Can A Valkrie Really Wear Zentradi Clothes?

[peter]

I was just thinking about that episode where Max knocks out the Zen and takes his clothes....isn't a valk a little too big to fit into those clothes? Anyone got a size comparison between a Valk and a soldier?

[evirus]

I was just thinking about that episode where Max knocks out the Zen and takes his clothes....isn't a valk a little too big to fit into those clothes?  Anyone got a size comparison between a Valk and a soldier?

390929[/snapback]

well, the zentradi arnt in the business of custom fit uniforms and what not so im sure most soldiers have a little baggage in their cloths, at a minimum i think a valk would be able to wear it like a robe or trenchcoat (that would be a cool sight by the way) my only doughts is fitting over the sholders, other then that it should be in the clear

[1 VF-1 2NV]

Isn't a zentradi larger than a valk ?

[evirus]

Isn't a zentradi larger than a valk ?

390931[/snapback]

oh of corse there was a size chart posted in the fan art section.... let me look

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...

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according from the size chart the valk is a around a foot taller(eye estimate) but a lot beefier then the standard zentradi http://www.geocities.com/johnston_portfoli...echascale2.html (pop-up ads)

[JB0]

Only way it'd work is if Max jumped a "high-ranking" zentradi, like Britai. They're about Valk size.

It'd still be a pretty bad fit, and probably wouldn't work.

[myk]

It can, and it did. Just be thankful they didn't show the fighter putting on the soldier's underwear...

[Cabbit Commando]

Technically if you look at the size chart & the general build of the Valk the answer is NO, a Valk shouldn't fit into a Zentradi uniform.

However it LOOKED FREAKING COOL in the tv series & Max was the one who did it, so he gets to get away with it.

In anime remember, never let physics & such get in the way if it looks cool!

[evirus]

prehaps it was a problem of detail, im sure that he would get it on but there would be a lot of taring and what not, remember that max is eventualy discovered as being a valk and not a zentradi soldier

[JB0]

prehaps it was a problem of detail, im sure that he would get it on but there would be a lot of taring and what not, remember that max is eventualy discovered as being a valk and not a zentradi soldier

391015[/snapback]

And he never should've passed for one.

Really... wouldn't you guys notice if you walked by someone with his collar pulled up real high, his hat pulled down low, and a big green glass plate where his face should be?

[evirus]

prehaps it was a problem of detail, im sure that he would get it on but there would be a lot of taring and what not, remember that max is eventualy discovered as being a valk and not a zentradi soldier

391015[/snapback]

And he never should've passed for one.

Really... wouldn't you guys notice if you walked by someone with his collar pulled up real high, his hat pulled down low, and a big green glass plate where his face should be?

391041[/snapback]

well they are devoid of culture, how often would they look at each other objectivly?

[Zentrandude]

prehaps it was a problem of detail, im sure that he would get it on but there would be a lot of taring and what not, remember that max is eventualy discovered as being a valk and not a zentradi soldier

391015[/snapback]

And he never should've passed for one.

Really... wouldn't you guys notice if you walked by someone with his collar pulled up real high, his hat pulled down low, and a big green glass plate where his face should be?

391041[/snapback]

well they are devoid of culture, how often would they look at each other objectivly?

391046[/snapback]

As big-G may say long time in sea or space duty anything with an heartbeat looks good.

[memnon]

I kinda felt forry for Hikaru and Misa flapping around in the shirt pocket while in Gerwalk mode.

[Roy Focker]

The average Zentradi is not bigger than a Valk.

A Valk can't fit into a Regult like an average Zentradi.

The use of a disguise as one of the enemy to conduct a rescue mission is just a common theme. To believe Max could do it you had to scretch your imagination a little.

[Phalanx]

If I recall some statistcial data about the average Zentraedi, I hear that they are about 35-40 feet tall compared to the VF-1 Battroid mode height which is 47 feet tall. Therefore I believe that some VF'S can wear Zentraudi clothes depending on their battloid height but putting on clothes is a rather hard thing to do since you have to move the control levers that move the arms in an intricate fashion to put on the clothes.

[JB0]

If I recall some statistcial data about the average Zentraedi, I hear that they are about 35-40 feet tall compared to the VF-1 Battroid mode height which is 47 feet tall.

Compendium says Zenmtradi are about 5 times the average human. That's more along the lines of 25-30 feet than 35-40.

The 2 zentradi characters with heights listed are Millia and Britai.

She's about 28, and he's 44 and a half. He's also notably bigger than the men under his command.

VF-1's height in battroid mode is 12.68 meters, which works out to 41.6 feet.

One of Robotech's major statistical deviations is that the average zentradi is 40-ish. This comes from assuming Britai is of average height. This makes Max's costuming stunt a lot more workable in Robotech, though the clothes would still hang quite wrong on the battroid's body.

Therefore I believe that some VF'S can wear Zentraudi clothes depending on their battloid height

I hope you meant depending on the zentradi's height, as all VF-1s are built to the exact same specification.

but putting on clothes is a rather hard thing to do since you have to move the control levers that move the arms in an intricate fashion to put on the clothes.

391192[/snapback]

Legs and torso too.

But it's a common theme for mech anime, and one of the more common suspensions of reality that come with the genre. A couple of joysticks and foot pedals is enough to create any motion you may need, and to do it intuitively as well.

Roboetch's novelizations excuse this with a neural interface(much like MacPlus's YF21 does), but this doesn't fit the animation(and in the Macross universe Plus makes it chronologically impossible).

Edited April 14, 2006 by JB0

[evirus]

If I recall some statistcial data about the average Zentraedi, I hear that they are about 35-40 feet tall compared to the VF-1 Battroid mode height which is 47 feet tall.

Compendium says Zenmtradi are about 5 times the average human. That's more along the lines of 25-30 feet than 35-40.

The 2 zentradi characters with heights listed are Millia and Britai.

She's about 28, and he's 44 and a half. He's also notably bigger than the men under his command.

VF-1's height in battroid mode is 12.68 meters, which works out to 41.6 feet.

One of Robotech's major statistical deviations is that the average zentradi is 40-ish. This comes from assuming Britai is of average height. This makes Max's costuming stunt a lot more workable in Robotech, though the clothes would still hang quite wrong on the battroid's body.

Therefore I believe that some VF'S can wear Zentraudi clothes depending on their battloid height

I hope you meant depending on the zentradi's height, as all VF-1s are built to the exact same specification.

but putting on clothes is a rather hard thing to do since you have to move the control levers that move the arms in an intricate fashion to put on the clothes.

391192[/snapback]

Legs and torso too.

But it's a common theme for mech anime, and one of the more common suspensions of reality that come with the genre. A couple of joysticks and foot pedals is enough to create any motion you may need, and to do it intuitively as well.

Roboetch's novelizations excuse this with a neural interface(much like MacPlus's YF21 does), but this doesn't fit the animation(and in the Macross universe Plus makes it chronologically impossible).

391260[/snapback]

well how about this.... prehaps there are certain preset motions trigured by gestures that the pilot inputs, if the valk has any desplay screen modes like modern fighter jets im sure there would be a way to start mapping out a new motion, but it might be a little time consuming to do in the middle of a battle

[JB0]

But it's a common theme for mech anime, and one of the more common suspensions of reality that come with the genre. A couple of joysticks and foot pedals is enough to create any motion you may need, and to do it intuitively as well.

Roboetch's novelizations excuse this with a neural interface(much like MacPlus's YF21 does), but this doesn't fit the animation(and in the Macross universe Plus makes it chronologically impossible).

391260[/snapback]

well how about this.... prehaps there are certain preset motions trigured by gestures that the pilot inputs, if the valk has any desplay screen modes like modern fighter jets im sure there would be a way to start mapping out a new motion, but it might be a little time consuming to do in the middle of a battle

391293[/snapback]

It still requires training.

Remember a completely untrained Hikaru picking Minmay up with a damaged GERWALK? "Beginner's skill" is a common staple of the genre.

And I doubt Max could program a "put on a uniform that doesn't quite fit" routine in a reasonable amount of time. Then the touch where he reached up and pulled the hat down low as a soldier came down the hall... pure improv.

It would've worked better if he'd been staying hidden the whole time.

Would've been harder to rescue 3 people with a 1-man fighter, but it blew up anyways, so no great loss.

Edited April 15, 2006 by JB0

[evirus]

...quotes dont seem to work

ill agree with the fact that the zentran suits wouldnt fit, but i still think given more attention to detail it would have showen stuff like tars and rips and what not in the suit...........

about the valk movements

fair arguments.... well, im sure would there be a way to easily "dial up" the grip of the arm allowing hikaru to simply "grab" minmay? i was talking about long complex movements like putting on cloths, from what i remember the movements desplayed in the "pick up minmay" part was rather simple; arm down, close grip...

as for max we know he was in a flight suit and helmet, there are already systems existing in the realworld to detect the detailed location of a pilots helmet, in an apache helicopter, this allows the pilot to aim a gun mounted on the bottem of the chopper simply by turning his head to where it should be aimed, (in macross zero we see fokker's point of view as he fallows an enemy fighter, just after he looks somewhere elese, we see the arms of the valk, in gerwalk mode, almost fallow the movement of his head)

there are also sensors that can pick up instructions to a persons muscles(this is used for prostetics, but its less useful because you cant segragate the nerves of the fingers and wrist farther up the arm where the useual amputation is preformed for example)

what if the valk had a switch on it to detect these peices of information i described, and amplify them allowing for minimal movement by the pilot and maximum output to the valk, having redundency in the controls is already used in aircraft of today, there are a few buttens that do the same thing, allowing the pilot to be more flexable and reach for the closest butten when in a jam.

Edited April 15, 2006 by evirus

[DeathHammer]

Please Delete Thanks

Edited February 9, 2010 by DeathHammer

[JB0]

...quotes dont seem to work

Sorry about that. Forgot a tag while trimming it down. Fixed now.

ill agree with the fact that the zentran suits wouldnt fit, but i still think given more attention to detail it would have showen stuff like tars and rips and what not in the suit...........

Perhaps.

about the valk movements

fair arguments.... well, im sure would there be a way to easily "dial up" the grip of the arm allowing hikaru to simply "grab" minmay? i was talking about long complex movements like putting on cloths, from what i remember the movements desplayed in the "pick up minmay" part was rather simple; arm down, close grip...

It reads as a simple action. Actually doing it is a tad harder.

Hikaru's never operated a VF before in his life. His sum total of experience consists of being shot down in a dog fight and crashing a battroid through a city block before walking it into an apartment. He's only just found out the sticks move the hands at all.

Picking Minmay up on the first try without missing totally, slapping her in the face, or crushing her to death should be a rather difficult task, especially without any tactile feedback.

as for max we know he was in a flight suit and helmet, there are already systems existing in the realworld to detect the detailed location of a pilots helmet, in an apache helicopter, this allows the pilot to aim a gun mounted on the bottem of the chopper simply by turning his head to where it should be aimed, (in macross zero we see fokker's point of view as he fallows an enemy fighter, just after he looks somewhere elese, we see the arms of the valk, in gerwalk mode, almost fallow the movement of his head)

there are also sensors that can pick up instructions to a persons muscles(this is used for prostetics, but its less useful because you cant segragate the nerves of the fingers and wrist farther up the arm where the useual amputation is preformed for example)

what if the valk had a switch on it to detect these peices of information i described, and amplify them allowing for minimal movement by the pilot and maximum output to the valk, having redundency in the controls is already used in aircraft of today, there are a few buttens that do the same thing, allowing the pilot to be more flexable and reach for the closest butten when in a jam.

391301[/snapback]

Hmmm... Might work. Not as well as it sounds, but possibly good enough.

It's really a somewhat limited control scheme for a war machine, though.

Head-tracking and eye-tracking are rational additions. It's the most intuitive method of rapidly designating targets using real-world technology.

Full-body tracking is much less useful, as there aren't intuitive motions to activate a lot of features, and you'll do something unintended while reaching for the controls to do them.

[evirus]

...quotes dont seem to work

Sorry about that. Forgot a tag while trimming it down. Fixed now.

ill agree with the fact that the zentran suits wouldnt fit, but i still think given more attention to detail it would have showen stuff like tars and rips and what not in the suit...........

Perhaps.

about the valk movements

fair arguments.... well, im sure would there be a way to easily "dial up" the grip of the arm allowing hikaru to simply "grab" minmay? i was talking about long complex movements like putting on cloths, from what i remember the movements desplayed in the "pick up minmay" part was rather simple; arm down, close grip...

It reads as a simple action. Actually doing it is a tad harder.

Hikaru's never operated a VF before in his life. His sum total of experience consists of being shot down in a dog fight and crashing a battroid through a city block before walking it into an apartment. He's only just found out the sticks move the hands at all.

Picking Minmay up on the first try without missing totally, slapping her in the face, or crushing her to death should be a rather difficult task, especially without any tactile feedback.

as for max we know he was in a flight suit and helmet, there are already systems existing in the realworld to detect the detailed location of a pilots helmet, in an apache helicopter, this allows the pilot to aim a gun mounted on the bottem of the chopper simply by turning his head to where it should be aimed, (in macross zero we see fokker's point of view as he fallows an enemy fighter, just after he looks somewhere elese, we see the arms of the valk, in gerwalk mode, almost fallow the movement of his head)

there are also sensors that can pick up instructions to a persons muscles(this is used for prostetics, but its less useful because you cant segragate the nerves of the fingers and wrist farther up the arm where the useual amputation is preformed for example)

what if the valk had a switch on it to detect these peices of information i described, and amplify them allowing for minimal movement by the pilot and maximum output to the valk, having redundency in the controls is already used in aircraft of today, there are a few buttens that do the same thing, allowing the pilot to be more flexable and reach for the closest butten when in a jam.

391301[/snapback]

Hmmm... Might work. Not as well as it sounds, but possibly good enough.

It's really a somewhat limited control scheme for a war machine, though.

Head-tracking and eye-tracking are rational additions. It's the most intuitive method of rapidly designating targets using real-world technology.

Full-body tracking is much less useful, as there aren't intuitive motions to activate a lot of features, and you'll do something unintended while reaching for the controls to do them.

391306[/snapback]

i think your also forgetting the fact that fokker did tell him about some of the controls while making repairs to his battleroid

i forgot to mention that eye-tracking was directly showen in the first episode of macross zero.

i said in my theories that there would be a switch to turn on and off these "translations" so the pilot only has to worry about them when they need to do custom movements

[JB0]

i think your also forgetting the fact that fokker did tell him about some of the controls while making repairs to his battleroid

Knowing how they work isn't the same as being capable of using them.

I'm pretty sure you weren't an immediate automobile master when you first sat behind the wheel. I know I wasn't. And a steering wheel and gas pedal is a LOT simpler than the mess of switches, joysticks, and pedals in a VF-1.

Even assuming perfect mastery of motion by description alone, gauging the proper pressure to apply would be VERY difficult.

(That's one of the major problems they've had with artificial hands, actually. They need a way for the user to tell how hard he's grabbing an object so he can not crush an egg while still having enough power to get a firm grasp on a heavy object. )

i said in my theories that there would be a switch to turn on and off these "translations" so the pilot only has to worry about them when they need to do custom movements

391312[/snapback]

How do you hit the switch to turn it off?

[evirus]

i think your also forgetting the fact that fokker did tell him about some of the controls while making repairs to his battleroid

Knowing how they work isn't the same as being capable of using them.

I'm pretty sure you weren't an immediate automobile master when you first sat behind the wheel. I know I wasn't. And a steering wheel and gas pedal is a LOT simpler than the mess of switches, joysticks, and pedals in a VF-1.

Even assuming perfect mastery of motion by description alone, gauging the proper pressure to apply would be VERY difficult.

(That's one of the major problems they've had with artificial hands, actually. They need a way for the user to tell how hard he's grabbing an object so he can not crush an egg while still having enough power to get a firm grasp on a heavy object. )

i said in my theories that there would be a switch to turn on and off these "translations" so the pilot only has to worry about them when they need to do custom movements

391312[/snapback]

How do you hit the switch to turn it off?

391316[/snapback]

ok ok ill give up on the first point,

as far as switching it off, prehaps a butten that can be pressed by the knee, something on the rudder peddles, how about a delay short enough to allow the pilot to quickly switch off before the movements get translated

[JB0]

ok ok ill give up on the first point,

Like I said, it's a required suspension of reality for the genre.

as far as switching it off, prehaps a butten that can be pressed by the knee, something on the rudder peddles, how about a delay short enough to allow the pilot to quickly switch off before the movements get translated

391322[/snapback]

Maybe a delay would work.

A knee button prevents using the system for leg motions.

[Raptor]

Personally I just assume a lot of the more delicate actions are automated (like in DYRL... where the computer recognized Minmay falling through the air as a non-hostile target) and that the controls only direct the movements of the Valkyrie (ie, running, flying, direction).

It also makes it a lot simpler if you assume that the gunpod and lasers are directed by the pilot's head/eye movements (at least the lasers were in Zero...), since that is a real technology currently in use.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I mean if it meant saving Earth, I think losing the SDF Macross would have been a solid tradeoff to wipe out the Zentraedi military high command.

I mentioned a long time ago that it would be kinda cool if they combined the pin point barrier technology (and global eventually used a full barrier system covering the whole sdf1 in the tv series) with the fold technology to fold the earth to the enemy HQ and use the grand cannon as a massive gun similar to the death star in star wars. The portions that are not in the way of the grand cannon would be shielded by barriers?

I wonder if UN spacy has the money to afford that? In macross 7 they managed to fold a lot of stuff by careful placement of the fold gadgets to fold one big thing.

Edited April 17, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[memnon]

Wouldn't that have serious repercussions on the gavitational makeup of the solar system? Having the Earth moved about could really throw things out of whack.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Hrm.. I never thought of that.

I guess it should only be used in emergency situations like the aliens are going to wipe us all out.

I supposed they can just take a large zentradi ship and use this trick but with a mini grand cannon in it.

I think what would be funny is if they took the brain of a zentradi and wired it to the macross 7 like in DYRL, so that exedol would be able to control the whole robot mode of the macross 7 using thoughts. (sort of like a giant version of the brainwave control system in macross plus) Now if exedol wants to do a pin point barrier punch/daedalus manuever, he just thinks it or shouts it out like in a super robot show and the robot mode performs the move.

Edited April 17, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zentrandude]

Hrm.. I never thought of that.

I guess it should only be used in emergency situations like the aliens are going to wipe us all out.

I supposed they can just take a large zentradi ship and use this trick but with a mini grand cannon in it.

I think what would be funny is if they took the brain of a zentradi and wired it to the macross 7 like in DYRL, so that exedol would be able to control the whole robot mode of the macross 7 using thoughts. (sort of like a giant version of the brainwave control system in macross plus) Now if exedol wants to do a pin point barrier punch/daedalus manuever, he just thinks it or shouts it out like in a super robot show and the robot mode performs the move.

391739[/snapback]

Bad things would happen. If exedol thinking to pick his nose he may accidently shove a realy huge finger into the bridge, plus having battle 7 scratch its ass or its crouch during battle doesn't look right.

[rnurmin]

Based on the scale of images from this Thread, MACROSS SCALES my answer will be no.

This is probably one of those anime magic

Edited April 17, 2006 by rnurmin

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If exedol thinking to pick his nose he may accidently shove a realy huge finger into the bridge, plus having battle 7 scratch its ass or its crouch during battle doesn't look right.

he would have voice commands to turn the thing off. Just like how guld says "stealth" in macross plus and activates stealth feature.

Maybe they could have another guy to watch and supervise how the controls are going and they can fall back on a manual system. If the crew were to be wiped out or exedol dies, an AI like sharon apple takes control of everything.

A ship that is truly organic might be some combination of living thing (like a cyborg) wired to machines. It's skin might be able to heal, and sense something there and like the AFOS have some kind of reaction to the person controlling it. (ie notice how only sara and mao were able to use the AFOS?) I bet the PC have ships that are more like intelligent beings conscious of the pilots that use them. (like a horse choosing the rider and favouring certain people over others)

The PC might even use thier telekinesis somehow to interact with thier weapons. Note how Sara could lift the rock or create a ball of energy to save herself from the long fall? So if a pc wanted to scratch its bum, they just grab a rock with thier mind and float it near thier butt and scratch it without even using thier hand.

Edited April 18, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

If exedol thinking to pick his nose he may accidently shove a realy huge finger into the bridge, plus having battle 7 scratch its ass or its crouch during battle doesn't look right.

he would have voice commands to turn the thing off. Just like how guld says "stealth" in macross plus and activates stealth feature.

If I recall, Guld doesn't actually SAY "stealth" though. He thinks it.

I'd bet he doesn't actually think the word "stealth" anyways or anything we'd actually recognize, so much as move an imaginary muscle that has no representation in real anatomy. Mac+ had to make compromises to depict the interface for the viewing audience.

Imagery of hands mapping to wing control surfaces and feet mapping to the throttle and thrust vectoring controls were convenient ways to give people a rough idea of what was going on, but fell far short of what you'd actualy experience.

In fact, if a neural interface was limited to mental analogies like that, it wouldn't be a lot of use. Among other things, a 1:1 mapping restricts your mech to human actions in battroid mode, and they're no fun without thrusters and integrated weaponry.

What actually goes on is the brain creates new commands just for the hardware interfaced to it(and the hardware learns what the brain is saying at the same time, so you don't have to match your thought patterns to an arbitrary hardware design).

Upshot is that rather than thinking about moving your hand to adjust the wings, you'd think about moving the wings.

Interestingly, Real-world research shows that, at least in other primates, the brain will actually develop sections devoted to the operation of the equipment hooked in through a neural interface. Hook a robot arm to an orangutang's head, and it develops a brain segment to control a third arm.

So essentially, once the learning curve was over, every control of the YF-21 would be like an actual part of Guld's body, in addition to his original flesh+blood body. Next best thing to actually becoming a bird.

</tech-fetish>

The PC might even use thier telekinesis somehow to interact with thier weapons. Note how Sara could lift the rock or create a ball of energy to save herself from the long fall? So if a pc wanted to scratch its bum, they just grab a rock with thier mind and float it near thier butt and scratch it without even using thier hand.

391910[/snapback]

A very sanitary solution. Also saves them the effort of reaching around back.

Better yet... just stick a couple of fingers of telekinetic force into the crack.

Why rough your butt up with a rock when you can hit the itch directly with nothing but willpower?

Edited April 18, 2006 by JB0

[Skull Leader]

Better yet... just stick a couple of fingers of telekinetic force into the crack.

Why rough your butt up with a rock when you can hit the itch directly with nothing but willpower?

391933[/snapback]

Because that just opens up the conversation for a whole 'nother bag of nachos....

[JB0]

Better yet... just stick a couple of fingers of telekinetic force into the crack.

Why rough your butt up with a rock when you can hit the itch directly with nothing but willpower?

391933[/snapback]

Because that just opens up the conversation for a whole 'nother bag of nachos....

393198[/snapback]

Ooooh, kinky...

[Guest Bromgrev]

Wouldn't that have serious repercussions on the gavitational makeup of the solar system? Having the Earth moved about could really throw things out of whack.

391734[/snapback]

Yeah, but if the Earth is gone, who's left to care?