Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread II *Read 1st Post*

[daeudi]

A sword would reach easier, would probably do more damage and generally would be more effective. Not all units would need them, just units that engage at closer quarters (in other words anything other than snipe and radar units). Plus, it would look cool. As long as its not just a lightsaber rip off.

It COULD happen!!!

As posted elsewhere, from SK's own hand...

[taksraven]

Melee combat weaponry is not a bad idea, specially if u are dealing with creatures like the Vajra. They remind me a lot of the enemies from Genesis Climber Mospeada. They're like Inibit on crack... The human mecha from that show had melee weapons... Like the VR-041H Brough Superior.

I had forgotten that they had "sword" weapons like that. Did they ever use them in the series or was it just restricted to artwork?

Cool pic too.

I liked a lot of the Mospeada designs, especially the inbit units, which were all different but there was a logical progression between them. You could see the evolution of the designs, which can be rare.

taksraven

[taksraven]

OK, I wanna discuss what we know (or think we know) about the VF-27's capabilities and features:-

[*]NUNS & Galaxy markings shown on the craft in eps 7 & 9.

Anything I've missed?

Other theories welcome.

Graham

I think you've pretty much summed it all up.

Its the markings that baffle me. If it is a "top secret" fighter (which would be a fair assumption at this stage at least) then why the hell does it have Galaxy and NUNS logo's on it.

I think that they have missed a good opportunity to here to have an "evil black" vehicle rather than purple. That would look a lot cooler. (I know that its probably an animation issue, with most of the action so far taking place in space it probably would be difficult to animate a totally black ship)

Taksraven

[taksraven]

I do too. those shots seemed to bounce off though and didn't do much damage. Same goes the other way around. That beam cannon shot(the haymaker of that fight) did not hit. Clearly an asteroid got in the way just before it was about to hit him.

In episode 7, when the Koenig Monster was in jet form and moving over to the cruiser, did anybody else notice that shots seemed to be deflecting off it. I thought I could see that happening but I am not sure.

Taksraven

[Morpheus]

I think that they have missed a good opportunity to here to have an "evil black" vehicle rather than purple. That would look a lot cooler. (I know that its probably an animation issue, with most of the action so far taking place in space it probably would be difficult to animate a totally black ship)

Taksraven

Not really (point to Black Selena from Nadesico) . VF with melee weapon is good, we got gunpod bayonet, pinpoint barrier punch, and now a progressive knife...I mean PPB knife. As I recall, one of the destroid even have a baton for close combat.

I bet the Konig monster will rock in close combat since it lack of CIWS.

[taksraven]

Unless it was allowed to...

I think thats more likely, that they have their own base or **maybe** even a carrier ship docked to the Frontier, same style as the Quarter. They need some sort of resources since there was more than one VF-27 and the purple one was badly damaged by Alto.

Taksraven

[aerocombatpilot]

I have a question. What makes the VF-25 capable of destroying the enemy? I mean, is it the type of missiles it uses or the

type of rounds it fires? I'm alittle confused at how the VF-171's can never seem to shoot down the enemy, and yet the VF-25 manages to do so.

[beertax]

I have a question. What makes the VF-25 capable of destroying the enemy? I mean, is it the type of missiles it uses or the

type of rounds it fires? I'm alittle confused at how the VF-171's can never seem to shoot down the enemy, and yet the VF-25 manages to do so.

I think trying to force logic into anime is oftentimes a lost cause. I think the writers wanted to show off the skill of the SMS by deliberately making the VF-171 pilots look totally incompetent. They probably didn't lose any sleep over the how.

[taksraven]

I have a question. What makes the VF-25 capable of destroying the enemy? I mean, is it the type of missiles it uses or the

type of rounds it fires? I'm alittle confused at how the VF-171's can never seem to shoot down the enemy, and yet the VF-25 manages to do so.

Thats easy. There is a good technical explanation for that. Here is the formula.

VF-171 = CANNON FODDER

VF-25 = HERO

Understand the formula, its that simple. :lol:

[ChronoReverse]

With that said, the VF-25 was almost ineffective against the Reds in the early going. They were able to destroy the Whites though. However, the VF-171's couldn't even hit the Whites (when the missiles failed) so we never get to see if their gunpods could do the trick.

Later on, SMS was specifically loading anti-Varja ordinance.

[junior]

Gunpod = Rounds kill yellow Vajra, bounce off of Red Vajra

Missiles = Blow Vajra up if they hit

Clan Clan's Shoulder Cannon = Cracks the armor on a Red Vajra

Mikhails Sniper Rifle = Blows chunks off of the Red Vajra

Knife = Penetrates Red Vajra armor

Even Alto can't do anything against the Red Vajra with his gunpod. Granted, the Red Vajra actually seems to try to avoid his fire, whereas it flies directly into oncoming fire from VF-171s. So it's possible that the VF-25 has a larger caliber weapon that actually slightly inconveniences the Red Vajra. But other than that, the gunpods have been completely useless against the Red Vajra since the start of the series.

So... kill yellow Vajra with gunpods, use missiles against Red Vajra and hope that they don't get jammed (like in the first episode). And set them up to be sniped by Mikhail.

[taksraven]

With that said, the VF-25 was almost ineffective against the Reds in the early going. They were able to destroy the Whites though. However, the VF-171's couldn't even hit the Whites (when the missiles failed) so we never get to see if their gunpods could do the trick.

Later on, SMS was specifically loading anti-Varja ordinance.

WHITES?????? I hope you mean Yellows otherwise you know something that the rest of us don't!!!

Taksraven

[Mellow Yellow]

They should just make a gun that shoots knives

[grss1982]

I noticed in one of the screenshots that the VF-27 seems to have two guns in the head unit just under each "horn".

You mean like the attached pic below:

[mike_s_6]

They should just make a gun that shoots knives

I'm trying to make an excuse why a gun can't shoot the knives but I can't. Maybe, it is made of some really expensive material that makes it so strong and they can't afford to fire them

[d3v]

I'm trying to make an excuse why a gun can't shoot the knives but I can't. Maybe, it is made of some really expensive material that makes it so strong and they can't afford to fire them

Maybe the knife is some sort of heat or vibro blade?

[ChronoReverse]

WHITES?????? I hope you mean Yellows otherwise you know something that the rest of us don't!!!

Well, they may be considered yellow but they look more white to me =P

Gunpod = Rounds kill yellow Vajra, bounce off of Red Vajra

Missiles = Blow Vajra up if they hit

Clan Clan's Shoulder Cannon = Cracks the armor on a Red Vajra

Mikhails Sniper Rifle = Blows chunks off of the Red Vajra

Knife = Penetrates Red Vajra armor

I dunno.

The missile blasts in the first episode only made the Red shudder. Even when the bajillion missiles were unloaded into it, it didn't even get scratched. I'd say that missiles are only effect against the smaller ones unless they're reaction type.

As for the knife, it penetrates the gaps between the Red's armor but cutting the normal armor would probably take too long most of the time in melee combat.

[d3v]

To add to Graham's list: VF-27 seems to have new OTEC stealth technology since it freely launches and docks with the Frontier without anyone's knowledge....unless they were hackd.

Either that... or Brera simply remembers to turn his active stealth on!

Really, I find it weird that other valks (the VF-19 and YF-21/VF-22 and possibly the VF-25) had active stealth systems, yet it never seemed to actually work (except for one scene in Macross Plus).

[Mr March]

It seems likely the VF-27 would have more than just the obvious center forehead gun. But at the same time, the new Valkyries follow a lot of motifs from Kawamori's Aquarion designs and those designs used plentiful cylinders mounted on the head units that gave the robots a internally mechanized appearance. They could just as easily be decorative for that purpose.

[d3v]

I think you've pretty much summed it all up.

Its the markings that baffle me. If it is a "top secret" fighter (which would be a fair assumption at this stage at least) then why the hell does it have Galaxy and NUNS logo's on it.

I think that they have missed a good opportunity to here to have an "evil black" vehicle rather than purple. That would look a lot cooler. (I know that its probably an animation issue, with most of the action so far taking place in space it probably would be difficult to animate a totally black ship)

Taksraven

It all points out to Galaxy doing something that Frontier isn't aware off.

As for black, It doesn't really seem to ba a "Macross villain" color. The only time we ever had a black Valk was with Diamond Force in 7, and they were good guys.

[grss1982]

It seems likely the VF-27 would have more than just the obvious center forehead gun. But at the same time, the new Valkyries follow a lot of motifs from Kawamori's Aquarion designs and those designs used plentiful cylinders mounted on the head units that gave the robots a internally mechanized appearance. They could just as easily be decorative for that purpose.

You mea this: http://i28.tinypic.com/2582ya1.png

[Heron]

It all points out to Galaxy doing something that Frontier isn't aware off.

As for black, It doesn't really seem to be a "Macross villain" color. The only time we ever had a black Valk was with Diamond Force in 7, and they were good guys.

Wrong.

D.D. "Daisy" Ivanov's SV-51 was Black. See image below.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Heron

[mikeszekely]

Speaking of the SV-51... the Battroid looks fairly similar to VF-25 (and by extension, the VF-27). March, or someone else more familiar with the subject than I, how similar are their transformations?

[d3v]

Wrong.

D.D. "Daisy" Ivanov's SV-51 was Black. See image below.

That's more a combination of dark grey with a few black highlights than pure black. Now compare that to the Diamond Force VF-17s which were celarly black.

Edited June 1, 2008 by d3v

[kensei]

I find it interesting how the 27 has primarily energy weapons. There must be some hardcore power plant they are using. And the super charged energy rifle shot? Crazy man. Just imagine the bloody FAST Packed version that will come soon. Other than the colour and head design, I find it to be a wicked awesome design. And I can't decide whether I like it more than the 25, I like both!

Edited June 1, 2008 by kensei

[mikeszekely]

That more a combination of dark grey with a few black highlights than pure black. Now compare that to the Diamond Force VF-17s which were celarly black.

Regardless of who did and didn't fly black VFs, purple's been more the official bad guy color lately. The Enemy Valkyrie from the VF-X, all the Varauta fighters (FZ-109, AZ-130, FBz-99), and Nora's SV-51 (which had a lot more screen time than the cannon fodder or Ivanov's SV-51's) were all purple.

[d3v]

I find it interesting how the 27 has primarily energy weapons. There must be some hardcore power plant they are using. And the super charged energy rifle shot? Crazy man. Just imagine the bloody FAST Packed version that will come soon. Other than the colour and head design, I find it to be a wicked awesome design. And I can't decide whether I like it more than the 25, I like both!

Well it does have 4 engines so we can safely assume that it outputs more power.

Edited June 1, 2008 by d3v

[kensei]

Well it does have 4 engines so we can safely assume that it outputs more power.

Not really, as we don't know whether each engine can have the same output as a single 25 engine.

[wolfx]

I had forgotten that they had "sword" weapons like that. Did they ever use them in the series or was it just restricted to artwork?

Cool pic too.

I liked a lot of the Mospeada designs, especially the inbit units, which were all different but there was a logical progression between them. You could see the evolution of the designs, which can be rare.

taksraven

The sword was never used in the anime but it was always featured in toys and models of Blow Superior.

I have a question. What makes the VF-25 capable of destroying the enemy? I mean, is it the type of missiles it uses or the

type of rounds it fires? I'm alittle confused at how the VF-171's can never seem to shoot down the enemy, and yet the VF-25 manages to do so.

Smaller Vajra can be destroyed by conventional gunfire and missiles. VF-171s also can if they are skilled.

Speaking of the SV-51... the Battroid looks fairly similar to VF-25 (and by extension, the VF-27). March, or someone else more familiar with the subject than I, how similar are their transformations?

Quite different yet similar. The cockpit in VF-25 folds upwards, the nose cone folds downwards and the chest assembly swings forward covering it. The SV-51's cockpit remains in position while the chest assembly folds over it. If anything i'll say that Kawamori took the same idea from the SV-51, and tweaked the transformation just abit so it will be unique.

I find it interesting how the 27 has primarily energy weapons. There must be some hardcore power plant they are using. And the super charged energy rifle shot? Crazy man. Just imagine the bloody FAST Packed version that will come soon. Other than the colour and head design, I find it to be a wicked awesome design. And I can't decide whether I like it more than the 25, I like both!

Yeah....the thing looks like a mini-macross cannon. I just hope that VF-27s are not made from Vajra parts or something like Evangelion....which can go berserk.

[d3v]

Quite different yet similar. The cockpit in VF-25 folds upwards, the nose cone folds downwards and the chest assembly swings forward covering it. The SV-51's cockpit remains in position while the chest assembly folds over it. If anything i'll say that Kawamori took the same idea from the SV-51, and tweaked the transformation just abit so it will be unique.

The transformation of the VF-25s torso is quite similar to that of the VF-19, just without the nose jutting out of the chest

[wolfx]

The transformation of the VF-25s torso is quite similar to that of the VF-19, just without the nose jutting out of the chest

Not really....considering it swings around the cockpit like the SV-51 whereas in the VF/YF-19, the torso section just goes over the cockpit.

[d3v]

Not really....considering it swings around the cockpit like the SV-51 whereas in the VF/YF-19, the torso section just goes over the cockpit.

But didn't Kawamori himself state that it transforms like the VF-19? Right now, the way the nose transforms (the 25's nose swings down 180' compared to 90' in the VF-19) and the wings are the only major differences I see between the two.

Edited June 1, 2008 by d3v

[Final Vegeta]

I think that they have missed a good opportunity to here to have an "evil black" vehicle rather than purple. That would look a lot cooler. (I know that its probably an animation issue, with most of the action so far taking place in space it probably would be difficult to animate a totally black ship)

I don't think black is a traditional color for evil in Japan. Usually a couple of rivals is white and red. In mecha anime though black and secondary colors (purple, green, orange) are evil. I think purple, being similar to red, is considered more evil than black.

Really, I find it weird that other valks (the VF-19 and YF-21/VF-22 and possibly the VF-25) had active stealth systems, yet it never seemed to actually work (except for one scene in Macross Plus).

A scene which was in the OVA but not in the movie. And there is also the first episode of Macross Zero.

But I think you misunderstood: since in Macross most mecha are stealth, they have developed some countermeasures for it.

Regardless of who did and didn't fly black VFs, purple's been more the official bad guy color lately. The Enemy Valkyrie from the VF-X, all the Varauta fighters (FZ-109, AZ-130, FBz-99), and Nora's SV-51 (which had a lot more screen time than the cannon fodder or Ivanov's SV-51's) were all purple.

You forgot Dynamite's purple VA-3M.

But didn't Kawamori himself state that it transforms like the VF-19? Right now, the way the nose transforms (the 25's nose swings down 180' compared to 90' in the VF-19) and the wings are the only major differences I see between the two.

Well, the head doesn't turn 180° when transforming. Aside from this, in the original preproduction sketches for the YF-19, YF-19's nosetip was folded down instead of pointing forward.

FV

[d3v]

Well, the head doesn't turn 180° when transforming. Aside from this, in the original preproduction sketches for the YF-19, YF-19's nosetip was folded down instead of pointing forward.

Well it's nice to finally have a head that seems to fit nicely in fighter mode. The one from the 19 seemd to take a bit of a stretch of the imagination and always ended up looking a bit awkward in the toys (and in the Fire Valk kit model, had to be removed to transform the thing).

[Mr March]

You mean this: http://i28.tinypic.com/2582ya1.png

Yes. I'd bet it's a gun, but it could just as easily be mechanized styling given the Frontier VF's similarity to the Aquarion designs.