Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I wasn't aware of that, it's actually better they just go to the twin scroll turbo (like the STI's) than stick with the twin turbo because the twin turbo setup on the Legacy's wasn't done in an efficient manner even if it did yield good results. I don't have a chart of the HP torque curves but i'm sure i could find it, IIRC the 2.5L STI's had more torque than the 2.0L JDM's but the curve was more peaked than flat, so i was basing my thoughts off of that comparison as opposed to the Legacy vs Legacy. Refreshed my knowledge on which ones are semi-closed and open decks, and it looks like the 05+ 2.5 (aka EJ255 EJ257) turbo models are semi closed deck and any JDM turbo EJ that isn't STI is open deck. I think in stock form the JDM model will offer better performance, but if you plan on doing a few performance upgrades i think the 2.5 turbo legacy will give you more reliable performance and you can always upgrade the turbo to something larger (VF-22) since you have the added displacement to make up for the low-end and mid range. The term open, semi-closed, and closed deck block, in layman terms is the space between the cylinder bore and the block. I'm having trouble finding a proper photo, but if you take the head off of the EJ257 you won't be able to see straight through the block it'll look like it's partially blocked up at the bottom of each cylinder bore. The block partially closing off the bottom of each cylinder allows for extra reinforcement and helps prevent the block from warping/cracking which is especially useful in applications of force induction. Most aluminum block motors are semi-closed or closed deck, good example being the Turbocharged Duratec 2.0L, 2.3L and 2.5L that Ford/Mazda use and the EJ257 in the Subaru's. Thanks, the wonders of the internet! http://legacycentral.org/library/literature/deck.htm I never even knew they made open-deck blocks. To me, engine blocks were always solid lumps like the first pic! Why bother with that flimsy looking open-deck crap! It looks shite! My view of Subaru has dimmed! Back to the 2.5 vs 2.0. Well, the 2.5 STi is not an option for me as it never went into the Legacy. The main reason why I want a JDM 2.0t is because I wanted the manual box. The #$%%! local distributor only brings in Autos. BTW, could you verify this last bit of info? Apparently, the 2.5T also does not come with the aluminium suspension bits while the JDM does. Sounds strange to me that Subaru would make 2 different sets of suspension. I thought ALL the legacies would use the same aluminium gubbins. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Thanks, the wonders of the internet! http://legacycentral.org/library/literature/deck.htm I never even knew they made open-deck blocks. To me, engine blocks were always solid lumps like the first pic! Why bother with that flimsy looking open-deck crap! It looks shite! My view of Subaru has dimmed! Back to the 2.5 vs 2.0. Well, the 2.5 STi is not an option for me as it never went into the Legacy. The main reason why I want a JDM 2.0t is because I wanted the manual box. The #$%%! local distributor only brings in Autos. BTW, could you verify this last bit of info? Apparently, the 2.5T also does not come with the aluminium suspension bits while the JDM does. Sounds strange to me that Subaru would make 2 different sets of suspension. I thought ALL the legacies would use the same aluminium gubbins. Thanks! I thought outside of the motors all of the other bits were the same; i have heard (though not confirmed) that the JDM STI's got longer sway bars than the USDM, so that may be true for the Legacy too. It's been awhile since i've been on any of the scooby forums, i should probably get myself back in the loop. I kind of gave up on them once i realized nobody had reliable information, everyone has only half of the truth, and that's frustrating especially when trying to purchase the right motor or in your case purchase the right car. Nobody knows which blocks are in what cars for some reason, there's a LOT of controversy over which uses semi-closed deck, open deck, which uses VF-39's which use TD04's, it's a real PIA since they varied it so much by MY. It's a lot of guess work, you can find the right information if you talk to the right people and scower the forums, but it's still not worth it. As far as the EJ25 turbo in the Legacy, i believe it's semi-closed also (at least it is in the US) as it's any 2.5 turbo model from 05 and up (or is it 04 and up??? i have to reconfirm that) including STI and WRX. It's the STI JDM's that only came semi-closed, again it's convoluted and annoying to follow Subaru's, don't even get started on the transmissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 2008 Dodge Challenger SRT8 Officially Debuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 "Dodge already accepting orders". Wasn't the entire (very short) 2008 run sold out a month ago? Overall though--I think I like it better than the new Camaro. "Alcoa Forged" wheels, interesting. (I have forged Alcoa wheels, and they rock) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I dunno. It looks blocky, or chunky, or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 "MSRP: $40,095" ?!? Man.......this is some ol' BULL SHEIII..... Yeah, way to go Dodge---price the f'ing thing right out of the range of the consumer segment that'd be most likely to want/buy the fuggin thing in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If only my dad had never sold his custom-ordered '69 Charger, I could have one now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If you're ever in SD I'll give you a ride in mine. Also, 40K is obviously ridiculous for the Challenger but totally expected. I remember the latest Mustang being that high in price and demand when it first debuted. I wonder if the Challenger will drop in price and rarity as well, although I guess it depends on whether or not Chrysler intends to mass produce this thing or not. Is this car supposed to be limited like their precious Viper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghadrack Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Yeah, I will never figure out what the marketting geniuses are thinking with the prices on the Redneck Racecar / Musclecar Revivals. These were the cars that the working class car modders of the day owned, they were affordable (to some extent) and not meant to compete with the Porsches and the Corvettes. Joe Hammerhead can't afford a 40K Challenger, so who's gonna buy them? Looks like a niche market car that they priced out of it's niche, time will tell. I assume they think, like the Harley Davidson revival, that all the doctors and dentists and lawyers that hate their lives and wish they had been rebels free ont he road would pay 50G's for them all spruced up. I think it sucks, they look cool, but no way in hell they are worth 40G's. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I will never figure out what the marketting geniuses are thinking with the prices on the Redneck Racecar / Musclecar Revivals. These were the cars that the working class car modders of the day owned, they were affordable (to some extent) and not meant to compete with the Porsches and the Corvettes. Joe Hammerhead can't afford a 40K Challenger, so who's gonna buy them? Looks like a niche market car that they priced out of it's niche, time will tell. The way I look at it, at least part of the reason is : The competition. What I mean is that if they built a $15-25k rwd muscle car, its probably going to be full of cheap plastics, oversteer you into the hedge and get out-run by slightly cheaper Japanese or Korean imports. Back in the older days, there were no VTEC Civics and Turbo'd Silvia's to compete against. Basically, if its not priced/built to the standards of say a 350Z, its going to get out-gunned by the 350Z and then everyone will say its crap anyway Edited February 7, 2008 by Retracting Head Ter Ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Totally off topic here.... my car just turn 10k. sorry the last pix was too big. Edited February 8, 2008 by Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 my car just turn 10k. Aww, it's still a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'll post a pic when I hit 3000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 With all this mileage posting, I'll have to post a picture of my 231,8** mile odometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) The new Challenger is ugly -- I love it. I would so drive one of these (in addition to what I have, now), but $40K? Yikes. Sort of off topic, with the new Camaro and Challenger impending arrivals, there's been much talk about how the wanna-be-fastest-on-the-block Mustang drivers getting nervous; well, I'm not nervous at all. Hey, sqidd, are you nervous? I wonder If growing a mullet would get me a discount at the dealership. edit: mileage check, 47K on the odometer. Edited February 8, 2008 by Wicked Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've got 128k on my camry, never had any problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I haven't seen the new Challenger in solid white. Maybe I'll grow some long sideburns and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 And you won't see it for a while, as 08's don't come in white. Or red, green, blue, yellow, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've got 183,xxx on mine, still no issues, just bought new brake rotors and pads, haven't had time to install them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 And you won't see it for a while, as 08's don't come in white. Or red, green, blue, yellow, etc. Kowalski no like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Photos courtesy of Pat (PFunk) I think i like the Camaro better. Edited February 8, 2008 by emajnthis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hmm, has a "stretched" look to it--even with the shortened wheelbase. Doesn't exactly evoke "pony-car proportions" when looking at that rear 3/4 view. LOL, more like "wow, will you look at the a$$ on her!" May also lend to a drives-even-bigger-than-it-looks feel; it'll be interesting to see what the auto-rags have to say about handling feel/performance once they get long-term testers. After a little reflection, the high MSRP is not as surprising, considering it's the SRT model that's making the debut [that's supposed to be the "hi-performance/premium" level for Dodge/Chrysler, isn't it?]. But considering the hefty price point, performance better be enough to make Shelby Mustang owners break a sweat. Still, for those who wish to "stand out from the herd," the Challenger will likely seem more appealing; I'd wager production numbers will be much lower than the Mustang or the Camaro. Can't wait to see how things shape up in the motorsports realm, once the Camaro joins the fray. It'll be interesting to see if the manufacturers try to market themselves up something of a "pony-car-wars v.2.0" reminiscent of the Trans-Am heyday; or will they stay hands-off and leave it up to the privateers? count on the brand loyalties amongst the grassroots racers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Photos courtesy of Pat (PFunk) I think i like the Camaro better. Thanks for the pics. I like the new Camaro, but I like the Challenger more. I still want to see one in white, though. Also, my preference will strongly depend on the aftermarket support for each car. For the $40K price range pony/muscle (as opposed to sports) car, the Shelby 500 is tough to beat -- this is assuming one is not paying a "market adjustment" over the sticker price. Of couse, I use the term beat in regard to when-the-light-turns-green-b.s.-stopping performance. The Shelby 500's typcially make about 430 to 440 rear wheel horsepower, from the factory. I'm acquainted with a gentleman who had a cold-air induction (a pipe and cone filter), axle-back exhaust, and a custom dyno tune making 505 rear wheel horsepower. Pullies add more, and supercharger compressor swaps add even more. . . Edited February 8, 2008 by Wicked Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Arms Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the pics. I like the new Camaro, but I like the Challenger more. I still want to see one in white, though. Also, my preference will strongly depend on the aftermarket support for each car. For the $40K price range pony/muscle (as opposed to sports) car, the Shelby 500 is tough to beat -- this is assuming one is not paying a "market adjustment" over the sticker price. Of couse, I use the term beat in regard to when-the-light-turns-green-b.s.-stopping performance. The Shelby 500's typcially make about 430 to 440 rear wheel horsepower, from the factory. I'm acquainted with a gentleman who had a cold-air induction (a pipe and cone filter), axle-back exhaust, and a custom dyno tune making 505 rear wheel horsepower. Pullies add more, and supercharger compressor swaps add even more. . . I've heard the same from a girl who did some similar mods to her gT 500. I makes alot of power once the restrictive intake is swapped out. The Challenger rear reminds me of the NSX. Edited February 9, 2008 by Golden Arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I've heard the same from a girl who did some similar mods to her gT 500. I makes alot of power once the restrictive intake is swapped out. If she's a curly headed lady with a white with blue stripes color scheme, then I know her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I think the Challenger suffers from a lot of the same styling problems the other American retro cars have. They're trying to be too retro and too similar to the original design, and then putting a modern over-smoothed finish on top of it. The new Mustang suffers from this pretty bad. Honestly, if you want a car that looks like these classics... go buy a classic. But I think these new takes on them just look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante74 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) I think the Challenger suffers from a lot of the same styling problems the other American retro cars have. They're trying to be too retro and too similar to the original design, and then putting a modern over-smoothed finish on top of it. The new Mustang suffers from this pretty bad. Honestly, if you want a car that looks like these classics... go buy a classic. But I think these new takes on them just look stupid. Quoted For Truth! Edited February 9, 2008 by Dante74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Arms Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I think the Challenger suffers from a lot of the same styling problems the other American retro cars have. They're trying to be too retro and too similar to the original design, and then putting a modern over-smoothed finish on top of it. The new Mustang suffers from this pretty bad. Honestly, if you want a car that looks like these classics... go buy a classic. But I think these new takes on them just look stupid. To each his own. I love the new Challenger, Camaro and Mustang body styles. They look retro,but at the same time you can see an evolution of the designs they each play homage to. Another thing that I like about them is that none of them can be confused with any other cars out on the market. I think this is where the GTO failed miserably. It looked too much like several other vehicles being offered by Pontiac and a few other manufactures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Personally, I don't like the new Mustang style, and think the new Camaro missed the mark. But the new Challenger I put in a whole different category. It's not "retro" but more like "if they never stopped making it". I think the new Challenger did a 100x better job than the new Charger, looks-wise. And 10x better than the Mustang and Camaro. As for the GTO: It looked exactly like a G6 somehow, despite retaining 90% of its Australian parts. And the G6 itself looks like the last Neon. First time I saw a new GTO, I thought of the Neon. Not good for a muscle car. (of course, I'd love to own one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I've always called the new GTO's "Cavalier SS's" to the more-often-than-not snotty GTO crowd (don't take offense Gaijin!), but I do like them. Well, the new Challenger still looks blocky and chunky to me, however I was never a fan of the original E-body cars either, so whatever. As for the Mustang, it's porky looking but I've grown to like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 SWEEEEEET!! http://www.liveleak.com:80/view?i=73e_1192001762 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Switzerland-based Rinspeed takes a Lotus Elise and makes it go underwater. Looks like someone's been watching The Spy Who Loved Me one too many times... 2008 Rinspeed sQuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Ace Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 The first picture has convinced me to order one of those Swiss jobs; I'm not talking about the underwater car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The first picture has convinced me to order one of those Swiss jobs; I'm not talking about the underwater car. Pretty sure that's a dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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