Official - Weapons Banter Thread

[bsu legato]

I was tempted to spend the night with my Navy last week, but that's just becuase I'm sick in the head.

[valkyrietestpilot]

do it,do it,come on, do it bsu legato.do it cause that's what Josie Wales would do.

[Chowser]

ok, thanks, that's what i needed to know, i really don't need to buy any full-auto weapons for myself (can't really see the need), I've got the G36 and UMP from work that I don't own, so if I want to play, I can play at work. I just thought it would be fun to have one of my own, but then, I rarely have time to go plinking anymore.

if i ever do feel the urge, i'll call ya

I usually sleep with my HK USP Compact or my Glock 19, it's in a nightstand next to the bed, I figured, by the time someone could break in and make their way upstairs, I should be awake enough by then (plenty of booby traps along the way, my little girl likes to leaves toys all over the place, and if my cats don't recognize you, they start to attack). Right now, I am sleeping with my Benelli M1 Super 90 as the HK and Glock are out of service getting the slides refinished.

[valkyrietestpilot]

yeah chowser,you've always been able to buy an automatic weapon(especially if you are a policeman or government agent),the ban didn't affect that.you just had to go to a class 3 gun dealer & pay major coin & do major paper work to get your ar-15 or mp-5.the ban just affected certain aspects of popular "assault weapons".no bayonet mounts,high capacity mags,they didn't like pistol grips for some reason either.the ban seem to be really singling out the AK-47,but it doesn't state that exactly.the rules for owning a "legal" AK were just dumb.changed stocks,grips & no bayonet lug didn't make an already non-automatic rifle any less lethal.just made it look funny.my dad faced kalishnikovs in the jungle of vietnam & i'm really after that exact particular model cause of it's roll that it played in that part of history.they look pretty cool hanging on the wall with that bayonet fixed too

Edited September 12, 2004 by valkyrietestpilot

[JsARCLIGHT]

I have my G21 in my nightstand with one of those combi-mags in it. Only I and my wife know the combination. Every other piece of hardware is downstairs in the basement area in a gunsafe locked behind several tumblers and bolts. If someone breaks in a .45 is all I need to defend the house. If war is declared however then the gunsafe swings wide.

[bsu legato]

If war is declared however then the gunsafe swings wide.

...and may God have mercy on whomever has pissed you off.

[1st Border Red Devil]

About the Assault Weapon Ban....

just to let some of you know how DUMB it is...I do believe that the M-1 Carbine Paratrooper Model fell under the ban because it had: a folding stock, bayonet lug and a high capacity magazine: 10, 15 or 30 rounds.

Would someone please explain to me WHY a weapon that was 50 yrs old at the point of the original ban (now over 60) is considered too dangerous for civilians to rightfully own when we have SWAT Teams with MP-5s and M-16s? I would love to hear the logic that states this weapon is somehow responsible for enough crimes in the United States to warrant it being banned. More people are killed EVERY DAY with baseball bats and knives. The ban on 'assault weapons' was stupid.

Its interesting to note that the 3rd Reich under Adolf Hitler passed the first gun control laws in order to have a safer country that could be the model of modern Europe.

Edited September 13, 2004 by 1st Border Red Devil

[JsARCLIGHT]

While the M1 paratrooper may be an old weapon it still possesses the same killing capacity as any other magazine fed semiautomatic weapon like an AK or an AR. Age of design has nothing to do with it, the Thompson M1 SMG is still one of the premier weapons in it's class and it outdates the M1 carbine by a good 20 years plus. The M1 carbine was also not exclusively fielded in WW2, it was used extensively in the Korean Conflict and Vietnam (it's small size and light weight being ideal for the shorter stature Vietnamese fighters the US was training).

No one can say the AWB was not a flawed piece of legislation but the one thing they can say is that it was none too discriminating when it outlined what was and was not an "assault weapon"... those words in and of themselves being an double entendre. Assault Weapon, assault meaning to attack and weapon meaning an impliment you use to attack. Technically every firearm can be an assault weapon... all that differentiates a weapon you use to assault things and a weapon you use to hang towels or hold down papers is the capacity you use it in. Use an AR15 to shoot targets and it is a target rifle, use a MP5 to keep your tax papers from blowing away and it is a paperweight.

[Noriko Takaya]

At the moment of my post: 48 minutes and counting until the end. Good-bye AWB. And good riddance to you.

[Noriko Takaya]

Its interesting to note that the 3rd Reich under Adolf Hitler passed the first gun control laws in order to have a safer country that could be the model of modern Europe.

Yes, it is also interesting to note that once Hitler had all guns under lock and key that there was a wave of murder and mayhem the likes of which had never been seen before in that time of history. His cronie, Heinrich Himmler loved to say this about gun ownership: "Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State." The father, or should I say fuehrer, of all gun control was also the father of all mass murderers of the 20th century. Hitler, and a hand full of other despots are reasons enough why there should always be an armed civilian populace.

Okay now, no more politics. Go out and buy that evil looking black rifle you have always wanted. And have fun learning how to shoot it safely and legally.

35 minutes and counting...

[Chowser]

COOL.

does this mean that I can disregard all my mags marked LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY and can consider them normal capacity magazines now?

now how would this work if i wanted to sell one of my guns, when I bought these mags, I had to fill out paperwork stating that the hi-capacity ammunition feeding devices (yes, that is how I had to word my letters) would not be resold and will be used for duty-related use.

I didn't buy the guns with a letter, just the mags.

[JsARCLIGHT]

To my understanding any device, part or weapon stamped "Law Enforcement Only" must remain in that capacity for the remainder of it's life unless written permission is received from the BATF stating the weapon or magazine can be sold to non LEO personnel legally and said letter or permission form must be present at all times with the equipment when sold. I have seen several weapon receivers (mainly of the AR ilk) that were built as LEO only lowers only to be retasked by the BATF as civilian legal receivers. The catch is that they had to have a permission letter from the BATF to be sold in that capacity and that letter had to accompany the receiver at all times for legal reasons. The same is true of any material stamped "Property of the US Government".

More info on LEO mags will most likely trickle out in the following weeks. Everyone needs to remember that the ban ends today but the actual effect that will have on all the nuances of law it created for 10 years may not be fully understood for some time still. When in doubt about Federal weapons regulations go right to the source and ask the horse: call your local BATF office and ask.

[Commander McBride]

I really wish I didn't live in this state....

Here's something interesting: Pistols outnumber Shotguns 10:1 in gun murders. Rifles are such a distant third that a meaningful statistic isn't worth noting, somewhere below 5 percent. Out of those, how many do you think were "assault weapons"? 10 percent at most? So, we ban weapons because they're used in 0.5% of gun murders? Or, even better, something like 0.27% of all murders?

[Chowser]

just found it:

There are no longer any marking requirements for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use may be disregarded.

Towards the End

ATF Main Site

[Max Jenius]

OH NOES!!111!! DRIVE BY BAYONETTINGS WILL SKYROCKET AGAIN!!!

[Opus]

Someone robbed a bank last week with a pitchfork. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they ban those too.

[Commander McBride]

Haha, imagine a pitchfork with LEO markings stamped into it!

[bsu legato]

OH NOES!!111!! DRIVE BY BAYONETTINGS WILL SKYROCKET AGAIN!!!

Hey! My uncle was shot with a venthilated handguard!

[Commander McBride]

But...seriously..... I'm worried! How will we know where the shots are coming from, now that we have..... FLASH HIDERS?!!!!?!?

Edited September 13, 2004 by Commander McBride

[Max Jenius]

I'm going to invent a propane powered baseball bat gun with a 31 round mag! ... or maybe a bowie knife launcher!

More entertaining than baseball!(not that its hard to be)

[Mechamaniac]

When in doubt about Federal weapons regulations go right to the source and ask the horse: call your local BATF office and ask.

Yeah, and get added to their list of nee'r do wells, miscreants, and revolutionaries who dare question their authority.

That way, they can surround your house one day, and shoot you without probable cause!!

Edited September 13, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Opus]

I'm going to invent a propane powered baseball bat gun with a 31 round mag! ... or maybe a bowie knife launcher!

More entertaining than baseball!(not that its hard to be)

Don't make fun of baseball or I'll bayonet you!

[Opus]

When in doubt about Federal weapons regulations go right to the source and ask the horse: call your local BATF office and ask.

Yeah, and get added to their list of nee'r do wells, miscreants, and revolutionaries who dare question their authority.

That way, they can surround your house one day, and shoot you without probable cause!!

You sound like my dad. He seriously thinks that the CIA is watching him.

[bsu legato]

You sound like my dad. He seriously thinks that the CIA is watching him.

It's not a question of you being paranoid, but are you paranoid enough?

[VF19]

Yah, cause you see so many drive-by bayonettings.

[JsARCLIGHT]

You sound like my dad. He seriously thinks that the CIA is watching him.

Well if his name is Faruk Aziz Mohamed or something of that ilk he might be right... I was thinking of changing my name to something of the middle eastern nature just to watch the "flower delivery vans" and "ups trucks" stay parked out front of my home every day.

Flowers

By

Irene

Edit: and just to be even cuter...

Ding dong the ban is dead! Which old ban? The assault weapon ban! Ding dong the A-W-B is dead!

And to be even cuter than that, here are some things overheard in our office today:

- "did you hear that assault rifle ban ended? Yeah now people can buy machine guns again"

- "I bet the terrorists ran out to the gun stores today"

and my personal favorite...

- "I bet the hicks and bumpkins are having parties all over the heartland tonight"

Edited September 14, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Noriko Takaya]

NEWS FLASH! Because the AWB has finally went were it belonged, down the toilet, I just heard that gun sales have suddenly skyrocketed, and the ban isn't officially over until midnight tonight. I know I have contributed; I am going to pre-order my M4 tomorrow with the collapsable tele-stock, flash compensator, and bayonet lug. However, the ban on 30 rounders in Maryland is still in effect. It's a state law. I will go out of state to get more just like I did last time.

[Noriko Takaya]

When in doubt about Federal weapons regulations go right to the source and ask the horse: call your local BATF office and ask.

You know, while I was in On Target (gun store and shooting range in Maryland) during my lunch break looking around, I just happened to ask the owner a few questions regarding regulations, and he told me that the state police and sometimes even the feds will come and ask them about certain codes or what kind of a gun or rifle they have found. Seems like the gun shop owners know more about the laws than the guys who are supposed to enforce them.

[Commander McBride]

Can't say it enough times, I HATE California.....

It's too bad I like LA.

[Noriko Takaya]

Here ya go, you gun loving nuts you...

CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004

RELATING TO

SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs)

AND

LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs)

GENERAL

As of September 13, 2004, the provisions of Public Law 103-322, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, covering semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices are no longer in effect. The regulations implementing these provisions also are no longer in effect.

Specifically, there is no longer a Federal prohibition on the manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

There are no longer any marking requirements for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use may be disregarded.

There is no longer any Federal requirement for Federal firearms licensees to obtain certain documentation before transferring semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to government agencies or law enforcement officers. However, any records obtained prior to September 13, 1994, pertaining to the sale or transfer of semiautomatic assault weapons must still be retained for a period of 5 years. See 27 CFR § 478.129(f). Moreover, records of importation and manufacture must be maintained permanently and licensees must maintain all other acquisition and disposition records for 20 years.

Licensees who provided letters of future intent to sell semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to law enforcement agencies and other qualified customers are no longer obligated to comply with such letters.

Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time.

IMPORTATION

The prohibition on the importation of non-sporting firearms under 18 U.S.C. section 922(l) and 925(d)(3) still applies.

Importation of large capacity ammunition feeding devices still is covered under the Arms Export Control Act. Therefore an approved permit still is required to import large capacity magazines.

Temporary importation of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity magazines is now lawful under the provisions of 27 CFR § 478.115(d) because temporary importations are not subject to the sporting purpose test.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to the assault weapon ban should comply with the restriction because the weapons most likely are non-sporting.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to large capacity ammunition feeding devices may disregard the restriction. Importers may apply for a new permit if they prefer.

ASSEMBLY OF NON-SPORTING SHOTGUNS AND SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES FROM IMPORTED PARTS

The prohibition on assembly of non-sporting shotguns and semiautomatic rifles from imported parts as provided under 18 U.S.C. § 922® and 27 CFR § 478.39 still applies.

SENTENCING ENHANCEMENTS

The sentencing enhancements for using semiautomatic assault weapons in a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime no longer are in effect. Similarly, the sentencing enhancements for semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines no longer are in effect.

LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS

Law enforcement officers and police departments who obtained semiautomatic assault weapons are no longer required to use such firearms only for official use.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer large capacity ammunition feeding devices to anybody.

Signed statements that semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices will be used for official use are no longer required to be provided to Federal firearms licensees.

RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS

Federal law does not prohibit retiring law enforcement officers from keeping semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

Former law enforcement officers who received semiautomatic assault weapons on retirement may now transfer those firearms to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms. Transfer of large capacity ammunition feeding devices is no longer restricted.

NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT

All provisions of the National Firearms Act relating to registration and transfer of machineguns, short barreled rifles, weapons made from rifles, short barreled shotguns, weapons made from shotguns, any other weapons as defined in Title 26 U.S.C. section 5845(e), silencers, and destructive devices still apply.

Registered silencers can now be attached to semiautomatic rifles and pistols without creating a prohibited semiautomatic assault weapon.

USAS-12 and Striker12/Streetsweeper shotguns are still classified as destructive devices under ATF Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 and must be possessed and transferred in accordance with the NFA.

EFFECT ON STATE LAW

Expiration of the Federal law will not change any provisions of State law or local ordinances. Questions concerning State assault weapons restrictions should be referred to State and local authorities.

Hope this helps.

[Noriko Takaya]

Well, it's official. My Bushie is off to the factory to have those evil cosmetic extras added onto it. We'll wait to see how much this is going to cost me in the end run. When I get it back I'll take pictures so you can 'ooh' and 'ahh' over the evil features.

As for the M4, I will hold off for a few months. It seems that Bushmaster, who is the only AR manufacturer selling complete remodeled rifles right now, only has an M4 with a brake still attached to the barrel instead of an actual flash suppressor. Dammit, I want that flash suppressor.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Why not just buy a Bushie lower and kit and make your own? I've built every AR I own and when you make it yourself you just love it that much more.

I mean, AR's are about as simple to put together as legos, I can walk you though it if you need help.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Hopefully I'll be able to get an M-1 Carbine in the next year that wont cost me an arm and a leg.....maybe even a Paratrooper Model!

[Noriko Takaya]

Why not just buy a Bushie lower and kit and make your own? I've built every AR I own and when you make it yourself you just love it that much more.

I mean, AR's are about as simple to put together as legos, I can walk you though it if you need help.

I may do just that. However, Bushmaster still hasn't updated their site well enough to get everything on it. They still have lowers listed with that godawful fixed telestock.

I can get the 16" carbine barrel with the birdcage suppressor, but it doesn't have the bayonet lug. And the barrel is not a M4 type. I may want to get that Class III license and buy the M203. Hell, at about $1000 for a round of HE, I think it'll be worth it for a wonderful 4th of July celebration. (I know I probably can't get HE rounds, but ya gotta love those 40mm shotgun shells.)

All in all, I know I have to stick with the 16" barrel length set by the BATF, but I want the M4 barrel because it looks 'cool'. And I want it to just piss my neighbors off. And I may take you up on the offer of helping me build my AR. I know a little about stripping my rifle like every good grunt does, but I was not an armorer, and I have fumbly fingers.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I've built so many ARs for myself and my friends that I might as well be an armorer now. Ask any questions you need to.

As to your M4 dilema I have a thought that you might want to explore. There is a guy I know in Florida called Kurt who runs a shop called KKF (Kurt's Kustom Firearms). H specially makes a 2.25" flash suppressor that appears to be an elongated A2 birdcage that he can perminantly pin onto the 14.5" M4 barrel to get the BATF legal 16" but it keeps the 14.5" barrel and has the illusion of being much shorter. Kurt does super kickass custom brakes and suppressors and I own a few of his pieces. Follow this link to his site: KKF

As for your M203 dilema have you ever just wanted the look of a thumper without the paperwork or hassle? DPMS sells a "replica" M203 launcher for $200 that is a dead nuts correct M203, just with a dummy trigger. I have one and it is a dead ringer for the real deal just that it is DOR rather than live. It is indistiguishable from a real M203... the levers work, the tube opens and everything. The only wiener is that the trigger is fixed and it has no hammer or guts inside, plus the barrel is a smoothbore stepdown incapable of chambering a round. A real life M203 is a bank bleeder waiting to happen, because acording to BATF regs not only do you have to pay the $200 stamp tax and fill out a form 4 for the launcher itself but you also have to do so for each round you purchase for it. The 40mm rounds themselves are considered to be DD's just like the tube. A real pisser unless you are Daddy Warbucks.