Is this for real? Like is this a real interview or did you just make it all up? Cause if it is true than Itanto is my inspiration for living and I want to give him a noble peace prize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Itano for president! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Didn't we already talk about this? http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=767378 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Well, I respectfully disagree with the guy. 1) The Astroid/Sniper "problem" - You know... when you're talking about sci-fi anime, the one thing you DON'T do is take the science stuff that seriously. Like he said "they tried" - and guess what? That's ALL they could do because ultimately there are way too many variables to do a perfect job when you're not only dealing with stuff that doesn't exist, but with animation of it at that, and so stylistic elements of art sometimes overshadow "realism." I'm not saying he's wrong about the astroid/sniper connundrum but... you know, in the real world, fighter jets (which are moving) are able to fire precicion missiles which "find" targets far away. Predator drones (which are also "moving") are also able to fire things or themselves be a weapon... So...I don't get it. What's the point? Hell- in real time combat, even frickin' snipers are "moving." I mean - come on - if you're a sniper during a fire fight, then chances are that you're moving. There's explosions going off shaking the ground, there's airplanes flying around. The tree you're in can move. And EVEN if you're far far away, perched on some cliff or rock, then chances are your target is moving too. So - while it's ok to bring this kind of stuff up as a "I wonder about this" point - it's just kind of lame to bring it up as if it were something that could sink Macross Frontier. I mean - come on. SDFM TV had Hikaru's FAN JET function perfectly well in OUT SPACE. Minmey and Hikaru should have been crushed or frozen to death. Then, as if that wasn't enough. Hikaru effectively wrapped a scarf around his neck to seal a flight helment, held his breath, and went out into space and DIDN'T freeze to death or die from other causes. He even caught a tuna. I don't know much about science - but my hunch is it's not as easy as that, and that it's a stretch. But do you see me condemning Macross as stupid for those scenes? No. next... 2. Moe instead of 1/3 cute girls, 1/3 robots/ 1/3 songs --- Um... I don't know what series he watched, but Macross Frontier had all three elements mixed together very well, thank you. The mecha action was great, the mecha designs were complex and interesting, and the music/songs were awesome. And every episode had all three elements present in good proportions. He can think otherwise... but I just don't see it. It's well-drawn for a TV show and they were trying, but the relationships were half-assed and the heart of the drama is way too messy. Last time we had Minmei become a human failure, but this time it was the main character (laugh). This part I totally don't understand. What is he trying to say here? The relationships were half-assed? How so? I thought they were very compelling and well thought out. And what does this mean that last time we had Minmei become a human failure but this time it was the main character? Huh? This time the main character became a human failure instead of Minmei/the singer? And how exactly did Minmei become a human failure? Minmei ends SDFM TV on a high note - namely she accepts her fate to be a singer - that's a mature, positive note. It might not be extatic - but it's certainly not "failure." If by "human failure" the guy means that her relationship to Hikaru falls through...well...does that make her a human failure? I think that's too harsh. I dunno. Guy can believe what he wants but I don't agree with him, and I don't care how many anime he's made or what his vast amazing experience is. I just don't agree with his opinions in this interview, with all due respect. Pete Rabid MF fan apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Snowblind- Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 ... I'm not saying he's wrong about the astroid/sniper connundrum but... you know, in the real world, fighter jets (which are moving) are able to fire precicion missiles which "find" targets far away. Predator drones (which are also "moving") are also able to fire things or themselves be a weapon... So...I don't get it. What's the point? That's because the weapons tend to be guided and able to course correct... Hell- in real time combat, even frickin' snipers are "moving." I mean - come on - if you're a sniper during a fire fight, then chances are that you're moving. There's explosions going off shaking the ground, there's airplanes flying around. The tree you're in can move. Not so much. Snipers wouldn't be involved in firefights at all unless something goes very, very wrong. They either stay well hidden, or well out of reach. They also choose their locations very, very carefully. And EVEN if you're far far away, perched on some cliff or rock, then chances are your target is moving too. ... Not if it can be avoided, no. ...All of that said, I'll agree that his perspective is probably off. A better analogy would probably be to a modern tank firing on the move (unguided projectile, movement of the target vehicle and firing vehicle). It won't be as accurate as firing from a static position, but with the use of modern fire control systems and optics it's entirely possible, and I'm sure that technology that far in the future, and in the Macross universe will be that much better than what we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanoplasm Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Minmei ends SDFM TV on a high note - namely she accepts her fate to be a singer - that's a mature, positive note. Mari Iijima should accept her fate to be minmay in the eyes of her fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 wah, someone made something popular I'm not a part of wah! Wah, only I'm allowed to depict ridiculous fictional firefights! Wah, only I'm allowed to depict ridiculous over the top love triangles where people act like dolts, wah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Mari Iijima should accept her fate to be minmay in the eyes of her fans. That would be poetic justice, but I kind of got the feeling she had already accepted it? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 wah, someone made something popular I'm not a part of wah! Wah, only I'm allowed to depict ridiculous fictional firefights! Wah, only I'm allowed to depict ridiculous over the top love triangles where people act like dolts, wah! Enh. You may disagree (I certainly do), but the man has earned his right to say what he wants about Frontier, and being in charge of mecha animation for SDFM, DYRL, Plus, and Zero gives his words a lot of weight. On the other hand, he's not a very good OVERALL director, so his talk about the drama should probably be taken with a grain of salt. For the record, I think "human failure" sounds a little more harsh that what he's really saying...I would say, "we had Minmay fall apart as a human being" (ç ´ç¶» failure, rupture; bankruptcy)...but even then, I'm not sure that exactly right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Enh. You may disagree (I certainly do), but the man has earned his right to say what he wants about Frontier, and being in charge of mecha animation for SDFM, DYRL, Plus, and Zero gives his words a lot of weight. On the other hand, he's not a very good OVERALL director, so his talk about the drama should probably be taken with a grain of salt. For the record, I think "human failure" sounds a little more harsh that what he's really saying...I would say, "we had Minmay fall apart as a human being" (ç ´ç¶» failure, rupture; bankruptcy)...but even then, I'm not sure that exactly right... I certainly enjoy his work, but considering how utterly fanciful and fantastic his dogfights are he's really the last person to be complaining about unrealistic tactics and depictions of warfare. I don't really get how alto is a "human failure" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I certainly enjoy his work, but considering how utterly fanciful and fantastic his dogfights are he's really the last person to be complaining about unrealistic tactics and depictions of warfare. True...Hikaru rescuing Minmay in the VF-1D is completely Itano, and completely nonsensical. It still looks great, however. I don't really get how alto is a "human failure" either. Yeah...when I picked up the magazine last July, I tried to read the Itano interview, but it was impossible for me to get through with some intensive work, so I just kind of left it alone. Ditto the Mari Iijima interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Yeah, obviously itano isn't afraid to bend the laws of physics and reality for dramatic effect.. I don't see why he reacts with such hostility when someone else does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Don't think Itano's criticism is aimed much at Macross but more on the direction of the industry. The popularity of stereotype romantic comedy characters and the pressure on producers to us them at the expense of all else in new shows is probably what pisses him off. He is not alone in that dislike, Miyazaki isn't particularly happy about the way charactes are depicted either. The sniper example on the other hand, does not make much sense. Macross has never been about realistic warfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Don't think Itano's criticism is aimed much at Macross but more on the direction of the industry. The popularity of stereotype romantic comedy characters and the pressure on producers to us them at the expense of all else in new shows is probably what pisses him off. He is not alone in that dislike, Miyazaki isn't particularly happy about the way charactes are depicted either. But he does point to Frontier specifically so he does have some beef with it. I believe some of us fans here too had complaints about the moe level and fan servicey-ness of Frontier. The sniper example on the other hand, does not make much sense. Macross has never been about realistic warfare. Or any other war-themed anime. In anycase, this interview does not bother me in the slightest. Personally I find it fascinating when someone has well known as Itano rips into something, even if I don't fully agree with the viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 But he does point to Frontier specifically so he does have some beef with it. I believe some of us fans here too had complaints about the moe level and fan servicey-ness of Frontier. Or any other war-themed anime. In anycase, this interview does not bother me in the slightest. Personally I find it fascinating when someone has well known as Itano rips into something, even if I don't fully agree with the viewpoint. That's fine... but a guy who worked on cowboy bebop and plastic little really has no legs to stand on criticizing anyone of fanservice and moe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) Itano: Macross Ace (the magazine this is in) is a damned bishoujo character magazine isn't it? I call it "yutori"*, though. Yutori character moe magazine. I think Macross (the original) was popular because of its balance, 1/3 each of cute girls, robots, and songs. But now they say mecha won't sell, robots won't sell, so they turn it into a character-based anime AND they want the fujoshi. I hate the stench of that sort of thing and so actually don't want to be in any magazine articles related to that bullshit, but I said I'd cooperate if they let me badmouth poo and here I am. Wow... just wow... I have found a whole new reason to like and respect Ichiro Itano. But he does point to Frontier specifically so he does have some beef with it. I believe some of us fans here too had complaints about the moe level and fan servicey-ness of Frontier. I liked Macross Frontier rather a lot, but I have to admit he makes some VERY good points about it... Wah, only I'm allowed to depict ridiculous over the top love triangles where people act like dolts, wah! Two things... 1.) You mean to tell us Macross Frontier's love triangle doesn't fit that description perfectly? 2.) In my experience, love tends to make even the most rational people act like complete idiots, so it's probably not that far from being reasonable. Edited October 17, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) 1.) You mean to tell us Macross Frontier's love triangle doesn't fit that description perfectly? 2.) In my experience, love tends to make even the most rational people act like complete idiots, so it's probably not that far from being reasonable. I'm mocking this " It's well-drawn for a TV show and they were trying, but the relationships were half-assed and the heart of the drama is way too messy. Last time we had Minmei become a human failure, but this time it was the main character (laugh). People who like this rubbish have a totally different sense from me, so I'd really be happier if they didn't know who I was at all (laugh)." And again... itano worked on this: so for him to complain that ranka is too moe strikes me as a little preposterous. Edited October 17, 2009 by eugimon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 And again... itano worked on this: so for him to complain that ranka is too moe strikes me as a little preposterous. Ah, good ol' "Plastic Nipple: The Adventures of Captain Titties." A classic for all the wrong reasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vepariga Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 maybe he is cold with it becuase someone else did it, and i ahve to agree that frontier did have me abit stand-offish with alto as the lead,i really dont like whinging characters as leads but i grew accustomed and enjoyed frontier, is it a macross like the orginal series? no way, but is it just as enjoyable? indeedy, in some ways i find fronter pays more of a homage to the other series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) so for him to complain that ranka is too moe strikes me as a little preposterous. But he wasn't the director or writer of Plastic Little. He was only the key animation guy. Edited October 18, 2009 by Vifam7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 But he wasn't the director or writer of Plastic Little. He was only the key animation guy. and? So he's more than happy to be known and paid by guys who do straight up softcore porn but wishes people who like Macross Frontier didn't even know him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) and? So he's more than happy to be known and paid by guys who do straight up softcore porn but wishes people who like Macross Frontier didn't even know him? He was kidding on that last statement. Besides, a key animator doesn't exactly get to choose what he/she works on or the content of the work. Perhaps it was just a job he had to do even though he didn't like the themes. Or perhaps it's a title/work like Plastic Little that formulated his viewpoint. Who knows. I just think he's fully entitled to his viewpoint. Edited October 18, 2009 by Vifam7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Talk about being sissies. One of the legends of Macross bad mouths Frontier and you guys get your panties in a bind. Doe his opinion matter to you guys that much? Is he telling the truth but you guys are afraid to admit it so you get defensive? Got love the guy. Macross Frontier does give us some mecha porn but a whole lot of it is this moe feeling stuff. What is the appeal of that? From my understanding Moe is something with cute characters you want to adore and protect. Seems like Macross Frontier got that. Saw a lot of it in that Macross Ace magazine. Since when did we go from loving the action & drama of Macross TV & Macross Plus to loving how cute and adorable Klan Klan, & Ranka is. You guys call yourselves men? Not totally hating Moe. I'm sure there is a place for Adorable Character Anime that's not Macross. These adorable characters aren't too bad but I'm confused by how they want us to adore them. They tend to be under dressed. Do they want us to say "Oh how cute!" or "I would love to make her the mother of children that I keep locked up in my backyard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Talk about being sissies. One of the legends of Macross bad mouths Frontier and you guys get your panties in a bind. Doe his opinion matter to you guys that much? Is he telling the truth but you guys are afraid to admit it so you get defensive? Got love the guy. Macross Frontier does give us some mecha porn but a whole lot of it is this moe feeling stuff. What is the appeal of that? From my understanding Moe is something with cute characters you want to adore and protect. Seems like Macross Frontier got that. Saw a lot of it in that Macross Ace magazine. Since when did we go from loving the action & drama of Macross TV & Macross Plus to loving how cute and adorable Klan Klan, & Ranka is. You guys call yourselves men? Not totally hating Moe. I'm sure there is a place for Adorable Character Anime that's not Macross. These adorable characters aren't too bad but I'm confused by how they want us to adore them. They tend to be under dressed. Do they want us to say "Oh how cute!" or "I would love to make her the mother of children that I keep locked up in my backyard." I'm not saying you're totally wrong (I'm not into the moe thing either, but I *do* love Frontier), but...isn't Minmay pretty moe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquilon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 So, like, there's one bit where a sniper in space mounts himself on an asteroid, right? But by doing so half his field of vision is gone. And asteroids aren't stationary so his aim is going to be really unstable. And then they use sniper rifles at point blank range? I notice this sort of stuff, you know. Maybe he has a point: the scenario above is about as realistic as US Navy Seals sniping Somali pirates from the fan deck of a US destroyer while the pirates are taking cover inside a lifeboat......while both vessels are moving independently of each other floating on the ocean! Good grief - what are those Frontier guys thinking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquilon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Talk about being sissies. One of the legends of Macross bad mouths Frontier and you guys get your panties in a bind. Doe his opinion matter to you guys that much? Is he telling the truth but you guys are afraid to admit it so you get defensive? Got love the guy. Macross Frontier does give us some mecha porn but a whole lot of it is this moe feeling stuff. What is the appeal of that? From my understanding Moe is something with cute characters you want to adore and protect. Seems like Macross Frontier got that. Saw a lot of it in that Macross Ace magazine. Since when did we go from loving the action & drama of Macross TV & Macross Plus to loving how cute and adorable Klan Klan, & Ranka is. You guys call yourselves men? Not totally hating Moe. I'm sure there is a place for Adorable Character Anime that's not Macross. These adorable characters aren't too bad but I'm confused by how they want us to adore them. They tend to be under dressed. Do they want us to say "Oh how cute!" or "I would love to make her the mother of children that I keep locked up in my backyard." I could give a rat's a** what he thinks - I like Frontier and Macross / DYRL just fine. To me, that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I believe some of us fans here too had complaints about the moe level and fan servicey-ness of Frontier. I certainly did, Frontier was downright embarrassing at times; I really hope they tone it down for the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He was kidding on that last statement. Besides, a key animator doesn't exactly get to choose what he/she works on or the content of the work. Perhaps it was just a job he had to do even though he didn't like the themes. Or perhaps it's a title/work like Plastic Little that formulated his viewpoint. Who knows. I just think he's fully entitled to his viewpoint. Yes, but taken as a whole; he worked on plastic little, he worked on cowboy bebop a show with a character designed to be nothing but fan service, he creates some of the most implausible missile fusilades and the evasion of said fusilades in animated history and then he's going to go on a little rant because of a singing high school girl with expressive ears and a robot sniping on an asteroid. the man is welcome to his opinions but they just strike me as being a little more of sour grapes than any genuine social outrage or bemoaning the direction of anime. I take Miyazaki's outrage over moe and fanservice far more seriously than a guy who seems more than happy to work on such projects himself and then turn around and bad mouth far less offensive examples of the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I'm not saying you're totally wrong (I'm not into the moe thing either, but I *do* love Frontier), but...isn't Minmay pretty moe? In a sense she very much is but the Original Macross didn't seem like it was "The Minmay Show". Cutesy characters is nothing new. There is always at least one of them. Now there is plenty more moe there is more moe focus on them. Never got the sense that a large part of fans were into Macross too delight in the Moe factor of Mao, Minmay, Mylene, Elma, Flower Girl & Yang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 In a sense she very much is but the Original Macross didn't seem like it was "The Minmay Show". Cutesy characters is nothing new. There is always at least one of them. Now there is plenty more moe there is more moe focus on them. Never got the sense that a large part of fans were into Macross too delight in the Moe factor of Mao, Minmay, Mylene, Elma, Flower Girl & Yang. True. But I don't think Frontier was "The Ranka and Klan Show," either. At least, for ME it wasn't. I might be in the minority in that one, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 True. But I don't think Frontier was "The Ranka and Klan Show," either. At least, for ME it wasn't. I might be in the minority in that one, though... but but, remember that shower scene where ranka was completely nude and she does a slow 360 while the camera lingered on her completely exposed breasts? That was pretty offensive, certainly the original Macross show would never have anything so blatantly sexual especially with an underage character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 but but, remember that shower scene where ranka was completely nude and she does a slow 360 while the camera lingered on her completely exposed breasts? That was pretty offensive, certainly the original Macross show would never have anything so blatantly sexual especially with an underage character. Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Uhh.. which episode was this in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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