Isamu Atreides 86 Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) The whole point was that with the war over, they "would" then give them the choice irregardless. All of them? Where did you get that? As far as I can remember... Architect: You play a dangerous game... Oracle: Choice always is... Architect: And how long so you expect this peace to last... Oracle: As long as it has to...(not sure about this part) Oracle: What about the ones that want out? Architect: They'll be freed as per the agreement. Oracle: I have you word on that? Architect: What do you think I am? Human? Not word for word, but as my memory serves... sounds about right. But... Oracle: As long as it has to... was " As long as it can", i think.....close enough, though, Exo. Edited November 10, 2003 by Isamu Atreides 86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat S Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 The whole point was that with the war over, they "would" then give them the choice irregardless. Remember how they said that once a mind is a certain age, it's very dangerous to try and free it? I doubt they're going to tell the entire world that they're living in a fantasy world and supplying machines with energy. Hopefully the Matrix online MORPG will explain what really is going to happen since it takes place after Revolutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 The whole point was that with the war over, they "would" then give them the choice irregardless. Remember how they said that once a mind is a certain age, it's very dangerous to try and free it? I doubt they're going to tell the entire world that they're living in a fantasy world and supplying machines with energy. Hopefully the Matrix online MORPG will explain what really is going to happen since it takes place after Revolutions. I would assume that they'd just do away with the Agents. That is, someone realizes that something isn't right can figure it out and get out. Or maybe people from Zion will still jack in and free minds. But I don't think that the machines will actively tell people that they're living in the Matrix. I'm still suprised that they conceded so much already. As far as I'm concerned, the machines are still holding all the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 One of my biggest complaints is that there seemed to be a lot of things refered to in the movie that had no connection to the first movie or Reloaded. I don't remember specifics, but I remember thinking this several times during Revolutions. Based on some comments I've read I gather that Revolutions refers to events in the Matrix console game! If this is true, that is very bad as I guess probably less than 1% of people watching the movie have played the game.Also, what happened to all of Zion's ships? In Reloaded, a lot of emphasis was placed on how critical they were to Zion's defence. Yet. in Revolutions no mention is made of them at all! I don't know how many ships there were supposed to be, but I guess between 30 to 100. Were all the ships disabled by the EMP blast set off by Bain/Smith which is breifly mentioned in Reloaded? if yes, keeping all the ships grouped together so that one EMP blast would disable them or so they could be wiped out by one mass attack seems very bad tactics. If the ships were wiped out due to Bain/Smith, then this scene should have been shown in more detail. From watching Reloaded, I got the impression that perhaps only 3-4 ships had been destroyed. And why the heck didn't the Zion Military seed all the approach routes to Zion with hundreds EMPs so that any Sentinal attack could have been stopped before it got close to Zion. OK, this may not have worked as the Sentinals were drilling newe tunnels, but couldn't Zion have found a way to insert an EMP into the tunnels being drilled by the Sentinels. Okay, the strategy and it's failure were mentioned in Reloaded, but briefly at the end, when the only surviving captain of that fight picked up the Nebeccanezar crew. He said a blast fired too soon and "it wasn't a battle, then it was a slaughter" and they only found Bane. Now, there really wasn't that many game references, and they were only at the beginning. The one with Nyobe meeting the Oracle was the only stated one. The impiled two was that her ship, the Logoss, was attacked. And I guess the only other possible one was the failed assault, but all that had in the game was not 20 sec., showing a ship full of bodies and Bale looking evil and stuff, then the one ship feeling the rumble of the EMP and the captain saying it was too soon. Nice to see, but nothing major. The approach was well-defended, the already made ones, that is. The machines were making their own path. For all we know, the other dock paths could have been made when the machines destroyed the city before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rogers Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 You forgot that the Trainman had a cameo in Enter the Matrix as well. Like the Frenchman, he's seen it all before and tells your character something about the events to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Oracle: I have you word on that?Architect: What do you think I am? Human? OK, so the machines are capable of love/anger/fear/jealousy/etcetera, but they are somehow incapable of lying? uh-huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Yeah... I guess not telling your wife about getting a hummer in the ladies room is not considered lying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Oracle: I have you word on that?Architect: What do you think I am? Human? OK, so the machines are capable of love/anger/fear/jealousy/etcetera, but they are somehow incapable of lying? uh-huh. What difference does it make if the machines are lying or telling the truth? If they wanted to, they could do anything they want. That's why I believe them... they don't have a reason to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Oracle: I have you word on that?Architect: What do you think I am? Human? OK, so the machines are capable of love/anger/fear/jealousy/etcetera, but they are somehow incapable of lying? uh-huh. I don't think it's that they're incapable of lying. I think it's more that the Architect considers himself above humanity, and thinks of lying as petty human behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 OK, so in Revolutions the Oracle keeps mentioning that something happened to her which caused her change in apperance. Now in real life, we all know it's because the actress playing the original Oracle passed away. But in the story, what was it that caused here to change? AFAIK, this is never clearly explained. IIRC, she mentioned that she had to give up something (?), but what and why? Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 The Oracle gave up her linkshell as part of the deal the two programs in the Trainstation made with the Merovingian to save their daughter, Sapi, from being deleted. She got another linkshell, obviously, but had apparently grown quite fond of her former one. Just why Sapi is so important as to deserve such a sacrifice, however, is never explained. Overall, it's a rather good way to explain what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 The Oracle gave up her linkshell as part of the deal the two programs in the Trainstation made with the Merovingian to save their daughter, Sapi, from being deleted.She got another linkshell, obviously, but had apparently grown quite fond of her former one. Just why Sapi is so important as to deserve such a sacrifice, however, is never explained. Overall, it's a rather good way to explain what happened. Ok that makes sense, but do they actually explain that in Revolutions, as I don't remember hearing that explanation during the movie? Or is it one of those things which is only explained in the game? Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rogers Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Both the game and the 3rd movie. In the game, one of the characters you play asked the Oracle why she looks different and she alluded to her being killed in order to save a program created by 2 other programs in love. That was that and no additional details were provided until the 3rd movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 It is mentioned in Revolutions, yes. A bit round-a-boutly, but it is. The Merovingian makes a comment about how she obviously got a new shell, and she mentions having to make difficult choices, not being able to recognize herself in the mirror yet, etc. The thing they DON'T explain that's from Enter The Matrix, however, is why the Logos is sitting at the bottom of that pipe surrounded by dead sentinels and, itself, dead in the water. They could've atleast had Niobe tell them why as part of a debriefing or something.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I think she set off an EMP while the Logos was still running. It seemed kinda obvious since there were Sentinels under the ship. It looks like they were done making repairs when the Hammer got to them and all they needed was some juice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERV Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 personally i say the last 2 movies were pointless in the end of matrix 1 all the questions where answered and there was a conclusion, an open conclusion but still a conclusion in the end of matrix 1 there was no 'to be continued' the sequels just made up new questions to answer and caused massive plot holes and added many pointless new characters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_vandermeer Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 the funny thing here is that most of us have probably seen evangelion, from the tv series to the movies, and that thing is just as confusing if not more so than revolutions. not to mention A LOT of other anime series that are open ended, or don't answer all of their questions. we are willing to forgive a lot when it's anime, but make it live action... not a dis of anime, just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F360° Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 the funny thing here is that most of us have probably seen evangelion, from the tv series to the movies, and that thing is just as confusing if not more so than revolutions. not to mention A LOT of other anime series that are open ended, or don't answer all of their questions.we are willing to forgive a lot when it's anime, but make it live action... not a dis of anime, just an observation. What do you mean, isn't anime real?? anyways,, anime is anime and live action is live action.. oh series is different from movies too. , you don't nomally compare them together. I find more plot holes in Matrix than EVA, at least you don't have to watch animatix and play the game to know the full story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERV Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 the funny thing here is that most of us have probably seen evangelion, from the tv series to the movies, and that thing is just as confusing if not more so than revolutions. not to mention A LOT of other anime series that are open ended, or don't answer all of their questions.we are willing to forgive a lot when it's anime, but make it live action... not a dis of anime, just an observation. i didnt find revolutions and reloaded to be confusing at all, just because something makes sense doesnt mean it doesnt suck, i think they were worth the movie tickets just for the action, but they shouldnt be associated with the first movie cuz they just rip open giant plot holes and lose sight of the original idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 (edited) As far as I'm concerned Evangelion left no questions unanswered. The Matrix on the other hand, is the way it is so that more money making sequels can be made in the future..... Er, no I mean Matrix is the way it is so as to leave the audience with a philisophical experience that invites introspection and intellectual discovery.... All jokes aside, although Revoloutions does make alot of "plot holes", as NERV likes to call them, I see the story as concluding itself to a satisfactory level. The Matrix's story is alot simpler than it tries to be...... Now, where is my copy of "I am a soldier too"...... Edited November 13, 2003 by myk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 She got another linkshell, obviously, but had apparently grown quite fond of her former one. Just why Sapi is so important as to deserve such a sacrifice, however, is never explained. Overall, it's a rather good way to explain what happened. Sati (I think that's her name) serves the same role in the movie as she does in the Matrix world. She has no purpose. She's *pointless*. I don't know if the brothers were trying to be creative and clever with this parallel or whatever. But pointless characters do not a good movie make. And all the new ones introduced in Revolutions were... pointless. And most of the ones introduced in Reloaded were, as well, in hindsight. There's a lot of philosophical mumbo jumbo in both movies, that lead you to believe that everything said actually *meant* something, and that you'd see these things played out and how they affect other parts of the plot. No dice. Not really. All the vague allusions, hidden meanings, veiled references, and psycho babble seem just to be a somewhat self-indulgent excercise, where the creators pat themselves on the back at how clever they are, then leave the audience wondering what they mean when they likely don't know themselves. If these references and ideas don't actually mesh into the plot and really make a *difference*, it's just that... a somewhat pretentious self-indulgent display. If the action that unfolds isn't built directly on these ideas, it's just a "look at me, I'm so clever" type of thing. In the end, Revolutions was a fine enough movie. But it didn't redeem Reloaded at all. In fact, it just completely ignored most of it and cheapened both Reloaded and the Trilogy as a whole. And it showed that the creators didn't have much more clue what all the things in revealed in Reloaded meant, than most of us who've thought about it at length did. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Ergo. Concordantly. Vis a vis. You know, I have absolutely no idea what I just said. - Larry, the Architect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Ergo. Concordantly. Vis a vis. You know, I have absolutely no idea what I just said. - Larry, the Architect Larry is so funny... "yeah, i called you a bitch... whatchoo gonna do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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