CG Star Wars movie in theatres this august

[eugimon]

I think that was the ONE time something like that happened, and it was believable because it explained how that species was (basically) like Vulcans, but to an even more extreme step--purely logical, with pure order. Everything nice and patterned with straight lines and right angles. So an attack comprised of purely "random" patterns and curves probably would be darn-near uncounterable by them.

It's not like he plotted an entire war based on some little manuever that humans aren't good at countering based on his study of Matisse.

Frankly, there'd be a zillion ways to learn that "whatever species it was" was basically incapable of comprehending "random 3D curves" or whatever---and you can bet every commander in the fleet was probably aware of that and used it to their advantage whenever possible. Thrawn just liked to show off via art...

it may be the one time it was illustrated (like scream I haven't read these books in years) but it doesn't change the fact that Thrawn talked about it and it was an important part of Thrawn's character. It also laid down the framework for how Thrawn was able to defeat the new republic so handidly, over and over again. It's to be understood that his knack for deciphering psychology through art was how he did this, thrawn himself says: "Learn about art, Captain. When you understand a species' art, you understand that species."

It's just such a stupid idea.

And no, every commander in the fleet didn't know about it, because captain pallaeon thought they were doomed and freaked out a little when thrawn pulled off his art maneuver, in the example that illustrated his strategic brilliance.

Finally, Zahn killed whatever was interesting about this character when he brought back thrawn as a clone... clones, the lazy science fiction writers ultimate crutch.

[Scream Man]

Thrawn WAS a bit of a showboater. hes my fav villain in Star wars actually.

[eugimon]

yeah, it's just a shame that Zahn used such a ridiculous concept for him, otherwise he was such an interesting anti-vader.

[David Hingtgen]

There was a Thrawn clone? (I've read like 5 SW books ever, with the Heir to the Empire set making up most of that)

[eugimon]

There was a Thrawn clone? (I've read like 5 SW books ever, with the Heir to the Empire set making up most of that)

yeah, apparantly Thrawn predicted his own defeat and commissioned a clone to be decanted ten years after his death... and Zahn has said that he wouldn't dismiss the idea of decanting more clones as needed but the gimmick would be that the clones know that they're clones... so expect Thrawn Riley to become a menace for the new new republic, complete with blue hoodie.

[lord_breetai]

yeah, apparantly Thrawn predicted his own defeat and commissioned a clone to be decanted ten years after his death... and Zahn has said that he wouldn't dismiss the idea of decanting more clones as needed but the gimmick would be that the clones know that they're clones... so expect Thrawn Riley to become a menace for the new new republic, complete with blue hoodie.

Didn't read the book, but apparantly the clone dies before ever being brought to life.

Though Luke and Mara THINK there might be another clone out there, that the one they found was just a smokescreen. Though I dunno I know, before "The Hand of Thrawn" came out, Zhan stated that brining Thrawn back would be a bad thing... if he didn't really die it makes the original books pointless or something he said.

But maybe he changed his mind.

[eugimon]

Well, apparantly the idea is that Thrawn was trying to unit the empire so that it would be able to be prepared for some bigger threat outside of the galaxy... which isn't ripping off Chapter House Dune at all ... and there's a nonsourced quote attributed to Zahn saying that a Thrawn clone can always be decanted in order to meet this new galactic threat if needed.

[lord_breetai]

Well, apparantly the idea is that Thrawn was trying to unit the empire so that it would be able to be prepared for some bigger threat outside of the galaxy... which isn't ripping off Chapter House Dune at all ... and there's a nonsourced quote attributed to Zahn saying that a Thrawn clone can always be decanted in order to meet this new galactic threat if needed.

Outside the Galaxy are where the "True Sith" are... remember from KOTOR II

Actually reminds me of lots of things... including Transformers Generation II.

[eugimon]

Only Chapter House Dune was published in 1985... nearly ten years before TF G2.

[lord_breetai]

Only Chapter House Dune was published in 1985... nearly ten years before TF G2.

True... I'm just re-inforcing that it's been done... and I don't know the specifics of Chapter House, I only read the first Dune novel, but all I'm saying is the true threat, that's behind the threat that's in another Galaxy has been done before. (Herbert's friend E.E. "Doc" Smith for example).

[Scream Man]

Well, apparantly the idea is that Thrawn was trying to unit the empire so that it would be able to be prepared for some bigger threat outside of the galaxy... which isn't ripping off Chapter House Dune at all ... and there's a nonsourced quote attributed to Zahn saying that a Thrawn clone can always be decanted in order to meet this new galactic threat if needed.

He was, but this wasnt added till after the fact, and not by Zahn. And it isnt a clone of Thrawn that comes back; an Imperial Moff 9I think) had an actor play thrawn to get the empire to follow him. They pull it off for a very short time, and manage to keep Palleon away long enough to pull off the ruse for awhile. i know they get lucky at a couple of points, and there was a third person helping them but I forget the details now. Again, I havent read it in a long time. ANyway the imposter survives a few months and then (from memory) gets killed. I dont remember seeing cloned Thrawns ever, but again i stopped reading SW books when the NJO sarted and they started making really REALLY stupid decisions with characters.

[badboy00z]

How long is this "movie"?

[David Hingtgen]

2 hours, I swear.

Note: everywhere says 98 mins. Gotta be wrong. I checked my watch when I got to the theater, when the movie started, and when I walked out of the lobby. Right around 2 hours. I expected it to be just over an hour and a half like they say--but it ran longer.

::edit:: Ah---found a place that says it's 121 minutes. And that fits perfectly.

[eugimon]

True... I'm just re-inforcing that it's been done... and I don't know the specifics of Chapter House, I only read the first Dune novel, but all I'm saying is the true threat, that's behind the threat that's in another Galaxy has been done before. (Herbert's friend E.E. "Doc" Smith for example).

It has been done before, but in this case there are way too many similarities. Do a wiki search on Chapter House Dune and you'll just how similar the plot points are.

[eugimon]

He was, but this wasnt added till after the fact, and not by Zahn. And it isnt a clone of Thrawn that comes back; an Imperial Moff 9I think) had an actor play thrawn to get the empire to follow him. They pull it off for a very short time, and manage to keep Palleon away long enough to pull off the ruse for awhile. i know they get lucky at a couple of points, and there was a third person helping them but I forget the details now. Again, I havent read it in a long time. ANyway the imposter survives a few months and then (from memory) gets killed. I dont remember seeing cloned Thrawns ever, but again i stopped reading SW books when the NJO sarted and they started making really REALLY stupid decisions with characters.

nah, there's a clone that Luke and Mara manage to drown/kill before it's decanted.

[Uxi]

it may be the one time it was illustrated (like scream I haven't read these books in years) but it doesn't change the fact that Thrawn talked about it and it was an important part of Thrawn's character. It also laid down the framework for how Thrawn was able to defeat the new republic so handidly, over and over again. It's to be understood that his knack for deciphering psychology through art was how he did this, thrawn himself says: "Learn about art, Captain. When you understand a species' art, you understand that species."

You ran entirely the wrong way with that. The concept is that the character uses art for psychological insight. It was used once species wise. The other instances where he's looking at art, it's specific to individuals. IIRC he had the Corellian Senator idol guy of Han, who's name escapes me at the moment. He also had Ackbars at a different point.

Finally, Zahn killed whatever was interesting about this character when he brought back thrawn as a clone... clones, the lazy science fiction writers ultimate crutch.

I don't think they've done nearly enough, really. There are ENORMOUS implications to cloning. If they have that technology down, you could grow organic hands, organs, etc and Luke wouldn't need the cybernetic one, for example. Mortality is another. Dune touched on it, but it was particular to Dune's setting and technology...

Most Sci-Fi doesn't explore the concepts of their technology. Trek, for example, has ridiculously ignored many aspects of theirs...

[Uxi]

Is there any SW material that is based AFTER RotJ?

Lots and lots and lots. Some 30 years, though I've only read Thrawn trilogy, duology, some of the KJA blech and then NJO. They've already gone at least 10 years beyond NJO. I haven't read any of Legacy (comics or novels). Comics supposedly go what a hundred plus years in teh future? Or less?

I wish they would go to KOTOR and/or TotJ for animation. Still haven't seen the Clone Wars movie and will probably really wait for the Blu-ray...

[eugimon]

You ran entirely the wrong way with that. The concept is that the character uses art for psychological insight. It was used once species wise. The other instances where he's looking at art, it's specific to individuals. IIRC he had the Corellian Senator idol guy of Han, who's name escapes me at the moment. He also had Ackbars at a different point.

No, you're just choosing to ignore how preposterous the idea is or re-imagining it to seem more interesting than it actually is. Every character write up on Thrawn states that he studies art to understand the psychology of entire planets, not just individuals. It wasn't just used once for a specific species, it was illustrated once as a proof of concept. Thrawn himself talks about how art gives insight into entire species.

I don't think they've done nearly enough, really. There are ENORMOUS implications to cloning. If they have that technology down, you could grow organic hands, organs, etc and Luke wouldn't need the cybernetic one, for example. Mortality is another. Dune touched on it, but it was particular to Dune's setting and technology...

Most Sci-Fi doesn't explore the concepts of their technology. Trek, for example, has ridiculously ignored many aspects of theirs...

mortality and cloning has been explored in SW, the Dark Empire comics had palpatine cloning himself and using the force to reinhabit his body... twice. Zahn had dead people coming back in his books as well. This is a crutch, you make characters immortal so you never have to deal with any real repurcussions of characters actions... why explore what could happen with any sort of intelligence when you can just say, "ta-da! palpatine is back!"?

At least in the Dune books, Herbert actually explored what would happen to a rip van winkle type character... the SW books just use technology as a plot device.

[lord_breetai]

No, you're just choosing to ignore how preposterous the idea is or re-imagining it to seem more interesting than it actually is. Every character write up on Thrawn states that he studies art to understand the psychology of entire planets, not just individuals. It wasn't just used once for a specific species, it was illustrated once as a proof of concept. Thrawn himself talks about how art gives insight into entire species.

mortality and cloning has been explored in SW, the Dark Empire comics had palpatine cloning himself and using the force to reinhabit his body... twice. Zahn had dead people coming back in his books as well. This is a crutch, you make characters immortal so you never have to deal with any real repurcussions of characters actions... why explore what could happen with any sort of intelligence when you can just say, "ta-da! palpatine is back!"?

At least in the Dune books, Herbert actually explored what would happen to a rip van winkle type character... the SW books just use technology as a plot device.

Ah but at the end of Dark Empire Palpatine was dragged down to hell (or the Aybss of the Darkside or whatever) by another Jedi... or something.

Honestly while some EU is good there's only two things that actually interest me.

Star Wars Legacy (not Legacy of the Force... the Legacy comics) which are set some 100 years after ROTJ

and

Tales of the Jedi/KOTOR: Tales of the Jedi is definitely the better of the two in terms of consistency and stories (for example why does KOTOR have sith lords calling themselves Darth and following a modified form of the rule of 2 3, 000 years before Darth Bane?). But both Kotor and Tales of the Jedi have the 4, 000 year seperation advantage that don't turn them into fanwanks.

[eugimon]

I agree that the Tales/KOTOR stuff is much more interesting than the post ROTJ stuff. Too much of the post ROTJ stuff gets bogged down by the whole "a new threat even more devestating than thr death star!" over and over again and this latest wave of "a new military threat even more devestating than the empire!" isn't much better. I have no idea if this making Jacen the new big bad Sith is interesting or well written... but it just smacks of fanfic to me.

[baronv]

So, the CG Clone Wars move was good....if it was kept as a t.v. mini-series. As a stand alone film I didn't find it involving enough since the battles were not really grand in scope at all which I would think would be a big plus for an entirely CG Star Wars movie. Animation was very stiff though. Those items + baby burping Hutt + very effeminate Uncle Hutt= What the !?

[Gubaba]

After reading most of this thread, I'm glad of two things:

First, that I didn't go see the new movie.

Second, that I stopped reading Star Wars books after the Thrawn Trilogy (which, at the time, I assumed were meant to take the place of Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, and would finish everything off once and for all...imagine my surprise when the ending was left quite open for further sequels. I was so annoyed that I never picked up another one).

[lord_breetai]

I agree that the Tales/KOTOR stuff is much more interesting than the post ROTJ stuff. Too much of the post ROTJ stuff gets bogged down by the whole "a new threat even more devestating than thr death star!" over and over again and this latest wave of "a new military threat even more devestating than the empire!" isn't much better. I have no idea if this making Jacen the new big bad Sith is interesting or well written... but it just smacks of fanfic to me.

Yeah, I don't know about the Dark Lord Jacen stuff... just reading the back of the books, when he has to kill someone he loves to get trained as a Sith "what bothered him was not to do it or not, but who should die" bleh.

Star Wars Legacy is different though, cause just like Tales/KOTOR is the earliest point on the timeline, the Legacy comics are the latest, and thereby avoid a lot of problems

Star Wars: Legacy is set 100 years after the Legacy of the Force series. The comics feature Cade Skywalker, a descendant of Luke Skywalker, who was trained as a Jedi but has abandoned the order. He apprenticed himself to the pirate Rav and lives among bounty hunters, smugglers and pirates. Cade has also dropped his last name. The series begins with an attack on the Jedi Temple and the overthrow of the Galactic Empire by a newly created Sith order.

Yeah it has Luke's force spirit show up... but what I like is how messed up Cade is... everyone thinks he'll be the ultimate hero and savior just because he's a Jedi, but he wants none of that crap... and there are other people they could get the Jedi to rally around.

The two new Empires are kind of interesting because you have a new Emperor who's more or less a light side Jedi, with his own Jedi order... who was forced to work with the new Sith... the Sith of course backstabbed him and took over the Empire, so you have four different factions who don't trust each other. The Empire under the Sith, the part of the Empire that's still loyal to Emperor Fell, The scattered Jedi and the remenants of the alliance/republic.

[Scream Man]

See, Ive been tempted by the Legacy conmics. I really dislike prequal/middle stuff; I know what happened already, i want to know what happens next!

Eugi - Have started re-reading the Thrawn trilogy, and a note on the art thing; When you think about it, the issue isnt that he uses art to know a species (Though he must study other aspects of their history and phisiology as well, since he matches what he sees in their art to various historical and biological apsects of the species) it's that in Star Wars, and a lot of Sci-Fi, each planet is essentially a country. There are no different areas of people on a given world; You arent from Georia on Corellia, you're just from Corellia. and all Corellians have certain social traits, in the same way that we do between different countries. A lot of sci fi assumes a world is all the same, very few tal;k about different countries on the world, and if they do those countries are odten at war. Off the top of my head, the only examples of 2 or more very different cultrues existing on a world are the Quarrens/Mon Calamari and the Gungans/Nabooians (Or whatever u call someone from Naboo). Corellia has different cultures/species on different planets, but when you are born on Corellia, no matter where, you are corellian.

Based on that then, its entirely possible that a species could have an art style; China has an artistic style, Africas is different, aboriginial art here is different, European etc etc etc. I get what you're saying, I truly do. Its implausible. But then the main characters use a mysterious energy field to do anything the writer needs them to do, so who am i to Judge?

[Uxi]

No, you're just choosing to ignore how preposterous the idea is or re-imagining it to seem more interesting than it actually is. Every character write up on Thrawn states that he studies art to understand the psychology of entire planets, not just individuals. It wasn't just used once for a specific species, it was illustrated once as a proof of concept. Thrawn himself talks about how art gives insight into entire species.

You going to corroborate any of that or just admit you're making it up?

[Uxi]

Yeah, I don't know about the Dark Lord Jacen stuff... just reading the back of the books, when he has to kill someone he loves to get trained as a Sith "what bothered him was not to do it or not, but who should die" bleh.

Yeah not sure about that either. But having skipped the whole book series, it's easy to not think too hard about it.

Yeah it has Luke's force spirit show up... but what I like is how messed up Cade is... everyone thinks he'll be the ultimate hero and savior just because he's a Jedi, but he wants none of that crap... and there are other people they could get the Jedi to rally around.

Sounded like they were heading towards the anti-hero bit at first. Now I'm not sure. Course, I haven't been buying these comics either so just going by what I read on the net.

[lord_breetai]

Yeah not sure about that either. But having skipped the whole book series, it's easy to not think too hard about it.

Sounded like they were heading towards the anti-hero bit at first. Now I'm not sure. Course, I haven't been buying these comics either so just going by what I read on the net.

Well he definitely changes and becomes a little less anti-hero-esc at times. But the interesting thing is after the first book, there will be whole story arcs that don't involve him... there's lots of snapshots of everything that's going on.

I've only read the first two graphic novels, but I like it.

[jwinges]

Since you guys have read some of the other SW stuff....do any of you remember a comic book where a sith lord finds 3 kids and trains them as sith. Anybody know the name of it and whether there was more than one issue. Came out in the 90's I think. And it was pre EP1

Edited August 23, 2008 by jwinges

[UN Spacy]

This movie was HORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE.

Thank goodness I didn't spend any money on it.

[Scream Man]

ok, did i see the same movie as the rest of u?

Yes, the overall plot of the jabbas son kidnapping was sort of lame. In fact it was really lame.

but man, Anakin was a character! he had personality! Obi Wan was awesome, the whole stalling for time thing was such an ObiWan thing to do i LOVED it! Ashoka is annoying yes, but well withing the confines of her character. Shes a 13yr old who is suddnely thrown in with a semi legend, and reacts like a brat. When shes round ObiWan, shes respectful. Get her with Anakin, and she can see the way he treats her, and responds in kind. I loved her backhand fighting style, I liked her look and voice, and while she was a brat i look forward to seeing her character grow and her relationship to Anakin grow. Padme felt tacked in, but i suspect thats more to do with the movie format. in the series, Im betting that would have been round the 3rd or 4th episode, which would have worked fine. And Rex is kick ass! This mademe want to rush aout and get a Rex toy (And an AT-TE, but thats a diffrent thing...). he was just so awesome! Dooku was great, Asaj was good, Jabba...well, iv never liekd Jabba, so i didnt mind him. hell even Jabbas son wasnt bad all things considered. Not great, but then that whole plot wasnt great.

And the action! How did people not think this was an awesome animated action flick?! The aerial combat was fun, the saber duels grerat, the big battles awesome. for a kids show, they do an awful lot! Theres athe clone who is picked up by the battledroid and then SHOT THROUGH the chest then tossed aside....AWESOME! Anakin Dooku was my favourite duel, though Obi Wan Asaj wasnt too bad.

Im so psyched for the show...

[wraith1701]

I enjoyed the film as well. Of course it wasn't the "event" that the 6 live-action films were, but it wasn't intended to be. I went into the film expecting to see the Star Wars universe fleshed out a little more, and to see some cool action scenes, and the film delivered!

What I'm really pumped up about is what the film represents- New Star Wars content on a weekly basis!

I'm looking forward to seeing the clones in action, looking forward to finally seeing more interaction between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing the workings of the Republic military. I got a real kick out of the scenes on the Republic Cruisers, and comparing them to what we've seen on Imperial Star Destroyers in the original trilogy.

Can't wait till the series starts!

[Sergorn]

Well for starter I must point that I am a huge Star Wars, particularily of the Prequel films. I've read a lot of UE stuff as well though it tends to be very uneven, ranking from awesome stuff (Darth Bane) to pure crap (Legacy urg...) So anyway I saw it at a sneak preview last week (the theatre was far from being full but eck). And well I really liked it, and my girlfriend who isn't specially a Star Wars fans as well.

It does feel reminiscent of Tartakovsky's series - in a sense that it's pretty much non stop action and great fun, altough it doesn't get quite over the top as the 2D series, and the action feels more in line with Prequel Films. There is an actual plot this time though, altough we're obviously far from the depth of the movies - but then that's not really the point of Clone Wars.

In any case I'm even pleasntly suprised since even the most potentialli controversial aspect of the film work very well IMO. Ashoka is nice and fun, her relationship with Anakin is well developped and they have a wonderful chemistry. Anakin is also one of the highlight of the film - simply because he is throughout the whole movie he is painted in a positive light - which is a first in UE who tend to reduce him to a lame caricature like in the first CW series and most CW Books/Comics. It felt great and you could just really see the "good man" than Obi-Wan talked about in the OT (there were hint of him in the beginning of Episode III, but soon replaced by Darth Vader).I liked Jabba's son as well and on the whole the story was pretty decent. My main complain as far as the plot goes, is that the whole subplot with Padmé feel extraneous and unecessary as if they'd just thought "Hey let's fond a way to shove Padme into the plot !" But that doesn't really hurt the film.

So in any case it's all great, techincally it's quite impressive especially if you consider that it's originally made for TV. Sure it's nowhere near as impressive as a Pixar film... but keep in mind we'll get the same quality weekly and TV and that's just mindblowingly good and lighyears ahead any Full CG TV series ever made. And it's also well directed with some impressive shots. The music is pretty good as well, though somewhat different from Williams'

So basically it was fun. It's not a great film by any means, but it's very fun and action packed flick which I guess is the whole point of it.

I'm really looking forward for the actual series in October now.

-Sergorn

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Lucas has achieved all what he wanted in life... first saturated CG in the prequels, now with the human actor element totally removed

(probably a good thing... i'm looking at you Episode two jedis!)

and CG is all that remains...

now, he sleeps well with a big dumb grin on his face with dribble in his beard.

Can't wait to see it as well. had to get the third viewing of Dark Knight out of the way first though.

Edited August 28, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[aerocombatpilot]

I Did not see the Clone Wars film, but I saw the trailer for the TV show and it was awesome; now I wish I'd gone to see the film on the big screen!!

[protostar8]

I used a free Fandango ticket I had won from a long time ago to go see this movie. I was literally the only person in the theatre (which was creepy in way). However, I really enjoyed the film. I thought the characters had personalities that surpassed their real movie selves. I can't wait for the new cartoon series...