Official - Weapons Banter Thread

[Mechamaniac]

Eek...........I just wet myself after seeing this: -

.50GI Cartridge.

&

Model 1 .50GI Pistol.

I'm not normally a 1911 fan, but this is enough to make me change my mind. Finally, a practical .50 pistol round.

Graham

Broken wrist anyone???

[bsu legato]

Damn, I need one of those. Too bad the $2895.00 price tag will keep me from doing something insane, like buying one.

[Amped]

Eek...........I just wet myself after seeing this: -

.50GI Cartridge.

&

Model 1 .50GI Pistol.

I'm not normally a 1911 fan, but this is enough to make me change my mind. Finally, a practical .50 pistol round.

Graham

That's like th elil' brother of the Beowulf .50!!!

But if there was a crowd favorite, it was the Beowulf.

Imagine one guy in the fire team carries an extra receiver in his pack, mere pounds considering the punch involved. If serious holes become necessary, any standard M-16 suddenly packs a wallop.

The Beowulf comes with a standard seven-round clip and has a three-round burst option. Though it looks like it should recoil with a mule kick, the weapon is surprisingly easy to manage.

"The biggest thing is the stopping power," said Hoar. "You can shoot the M-16 at a car all day and not stop it. I can stop anything with that. Get LeMas to give you the ammo that will go through anything and get Alexander Arms to give you the weapon and you're good."

...from http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/blackwater.html

More info here...

http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm

As the saying goes: "If you are going to make a hole, make it as big as possible"

[Opus]

Eek...........I just wet myself after seeing this: -

.50GI Cartridge.

&

Model 1 .50GI Pistol.

I'm not normally a 1911 fan, but this is enough to make me change my mind. Finally, a practical .50 pistol round.

Graham

"The concept was to create a practical .50 caliber 1911 without unnecessary bulk or weight, but with increased knock-down power. "

What the hell are they shooting at that .45 cal can't knock-down?

I'll be sticking my .454, thankyouverymuch.

[captain america]

I design guns and I can't believe I haven't noticed this thread until now

Anyone here into compact, concealed-carry pieces?

[1st Border Red Devil]

What the hell are they shooting at that .45 cal can't knock-down?

I dunno....an elephant?

Seriously...if you wanna feel power...live load a repro Brown Bess .69 smoothbore and fire it.

[Opus]

I design guns and I can't believe I haven't noticed this thread until now

Anyone here into compact, concealed-carry pieces?

I have a Glock 30 and a PPK and I love em both.

[Chowser]

I design guns and I can't believe I haven't noticed this thread until now

Anyone here into compact, concealed-carry pieces?

I currently carry a Glock 19 and HK USP Compact in .357 SIG as backups when I am working. One on each side of my vest.

off duty, I carry two Glock 33s in .357 SIG.

i usually carry these in either a dual shoulder-rig or in two fobus paddle holsters.

I am looking into getting the HK P2000 subcompact in .357 SIG when it comes out.

[captain america]

I design guns and I can't believe I haven't noticed this thread until now 

Anyone here into compact, concealed-carry pieces?

I currently carry a Glock 19 and HK USP Compact in .357 SIG as backups when I am working. One on each side of my vest.

off duty, I carry two Glock 33s in .357 SIG.

i usually carry these in either a dual shoulder-rig or in two fobus paddle holsters.

I am looking into getting the HK P2000 subcompact in .357 SIG when it comes out.

Hmm. Those are still fairly bulky pieces to carry. I always had a liking for the PPK, but it's a little bit large for a "modern" .380, and for that size, I'd definitely like something with a bit more stopping-power. Hopefully, what I've got in development will make concealed-carry a little more "concealable"; especially for everyday use.

Essentially, I've been working on a compact semi-auto chambered for 9mm. 5.6 inches in total length, 4" high, and 0.95" across grip & slide. Mag capacity:6 rounds... The best part is that it's DAO, but uses a slide-in trigger like a 1911, and a few other features that I can't really elaborate on... Yet.

[Opus]

My only real beef with compacts is mag capacity. The full 10 round mag was the main selling point of the Glock 30 for me. When I'm on the job I carry a large frame auto though. My old Taurus PT-99 is the most reliable gun I've ever owned.

Captain, you should definately let us know when your design goes into production. I'd get one just because it was designed by someone I vaguely know.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The only compact I own is my Glock 27. I opted for him because I prefer the .40 S&W to 9mm for that little extra punch it has. While I have no real beef with the magazine capacity of my subcompact pistol I fail to see why people like me (technically a civilian) who carry it purely for self defense between your office and the parking lot need more than 9 rounds in a single magazine. If you empty that magazine and have to do a change your are in over your head... hence why the big trend in the subcompacts for a while there was increasing the caliber at the sacrifice of the magazine capacity. I myself am thinking of trading in my 27 on a 36 just to upgrade to .45 ACP. Who needs the extra three rounds in the 27 magazine when you are using the most potent man stopper there is? The only other main argument for a civilian like me needing high capacity mags is "panic fire". The logic being if you are in a panic situation your first reaction is to pull and shoot until the mag is empty... but hell, that takes effort. In my CCW class that I re-took a few months back when missouri approved the CCW law, the first thing they taught you was the draw and double tap. Draw fast, get off two shots on target center mass and then run like a bunny. Almost all the times a common business-looking man like me will ever in the dreamiest dream even draw that weapon in public is when a lone mugger tries to pull something on you. If they are in pairs then you are pretty much screwed right there as a close combat engagement with 2 on 1 unless you are ricochet rabbit that second guy will shoot you before you have a chance to hit him after shooting his partner.

I always find it funny that the more I trained for civilian carry the more you see how pointless it really is. How many times in reality will that one singular situation raise it's head when you are the only one in a crowd with a weapon who can take down a bad situation? 1 in a million? 1 in a billion? Shoot, most of the people I know who got their CCW permits would get themselves and everyone else killed in a situation like that... and most people who get CCW permits let them lapse after the first year when they realize just as I do how pointless it is. Leave the law to the law and keep your big weapons (shotguns and other man splatterers) on hand for what they are intended, home defense. Statistically you have a better chance of being assaulted in your home than you do on the city streets.

[Mechamaniac]

Must be nice to be able to carry a concealed firearm.

I live in ultra democratic, ultra pc, ultra pussy Maryland, where they would rather you get your ass blown off by some random scumbag than be able to protect yourself.

Seriously, getting a permit around here takes nothing short of an act of god.

[captain america]

Hi Opus.

I was grappling with the issue of mag capacity during the design phase as well. The problem is, when you design a micro-compact, whether you go for single stack, or double-stack to get the 10 rounds, you compromise on compactness and concealability. My own take is that 6+1 rounds is more than adequate for a CC/backup weapon. If you need more rounds than that to take down an assailant or two, it's cos your aim is bad! LOL

Seriously though, for certain situations, nothing beats a full-size gun with the full 10 round mag. The good thing about designing something small, is that it's a lot easier to size-up afterwards, than the other way around.. If I play my cards right, hopefully I'll be able to offer both

[JsARCLIGHT]

Must be nice to be able to carry a concealed firearm.

I live in ultra democratic, ultra pc, ultra pussy Maryland, where they would rather you get your ass blown off by some random scumbag than be able to protect yourself.

Seriously, getting a permit around here takes nothing short of an act of god.

I may not think my carrying a gun will affect much of anything... but I will still carry it as soon as the SLCPD gives the go-ahead. After all, 1 in a million is still a percent change and I'd rather the loon in the crowd with the piece be me than some trigger happy nut. Plus the CCW law that passed here in missouri only got through due to a congressional (missouri congress, not federal) 2/3rds override of the governor and a popular vote.

I think the day it came out of the supreme court (due to the injunctions and lawsuits immediately brought by the "gun grabbers") I think I saw a anti gun person burst into flames out in the street.

[JsARCLIGHT]

And for Captain America:

Always nice to see an industry man in a forum I frequent. I know you can't say too much about your design but I hope you are not planning to include any "gimmick" features on the compact you are making. Things like accessory rails that some makers put on their subcompacts are just rediculous... cough cough XD cough cough. Who do they think is going to put a bulky ass illuminator on a pocket pistol?

Also my suggestions, take them however you will but I have found these things to be indispensable on carry firearms: A decocker (if it does not increase the size of the striker action... assuming you are making the gun "hammerless"), polygonal rifling (lasts longer but depending on barrel length it might not work... ok forget that one) and at least one finger groove to help grip the gun. If my 27 did not have those finger grooves that little guy would jump out of my grip in two shots... darn slippery glocks!

[Opus]

The nice thing about hi-cap mags is that you can under load them to conserve spring life and still carry a reasonable load. On my Taurus I only carry 10 rnds in a 15 round mag. The first bullet is rubber. The pschological effect of rubber bullets is amazing. It also helps to prove in court that you intent was not to kill.

Mechamaniac, you need to move a couple of mile south to good ol Virginia where all you have to do is complete a weekend safety course and that CCW permit is all yours. Unless you're an ex-con.

[Graham]

Broken wrist anyone??? 

Why would you get a broken wrist? At only 700fps - 900fps with 240gr - 300gr bullets, the 50GI should be real pussycat, as it's a fairly tame low pressure round.

And if much harder kicking cartridges like the .454Casul, .50AE etc don't produce a broken wrist, then I doubt the relatively wimpy .50GI will.

If you want to talk hard kicking, try full power .44 magnum loads through the 26 ounce S&W 329PD Scandium Frame, Stainless Steel Barrel, Titanium Cylinder revolver

Graham

[Graham]

"The concept was to create a practical .50 caliber 1911 without unnecessary bulk or weight, but with increased knock-down power. "

What the hell are they shooting at that .45 cal can't knock-down?

I'll be sticking my .454, thankyouverymuch.

Can't remember where the quote is from, maybe a movie, maybe an old Texas Ranger, but IIRC it goes something like this -

When asked why he carried a .45 for defence, he replied......"Cus they don't make a .50 yet"

Graham

[Graham]

The nice thing about hi-cap mags is that you can under load them to conserve spring life and still carry a reasonable load. On my Taurus I only carry 10 rnds in a 15 round mag.

Get rid of that Taurus and get yourself a Glock, SIG or H&K. When I used to work at a gun shop back in the mid 90s, I'd keep my mags loaded to full capacity (17rd for my G17 and 13rds for my G21) for several months at a time and go right and and shot them in competition without problems .

Graham

[captain america]

And for Captain America:

Always nice to see an industry man in a forum I frequent. I know you can't say too much about your design but I hope you are not planning to include any "gimmick" features on the compact you are making. Things like accessory rails that some makers put on their subcompacts are just rediculous... cough cough XD cough cough. Who do they think is going to put a bulky ass illuminator on a pocket pistol?

Also my suggestions, take them however you will but I have found these things to be indispensable on carry firearms: A decocker (if it does not increase the size of the striker action... assuming you are making the gun "hammerless"), polygonal rifling (lasts longer but depending on barrel length it might not work... ok forget that one) and at least one finger groove to help grip the gun. If my 27 did not have those finger grooves that little guy would jump out of my grip in two shots... darn slippery glocks!

Hi JS Arclight.

You'll be happy to know that my 9mm is fundamentally gimmick-free. There would be no use for a decocker, since there is no hammer whatsoever; the firing system is something completely new that I designed from scratch. Idiotically-simple, but rugged and reliable.

Though I can't elaborate on details, I can tell you a few things about it: the pistol is COMPLETELY ambidextrous, right out of the box: safety, mag release button and slide release are all designed so that you can use the gun with either hand without any fumbling whatsoever(ALL backup guns should be). Furthermore, I also incorporated a sighting system that is 100% snag-free, and yet makes aiming even easier and quicker than with normal sights.

You'll also be happy to know that the grip, which is minimised in thickness AND length(no extra room needed for a sear or main spring) sports finger indentations for maximum controllability. The safety also does double-duty, locking both the firing pin AND the trigger when not in use... Completely drop-safe.

Oh... Did I mention that it can do all this with a mere 41 total parts? That includes the sights, screws, and springs.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Or if you can strip out that stock spring and put in a Wolf spring or another aftermarket spring. The only gun I own that does not get full cap on it's mags are my AR's short magazines. 18 or less... and that is due to that lovely jamming and stovepiping issue.

As for the .50 pistol, it needs a lower price... but I think the price is more reflective of the low production numbers and the engineering that went into the gun. After all, shop Wilsons and Kimbers can cost that much. I myself prefer common ammo weapons, things I can go to walmart and buy five boxes of ammo on the way to the range for like $50. The frankencaliber and hand load weapons are nice but they just cost too much money for my tastes. You can get rather nasty .454 or a .45 LC revolver for under $600 nowadays so the lure of a big bore self-loader is not all that much for me.

Edit: Damn... sign me up for one of those Captain America subcompacts when they ship.

Edited July 1, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[CoryHolmes]

things I can go to walmart and buy five boxes of ammo

Buying boxes of ammo... in a WALMART?

Uhhh... room... spinning...

*Canucklehead passes out*

[JsARCLIGHT]

The ammo and the cheap milk are about the only things that can lure me into a Walmart. They sell Winchester .45 ACP and 9mm quite reasonably priced... or at least much cheaper than at the range. Hell, the Wally Worlds in my neck of the woods carry shotguns, hunting rifles and all manner of "common" long gun. One Wally World out in the sticks even carries Mini 14's and AR15's. The down side is they only carry common ammo and only in commercial packs. If you shoot anything that is not either ultra common or a hunting round they don't carry it... and everything only comes in 20 round (rifle) or 50 round (pistol) boxes. The only place cheaper than Wally World is a gun show where you can buy a metric ton of that shitty but reliable Wolf ammo for pennies on the round.

[Chowser]

i've had my 31 round mags for my Glock 19 loaded for 9 months now, I just shot them off today to vent some anger (tomorrow, I'm going to try out my new wakizashi on some mats with pictures of all my supervisors on them), and I had absolutely no feeding problems. my 15 + 2 mags have been loaded for a year, shot no problems, my 17+2 mag, fully loaded for 6 months, no probs. I use my 10 round mags for practice and qualification since we are only required to have 6 rounds, and I don't care if i dump these mags all over the place. the 10 rounders are my dedicated range mags. Now, the Scherer aftermarket 33 rnd mag I had was a piece of crap, i even put a new spring and follower in it and it still jammed all the time. i got rid of that within a month.

my HK mags (12 rnds) have been fully loaded for over a year, I shot them all off today too with no problems.

My duty mags on my Glock 22 have been fully loaded since January and all shot fine today as well. Now the battery on the laser is dead...

I didn't shoot the 33s since I started running low on .357 ammo. gotta tell the dept. to order me some more.

The only problems I had were some rounds not shooting because we are using lead-free CHEAP reloads where the primers sometimes need to be hit twice, but we can't do that with a Glock, so out they go. But that's not a mag problem, so as far as I'm concerned, factory mags work fine.

My first guns were a Taurus PT-99 and Beretta 92F. The Taurus was basically a piece of crap, liked the Beretta much better. Got rid of both of them when I bought my Glock 19.

[Chowser]

forgot to mention, my duty mags in the Glock have extra power springs.

guess that's not factory. i did add +2 baseplates to all of them, hence the extra power springs, come to think of it, all my Glock mags (except the 10 rounders, 19 rounder and 31 rounders) have extra power springs + extended baseplates.

Guess that's not really factory, but the 31 rounders perform flawlessly.

wish the dept. would let me get the FSSG mod for it.

any shoot S&W's .500 Magnum yet?

Also, what's everyone carrying these days in their guns?

I wanted to carry a full mag of rubber bullets in my Glock 19 so if someone started running from me, I could just shoot a full mag of rubber bullets at them to slow them down, I was told no, we're getting TASERs soon. Whatever, I still think it would be more fun with rubber bullets. Remember, if you make the popo come and get you, we're bringing an ass kicking with us.

Also, what's everyone carrying these days in their guns?

at work, I carry:

1 mag (the one in the gun) of Black Talon (we're almost out of this, the dept. stockpiled this ammo back in the day, but it's running out now).

1 mag staggered with Federal HydraShok (180 gr) and Federal HST (165 gr)

1 mag staggered with Winchester Ranger SXT (180 gr) and Federal HST (165 gr).

that's all the dept. allows us to carry on our duty stuff.

with our back-ups, it's got to be something commerically available if our dept. doesn't supply it, no homemade stuff.

my .357 SIG ammo is all Corbon ammo, 115 gr.

my 9mm ammo is a mixture of Aguila, Federal Hydrashok +P+ (124 gr), Corbons, and some leftover Black Talons.

i really want to try taking some 9mm Aguila rounds, removing the bullet, and reloading it in .357 SIG to see what type of velocities I could get...

[Chowser]

that shitty but reliable Wolf ammo for pennies on the round.

what's up with the Wolf ammo? we were told not to shoot it through our Glocks by someone when we were in Armorer's School, but I never had a chance to ask why.

Is it because Wolf ammo is made for, I dunno, desert use, or firing from open bolts?

[Opus]

I hear people say Taurus guns are junk all day long and I've seen some that are real crap but I must have lucked out because mine is great. My grandfather bought it new in 85 and it sat in his closed unfired until 96 when he gave it to me along with the rest of his guns. I've put several thousand rounds through it with no problems as long as I use factory mags, which I have a whole shoebox full of. Granted I've replaced the barrel and those crappy sights with fiberoptics. I used to keep a full 15 in my mags but I really don't need that many and I guess I'm just overly cautious due to the increasing age of it all.

It's actually kinda funny, when I took it to a gunsmith to get new sights he laughed and told me I was wasting my money. When I went to pick it up after the work was done he said "I can't believe this is a Taurus, you wanna sell it?"

[Chowser]

85? maybe that's why you lucked out, it was an older Taurus. When did Taurus buy that factory from Beretta? anyone?

My Taurus was from, hmmm...I used it in the academy, must be 1997 when I got it. I kept getting dirt in the big hole of the safety lever, and my red dot on my safety fell out. My adjustable sights would adjust themselves all day long, it got so bad, I just point shooted my way through the firearms course. Got so good at it, I actually won Top Gun in that class.

I used to have 18 rd Ram Line mags, they didn't work too well. I wonder if Beretta mags will fit your old Taurus? Can you buy new springs from Taurus?

Then again, try to use Taurus' Lifetime Warranty, tell them your springs are going and you need new ones, doesn't hurt to try.

Anyone know if I can still get the old Glock 9mm followers for hi-cap mags for my prebans? I think they say 9mm3 on them.

Anyone seen anyone shooting a Glock underwater? Or know where I can find some vids? I have the maritime cups for my Glock, but I refuse to even try it since I have absolutely no idea what I am doing. And I think some people at the beach wouldn't like it either. I don't recommend anyone trying this.

[JsARCLIGHT]

what's up with the Wolf ammo? we were told not to shoot it through our Glocks by someone when we were in Armorer's School, but I never had a chance to ask why.

Is it because Wolf ammo is made for, I dunno, desert use, or firing from open bolts?

Wolf is just really dirty and some say possibly corrosive soviet bloc surplus ammo. I shoot it as plinking ammo when I just want to tear through the rounds and not spend a whole lot on ammo that goes like poop through a goose. Another reason people do not recommend you use Wolf ammo is because of the laquered steel cases it uses. I keep hearing that that laquer burns itself off onto your breach after a certain amount of time if you don't regularly clean your weapon and it can cause misfeeds and jams... especially in weapons with gnat's ass tight tollerances. Plus, and this is just a personal issue with Wolf, the ammo stinks. I mean it smells. Fire off a mag of Wolf ammo and tell me that the cordite does not smell really, really raunchy. Those Russians must put some chemical mix in that powder that has one part ass because when enough Wolf rounds go off they start to stink up the place... to the point that your eyes and nose burn and start to water.

As for the Glock followers I see the mag bodies from time to time in Shotgun news. I have never really looked for the followers. My guess would be they would be available on some level as "replacement parts". A lot of makers don't like to sell preban mag parts as they have a nasty tendancy to not be used as replacement parts but rather used to manufacture illegal post ban high caps. I can do some looking before I head out on vacation this next week.

And Chowser, are those high caps you have for your Glock factory or are they the Scherrer (sp?) after market mags? I have two Scherrer 29 round mags for my 27. They are almost a foot long and make that little bean look like an SMG at the range... besides adding like a pound and a half to it's weight. Those Scherrer mags are great... just as good if not better than factory. I know a guy who has a SF Glock 18 with a few of the 9mm Scherrer mags and they run flawlessly.

[bsu legato]

things I can go to walmart and buy five boxes of ammo

Buying boxes of ammo... in a WALMART?

Uhhh... room... spinning...

*Canucklehead passes out*

Psst.....Canadian Wal Marts sell ammunition too.

[bsu legato]

Also, what's everyone carrying these days in their guns?

Well....I wouldn't say I'm carrying it, but lately I've been shooting some home-rolled .45 ACP 200 gr Semi Wadcutters for my Norinco plinko 1911A1. I picked up a box of 1000 locally cast bullets, and I've committed myself to using them all up by the end of the summer. Practice, practice, practice...

Of course, that will all change in the next week or so when my 1851 Navy shows up at the dealer!

[captain america]

Shooting a glock underwater? Without the special compensator PROPERLY installed, you might as well just chop your hand off with a meat cleaver... Nowhere near as messy as letting the exploding gun do it for ya

I've done some research on glocks, and apparently the.40 has a nasty little habit of exploding on you if you should be unfortunate enough to get a bad shell-casing on the round you're firing.

This guy seems to echo my sentiments...

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/no_glocks.htm

This is not to say that I think glocks are bad guns; my biggest beef with them is that they're just horribly unattractive

[Chowser]

i have factory 31 rd mags for my Glock. I had a Scherer mag, but I just got not get it to work right. the original spring was all rusty and bent funny, so i put a new spring in it (with the backup springs i bought for the factory mags), and it still wouldn't feed right, i put a new follower in it, and i had less problems, but i still had problems no matter what type of ammo i used. it would alsos stop feeding after 20 rounds.

i'm not too worried about getting the followers, just on one of the mags, it doesn't lock the slide back anymore, but i rarely shoot this anymore since I got the .357s. My brother is thinking of buying my 19 off me, but then I will probably get a 26 since I have to keep all my hi-cap mags since I can't give them to him, except for the 19 rd preban (17+2baseplate).

Ammo that stinks, haha, that's funny. Guess I will stay away from them.

and yes, i too think glocks are kinda ugly, someone on my department once said, it's like looking over the side of a garbage can when i'm shooting.

but so far, we've had no explosions using our reloads. the only problem we had is some knucklehead breaking the recoil rod.

crap, gotta go get lunch for the family since there is nothing in the fridge,

see ya all later.

it's always something when i'm on here, i think my wife is going to try to prevent me from going to any website with macross in it's name.

[Mechamaniac]

  someone on my department once said, it's like looking over the side of a garbage can when i'm shooting.

LOL, I used to say almost the same thing.

Looking down the barrel of a .45 or 10MM Glock is like looking down the deck of an aircraft carrier, all wide and flat!.

Glocks are hideous guns, but they are functional as all get out. I remember an article I read umpteen years ago about a torture test a guy did on a Glock, and it was immense.

He fired 100,000 rounds through it as fast as humanly possible.

He had like 5 guys going, one firing, the other four reloading.

When it got too hot to hold, he would throw it in a bucket of water to cool off while they reloaded.

At one point, he took the bucket, and placed it in a freezer overnight, then took the solid block of ice and smashed it on the ground the next day before the test continued.

He threw it in a bucket of sand every now and again.

He parked the wheel of his truck on the thing as it lay on concrete.

The ONLY maintenance he did at all was at the 50,000 round mark, he lubed the slide rails.

I wish I could remember which magazine it was in, he had pictures of each of the torture tests, and the Glock sailed right through them all.

Personally though, I can't stand them, they are BUFUGLY, and unless I was issued one, I would never spend my own cash on one. I'd much rather sink my coin into a nice pretty Sig Sauer.

Hey Chowser, what ever happened with that H&K P7 you were going to try to "liberate"

Edited July 1, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Chowser]

Hey Chowser, what ever happened with that H&K P7 you were going to try to "liberate"

it wasn't worth it, seems whoever had it destroyed it before it got turned it, the mags are fine, so I kept them. Now I've got to decide when I can afford to get one. I've got the HK P2000 subcompact to get when it comes out in .357 SIG, and I've got one more sword to buy (which is going to cost more than a new P7!)