twich

So, I have been thinking about Macross 7 lately and the absolutely enormous amount of mecha that we got out of the series. As is told, the Nova competition was between the VF-11 and the VF-14, with the VF-11 winning out. In Macross 7, we get the Varuta/Protodevlin mecha that were taken and reworked from the Macross 5 fleet that the protodevlin drained of spiritia and commandeered their equipment. My question is, given the stats of the Protodevlin mecha that we see, the FZ-109A. FZ-109F, AZ-130A and the FBz-99, we have thermonuclear reaction engines that produce in the realm of 55,000 kgf x2 or greater (in FBz-99 that would be x4) while the Macross 7 fleet is stuck with the VF-11C that boasts a measly 28,500 kgf x2 of thrust as the main variable fighter for the fleet. I know that the VF-17, VF-19 and VF-22S all have more thrust than the VF-11, but I am trying to discuss the Main Variable Fighter for the 2 fleets. Why did the UN Spacy go with the clearly inferior Variable Fighter as the Main Variable fighter for the UN Spacy and emigrant fleets? It is stated that the VF-14 was chosen for some emigrant fleets due to long cruising range and ease of maintenance and low cost of operation. The fact that it might be heavier, but has way more powerful engines, many more weapons than a Gun Pod and single head laser as standard equipment. The VF-14 has chest laser cannons, gun pod and built in missile launchers. Then you take the modified Protodevlin/Varuta variants that have heavier weapons loadouts. Am I missing something big here that makes the VF-14 that much less desirable than the VF-11? Twich

You make several very valid points. I guess that I had never thought of the YF-30 as a “contender” to the YF-29. The facts that you present lean me away from my original position. Also, looking at the SV-262, I think that it truly is an under appreciated variable fighter. Now, it was my understanding that the SV-262Ba did not have the fold quartz “boost” of 15% more thrust that the fold quartz equipped SV-262Hs did. Does that mean that the SV-262Ba had no fold quartz? Sadly, I never played Macross 30, just have admired the mecha created for it and admired the toys that Bandai produced from it. You mention the possibility of production models of the YF-30? I knew there was the second prototype of YF-29, the YF-29B Percival, but it remains unclear if anything was changed for these craft. The VF-27 is just a cool Variable Fighter and I wish we could see more of it, but understand the cyborg pilot necessity as being rather unsavory. Just a cool, all around Variable Fighter with a very large gun pod. As always, I have enjoyed the information presented here in this thread, let’s keep up the discussion. Twich

I can see your argument, I want to see if I am understanding your reasoning with a breakdown of each example you used. YF/VF-27 Super pack-I guess that I had forgotten that the whole reason for the super pack on this Variable fighter was to try to match the YF-29. The fuzzy part was whether it was to match the YF-29 without super parts attached, or with super parts. I don’t know which gun has the more power, I think the huge gun for the VF-27 is an earlier model, so therefore is bigger. I do not know if the YF-29 gun has a rapid fire mode like the gun pod of the VF-27. Micro Missles are usually spammed, and therefore the number held by the craft is subjective. The VF-27 has the 25mm beam machine guns in the wing root, and the 35mm large bore beam guns on the wing engines. The YF-29 has the same (as far as I can see on my toy of the YF-29) 25mm beam machine guns, some weird things that look like large bore guns on the forearms, but haven’t been identified as guns, the Tornado style twin MDE cannon, so I guess they are both very powerful, advantage to the VF-27 for not needing metric tons of fold quartz to operate though (as far as I know), the YF-29 has 2 head lasers, the VF-27 has one YF-30-another prototype, has the same gun pod, so even-Steven there. Has head lasers x2, so does the YF-29. Detachable mission pack that can be swapped out for anything that can be thought out, but we only see the missile pod in the game and in the toy. Has less weight, so has greater thrust to weight, as you mentioned, and is probably less costly to manufacture. SV-262-this one is a bit fuzzier for me to put up against the YF-29. I am sure it is much, much cheaper to manufacture, as the Kingdom of Windemere was able to have so many as the series starts, then supplement with even more in episode 16 or 17, where we see the airfield with at least 2 to 3 squadrons more of the SV-262Ba variant. Gunpods, probably of similar power, although when the SV-262 takes out that carrier in the first episode of Delta, that has to have some power behind it. The railguns of the SV-262 are a bit of an unknown. We don’t know if they are true railguns, or just electrically assisted out of the barrel and utilize regular bullet mechanics. Also, we don’t know how much of an ammo drum the SV-262 has to carry. The ammo would have to be stored in the arm, and I believe that would probably limit the number of rounds it could carry, but even if there was a central feed from within the arm or main body, that would take up a lot of room. I know in the animation that we see both the SV-262 and more so the VF-31 use their railguns during long, sustained bursts and what sounds like a rather high rate of fire, so I am sure that ammo would be used rather quickly. The YF-29 has double thickness energy conversion armor that has 4 times the electrical power pumped through it(I believe this is right) and the YF-29 can use ECA in all modes. Does it state that the SV-262 can do this also? I would think not, since in the animation, a 25mm rail gun round was able to penetrate the cockpit in GERWALK mode and take out the eye of Keith. You mention option packs, I assume you mean the VF-31 with Full Armor pack? As far as I am aware, the Full Armor has the giant Gatling/rail guns, all those missiles and the sheer thickness that the armor appears to possess. I don’t know the cost, but i could not be that stupid expensive as the cost of the YF-29, since Xoas was able to field several, the VF-31S, VF-31E, and a few VF-31A’s. As far as sheer thrust, I think that the YF-29 for the base Variable Fighter is top dog. The YF-30 has better thrust to weight ratio because it is much lighter, less bulky. I think that the SV-262 also benefits from this. The new standard energy-based gun pods gives real power to the base Variable Fighter without getting into super/armor packs. I believe that some of the new mecha that we were introduced to in the Macross 30 video game and the Macross Delta series certainly benefitted from the gains made by the YF-29. I agree, the cost and material needed to produce one would bankrupt most planets. If these were not factors, and were are talking the base Variable Fighter, I still think that a stock YF-29 is more powerful than any other Variable Fighters that we have seen to date. Something tells me that the new Variable Fighter for the second Macross Delta Movie is going to give the YF-29 a run for its money and may sway my opinion....but we will have to wait and see. Sorry for my long rambling post, I just love having a discussion on the details of Variable Fighters. Twich

Since we have been having such good discussion and information sharing about Variable Fighters, I would argue that the YF-29 Durandal is arguably the most powerful Variable Fighter that we have seen. With raw engine power with 4 engines, armament and defensive capabilities, I think it is the most powerful. Now I know we don’t have access to the stats of the NUN Spacy VF-24 or the NUN Spacy YF-29B Percival, barring those and what we might see in the second Delta movie, who is in agreement?

Now that we have had a really good discussion of the VF-2SS from Macross 2, maybe we can talk about another unique Variable Fighter in the VF-4. This is one of the few whose design has the three hull design with the legs and arms stored away from the central body, also we have the fact that it has three types of propulsion systems on board, besides the standard RCS/Vernier thrusters for maneuvers in space. As far as I know and have read on M3/ Macross Compendium, the VF-4 has 2 thermonuclear reaction engines in legs, thermonuclear rocket type thrusters in the shoulders(behind arms) and finally the 2 ramjets located in the rear in fighter mode/in backpack in battroid. Does any other variable fighter have so many different propulsion systems as part of the base variable fighter? I know the VB-6 Koenig Monster has some interesting propulsion, but that thing is literally a Monster. Also, can all of these propulsion systems be used at once? What kind of thrust are we talking about here? I know that the premise for the VF-4 was to replace the need for FAST packs while the variable fighter is in space and to have enough onboard fuel capacity to be able to sortie for extended periods of time in space, but what other purpose does all these different engines serve? I am curious to hear what people think. Twich

I would be interested to know the power of the rail guns. I know that the rail gun on the SAP is anti-capital ship class, but what about the head lasers/ beam cannons. twich

I had remembered you previously equating the VF-2SS with the VF-11 as far as power and engine output. Very interesting. twich

I agree with you that Macross II was an innovator for subsequent Macross productions. I had never heard the designation for Metal Siren was VA-1SS, but it makes sense, given the nomenclature for the VF-2SS. I know the VF-2SS has 4 thermonuclear reaction engines. We seem to only have statistics for the main leg engines, but no information on the smaller ones, which was always curious for me...are they at least as powerful as the main engines of the VF-1? That would make the VF-2SS quite a leap ahead, not to mention the VF-2JA and Metal Siren. Thank you for the information on Macross II, I am always eager for more. Twich

I am sure that the RPG stats are a load of horse dung that took at bath in COVID. I just wish that Macross II got the same love and dedication to the lore and the raw statistics that other Macross series. Some of the designs and implementations are rather unique and worthy of much more love than it appears to receive. I wish that the story was a bit more fleshed out with the exact origins of the Mardook. Are they Protoculture decendants? The Variable Fighter need to get something akin to the Variable Fighter Master File for the VF-2SS, VF-2JA, VF-XX, VF-1MS and even the Mardook mecha. Twich

I dont know how reliable to RPG stats were, but didnt it say that the Battlepod things used an experimental antigravity drive, which didnt strike me as smart on the "Cannon Fodder" mecha of the series. Twich

Since I cannot figure out how to PM people, Jenius, are you going to review this toy on your YouTube/any moon.com? twich

Isn’t it missing a head fin? Seem to recall one on the tease from a while ago. Like the colors, looks kinda like a cross between bird human and VF-27

That looks way different, but kinda YF-21/vf-4/vf-14/variable glaug vibe going for it

Who knows, maybe this means a reissue/release of all the VF-31’s and so normal people can get them without paying $500 for a VF-31C/S/A twich

are those white landing gear a custom? or is Bandai giving us painted gear now? Sorry if this was answered earlier. Twich

So, I thought that Kitzconcept's 1/72 VF-1J was supposed to have been released months ago, I know that KUMA STYLE did a review of it, but I am not seeing more reviews or anywhere where it is available? I also, for whatever reason cannot access Kitzconcepts' website anymore. Did this company go under because of COVID-19? Just curious. Twich

Hopefully we can get a slew of new Bandai DX Chogokin VF-31’s either an “A” variant or some other one, then there is the new mystery valkyrie, which can have a whole slew of variants, we don’t know, then there is the potential for more/some SV-262 variants! Wonder when in 2021 we will get it? Twich

Yes, that is the same one My son has a KO MP-11 skywarp and they are exactly the same as far as structures go for the legs. Sorry it took so long to answer, 6, 12-hour shifts in a row tends to detach me from reality. Twich

Out of the several Macross jets that we have on the horizon, this is going to be one that I would like to know more about, have updated prototype pictures of and to know the release date and price of this. This design has always had a place in my heart as a mecha lover and it is one of the more unique designs that breaks with the traditional mold for Variable Fighter design, ala SV-262 Twich

I watched Macross 7 in the early 2000's, right after I first joined this site. The thing that stuck with me, at least for the mecha aspect and as I have seen further Macross series developments, is that the amount of varied mecha was probably the most of any series. You had the: VF-11C VF-11D Jamming Birds VF-11MAXL Mylene Custom VF-17D VF-17S VF-17T Custom VF-19F VF-19S VF-19 Kai Fire Valk VF-19P VF-5000G VF-5000T-G VA-3C VF-1C (civilian model) VF-22S Sturmvogel II Custom x3 FZ-109A Fz-109F Az-130A FBZ-99G and I am sure that there are more, like the police destroid. This is the things that really sets Macross 7 apart for me, besides the fact that it was the most prolific, episode wise, of the Macross franchise. I will agree, yes it used a lot of recycled footage, and if I heard Planet Dance once more, I thought I was going to pop, but the story and the mecha make it one of the Macross greats for me. Twich

Add the VF-2JA to that list along with the VF-XX. I would also like to add my vote for Hi-Metal R Macross Frontier Mecha, give me a VF-25 and VF-27, please

1/48 VF-25? This is the first I have heard of that! That would be so ideal and sooooooo expensive, like aftermarket VF-0D expensive. Would love to see more info on that. Twich PS-wonder if they will reissue a VF-1J Hikaru

So, I just got my first and only KO/3P masterpiece transformer, the Robot Formers Oversized Thundercracker Seeker mold MP-11. Man, this thing is huge! The build quality is nice and it fits together well! My Arcadia 1/60 35th Anniversary VF-1J looks like it could be a drone or a ghost booster for thundercracker! These toys are supposed to be around 1/48 scale, right? Anyway, very impressed with it....now only if they made Macross jets that big! twich

Anyone getting/have gotten the new 9th edition indomitus(sp?) crusade box set? Watched an unboxing video and looks to be pretty cool looking, though I have no idea the cost and they are made to order, but for those who are into the tabletop gaming, it is where it is at right now. I have not played the tabletop game since epic scale was a thing. I had the space marine faction army, they were the Ultramarines and I had a Reaver Class Titan and a Warlord Class titan and a whole bunch of Land Raider Tanks. But that has got to have been 20 or more years ago. Twich

My hobbies other than Macross include, Gunpla, Videogaming, with Sony since the PS1, but when the Nintendo Switch Lite came out, I became hooked. Gunpla became too expensive, as anything below Mastergrade would only take me an hour or two to assemble. I have many Mastergrade, R/E 100, and one Perfect Grade. The Perfect Grades are just too expensive to get multiples of right now with finances. I would go to the pistol range more and target practice, but even that has gotten way too expensive....makes me wonder if I will renew my concealed carry pistol license when the time comes, will depend on the cost. .45 ACP is too expensive to shoot a lot of and then there is 9mm. My main hobby is watching my 11 and 10 year old participate in Taekwondo, they both will be testing for black belt towards the end of the month and realistically, that is where my money goes now. Twich