Mr March

That's not really an answer, since we don't know whether the ISC "inertia buffer" works that way or not. Though I suppose one assumption is as good as another. Could you do me a favor and stop insinuating that I'm stifling debate every time I "ask" fans to "consider" my "opinion"? There's nothing wrong with asking people to take into consideration ALL the factors worth considering when trying to form some kind of unified theory. Thank you.

IMO, I'd be wary of jumping to conclusions from all this. I see a lot of assumptions with very little hard data or consideration for the impact of these assumptions. I also see the possibility of the VF-25 Messiah being held to a different standard than other fighters. Generally speaking, fans have a bad habit of applying the rules differently when new trivia appears that was not present before. It's also important to take into account the effects of retroactive continuity, especially if one Macross show is binding it's fiction to more/less realistic physics than another. Is "g-limit" from the old statistics the same as "maximum airframe design load"? Do both parameters take into account the same assumptions and science? If the 27.5g limit on the VF-25 Messiah takes into account engineering practicalities such as "creep", did the older statistics do the same? If we have a time limit for the VF-25 Messiah, what then was the time limit for the older valkyries? Less? More? If there was no such time limit, wouldn't that create an obvious a continuity crisis when comparing the variable fighters? I'm sure we can understand the impact these assumptions could have upon the older valkyrie statistics. Just something to keep in mind.

I'd actually prefer it if the black VF from Macross 7 Spiritia Dreaming was the VA-14. It certainly would make classification that much easier, since we could marry the black VF line art to the VA-14. We could then leave the VF-14 Vampire married to the line art from the M3 Dreamcast video game. But alas, we're just the fans, not the creators

Not all that surprising, but funny nonetheless. I've been contacted by a few Japanese fans about my own website. It was inevitable that people from around the world would take notice of fansites in other languages. I know I've visited my share of German, French and Japanese sites over the years and translated info with babelfish

Keeping in mind that no person, Kawamori or otherwise, can be expected to remember everything Macross over a 25 year period, the way Kawamori and Co. have run Macross continuity to date suggests they do not use any sort of "franchise guide" to Macross. Macross as a franchise appears to be largely re-imagined and/or re-interpreted with each new production. That's not to say there is no continuity at all, since there clearly is some, but it's obvious story and theme are given priority over continuity. It's true that science fiction shows often use story bibles, but most are not as extensive as one would think (with exceptions for shows like Trek or BSG-2004). They are mostly used in a multiple writer environment and act as a primer to maintain continuity. Since Kawamori is largely responsible for the entire creative direction of the Macross series, an overall "franchise bible" is likely viewed as superfluous to him. Personally, I'm fine with Macross continuity as is. I wouldn't want Macross to follow any written-in-stone bible, especially since it's much easier to write better stories without chaining the creative staff to some kind of dogmatic set of rules. So long as the Macross technology itself remains within reasonable limits (no invincible, time-traveling variable fighters), the last thing I want to see is some Trek-like rulebook governing what can or can't be done in Macross. The only thing that bothers me about Macross continuity is the lack of statistics for the mecha

The way I interpret the time limit of the airframe is either: - An arbitrary time limit assigned by the engineers so that pilots will have a rough idea how far to push their fighters before it becomes unsafe. - Something linked to the ECA (Energy Converting Armor), which can only sustain itself with the power available for 120 seconds. Since the ICS "inertia buffer" pretty much eliminates the effects of g-force, the pilots no longer have an in situ sense of how much their variable fighters can take before the craft yield to stress. The 120 seconds provides a benchmark for safe operation of the VF-25.

IMO, you have more to lose by watching the movie first. Of every Alan Moore book that's been adapted to the screen thus far, the book has always been better (sometimes quite a lot better). That's not to say all books are better than the movies (Blade Runner was always better than Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, at least to me), but in the case of the Alan Moore books, odds are strong the book will be better. If you watch the movie first and love it, you'll likely read the book. If you watch the movie first but hate it, you're not likely to read the book, especially since the book is larger and will take a greater investment of your time. If you read the book first and love it, you'll be really eager to see the film. If you read the book first but hate it, at least you've sampled the Watchmen story at it's best in what is most likely it's strongest format. "There ya go"

"SchizophrenicMC ate my baby!"

LOL Kinda funny

What do I think? It looks brilliant! Wow. That is a great shot. Bring on the wallpapers

Given that the VF-25 Messiah cockpit utilizes holographic tracking displays (seen in the first episode of Macross Frontier, in Ozma's VF-25S), the cockpit could probably be opaque and it wouldn't matter. In fact, Valkyries like the Variable Glaug, Varauta Fighters and the VF-27 (perhaps not the best example due to the "virtual cockpit") all use opaque cockpits. In SDF Macross, Hikaru also flew his VF-1J Valkyrie through the atmosphere with the heat shield closed. I think in light of the multi-screen displays (most Battroids), holographic/volumetric images (VF-1 block 6 cockpits and later), wrap-around imaging monitors (YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur, VF-17 Nightmare, VF-25 Messiah), brain-direct imaging system (YF-21) and virtual cockpit (VF-27 Lucifer), transparent cockpit canopies are really just a stylistic holdover that are totally unnecessary in a technical sense. Macross mecha appear perfectly operable without any kind of window, with little impact upon a pilot's situational awareness.

The VF-25S Armored transformation had an obvious dramatic glow for that particular sequence, same for the final battle. Can't see anything in the third picture. And yes, Macross Frontier CGI worked much better than the CGI in Macross Zero. Despite being far more detailed and higher in polygon count, the CGI in Macross Zero felt like watching tiny models; the mecha lacked a sense of weight and scale. In Macross Frontier the mecha had none of these problems.

Yeah, I seem to be recalling something like that. Not sure. The YF-19 became the VF-19 Excalibur, while the YF-21 became the VF-22 Sturmvogel II. So it's not a set pattern. Based on the official trivia released so far, the VF-25 Messiah is not the production model of the YF-24. It's clearly stated as an independently developed class, just like the VF-27 Lucifer. They are both only loosely based off the YF-24 Evolution. I'd not be likely to ask geek questions of Kawamori in an interview. As a film geek first, I'd bore the audience with production and story questions. I'd want to know budgets and time frames, themes and styles, mise-en-scène and leitmotifs, and why I think Kawamori is secretly a Sergio Leone fan

Looks very good.

I can make no sense of this post. Lots Seriously, there is no cost per unit for a VF-11C Thunderbolt, so we don't know how much money the Protodeviln War cost the Macross 7 fleet. We do know the Macross 7 fleet had some 1,800 variable fighters (mostly VF-11C Thunderbolts) and could build more in times of war, so despite loosing a lot of fighters, the UN Spacy did have a rather large stockpile of VFs.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Shinsei Industries sent out the YF-24 Evolution plans to each fleet. To my mind, that means the YF-24 Evolution is done the prototype stage and is obviously ready for mass production. You don't disseminate fighter plans among your entire military for a fighter that is not yet finalized. The addition of the "V" would be a mere formality at that point. Going a step further into speculation, it is especially telling of the YF-24 Evolution time frame that both the Macross Galaxy and Macross Frontier fleets had time to study the YF-24 at length. These fleets then had time to design entirely new fighters, which went into limited mass production prior to 2059. I'd tend to think that for all this to jive, VF-24 Evolutions have already been flying in active service for several years when the events of the Macross Frontier series begin in 2059.

Hehehe. Look on the bright side, it's good coloring, if I do say so myself Indeed they have. But it's definitely mine. The coloring/shading of the VF-4 Lightning III fighter mode is especially telling as my own work, since it's a unique style that I invented for just that one fighter. LOL No, unfortunately it doesn't work that way. To get paid, I would have needed to have commissioned my skills to Bandai before releasing my work on the internet. Asking for compensation after the fact is really too little too late. Plus, the line art is theirs; the only thing I own is the coloring/shading work. I would have loved to color line art for Bandai and Big West, but I think I'm living in the wrong country for that Besides, I built my website for the english fans, and we've always got the short end of the stick

I know Gundam often gets flack here on MW, but please give me and my post the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't really referring to the stylistic differences in combat between Gundam mobile suit fights and Macross valkyrie battles. I was talking about real world animation techniques and that I've been spoiled by the accomplishments of Macross Frontier CGI animation. I've always been both praising and critical of CGI animation in anime, but Macross Frontier is the first series I've watched where the CGI mecha animation has finally caught up with and even surpassed that unique visual style we've all come to know and love from 2D hand drawn animation from Japan. Now, going back to something like Gundam 00 after experiencing something like Macross Frontier, it's a little bit disappointing because Macross Frontier has spoiled my taste for the best that CGI mecha action can offer over 2D. For me, Macross Frontier really is a turning point for anime mecha action, at least in a visual sense if not in a narrative sense. It began with toon shaded CGI vehicles in stuff like Ghost in the Shell: SAC and Yukikaze, but Macross Frontier is really the show that has brought this type of animation into it's own. The Macross Frontier CGI mecha animation at lasts feels "anime-like" in the conceptualization and execution of the scenes. It finally feels like I'm watching Japanese style animation with that same aesthetic feeling and the same Itano Circus, only in 3D now rather than 2D. Even Macross Zero, with a bigger per episode budget and higher polygon count models, did not achieve a successful merging of CGI technology with aesthetic style the way Macross Frontier has. That's all I was really saying. Besides, I'm having a ball with Gundam 00 and trust me when I say that means a lot coming from me

Very interesting article. It answers a lot of questions about ships, fold technology and other specifics that we've not yet had clarified. It's also funny how Kawamori doesn't always remember everything he creates, which is a good reminder of the true nature of the writing process for all the overly-nitpicking fans That part about the Macross Frontier fleet being influenced by Richard Bilrer as a shadow sponsor was interesting information that could have been made clearer in the series. I suppose Kawamori can hide behind "we don't always know all the facts in real life" but for the sake of narrative flow and coherency, it would have made much more sense to expand upon this connection in the series. Especially since the power between corporations vs. government is a very compelling issue to explore in fiction. Of course, myself and other YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur & YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II fans are sure to be happy at the news that Kawamori has confirmed fleets exist that use these fighters. I must say that the New Unity Government of Macross is even more decentralized than I realized. Well thanks for posting this Zinwonderful. This was a fantastic read from an anthropological view

Yeah, that pretty much hits the nail on the head No one said debate was without benefit, only that it's difficult at the best of times to reach any definitive, binding conclusion when comparing variable fighters. I agree that debate does, at the very least, draw attention to how much we don't know about the variable fighters. Which is usually why you'll hear me and the other statistic-fans crying for more information about the VFs. We can never have enough However, just to point out, not all of us assume the ICS system maxed out at 27.5 gs. I myself have always followed "the rule lower limits" which states the minimum, but not necessarily the maximum (Energy Converting Armor is a good example of something with a proven upper limit that is much greater than the stated lower limit). Nonetheless, the lack of information is a good point to make as a reminder. As for the YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur & YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II vs. the VF-25 Messiah, rest assured there are still some of us on MW who have invested more thought into the fiction than some knee-jerk fanboys with their 5-minutes-after-the-episode reactions

So purty. I love the beam cannon blasts. Really nice to see those in action.

IMO, I found the combat/dogfighting/battle scenes from Macross Frontier in no way disappointing. If I could criticize Macross Frontier for anything, the action certainly wouldn't be one of it's faults. And as a Gundam 00 fan, I've found Macross Frontier has even somewhat spoiled me when comparing battle sequences between shows, despite Gundam 00's top notch animation. To me, that speaks very highly of what Macross Frontier was able to accomplish visually.

Thank you. I would also tend to agree with you on this point. If the VF-11 Thunderbolt isn't better than the VF-1 Valkyrie, why would the VF-1 be replaced by the VF-11? The answer is the VF-11 wouldn't replace the VF-1, unless it was significantly better to justify the costs involved to mass produce the Thunderbolt as a viably advanced replacement. This is the way technology works; the old - as good as it is - will be replaced by the new and eventually technology will reach a point where the new fighter outclasses the old in every conceivable way. The VF-25 Messiah doesn't appear to outclass the VF-19/VF-22 in every conceivable way, but there is no doubt in my mind that VF-25 Messiah is a major leap forward. The VF-25 is clearly a significantly advanced fighter, not some minor incremental improvement. Which is pretty much as certain as we can get Which again is a debate over "all other factors being equal". We can create all kinds of hypothetical scenarios in which the VF-25's advantages are removed until it's possible for an VF-19/VF-22 to sit on equal footing. Or can we? Can we compare rate of turn? Fuel efficiency? Cost? And even if we could, what is the point in handicapping the VF-25? We could just as easily argue, as David Hingtgen has pointed out, that the VF-25 could be built for a 60g rating at added expense, which is the same thing as installing an ISC on the VF-19/VF-22 at added expense. It's just a slippery slope of speculation without definitive conclusion. The debate seems to be an attempt at a definitive conclusion via inconclusive means AND arguing uncertainty as a mitigating factor to say a less advanced designed isn't completely outclassed by a more advanced design (or debating modern viability of old technology in the face of more advanced alternatives). Which again results in a simple debate of opinion without a solid conclusion. "Under certain circumstances" even the VF-1 Valkyrie could beat the VF-25 Messiah, but such scenarios get us nowhere. The only "certainty" that exists is that it's not a likely possibility an older fighter will beat a newer fighter and the older the fighter is, the less likely is such a possibility. We can't even be 100% certain the VF-25 Messiah is superior in every way to the VF-1 Valkyrie. That's how little information we really have on these fictional vehicles. The only conclusion we can reach is to say it's very likely the VF-25 Messiah is better than the VF-1 Valkyrie, given the obvious written fiction by the Macross creative staff (engine power, T-W ratio, advances in technology, new technologies, etc). Same goes for the VF-11 over the VF-1, or the VF-19 vs. the VF-22 or the VF-25 vs. the older fighters. The VF-25's T-W ratio, its inertia buffer, the linear actuators, etc, all tell me the VF-25 Messiah is in a performance level beyond the VF-19/VF-22. The VF-25 Messiah is not a minor, incremental improvement; it's a significant leap forward. The official trivia doesn't get much more specific than that, but it doesn't need to be. The point is clear, at least to me I will say this much; based on the official trivia released (meaning the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus remains an enigma thus far), if I had to fight a VF-25 Messiah using only previous generation fighters, I'd chose the VF-19S Excalibur or the VF-22S Sturmvogel II Thank you. I'll note this for a revision to the Battle Frontier profile.

So far, so good. Nice job!