Technological comparison between Macross and other Sci-fi

[Mechinyun]

How about a VF-1S vs. Starscream

[sucker4meltrans]

VF-1S wins by a Macross missile Massacre.

[Master Dex]

How about a VF-1S vs. Starscream

Nah Starscream will fire a null ray, miss, try to overthrow Megatron, fail, complain, then repeat the cycle.

[RedWolf]

You know it makes me wonder if something the size of Colonial One could fit inside a NMCs hanger.

It can fit inside the Galactica.

Edited August 31, 2008 by RedWolf

[Master Dex]

You know it makes me wonder if something the size of Colonial One could fit inside a NMCs hanger.

It can fit inside the Galactica.

Based on size ratios, very likely. The NMC just needs a big enough door.

[Star Dragon]

Just a few musings I wanted to add and then a request.

A.) Guld had to "take out the limiter" a device assumed to restrict thought operation of the craft to a level NON-Lethal to the pilot. In order to ram himself into the GHOST, Guld had to override the machine safety so it would follow his order to accelerate and intercept (machine vs machine). Should he had survived the collision somehow, he no doubt would have died from internal injuries from the maneuver anyway. His thoughts were focused not on the pain, but only on hitting the target.

B.) NBSG FTL does not take more mass with it than an established radius, even in a gravity well. This may be a technology limitation and answers why the OLDER Galactica has to retract the pods and the Mercury class doesn't. better FTL, more power, better control or manipulation of the field, ect...

This is why a viper HAS to at least be IN THE POD or get left behind (Combat Landings). There is no Macross "carry along" effect, otherwise more civilian ships could have been saved by piggybacking FTL fields to cover STL ships or ships with broken FTl they left behind in the miniseries...

C.) In FS2 (I lost the PIC online), during FS1 the community created "Subspace Missiles". A spotter ship (usually a stealth fighter) paints the target and the Capital ships launch their ordinance into subspace. The missiles emerge in a 360 bubble around the ship exiting subspace and demolish the target (like something out of The Irresponsible Captain Tylor!) A Devastating non-Cannon weapon system. If I can find a pic I will post it for you!

D.) In TOS BSG they had viper that traveled a fraction of .C and the "Recon Viper" under computer control could actually go beyond like 1.1 1.2C causing the pilot to black out but get the manuever done. It was unarmed to accommodate the engines and AI computer system "C.O.R.A."

Also flight was atmospheric, mostly like Macross with occasion RL physics thrown in for flavor. Apparently the Galactica near the end of the series had a primitive pin-point barrier, (Experiment in Terra) but only in the forward arc. Also in (Hand of God the FINAL episode), It sported a BFG bow cannon not related to normal defensive fire you see from the laser turrets. Instead of the usual dual forms of viper fire you see a big beam, like in Macross or a FS2 BFRED.

-----

My request,

If anyone is into math I desperately need help in converting Macross weaponry (or ANY other franchise) into units I can use.

I need any listings of Offensive & Defensive weaponry, Missiles, and Shields converted from whatever power unit they use (ie Joules or whatnot) into Damage values for a single hit or one second of exposure.

This is the only way I can replicate "what if" battles. I use FS2 for the baseline and have hard numbers for damage based on the MEGATON (ie 640pts) so a GT weapon does 6400 Damage (ETC)

That means the Warsies who claim 200GT Turbos would do "1,200,000" damage per hit with main guns

Under this formula even shields can be figured out as all you need to do is find out how much "damage" the shield can absorb per second. Recharge speed and amounts can be tweaked later and are not taken into consideration for the damage amount. This determines the base number of "points" each ship or fighter has.

I know there is no great demand for realism in sci-fi, but this is a very earnest personal request I have wanted to embark on for quite a long time...

It's also a great way to have fun on a topic that isn't real, yet you can simulate outcomes fairly accurately!!!

Can we wage carnage against other Franchises???

In the voice of George Clooney to Arnold in that Batman movie, "Will you help me?"

Edited September 1, 2008 by Star Dragon

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I've always wanted to see what technoman (tekkaman) could do against the Vajra.

I hope there are specs on the red bug armor plating so I can have tekkaman use his beam attack on it. He has all those close combat weapons to deal with bugs. Macross Frontier has made me start watching that anime right now hehe.

Ever since they had Blade make a cameo appearance in macross II, I've wondered what he'd be like in macross frontier due to the whole monsters in space theme it has going. Could a single tekkaman solve all the nun spacy problem?

If they just spent all their money on a single powered suit they could forget the useless gunpod, the dagger, the pinpoint barrier, the full barrier, the sniper weapon.... just go with a spear and a super armor which becomes a weapon when you fly at high speed into the enemy to pierce holes into its body.

The red bug were fast, but tekkaman is small and harder to hit than a valk. I think a red bug might have problems fighting something so compact yet so powerful and hard to kill. (kinda like when astroboy is able to beat up the other super robots by flying inside them and killing them from the inside out by him using his small size to his advantage?)

Only thing is the bugs have the "fold at will" ability. Tekkaman had the 30 minute time limit (so each episode was in real time like watching "24"?) and that might mean you would have to have backup valkyries for when tekkaman couldn't fight anymore.

tekkaman = ancient protoculture elite monster hunter.

The "predator" to macross frontier's red bug (Xenomorph) from "aliens"?

Edited September 1, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sulendil Ang]

But in that anime, Blade always has issue with the military, so I don't think he will fight for NUNS, at least not willingly.

I agree with you about wanting to see Blade fight against those Vajra. Throw in some SMTC from Gunbuster, and those bugs from Starship Trooper, xenomorph from Aliens, and Zerg from Starcraft, and voila, we have a big bug feast.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The thing about tekkaman is how he already has a high speed flight mode. So maybe in about 500 years time, the Ex-Gear will evolve to become the super powered armor. They will scrap micromissiles, (waste of materials, remember how strict they are about recycling on these long voyages through space?) ban the use of guns (it risks destroying the insides of colony ships - remember that scene in macross 7 when that retired monster driver fires a shot and destroys a chunk of building?), and just say: "here's $5000 Blade. Now you go kill this nest and grab some dead aliens bodies so we can sell the crystals and use the money to build a fold bridge made out of bug crystal materials and have bugs which we can convert into cyborg versions of the bug that are under the control of an AI cmputer to fold all our precious supplies to the colony worlds quickly and dominate the galaxy."

Blade could have anything he wants. Doesn't have to fight for the military. Just only agree to kill bugs that are dangerous to civilians and to protect people when they are in danger. Eventually he can donate the money to charity or do something good like breed the bugs and tame them sort of like basara did to the space whale in macross ova. They could use the fold ability of the bugs like how man uses horses to get around.

You could have space cowboys riding bugs and folding from place to place by whipping them on the back to make them fold faster. And have supplies tied to the bugs' backs to deliver goods. Bugs just need to be tamed using the music and mechanically controlling their fold ability that's all. haha this is a joke post of course.

Edited September 1, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[RedWolf]

You know I wonder... Would a battlestar's weapons systems be affected by a anti-fcs like the Sound Jamming system in Macross VF-X2?

Seems to me UN Spacy fleet relies too much on targeting systems.

NUNS work on long range combat doctrine while the Colonial military relies on a close range fighting doctrine.

[Fade Rathnik]

You know I wonder... Would a battlestar's weapons systems be affected by a anti-fcs like the Sound Jamming system in Macross VF-X2?

Seems to me UN Spacy fleet relies too much on targeting systems.

NUNS work on long range combat doctrine while the Colonial military relies on a close range fighting doctrine.

Honestly have you ever played a space sim that even has remotely accurate physics(like I-war for instance)? If you had you'd know that your instances of ballistic contact with a target are short. You would need a targeting system, take the F-22 vrs anything situation. It can see you but you can't see it, which brings me to an other point. I really love how when they were fighting the Pixi's in the early part of the series and Luca picked them up by heat sig not by radar, seeing how everything has some form of stealth system.

Honestly the Colonials would be seven different shades of screwed facing valks, mainly considering the ECM and ECCM of the macross world. I really think even the Cylons would be screwed, as in the macross world there is already combat hacking(yang newman anyone). Lets face it if a pilot can shoot down a missile a Viper is larger but has a human at the helm, so only slightly tougher at best.

[ChronoReverse]

It's always amusing when someone thinks that having to get into scrapping range is an ADVANTAGE. Not that the Macross offerings lose any ground in that regard.

I also like how the stealth technology in Macross has been iterative (as it should be). Even in Zero, they had stealth but the tech was continued to be improved with subsequent series (poignant in Plus).

Likewise, the technology improvements are somewhat more logical than say, Star Trek. For instance, against the bugs that evolved harder carapaces (against bullets) and shell molting (against Reaction weapons), NUNS comes up with using bits of the bugs as part of the weapon and jamming the area to prevent information transmission.

Edited September 11, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[RedWolf]

I just watched the latest episode today of Battlestar Galactica.

We got an answer what happens when a craft jumps inside or just beside a ship.

Boomer's Raptor when it jumps beside the Galactica ripping its hull.

Which reminds me of Global's stunt being near the surface of South Ataria taking the island with the Macross.

But as we've seen in DYRL and Macross 7 ships or fighters can piggyback through fold.

The Raptor is a much smaller and doesn't have the power of a larger ship I can see why it rips the Galactica apart if it jumps inside or outside.

With the Demetrious, Vipers and Raptors can jump with it if they magnetically connected to the hull.

We also probably got an answer why the Galactica retracts its flightpods as opposed to the newer battlestars Valkyrie and the Pegasus.

The effects of jumps could rip it apart.

[miles316]

Short version: 1 VF-25 with Fast pack and reflex ordonance can pretty much take out the whole Viper wing and the BSG in one go;)

I don't know the Pegasus took several nukes when Apollo was temp comander even the Galactica survived one nuke hit in the movie.

Edited March 2, 2009 by miles316

[sucker4meltrans]

3000 years prior to BSG the 12 tribes invented the organic cylons and resurrection tech. They also had space travel technology, FTL or near speed of light we don't know. Cylons land Earth and with their small population and abandoned resurrection tech suffer through a technological set back. 2000 years prior to BSG humans leave kobol travel through space and found 12 colonies. They suffer a technological set back but must have retained space travel. From what i have seen from the Caprica previews the humans managed to figure out centurions and prototype organic cylons. This was 3000 years after they first thought it up on Kobol.

Macross most of humanity is wiped out. No technological set back is suffered through because the Macross contained most of South Ataria island which must have held a good portion of the best and brightest of earth due to the rebuilding of the Macross. The zentradi tech and zentradi that humans got after space war 1 also helped out.

So while the people of macross live with a high amount of technology in their day to day lives and military tech makes constant steady progress. In BSG the huge population reduction and scattering factioning of humanity caused tech progress to become incredibly slow. The Macross Quarter could dominate the entire BSG galaxy with even having to fire its main cannon.

[miles316]

You know I wonder... Would a battlestar's weapons systems be affected by a anti-fcs like the Sound Jamming system in Macross VF-X2?

Seems to me UN Spacy fleet relies too much on targeting systems.

NUNS work on long range combat doctrine while the Colonial military relies on a close range fighting doctrine.

On Galactica they don't have any long range energy weapon like the macross canon. They only have missiles and bullets no lasers, anti ballistic LASER'S, anti missile LASER'S nada. Definitely no super dimensional weapons of mass destruction like the macross cannon. The closes the new BSG had to lasers were laser designators on the vipers used for training. That is why the colonial ships have to get in relatively close to fight. in the first season of NBSG when the fleet needed Tilium and they tried to take over a Cylon mine several vipers got destroyed when their missile targeting systems were blinded by the Cylons it took Apollo using his missile as a dumb bomb to destroy the cylon base. which macross show did the VF-X2 appearer in?

[miles316]

3000 years prior to BSG the 12 tribes invented the organic cylons and resurrection tech. They also had space travel technology, FTL or near speed of light we don't know. Cylons land Earth and with their small population and abandoned resurrection tech suffer through a technological set back. 2000 years prior to BSG humans leave kobol travel through space and found 12 colonies. They suffer a technological set back but must have retained space travel. From what i have seen from the Caprica previews the humans managed to figure out centurions and prototype organic cylons. This was 3000 years after they first thought it up on Kobol.

The twelve colony's were a diverse collection of civilizations that developed differently from one another on their respective planets were as proto earth was just one planet, and they did not describe the technological development of proto earth except that it did not have FTL technology but the sub light technology is pretty impressive. most likely the ships that the ancestors arrived in at the colony's survived intact until one or more of the colony developed the technological knowhow to utilize it.

[RedWolf]

Macross VF-X2 is a playstaion game which in Macross canon.

The VB-6 Konig Monster made its first apperance there.

You play Aegis Focker (Likely a clone of the late Roy Focker) an ace pilot of the VF-X Ravens, a UN Spacy special taskforce which deals with Anti-UN terrorists.

At the end of the game it is revealed that Aegis's superior officer Wilbur Garland is committing a coup on Earth with the terrorist organization Vindirance and Critical Path Corporation. He doesn't agree that colonies should be independent. Humanity should be united in case of another invasion.

Hijacking Battle 13 which is equipped with the anti-FCS Sound Jamming System. Making targeting systems off. Taking also the Factory Satellite

Aegis' mission is to bring down the Sound Jamming system of Battle 13 which is protected by multiple AIF-9B Ghosts, a derivative of the X-9 Ghost. (Kinda reminds you Battle Galaxy doesn't it.) So that the UN Spacy fleet and the Black Rainbow group could destroy Battle 13.

sucker4meltrans brings an interesting point on the Colonials. But the way I see it Colonial's forebears doesn't have it good on colonization as in Macross. Twelve worlds formerly at war with each other and in response to the monster they created, Military Cylon Centurions rebelling against them, they united as one government to prevent extinction. Colonials and Cylons create an armistice treaty and is never heard from again until 40 years later with the Skinjobs genocide of the colonies.

Macross humans united painfully with the Unification War in preparation for first contact. 99% of humanity got wiped out in Space War 1. But out of the ashes hope. Human and Zentradi become one people and sets out to colonize the galaxy as a precaution. The NUNG becomes little more than a symbolic formality as colonies and colony fleets become increasingly independent. Returning to the original form of the UN before the crash of the ASS-1. A forum of states rather than a unified government.

[taksraven]

IMHO: I really see no point comparing fictional vehicles from diferent shows, anyday Kawamori could create a VF-35 with AT field and say: "it can even hold a nuclear blast, haha i created a valk that pwnz any gundam etc". Fortunately that's not gonna happen.

Exactly right. All SF, including most "hard" SF depends on some kind of "magic" to make things work and happen. These sort of arguments always degenerate into "My Yamato could take out your Death Star" sort of thing.

Taksraven

[Morpheus]

Comparing things between different shows is always difficult, because each show was set on its own Universe so we can not directly compared the technology advantage of each show.

A Death Star in Macross Universe will be destroyed in a few second with a valk performing M3 into its main reactor or a Macross Class with its Macross attack.

A Macross class ship in Star Wars Universe will go down in few second under ion and turbolaser bombardment of a Star Destroyer class ship, also some spacecraft may find itself on a collision course toward the Macross exposed bridge.

However Chuck Norris will own all Universe.

[MDP310]

Comparing things between different shows is always difficult, because each show was set on its own Universe so we can not directly compared the technology advantage of each show.

A Death Star in Macross Universe will be destroyed in a few second with a valk performing M3 into its main reactor or a Macross Class with its Macross attack.

A Macross class ship in Star Wars Universe will go down in few second under ion and turbolaser bombardment of a Star Destroyer class ship, also some spacecraft may find itself on a collision course toward the Macross exposed bridge.

However Chuck Norris will own all Universe.

Eh, I dunno about the Death Star thing. Boddole Zer's flagship looks like it's mostly hollow open space, but the DS is full of stuff. It would probably take a lot longer for a Macross to punch its way through. Not to mention that one really, really big gun the DS has.

Although a Macross's main gun looks like it would eat anything in SW for breakfast, the regular size guns might just bounce off of a Star Destroyer. SW guns are rediculously overpowered.

[ChronoReverse]

The fact that the Macross itself was just a regular gunship has pretty bad implications for an opposing Imperial fleet (especially if we stick to movie canon). Any Zentraedi expeditionary fleet would lay waste with both sheer numbers and raw firepower. Even the New Macross fleets have a great deal of long-range firepower as seen with the beam spam from the whole armada of capital ships firing all at once from long range.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The fact that the Macross itself was just a regular gunship has pretty bad implications for an opposing Imperial fleet (especially if we stick to movie canon). Any Zentraedi expeditionary fleet would lay waste with both sheer numbers and raw firepower. Even the New Macross fleets have a great deal of long-range firepower as seen with the beam spam from the whole armada of capital ships firing all at once from long range.

So, who's got more CF? The UNSpacy or the Imperial Navy?

You're right, though. The guns on those are stronger than a star destroyer's heavy turbolaser batteries, to begin with. They're much longer range, as well.

Not to mention, the huge gravitational disturbance would prevent anything with a Hyperdrive from jumping.

However, 1 Star Destroyer and 1 NMC will find the SD as the victor. Reason being it's bristling with heavy guns that fire in very rapid succession, versus the one gun on an NMC that fires once an hour, takes awhile to charge, and has to have the front of the ship aiming at it, unless it goes through a minutes-long process that allows more aiming freedom... PPB will overload, and armor will disintegrate.

SD beats NMC

Zent. Fleet beats Imp. Fleet.

[MDP310]

SD beats NMC

Zent. Fleet beats Imp. Fleet.

Exactly. Especially if it's DYRL Zen ships with the huge-ass main cannon. They can just oneshot the SD's, even though the SD's turbolasers are stronger than the Zentradi beam guns. I think.

Actually, who DOES have more cannon fodder? The Galactic Empire has tens of thousands of Star Destroyers, countless smaller ships, and probably a couple hundred Executors. And all of them are packed with easily-splodable fighters.

The Zentradi have millions of ships that all seem...kinda weak. Fighters in both universes shoot special nukes (Reaction missiles or proton torpedoes) and the Zentradi seem to have a much harder time dealing with them than SW ships do.

[eugimon]

Well, without knowing how powerful the weapons are in the Macross universe, it's hard to make a real comparison, no? Anyways, there are thousands (1000-2000) zent fleets that are 5 million ships strong. Add PPB to those ships and their sheer number would crush the Imp fleet even if an individual SD is stronger than an individual zent ship. Add to that the fact that each fleet is commanded by that huge ass Command ship with it's grand cannon type main gun... even if the imps never lost the proto DS, the DS and DS II, they would still be out maneuvered and dismantled quite easily. And remember, those main guns can fire in arcs and their continuous output is over a duration of time. So one shot from a main gun could wipe out several capital ships and hundreds of smaller ships at one time.

As for proton torpedoes versus reaction missiles, reaction war heads have a much larger destructive range than a proton torpedo which is mostly used for anti-ship uses not anti capital ship (when they're used in that fashion, dozens upon dozens of torpedoes are used) ... reaction war heads are for anti-fleet engagements.

Edited March 8, 2009 by eugimon

[MDP310]

Well, without knowing how powerful the weapons are in the Macross universe, it's hard to make a real comparison, no? Anyways, there are thousands (1000-2000) zent fleets that are 5 million ships strong. Add PPB to those ships and their sheer number would crush the Imp fleet even if an individual SD is stronger than an individual zent ship. Add to that the fact that each fleet is commanded by that huge ass Command ship with it's grand cannon type main gun... even if the imps never lost the proto DS, the DS and DS II, they would still be out maneuvered and dismantled quite easily. And remember, those main guns can fire in arcs and their continuous output is over a duration of time. So one shot from a main gun could wipe out several capital ships and hundreds of smaller ships at one time.

As for proton torpedoes versus reaction missiles, reaction war heads have a much larger destructive range than a proton torpedo which is mostly used for anti-ship uses not anti capital ship (when they're used in that fashion, dozens upon dozens of torpedoes are used) ... reaction war heads are for anti-fleet engagements.

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm just not used to Star Wars LOSING a vs. argument.

Makes it even more impressive that one human ship and one Zentradi fleet fought off like 5 million ships and Boddole Zer's flagship thing. Which was either as big as Japan, or had a hugenormous gun. Or both? For some reason the DYRL version looks smaller.

[eugimon]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm just not used to Star Wars LOSING a vs. argument.

Makes it even more impressive that one human ship and one Zentradi fleet fought off like 5 million ships and Boddole Zer's flagship thing. Which was either as big as Japan, or had a hugenormous gun. Or both? For some reason the DYRL version looks smaller.

The fleet command ship in SDFM is the size of the entirety of the Japanese islands (diameter anyways)... the DYRL version has the big ass gun though it's only 600km across compared to 1400km for the SDFM version.

However the SDFM version still dwarfs the two death stars though arguably if either of the death stars got a clear shot at the Bodolza class ship it would be game over... but I guess it would come down to the range of each ship's main weapon and their specific maneuverability. Still, 3 death stars versus 1000 Bodolza class ships, again, maybe the SW uber capital ship is more powerful but the zent fleet has sheer numbers on its side.

[MDP310]

Yeah, Zentradi would by FAR have numbers on their side.

Although the official number for the DS2 says it's 160km wide or something like that, it's wrong. People have analyzed the actual film and it's more like 900km, or the size of Texas. And its gun can shoot every couple minutes. So basically DS2 vs. Zentradi fleet would be a grind with the DS popping ships one by one, and Zentradi ships gradually taking bites out of the DS.

Unless the flagship is there. Then it would rip big-ass chunks out of the DS, as long as it doesn't get shot first. The DS's gun must have a range of several planetary diameters. Something like standing on Mars and shooting at the Earth. It looks like it was pretty damn far from Alderaan, and would have to be able to survive after the target planet turns into a giant, violent asteroid field.

Boddole's gun probably has a ridiculously long range too, we just don't see how long it was because the Meltrans showed up and he was all TIME TO DIE LAPLAMIZ!

[ChronoReverse]

Macross universe also has the advantage of being able to use tactical folds since folds are definitely not disabled by gravity wells like Hyperdrives in Star Wars.

Speaking of which, I wonder how the Grand Cannons stack up against the Superlaser. I think the GC has a much wider field of fire while the SL has more concentrated firepower but it would be fun to see a Death Star and a planet double KO lol.

However, 1 Star Destroyer and 1 NMC will find the SD as the victor. Reason being it's bristling with heavy guns that fire in very rapid succession, versus the one gun on an NMC that fires once an hour, takes awhile to charge, and has to have the front of the ship aiming at it, unless it goes through a minutes-long process that allows more aiming freedom... PPB will overload, and armor will disintegrate.

Might be debatable if we use the Imperial Army pre-Endor. From the dialog it's clear that their standard tactics was to shoot from stand off range and the NMC simply has more of that than a Star Destroyer making long range engagement a losing process for the ISD.

Now if we start off at close range, the ISD definitely can bring to bear more firepower but then the NMC can do a Macross Attack. Even an ISD won't be able to destroy a NMC quick enough to stop that. If you watch episode 19 of The Clone Wars (3DCG TV series), you can see an example of what I mean (at least 7 Separatist cruisers were pounding a single Republic cruiser and was still unable to stop it from a kamikaze attack).

Medium range would be the only mode the ISD would have a clear advantage.

Edited March 8, 2009 by ChronoReverse

[eugimon]

Well, I dunno if it's Mars orbit far, but certainly from the size of alderaan it's far past lunar orbit. But given that the main gun on the SDF-1 fired through an island and atmosphere and still hit and completely vaporized some ships 280,000km away (about 2/3rd's the way to the moon at its closest point) I would have to imagine that the main guns on the larger capital ships (the SDF-1 is a gunboat... like a frigate in SW) and the main gun on the fleet command ships would have ranges comparable to the death star.

And the death star can only shoot in front of itself, I'm sure a couple hundred gunboats firing off their main guns behind the death star would quickly take one out of fight.

The frigate thing brings up another point. In the SW universe the larger capital ships are devastating to be sure, but the smaller support frigates are pretty useless. Even the older cap ships like dreadnoughts don't compare at all the an Imp SD. While even the smaller capital ships in a zent fleet sport main guns than can take out the largest capital ships with one shot.

Edited March 8, 2009 by eugimon

[MDP310]

Well, I dunno if it's Mars orbit far, but certainly from the size of alderaan it's far past lunar orbit. But given that the main gun on the SDF-1 fired through an island and atmosphere and still hit and completely vaporized some ships 280,000km away (about 2/3rd's the way to the moon at its closest point) I would have to imagine that the main guns on the larger capital ships (the SDF-1 is a gunboat... like a frigate in SW) and the main gun on the fleet command ships would have ranges comparable to the death star.

And the death star can only shoot in front of itself, I'm sure a couple hundred gunboats firing off their main guns behind the death star would quickly take one out of fight.

Yeah. A bunch of Macross's or Nupetiet-Vergnitzs's shooting the DS in the butt would wreck it. The thing is huge and powerful, but it moves reeeally slow.

Anyway, how would the fighters stack up? As awesome as VF's are, I think Star Wars has a pretty big edge here. Fighters regularly shoot lasers with kilotons of power, along with nukes at other fighters and can accellerate at thousands of G. They also do have big-ass reaction warhead type missiles, we just don't see them used in the movies.

[ChronoReverse]

The weapons on the fighters of Star Wars basically deal damage equal to the plot. For instance, sometimes the shots are so powerful that it must be in the kiloton range, but other times the firepower is barely equal to a modern day mortar.

[Killer Robot]

I'm normally prone to take Star Wars numbers with a grain of salt since so many of them originally trace back to third party RPG sourcebooks rather than anything to do with the films, but I believe it goes right back to the original movie novelization that the Imperial Star Destroyer was armed such that one vessel could wipe a lightly defended planet to bare rock in fairly short order. This meant that just one would be sent to pacify a planet that showed risk of rebellion. A fleet of them would only be needed for a well-shielded planet or one that could mount a comparable fleet(recall how the Rebel fleet couldn't hope to break through without killing the shields in RotJ.) Further, it had heavy shielding and armoring, and could presumably stand up against vessels of its own class in extended fights. Going into the more detailed materials, there were some 25,000 just of the Imperial class made, not to mention those larger or smaller. Certainly fewer than the millions or more in a Zentradi fleet, though not exactly a small number either.

By contrast, the Zentradi surely didn't need all 4+ million ships to swiftly destroy the Earth's surface, but I don't get the impression that even their Quiltra-Quelamitz gunboats specifically designed for planetary bombardment are meant to do so in small numbers. As a corollary, it seems unlikely that a Star Wars capital ship is likely to find any weapons on a Macross universe ship to be especially shocking or exotic. Further, they're, while not exactly fragile, still unshielded and thus not hard to destroy with similar weaponry. Do remember that a Valkyrie with reaction missiles can be effective against Zentradi capital ships.

The thing to remember is that Zentradi fleets were huge, but they were automatically produced, fundamentally disposable weapons: similar in philosophy to the TIE fighters in Star Wars rather than the capital ships, though obviously far different in ultimate scale. Further, especially by the time of Macross they were being turned out by aging, decrepit factories and many of their more powerful weapons(reaction missiles, Glaugs, who knows what else) have become rare or simply unavailable. Further, they were bound to a rigid tactical manual, far beyond even what a heavily regulated human military would be: recall that Exedol's strategy against the Bodol Main fleet hinged on the idea that task forces would be forced to retreat the entire battle at the destruction of an individual flagship, because most vessels simply lacked any command ability at all. Now, a fleet of human-led Zentradi, or those in the old days under Protoculture command, that might be different. Since really, the Star Wars universe is in its way very much a Protoculture-era situation of an active, old, galactic civilization with the infrastructure and actively maintained and developed technological base that represents.

Addendum: To the inevitable question of "if Star Destroyers can level planets, why make a Death Star?": the Death Star was a symbol of terror not for that capability but for its ability to literally blast the planet into an asteroid belt in a single shot while (they thought) fending off any conceivable fleet that could be sent against it, and presumably could easily smash through planet-scale shields.

[MDP310]

The new Cross Section books give numbers for the firepower on SW ships. Really, really big numbers. Like megatons to gigatons per turbolaser shot.

Addendum: To the inevitable question of "if Star Destroyers can level planets, why make a Death Star?": the Death Star was a symbol of terror not for that capability but for its ability to literally blast the planet into an asteroid belt in a single shot while (they thought) fending off any conceivable fleet that could be sent against it, and presumably could easily smash through planet-scale shields.

Alderaan did have a shield. And it didn't do crap against the DS. You could see the green beam hit the planet, then sort of spread across the surface for a few frames before going asplode.

[eugimon]

Yeah. A bunch of Macross's or Nupetiet-Vergnitzs's shooting the DS in the butt would wreck it. The thing is huge and powerful, but it moves reeeally slow.

Anyway, how would the fighters stack up? As awesome as VF's are, I think Star Wars has a pretty big edge here. Fighters regularly shoot lasers with kilotons of power, along with nukes at other fighters and can accellerate at thousands of G. They also do have big-ass reaction warhead type missiles, we just don't see them used in the movies.

Huh, individually? Any post TIE snub fighter would make short work of any zent or UN SPACY snub fighter, imo.

Fleet to fleet? Well, the macross carried 120 ghosts, 300 FAST pack equiped valks, some 500 destroids, the NMC fields 450 valks and who knows what the larger zent capital ships could carry. Versus, 72 TIEs in an Imp SD.

And I think the engagement styles of the two universes works in favor of the Macross U. Macross is modeled after conventional modern tactics, long range engagements first, dog fighting to clean up. SW has snub fighters relying mostly on lasers and mixing it up in dog fights. The valks are more likely to unleash their full salvo of missiles at range which can be around 50+ missiles per unit x 450 valks at multiple targets and then close in to mop up the survivors. Even if the individual ordinance on a valk doesn't compare to a proton torpedo... the dozens upon dozens of friends following would surely make up the difference.

Valks are also FAR more effective at anti missile countermeasures compared to the snub fighters in the SW universe. And given how large and slow and bright SW missiles are, I think valks would easily shoot them down before they had a chance to hit.