The MW Automotive Thread 3.0

[vlenhoff]

My green is just lack of sleep; i've been working 80 hour weeks and have entirely too much thinking time. The good news is, while i was thinking of this, BMW already did this exact idea with their soon to be released 4.4L twin turbo V8. On a V8 it's very efficient, though i feel the flat configuration with it's uncanny amount of piping would benefit more from this sort of treatment. Also have some ideas regarding revolvers that my brother and i might venture into. I really need some sleep

I hear you. Man I need some sleep too. 13 hours days 5days a week... Uff...

[reddsun1]

LOL!

Ford GT: passes everything....except a gas pump!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH7Qh5RdwF0...feature=related

Edited January 12, 2008 by reddsun1

[reddsun1]

So this actually is the "real-life" ver of the Mach 5 for the upcoming movie? Oh sure, there's clearly some differences from the cartoon car--but I must say it's about the best looking attempt yet. I wonder is it Corvette-based like all the others floating around out there?

I wonder if anyone ever ponied up the cash to get these cars into a wind tunnel, just what the results would be? LOL, people would probably be afraid to drive it...still, it does "look the part" of a pseudo-60's design race car.

[areaseven]

GM has now given us a look at the front end of the new Camaro. The new headlights need to go, though.

Pre-production

Concept

[David Hingtgen]

They've already said those aren't the real headlights. Semi-quote: "went down to autozone just to have something to put in the holes".

[Vince]

I though about exaust, but it'll have to wait. Dual pipes, means dual mula! And don't worry I take it easy on the ricers... I always let them think they are going to win

Nah, I'm mostly a cool headed drivah.

from what I've read, after market exhausts add not much to power gain, or worst it might loss power, unless everything from header down is replaced. Since wrx is already TT, what do you have in mind in mods if you're doing any? oh BTY, test pipes are illegal in all states I think, so don't get caught with them.

[emajnthis]

LOL!

Ford GT: passes everything....except a gas pump!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH7Qh5RdwF0...feature=related

It's funny how in tune they are with each other without having to communicate. Looks to me like the Ford GT is really the only one that is truly a GT car, the others are race prepped street cars, i really have to hand it to the GT, it sucks gas, but it can really take the long haul.

[emajnthis]

from what I've read, after market exhausts add not much to power gain, or worst it might loss power, unless everything from header down is replaced. Since wrx is already TT, what do you have in mind in mods if you're doing any? oh BTY, test pipes are illegal in all states I think, so don't get caught with them.

WRX's aren't twin turbo (unless you meant something else by the TT), for his car, he would want to get a turbo back exhaust, and so long as he gets one from a reputable company, it's going to give a decent HP gain. Problem with the WRX's, is they require fine tuning after modifications unlike some cars which can easily adjust to change. The only Subaru's that came twin turbo were the JDM Legacy's and they were using the EJ20 not the EJ25 like his is using.

[Vince]

WRX's aren't twin turbo (unless you meant something else by the TT), for his car, he would want to get a turbo back exhaust, and so long as he gets one from a reputable company, it's going to give a decent HP gain. Problem with the WRX's, is they require fine tuning after modifications unlike some cars which can easily adjust to change. The only Subaru's that came twin turbo were the JDM Legacy's and they were using the EJ20 not the EJ25 like his is using.

so they have single turbo.. weren't they twin turbo in the past?

[emajnthis]

so they have single turbo.. weren't they twin turbo in the past?

Nope, the WRX and STI's have always been single turbo, only the JDM Legacy's were twin turbo, and even then the twin turbo setup isn't all that great. If you look at the piping for the twin turbo setup, it's pretty ridiculous (cross over pipe between the exhaust manifolds then back on each side to the turbo behind each cylinder then they connect through a Y pipe, it's a really inefficient setup), plus the blocks on the twin turbo Legacy's weren't semi-closed deck like the STI's so they couldn't handle high boost.

[Golden Arms]

from what I've read, after market exhausts add not much to power gain, or worst it might loss power, unless everything from header down is replaced. Since wrx is already TT, what do you have in mind in mods if you're doing any? oh BTY, test pipes are illegal in all states I think, so don't get caught with them.

Power loss typically is a result of going with too large of a piping diameter. You will still pick up horsepower, but you will lose some torque. Whatever diameter piping you have on your cars exhaust stick with that unless you plan for really big mods down the road.

I added a true dual exhaust with an H pipe and aftermarket mufflers to my car about 1 1/2 ago and haven't been happier.

[vlenhoff]

I just want to get intake-exhaust bolt on replacements. Likely, I would go SPT or STI (warraty+resale value)parts. Apparently this will give you a combined 30hp, now I don't know if this is at the wheels. Tunning wise, if it is required, then I'll will definitely do it.

Yes, my WRX is ST(single turbo )

In reality, I've learned the limits of my engine by the book and by experience. I know its limitations and graceful advantages. To be honest, how fast does one has to be? I'm satisfied with it, and some or many of you might disagree, but I don't have to show off or race people I don't even know or care about. I do occasionally, but in reserved occasion were other people might not be in jeopardy. I'm usually very smooth on the road. There are too many cops asking for any excuse(other than having a sporty looking car) to stop you and take your money away. I do see idiots in the streets all the time, so I just hope they don't cause an accident which could involve someone I know or a family member.

Just my opinion...

[areaseven]

The EVO Lite is coming.

2009 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart

[emajnthis]

Looks like a new Eclipse to me, probably wont' make production though considering how the current eclipse sales are going

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/mitsubishi-concept-ra-3/

PRESS RELEASE

The MITSUBISHI Concept-RA offers a unique interpretation of the sporty coupe. This two-seat pure coupe concept explores the transversely mounted, front engine packaging theme. Generous helpings of technology create a vehicle that combines exotic appeal, outstanding, fun-to-drive dynamics and heightened sensitivity for the environment

Design

Developed as a technological showcase for Mitsubishi Motors, the Concept-RA displays athletic sport coupe proportions wrapped in dynamic flowing lines that provide a powerful and compelling showpiece for the car's advanced, high technology features. Broad, muscular wheel arches house 21-inch wheels and lend graphic expression to the high degree of road control and tenacious grip afforded by the next generation S-AWC system. Meanwhile, an exposed engine cover highlights the presence of the car's high output, efficient, clean diesel engine design. The Concept-RA's inverted-slant nose and trapezoidal grille fascia reinforce Mitsubishi Motors' new design identity, albeit suitably revised to reflect the concept's sporty coupe attributes.

Concept-RA's deep red exterior hue graphically accentuates the coupe's fluid, muscular body lines, and offsets a matte black engine hood that helps impart the vehicle's strong mechanical flavor. The interior has been developed to show a fusion of tradition with leading-edge touches. The cockpit's wraparound control layout uses minimal visual instrumentation and optimizes the switch and control layout. This reduces the driver's physical and mental workload, allowing full concentration on driving. The interior also makes extensive use of fine-quality natural materials in a design that delivers the utmost control, confidence, and vehicle involvement to the driver.

Mechanical

The MITSUBISHI Concept-RA's Super-All Wheel Control driveline is a next generation all-wheel-drive system that adds Active Steering and Active Suspension control to the ACD_, AYC_, ASC_, and Sport ABS components that comprise the highly capable system used on the 2008 Lancer Evolution. Concept RA's S-AWC system integrally manages these components to realize advanced levels of control over drive torque, steering input, vehicle roll, and braking at each wheel, thereby raising traction, cornering and vehicle stability levels. Such capability affords Concept-RA intuitive, on-demand vehicle behavior that faithfully reflects driver intent by reacting instantly, under a variety of driving conditions, from everyday use to emergency avoidance situations.

MITSUBISHI Concept-RA is powered by a new, high output, high-efficiency 2.2-liter 4-cylinder DOHC 16-valve turbo diesel engine with MIVEC4. This clean diesel's MIVEC system incorporates valve lift control with low and high-speed cam profiles actuating the intake valves. A Piezoelectric injector, common-rail direct fuel injection system allows the engine to use of a lower static compression ratio. The new diesel showcases a VD/VG (Variable Diffuser / Variable Geometry) turbocharger whose internal vanes can control airflow over the turbine and compressor surfaces to produce optimum boost characteristics at all times. The efficient, low emissions diesel unit delivers a maximum output of 201 hp (150 kW) and maximum torque of 310 ft. lbs. (42.8 kg-m). For compliance with Tier 2 Bin 5 emission regulations in the United States, the clean diesel powerplant relies on a new catalytic converter system that combines a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC), NOx trap catalyst (NTC) and diesel particulate filter (DPF) technologies.

In an effort to reduce vehicle weight to improve fuel economy, vehicle performance and safety, MITSUBISHI Concept-RA features a new, rigid body structure using an aluminum space frame made from extruded aluminum sections and die-cast aluminum components. In addition, the engine hood, fenders and other outer panels made from lightweight, impact-resistant and easily recyclable plastic resin.

1: Active Center Differential

2: Active Yaw Control

3: Active Stability Control

4: Mitsubishi Innovative Valve lift and timing with Electronic Control

Edited January 14, 2008 by emajnthis

[Vince]

Nope, the WRX and STI's have always been single turbo, only the JDM Legacy's were twin turbo, and even then the twin turbo setup isn't all that great. If you look at the piping for the twin turbo setup, it's pretty ridiculous (cross over pipe between the exhaust manifolds then back on each side to the turbo behind each cylinder then they connect through a Y pipe, it's a really inefficient setup), plus the blocks on the twin turbo Legacy's weren't semi-closed deck like the STI's so they couldn't handle high boost.

and all this time I thought I was just blowing away bad drivers...

[Vince]

I just want to get intake-exhaust bolt on replacements. Likely, I would go SPT or STI (warraty+resale value)parts. Apparently this will give you a combined 30hp, now I don't know if this is at the wheels. Tunning wise, if it is required, then I'll will definitely do it.

Yes, my WRX is ST(single turbo )

In reality, I've learned the limits of my engine by the book and by experience. I know its limitations and graceful advantages. To be honest, how fast does one has to be? I'm satisfied with it, and some or many of you might disagree, but I don't have to show off or race people I don't even know or care about. I do occasionally, but in reserved occasion were other people might not be in jeopardy. I'm usually very smooth on the road. There are too many cops asking for any excuse(other than having a sporty looking car) to stop you and take your money away. I do see idiots in the streets all the time, so I just hope they don't cause an accident which could involve someone I know or a family member.

Just my opinion...

I have cold air intake in mine how, it claims to add about 10hp at red line. I don't know about that, but the engine is cooler and the low to mid range power has improved.. getting more power sooner. my next thing is the intake plenum spacer, which should be adding between 10-15 hp (again at red line). all for less than $500 and won't void warranty - according to the stealership's service manager. 1G in exhaust could adding another 20 ponies, but that will have to wait a bit, if I decided (have the money?) to do it.

[myk]

1G for an exhaust? Are we talking headers on back?

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Anyone owns a Legacy GT around here?

I am hoping to get one.

Any comments on it?

[emajnthis]

Anyone owns a Legacy GT around here?

I am hoping to get one.

Any comments on it?

what year were you looking for? early 2000's models compared to late 2000 models are night and day.

[Vince]

1G for an exhaust? Are we talking headers on back?

just the cat back stuff, thinking borla, nismo, or stillen, the headers by themselves go for $700 or so, might as well get new cats with them but I need to find out if the high flow cats are legal around here. I don't plan on going all out anyway.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

what year were you looking for? early 2000's models compared to late 2000 models are night and day.

Buying new. Weighing the JDM 2.0 Twin Scroll Dual AVCS vs the International 2.5 Single Scroll Single AVCS.

Thanks.

[areaseven]

Not bad for a concept design.

2008 Ferrari F250 Concept Design by Idries Omar

[David Hingtgen]

I like. Mostly. Front's a lot better than the back. Would like a SIDE view though.

[Dante74]

Bleegh! Ugly. Why would you put those indicator light there? It screws up the air intake completely. Why put indicators on a concept car anyway?

The front end is too wide and I won't even mention the rear.

::EDIT:: IMHO

Edited January 19, 2008 by Dante74

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Good luck on the speed humps!

I think Masamune Shirow had something like that in one of the Appleseed comics back in the late 80s?

[reddsun1]

While a Caddy isn't exactly first thing that pops into mind when I think of exhilerating performance potential--I'm no real fan of their styling either--I must say, the numbers for the 2nd gen Cadillac CTS-V are pretty impressive.

"At the top of the list: the supercharged 6.2-liter LSA V-8, which is based on the LS9 in the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. The ZR1’s eight will make roughly 620 horsepower, so even lopping off an economy-car-sized chunk of output leaves the CTS-V’s LSA with 550 horses and 550 pound-feet of torque. That’s enough to propel the CTS-V to 60 mph in just over four seconds."

14.7" front rotors, 14.4" rears; 245R19 meats up front, 285's at the rear; 380lb/ft available at 800rpm; 0-60 in a hair over 4 sec, 1/4 mi in the low 12's....oh my! Cadillac wants to present the new iteration CTS as much more refined than the first. But this thing is like Arnold Schwarzenegger in a suit, a muscle bound bruiser ready to rip of its thin visage of shirt-and-tie-sophistication and rumble.

[emajnthis]

I actually like the new CTS-V, Cadillac has steered itself into a very good direction in the past decade, and i hope it continues on this path. For a long time it was on par with Lincoln, but has since elevated their status back up with the German standard.

[yellowlightman]

The job Cadillac has done reinventing itself should really be a lesson to the rest of the American car companies. Ford and Chevy are still turning out complete crap (Corvette aside), but the fact that Cadillac is making cars that are equal to European counterparts is really something.

[emajnthis]

The job Cadillac has done reinventing itself should really be a lesson to the rest of the American car companies. Ford and Chevy are still turning out complete crap (Corvette aside), but the fact that Cadillac is making cars that are equal to European counterparts is really something.

What's also sad is Ford in Europe makes freakin awesome cars, but they refuse to bring them across the ocean. The Focus in Europe doesn't suck, and they have a bunch of other cars like the Mondeo and the Ka that could easily take on the likes of the Japanese. Mazda is the only company making Ford any money in the states, at least GM is slowly exploiting their European market, they're just doing it too slowly and in some cases through the wrong branch (Saturn...ugh, Pontiac is their best bet for bringing Europe to the states).

Edited February 1, 2008 by emajnthis

[GreenGuy42]

I actually like the new CTS-V, Cadillac has steered itself into a very good direction in the past decade, and i hope it continues on this path. For a long time it was on par with Lincoln, but has since elevated their status back up with the German standard.

Have you seen the new Malibu? C&D placed it JUST behind the Accord and new Altima, (ahead of Camry, etc...) and Motortrend had it second in the COTY awards. I've driven one, and while it's not my cup of tea (I'm a pony car guy,) the interior's nice, little noise in the I4, decent power, and is attractive, for a family car. My only real complaint is the four speed auto, but that's gone come the end of this year.

Compacts, yeah, I don't know what Chevy's thinking, and Ford's Focus is nice looking, but HORRIBLY underpowered.

[emajnthis]

Have you seen the new Malibu? C&D placed it JUST behind the Accord and new Altima, (ahead of Camry, etc...) and Motortrend had it second in the COTY awards. I've driven one, and while it's not my cup of tea (I'm a pony car guy,) the interior's nice, little noise in the I4, decent power, and is attractive, for a family car. My only real complaint is the four speed auto, but that's gone come the end of this year.

Compacts, yeah, I don't know what Chevy's thinking, and Ford's Focus is nice looking, but HORRIBLY underpowered.

I've read the reviews on the Malibu, and my only complaint is that it's still called the Malibu. If GM had any sense they would rename it like they did with the Cavalier (Cobalt anyone?). The way Ford handles the US market frustrates me, the Focus should be 2.5L Turbo 3 door or 5 door hatchback, but instead they boast that it has "Euro inspired suspension" and "35MPG", well whoopty doo, where do i sign .

Of course the general public is none the wiser, but it'd be nice to get this at some point:

Edited February 3, 2008 by emajnthis

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Buying new. Weighing the JDM 2.0 Twin Scroll Dual AVCS vs the International 2.5 Single Scroll Single AVCS.

Thanks.

Hey dude, so any comments on the Legacy?

[emajnthis]

Hey dude, so any comments on the Legacy?

As far as i'm aware (since i was interested in doing the TT Legacy swap for awhile), the 2.0L twin turbo setup is good because the power output is fantastic and gives you a lot of power throughout the entire power band (very flat power curve, the AVCS on intake/exhaust probably helps with that too), it's bad because the block is open deck so you shouldn't push the boost or try to get too much more out of the motor.

The EJ25 turbo isn't quite as flat in the power band, but still remains punchy (which i think is assisted by its higher displacement, probably why they decided to go AVCS on intake only), it's advantage being that it has a semi-closed deck block so it can take more of a beating if you decide to push some boost out of it or upgrade turbo components.

The one thing i dislike about the flat motors in general is that the turbo setups are a mess of plumbing*, and whether it's single turbo or twin turbo the exhaust plumbing is retarded, i still feel a quick redesign of the heads from Subaru could fix that problem. The other problem you run into with the JDM swap (if you're USDM) is wiring is going to be a bear, otherwise, it's a matter of what you're preference is.

Regardless of which motor you get, first thing to do is help it breathe, get a turbo back exhaust, get rid of as many cats as possible, bigger intercooler, and high flow intakes. From there either motor should put down more than enough power to be satisfied. If i recall, the JDM EJ20 has a bunch of cats while the USDM has a crappy intercooler, but i could be mistaken.

*The twin turbo is about as good as it's going to get in this configuration which is basically a U shape from the exhaust manifolds back to the turbos behind the rear cylinders and then under the trans.

EDIT:

I hope we're talking about the same car since i'm unsure of which country you're in; I'm not sure if the JDM still uses the twin turbo setup (i think they do with the B5, but unsure of the other models in the lineup) or if they have gone to a single turbo like the USDM model and just uses a better turbo. In any case though, it should still be open deck block, the only ones that have semi-closed deck version of the EJ20's are the STI's and i think it's only the later model STI's (EJ205 and up), so in regards to the performance (whether twin turbo, or twin scroll single turbo) it should remain about the same (since the twin scrolls spool up faster by design).

Edited February 4, 2008 by emajnthis

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

*The twin turbo is about as good as it's going to get in this configuration which is basically a U shape from the exhaust manifolds back to the turbos behind the rear cylinders and then under the trans.

EDIT:

I hope we're talking about the same car since i'm unsure of which country you're in; I'm not sure if the JDM still uses the twin turbo setup (i think they do with the B5, but unsure of the other models in the lineup) or if they have gone to a single turbo like the USDM model and just uses a better turbo. In any case though, it should still be open deck block, the only ones that have semi-closed deck version of the EJ20's are the STI's and i think it's only the later model STI's (EJ205 and up), so in regards to the performance (whether twin turbo, or twin scroll single turbo) it should remain about the same (since the twin scrolls spool up faster by design).

I am actually in Singapore and the #$%! distributor only brings in the non-JDM spec 2.5 single AVCS single scroll. I can import a non-distributor 2.0 Dual AVCS Twin Scroll.

I think the current BL5 Legacy never had a twin-turbo in any guise. Only choice is between JDM twin-scroll and non-JDM 'single scroll'.

My dilemma is that I like the extra 500cc in displacement but not sure if its worth giving up the twin-scroll (not twin turbo) and Dual AVCS for it. I have the curves for the JDM 2.0T but I don't have the 2.5T graph to compare torque curves with (any chance you have it? The USDM 2.5T should be identical to what I have here since both do 250hp).

I know the JDM 2.0t is 276hp vs 250hp for the 2.5t but I am more concerned with the torque curve rather then that last fistful of horsepower at 5000-7500rpm.

Thanks!

Now I just have to find out WTF is open-deck and close-deck and whatnot.

[emajnthis]

I am actually in Singapore and the #$%! distributor only brings in the non-JDM spec 2.5 single AVCS single scroll. I can import a non-distributor 2.0 Dual AVCS Twin Scroll.

I think the current BL5 Legacy never had a twin-turbo in any guise. Only choice is between JDM twin-scroll and non-JDM 'single scroll'.

My dilemma is that I like the extra 500cc in displacement but not sure if its worth giving up the twin-scroll (not twin turbo) and Dual AVCS for it. I have the curves for the JDM 2.0T but I don't have the 2.5T graph to compare torque curves with (any chance you have it? The USDM 2.5T should be identical to what I have here since both do 250hp).

I know the JDM 2.0t is 276hp vs 250hp for the 2.5t but I am more concerned with the torque curve rather then that last fistful of horsepower at 5000-7500rpm.

Thanks!

Now I just have to find out WTF is open-deck and close-deck and whatnot.

I wasn't aware of that, it's actually better they just go to the twin scroll turbo (like the STI's) than stick with the twin turbo because the twin turbo setup on the Legacy's wasn't done in an efficient manner even if it did yield good results. I don't have a chart of the HP torque curves but i'm sure i could find it, IIRC the 2.5L STI's had more torque than the 2.0L JDM's but the curve was more peaked than flat, so i was basing my thoughts off of that comparison as opposed to the Legacy vs Legacy. Refreshed my knowledge on which ones are semi-closed and open decks, and it looks like the 05+ 2.5 (aka EJ255 EJ257) turbo models are semi closed deck and any JDM turbo EJ that isn't STI is open deck. I think in stock form the JDM model will offer better performance, but if you plan on doing a few performance upgrades i think the 2.5 turbo legacy will give you more reliable performance and you can always upgrade the turbo to something larger (VF-22) since you have the added displacement to make up for the low-end and mid range.

The term open, semi-closed, and closed deck block, in layman terms is the space between the cylinder bore and the block. I'm having trouble finding a proper photo, but if you take the head off of the EJ257 you won't be able to see straight through the block it'll look like it's partially blocked up at the bottom of each cylinder bore. The block partially closing off the bottom of each cylinder allows for extra reinforcement and helps prevent the block from warping/cracking which is especially useful in applications of force induction. Most aluminum block motors are semi-closed or closed deck, good example being the Turbocharged Duratec 2.0L, 2.3L and 2.5L that Ford/Mazda use and the EJ257 in the Subaru's.

Edited February 4, 2008 by emajnthis