Mr March

Apocalypse Meow! It's THE anti-Disney series

Macross Frontier is just Macross done well, but no more than that. The story of Macross Frontier is not innovative or groundbreaking or provocative and it wasn't meant to be. It's simply entertaining for the sake of entertainment. It's Macross, for the sake of Macross, but nothing more. Like I've said before, Macross Frontier is the Iron Man of it's time, not The Dark Knight. Expecting Macross Frontier to be Flag is like wanting Gundam to be Evangelion. But I will say this much about the whole debate surrounding the Macross franchise; it's a source of interest to me reading between the lines for the real reasons behind fan opinion of the series. It has been a learning experience going through the entire "fan process" of a modern anime series, from pre-release, to broadcast, to the aftermath. Living this last year alongside Macross Frontier, it's fascinating how so many people have vastly different reasons and expecations for Macross and for liking/disliking Macross Frontier (or the rest of the franchise). Especially here on MW, you get a front row seat to the need people have to discuss their tastes and why. I've never done that before with an anime series and it's turned out quite enlightening, much more so than just being a part of an existing fandom discussing topics long after the fact.

They weren't that bad. Only the appearance of the thrones and the Trans-Am system felt really deus ex machina. But I adored Gundam 00 season one and had a lot of fun with it. I just hope this last episode of season 2 is good.

I'm totally underwhelmed by that red mecha. I don't like the look of Ribbon's uber-suit at all. But that's the trouble with this whole second season, it's just an extended game of one-upping the previous episode. That formula had already over stayed it's welcome by the time season one had finished. It didn't detract that much from first season, but now that we're into second season, the number and look of secret designs is just becoming ridiculous. IMO, Gundam 00 first season is still winning the contest. I don't think I'm going to find this second season as good, but perhaps the final episode will make up for some of the slack.

I don't watch television and I can't stand most commercials. If I'm at a friend's with the TV on, I have to mute the television when the adverts appear. So, the only way I get to watch the odd TV series I actually want to see, it has to be on the internet or on DVD. If I have to watch a series on a specific schedule with commercials, that's a TV series I won't be watching. I don't know how other people do it, but I've never been able to schedule my life around television. I always end up missing episodes. A friend made me promise to try watching broadcast TV back during the 2nd season of 24. I lasted two episodes. So broadcast negatively impacts my enjoyment of any show. I don't miss broadcast TV all that much. I miss some of the water cooler conversation and the odd Simpsons/Family Guy joke, but overall I gain more than I lose. When I do see something worth watching, like The Wire, Battlestar Galactica or Macross Frontier, I watch them when I want, commercial free, all at once or as they become available. I prefer watching entire seasons over a week or two or sometimes in a few days if I'm really hooked. I watch it, enjoy it and then I'm free to do whatever else. IMO, watching series in weekly installments is archaic. But I recognize that I'm the rare exception and not the rule EDIT Oh, and as a side note, the horrible release schedule of Macross Zero did contribute to my annoyance with it. Granted, if it had been to my liking in the end, all would have been forgiven. But the stupid delays between episodes only made a bad story worse.

This thread is all win Macross Frontier worked for me. I got that giddy kid-in-me feeling when Alto jumped into the VF-25 GERWALK and opened fire in episode one. The feeling carried through the show and ended on a very high note. That's more of a benchmark than a thousand reviews and pretty much the whole reason for watching something like Macross in the first place. There was quit e a bit about Macross Frontier that impressed me. In particular, I enjoyed how Frontier subverted the rather ridiculous character design of Alto. It was a real pleasure watching Alto fume as the punchline to every princess/girl/ma'am joke. It gave us permission to like the character and served as a way for the audience to relate to him rather than being resentfully forced to tolerate him, like the yaoi bait in virtually every other modern anime. The character design and personality of Alto also created a very credible link between Alto and Sheryl, since they both suffer from a certain alienation in society due to their looks and talent. It was a key ingredient that's often missing from so many other anime series that force us to accept a relationship between characters just because the plot demands it. And speaking of subverting, I loved how Macross Frontier played with the expectations of old school fans. While watching Macross Frontier, there were so many times I figured I knew what was going to happen because the story was playing out like past Macross tales. But then the rug would be pulled out from underneath us and something unexpected would happen. I remain surprised Macross Frontier was so popular with younger crowds because several aspects of the show felt tailor-made for old school fans. To consider the things that bothered me about Frontier, I felt the "Cybernetic Conspiracy" with Grace and the Macross Galaxy were underwritten. This sub plot felt like a blatant attempt to emulate the mysterious and unexplained atmosphere of anime such as Neon Genesis Evangelion. It was also a shame that the writers mishandled Alto's family problems in the latter part of the series. The tension between Alto and his family was dramatically engaging for the first half of the series, but because the sub plot was underwritten into irrelevance later in the story, it became mostly extraneous at end of the series. Probably more than anything else, these weaker sub-plots hurt the pacing and flow of the last third of the series (ironically, a somewhat similar case of weak pace and narrative flow that happened in the last third of the original SDF Macross series). Some fan service excess and the odd weak episode bothered me, but my complaints never went much beyond that. For an anime, it was certainly a strong series and the finale was nothing short of a mecha series at it's finest.

Well, rather than saying what the crusader ISN'T, let's be specific (as we can) and say what it IS. The VF-3000/VF-1 line art IS a to-scale diagram specifically drawn as such, complete with scale arrows. Also, the VF-1's legs will NOT be the same length as the VF-3000's legs, so the "hips" won't align. Further, the VF-1 Battroid (in the afore mentioned line art) is NOT standing on some "much, much lower plane" than the VF-3000 Battroid because their hips are NOT supposed to align. And lastly, the VF-3000's hips do NOT rest higher upon the nose of the craft: in fact, they appear to rest at almost an identical level (not that it would matter, since the VF-3000 nose is nearly 15% longer than the VF-1 nose). I would have thought my scale pictures posted above made most of these conclusions obvious. But if not, let's work it out and see what can be concluded. Using the rough line art as a guide, I get the following calculations for the VF-3000 Crusader Fighter Mode: VF-3000 Crusader (fighter mode) = 3,114 pixels long VF-1A Valkyrie (fighter mode) = 2,814 pixels long Multiplier = 1.1066098081 x 14.23 meter VF-1 length VF-3000 is 15.75 meters long. When the engines/legs of the VF-3000 Crusader are EXTENDED (as they are in Battroid mode) the length is as follows): VF-3000 Crusader (fighter, LEG EXTENDED) = 3,435 pixels long VF-1A Valkyrie (fighter mode) = 2,814 pixels long Multiplier = 1.2206823028 x 14.23 meter VF-1 length VF-3000 (with legs extended) = 17.37 meters Now, if I retain use of the line art and roughly align it so that it equals the VF-3000 Battroid side schematic art work and then calculate all that out, I get the following: VF-3000 Crusader (battroid mode) = 3,240 pixels tall VF-1A Valkyrie (fighter mode) = 2,814 pixels long Multiplier = 1.1513859275 x 14.23 meter VF-1 length VF-3000 is 16.38 meters tall (from foot to head cannon tip) So, with this very rough guess, the VF-3000 Crusader Battroid is 16.38 meters tall top to bottom while the VF-1 Valkyrie Battroid is 12.68 meters tall (not including cannons). But why stop here? Let's put the "lower plane" theory to rest. I've attached another picture which shows the VF-3000 and VF-1S battroids are not standing on different planes. In fact, both battroids are almost perfectly level with each other. So... If the battroid line art is to be believed, the VF-3000 Battroid is somewhere around 18-19 meters tall. If the fighter line art is to be believed, the VF-3000 Battroid is somewhere around 16.38 meters tall. Digressing ALL THE WAY back to the picture that spawned this excessive analysis, whoever this Anon is, he's using the exact same method I use to scale the perspective line art of the Battroids (both top and bottom anchor points). However, he's not accounting for all the relevant factors (particularly extending legs) so he's ending up with a very small VF-3000 battroid. That small battroid is not accurate to either the fighter art or the battroid art.

First off, no the VF-3000/VF-1S comparison picture is not some out-of-scale shot. Second, the VF-3000 transforms in significantly different ways than the VF-1 Valkyrie, so they won't scale the same. And lastly, the length of the VF-3000 Fighter is not indicative of it's fighter-to-battroid ratio in the same way as the VF-1's ratio of fighter-to-battroid. Why? Notice how the VF-3000 Crusader transforms? The legs? Yeah, that. So yes, the VF-3000 Crusader is a giant version of a VF-1 Valkyrie. Now, how much larger is the VF-3000 Crusader? Not sure, but the line art clearly establishes a rather significant difference. Is my own choice dead on accurate? Uncertain, especially given the problems scaling line art picture drawn in different perspectives rather than comparing schematics (which would be ideal). However, it's clear the VF-3000 is NOT the same size as the VF-1. What's more, the VF-3000 is significantly larger. I've done my best to illustrate several differences in scale in the picture attached below (it also shows the extension of the VF-3000's leg/engines). This should give fans an idea why the size of the VF-3000 Crusader is as big as it is.

Very nice work.

Yeah, it's not a bad guess to scale the VF-171 Nightmare Plus similar to a VF-17 Nightmare. The VF-4 Lightning III could be a variety of heights. The official statistics don't even make any sense. Apparently the VF-4 is 14.92 meter long and 14.28 meters wide, but looking at both Kawamori's line art and the official schematics, they clearly show the length-to-width ratio won't support 14.92 to 14.28. We're then left to guess which dimension is supposed to be accurate, length or width? Before we could even begin scaling the VF-4 Battroid, we'd have to know that much.

Likely one of the most intelligent posts ever made on Macross World. So true for ANY franchise, Macross, Gundam or otherwise.

Yeah, the VF-3000 is way off and the VF-4 feels a little big (though it's really kinda a guess anyway). I wonder why he removed the Super Boosters from the VF-11C, but kept the engine/leg packs? His VF-5000 Star Mirage and VF-19P Excalibur are interesting re-colors. They look kinda purty Yeah, the VF-11MAXL Custom is tiny according to the official stats. No, the VF-17 Nightmare looks fine. It's 15.18 meters tall. The VF-171 Nightmare Plus is a guess, since we've got no stats.

Just finished episodes 22 and 23. Okay, NOW the Trans-Am has gone beyond pedestrian! So, what was the point of all those "Gaga" mobile suits? They are just Trans-Am suicide squads piloted by innovator clones? I'm not sure I understand the point of that. Why would one build a horde of kamikaze mobile suits and cloned pilots when it would be so much easier to just build thousands of missiles? That was really rather silly. I guess Ribbons is just that much of a tool. His attack of ultimate evil is pretty lame. The battle between Setsunna and Graham was fun. I wonder what Graham will do now that he's had his ideology defeated as well as his mobile suit? I also liked the anti-GN particle field. That was an interesting tactic. Also, it was nice to see that A-Laws idiot finally get it Well, not bad so far. We'll wait and see how the rest turns out.

10 gigaton reaction missiles? That's definitely quite a large yield for a weapon in Macross. Not that I doubt it at all, it's just unusual to see that kind of figure finally published.

Almost caught up. Currently on episode 22 of second season. I must say, I'm not enjoying this season as much as the first. It's not as tightly written or as coherent as first season. There's also so many characters acting completely idiotic in this second season it's really dragging me down. The Innovators (gawd knows why anyone would want to become like them) are so annoying on so many levels and Ribbons is a total fool. Saji's character arc is being stretched out for far longer than there is material worth writing about him. Anew's arc was so predictable and I wasn't the least bit convinced by Lyle's emotional plot. Wang Liu Mei and Hong Long feel totally extraneous at this point in the story. There is also far less interesting strategy in this season and the battles aren't nearly as engaging as first season was. Specifically, I think Gundam 00 "used up" most of the good tech advances and/or match-ups in the first season. Plus the Trans-Am system has become pedestrian from excessive use. On the plus side, the story that culminated in episode 17 was fantastic. I liked the clash of political wills and the depths to which the A-Laws will sink to ensure victory. There was plenty of tragic losses in this part of the story and I like all the forces coming together to save the city. I found the story of Hank Hercule and Segei Smirnov quite fascinating. The show did a good job of contrasting the good-intentioned motives of each and the unfortunate conflict between the two opposing viewpoints of men who are both trying to do the right thing. Gundam is at it's best when you have two likable characters on opposing sides who the audience can relate to and sympathize with. It adds so much gravitas to the drama and the battles. I also have to say it's a welcome sight to see Graham back in action against Setsunna. Can't wait to watch episode 22 to see how the cliffhanger turns out. I'm still invested in watching all of second season to the end, but I think first season of Gundam 00 was much more impressive. Maybe the final episodes will pick up, but I'll have to watch and see.

I don't think I've thanked any of the staff here at MW, except Graham and azrael for submissions and fact help. Perhaps it doesn't count since you've already brought it up, but for what it's worth, thanks to all the MW staff for moderating these forums. Better late than never, I hope

Perhaps, but personally, I don't trust them to leave well enough alone. I'd rather go without a re-worked SDF Macross series than take the chance they'll revise SDF Macross and dump the original work. My ultimate dream would be to see the original preserved and re-released forever in tandem with a re-worked version, but that's an optimal situation unlikely to happen, IMO. Perhaps I'm just to reactionary after the old days of Robodreck, but that's my position.

As long as I have my choice of productions, I don't care about changes. If Kawamori want's to re-write SDF Macross differently from the original Studio Nue vision and into peace, love and flowers, let him. If Big West wants to completely reanimate SDF Macross and model all the Valkyries and ships in CGI, more power to them. If they want to reanimate SDF Macross for the purposes of a re-imagining of the series, go ahead. I only have one condition: the original, unedited SDF Macross series must remain available for purchase AND made available upon on each new video format in the future. That's it. Because as long as the original SDF Macross endures and is treated with respect, a thousand lousy sequels, remakes, revisions, re-imaginings or re-animations can't hurt when I still have the option to buy the original. Listen to the wisdom of Ridley Scott; release all the Blade Runner versions in one big set and let the fans sort it out. It works.

VF-11B Thunderbolt and the VF-17 Nightmare in one issue! Yahoo

That's the problem with going back and revising. Every fan has a different idea of what should be replaced and what shouldn't be. Even some of the awful animated scenes in the original SDF Macross series work well as they were intended. Not many, mind you, but some do. If Kawamori and Co. decided to reanimate ALL the poor animation in SDF Macross (such as many of STAR PRO's episodes), some scenes that shouldn't be reanimated will be. And where do they draw the line at the Studio Nue episodes? Some of them are better than others, but a few scenes could use re-working. And what if one or two sequences are re-worked such that they significantly change things? It doesn't take much. That would be awful! Plus, Kawamori, doesn't have the same sensibilities now as he had back in 1982. Just sounds like a bad idea. I'd love improved animation for SDF Macross as much as the next fan, but too many things can go wrong.

Well, let's use a little perspective. I mean, it was ages ago when I laid out $250 for the SDF Macross Animeigo set. It's not like I'm dropping $250 a day, yes? Besides, I doubt we'll ever see that kind of cost for a set ever again. Blu-Ray or not, I ain't paying another $250 for SDF Macross

Hey, I plopped down $250 for the set too and I'd do it again. I've no regrets. But that's way in the past now. I'd go for a Blu-Ray SDF Macross set, no question about it.

Okay, the file works on my media player at home, but not at work. Weirdness. Anyway, thanks again akt_m. If you improve or update your animation, please let me know so I can update my site as well.

Now that I have a high resolution LCD monitor/TV, I'm beginning to see the limitations of DVD much more clearly. I'd definitely go Blu-Ray for an SDF Macross set.