RosarioLuv Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) There's gotta be a way to make a perfect transformable VF-0 TOY...just gotta. If anyone has seen the latest issue of Degenki Hobby, there are GLORIOUS pics there of fan-made conversions of the 1/72 Hasegawa kits for the VF-0 and SV-51 in bot mode...I was't sure because I was pressed for time, but I THINK they were transformable.... There are like 6-8 full colour pages of Macross Zero kitbashing goodness there, including a buildup of a VF-0D! I didn't have the cash to buy the mag today, but I don't have a scanner anyway to scan it for ya.....(hint hint, GRAHAM!). Post those pics! At least we can drool and pretend those bot modes are 1/72 toys! Edited July 22, 2004 by redemption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 That issue (July) is not the latest issue of Dengeki Hobby. August is the latest issue, well at least until the September issue is published in Japan this weekend I have the July issue and will eventually get it added to the MW magazine section. However, the new baby is leaving me with no free time to do stuff for MW at the moment though And no, those VF-0S Battroid and SV-51 Battroid conversions featured in that issue are not transformable. Here a topic I started in the MW Model Forum on May 23rd about the July issue of Dengeki Hobby. Some pictures of the battroid conversions and the custom VF-0 Reactive Armor are included. Somebody else also started another topic on the same thing about a month later.....slackers Oh and yes technically, there should be no problem for a competant toy maker to design a perfect variable VF-0 toy. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane29 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I never realized how sticklike the 51 is, still, the Ivanov type is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosarioLuv Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Doh! Sorry Graham. I looked for the mag in the mag section of MW, but didn't see it, so I thought this was news. I been outta the loop for 2 years until just the past couple weeks. Missed that one. Feel free to just bump the other thread and DELETE this one, save space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I never realized how sticklike the 51 is, still, the Ivanov type is awesome. Yeah, I guess it looks a little chunkier in the show due to AnimeMagic . Hope the forthcoming Yamato toys look better. Hell, I hope they look as good. OK, I just hope they come out. OH MY GOD!! I've just realised -- Yamato are gonna mess the SV-51 up, aren't they, just like they screwed up the VF-0!! They're gonna make everything removable... nooo!! Dammit, I don't give a crap about the Zero, but the 51 NEEDS a good sculpt!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I also have a feeling that Yamato will really mess up an SV-51, if they even bother to make one. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) I also have a feeling that Yamato will really mess up an SV-51, if they even bother to make one. Graham "IF"?? Edited July 22, 2004 by Renato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I also have a feeling that Yamato will really mess up an SV-51, if they even bother to make one. Graham man, that sucks... even more than the VF-0, I would love a SV-51... I just love the design. oh well, if yamato doesn't want to do right by us anymore, than I hope big west gives the contract over to someone else... but I'm still hopeful... I think yamato will come out with some cool stuff after the monster gets released, I think they just don't want to flood the market with too many high ticket items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Images!!!! At the con I think it was Xstoys who told me that people were able to make a Battroid out of the VF-0S kit when I was looking at the building instructions of the kit I bought from Kevin. I'd like to try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I also love the SV-51, but it's probably not the easiest mecha to make into a transforming toy. I also think there is a lot of anime magic that goes on during the transformation, that along with the skinny limbs and wing folding may all add up to a toy that is very difficult to design with perfect transformation, while remaining durable and reasonably proportionally accurate in all three modes. Plus I bet figuring out how to do Nora's paint scheme on a mass-production toy is giving Yamato a real headache. All those yellow markings would look awful as Yamato quality stickers. I honestly can't see the factory in China doing a good job painting them on. Frankly, the only way to go for the markings on Nora's SV-51 is Tampo printing, but Yamato have historically only been willing to use the absolute minimum Tampo printed markings, compared to say Bandai's GFF Gundam line which are absolutely saturated with Tampo printed markings. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 hmm, those are some really good points... maybe it will be necessary to use die cast metal in order to have the strenght and durability needed for some of those limbs? I'm looking at my sould of chogokin eva's and the die cast is very well sculpted... really makes the die cast on the mac plus toys seem blockish and rudimentary. And is it a factory limitation on the tampo printing? I ask because hasbro/takara use tons of it on their transformers and it doesn't seem to affect cost too much... economies of scale aside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 And is it a factory limitation on the tampo printing? I ask because hasbro/takara use tons of it on their transformers and it doesn't seem to affect cost too much... economies of scale aside... I think it's a cost issue and talking of economies of scale, remember Yamato will sell far few toys than say Hasbro/Takara or Bandai. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) I'll bring it up again: 500-unit runs of $20 model planes from companies run by 3 or 4 guys can have 8-color tampo-printing. I doubt Yamato couldn't afford it for larger runs of costlier planes with only like 2 colors needed... And there's always the $4 model train boxcars with multi-color tampo printing... All we ask is the logo and the numbers and "UN SPACY" really for about 99% of valks. Nora's would be an exception and I'd gladly pay a few bucks extra to avoid decals. Edited July 22, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawjaw Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Maybe Yamato should just do no transformable planes and battroids for the Mac0 valkyries. I would rather have a good looking non-transformer than a not-so-good looking-lego-type "transformer". I hope Yamato gives us a sv-51 toy but I am also afraid it will be worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstoys Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Images!!!! At the con I think it was Xstoys who told me that people were able to make a Battroid out of the VF-0S kit when I was looking at the building instructions of the kit I bought from Kevin. I'd like to try that. Nope, I think you're mistaken. It wasn't me who made that claim... Although, with a little experimentation, I might be able to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Given it's nature, Parts swapping for the SV-51 would be ok, again, because of the way they designed it. It's hips would be SO hard to make durable in perfect transformation even at 1/72. Die cast bars at 1/60 sure maybe, but on anything smaller forget it. They VF-0 though, there's no reason to have parts swapping. Thinking about it, after looking at that SV-51 kitbash battroid, maybe this was their plan all along. If the 1/100 SV-51 is parts swap, and the 1/100 VF-0 perfect transformation, some people will not realize why, and cry foul. If they're both parts swap, they seem in line with each other for the same series. Sounds cheesy, yeah, but maybe that's the logic here. With parts swapping the SV-51 is quite possible. Maybe they dumbed down the VF-0 to match it in appearance to it's counterpart. We all know that Yamato could make it perfect transformation, but the SV-51 presents a problem for the formula. I do agree though that on 1/100 Tampo printing is a MUST. Especially for the SV-51. More bang for your buck that way. In this light I may look differently at the VF-0, but it's price better correspond to it's quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Maybe Yamato should just do no transformable planes and battroids for the Mac0 valkyries. I would rather have a good looking non-transformer than a not-so-good looking-lego-type "transformer". I hope Yamato gives us a sv-51 toy but I am also afraid it will be worthless. I don't mind the small amount of part-swapping and leg-moving on the 1/60 VF-1's, but with the amount of swapping on the VF-0, I agree. If they can't get "anime accurate" transformation out of the VF-0 and SV-51 in a given scale, I'd rather have separate figures. Maybe they could just have a battroid and a fighter which transforms to gerwalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosarioLuv Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Maybe they could just have a battroid and a fighter which transforms to gerwalk. I'd settle for that....makes me miss my beloved Gakken Die Cast Alpha Fighter that only transformed between Battroid and Gerwalk modes. I would LOVE to own another, even if it doesn't transform to fighter. Read About its Demise HERE. if you've never heard the story. So sad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel's Fury Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I also have a feeling that Yamato will really mess up an SV-51, if they even bother to make one. Graham "IF"?? "IF"?? they make the entire Mac 0 line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 To be fair to Yamato, there has been no line-art published publically yet of the VF-0's transformation sequence, which may be one reason why they went the parts swapping route rather than perfect transformation. Although if Kawamori has drawn the line-art, then Yamato certainly should have access to it through Big West. Also, the VF-0 is such a close cousin of the VF-1, with such a similar transformation sequence that figuring out how it transforms hardly takes a genius! Anyway, I guess I can live with the parts swapping on the 1/100 VF-0S toy, but what I find really inexcusable is the poor sculpt, which is completely inaccurate in many areas, as has been discussed many times in this forum in the past. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 You know, there is a damn good animated sequence in Macross Zero that shows the transformation. Why not just use that as a reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Pinche Haro! Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 actually i really wish big west would distribute a macross zero "sketch book" or something of that sort so we could see all the engineering behind the vf-0...all i know is that the vf-0 uses an internal swing bar simular to what the 1/48 vf-1's have and the chest section folds over the whole cockpit instead of going half way and deploying a heatsheild (my like the vf-2's) but besides the fact that the legs don't "detatch" and there isn't a heatsheild that goes down...both transformation sequences are pretty much the same i'm not sure if any of this makes sense...but hey, at least i tried....and maybe the transformation is more complicated than we really know... and i don't see why there'd be any reason why yamato wouldn't have access to CG models that studio nue/big west drew up for the last few minutes of macross zero where roy is fighting some cannon fodder sv-51 pilot... it's possible to make a perfect transformation vf-0 and it would be difficult to make a perfect transformation sv-51....but honestly, i don't mind part swapping if the end result looks better than it would in perfect transformation... i really wish yamato would make a version of the yf-19 that'd look great in all modes...i really don't care if there's a lot of part swapping...i think that's the only thing really turning me off to the version of the yf/vf-19 that yamato has already produced....just because of the "perfect transformation" of the toy it doesn't look great in all modes except battroid.... okay...enough of my ranting...i'm going to bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 The VF-0 swing bars as shown in episode # 1 of the anime would be too thin for a toy and would have to be made thicker. Also, I think the legs are still supposed to connect to the noescone somehow in battroid mode. Hopefully, somebody will publish a Macross Zero artbook after episode # 5 comes out on 22nd October. Perhaps a 'This Is Animation Special' book? Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Pinche Haro! Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 honestly i would take just about anything...i'm actually really curious now to how the vf-0 actually transforms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 The swing bar on the VF-0 could be done in metal, much like the 1/48's. I don't think that would be too weak for a toy. Now if it was made of plastic, then yes, it would break on the first attempt. Let me see if I can come up with a drawing this weekend to show you how I think the swing bar would work. At least when I visualize it in my head, it doesn't seem to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 If you see the computer schematic in the cockpit as the VF-0 transforms, you see the hip joints activate as well at the same time as the arms. The legs are definately supposed to attatch to the nose cone like on the vf-1. Just with the extra fuselage length, they went with the swing bar route for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Notice too how the hip swing bars also move away from the body to allow them to swing past the cockpit. This can easily be done on the toy as well. They will just need to "friction lock" against the sensor nubs on the nose (the same place the bar inserts on the 1/48's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 The VF-0 swing bars as shown in episode # 1 of the anime would be too thin for a toy and would have to be made thicker. Actually, the bars would have to be thicker to make it work especially if these really existed and transformed like that. I don't know if there is a metal out there that can support that much weight at that size. And imagine what would happen if a transformation was done in mid-flight? The pressure alone would cause it to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 (edited) The VF-0 swing bars as shown in episode # 1 of the anime would be too thin for a toy and would have to be made thicker. Actually, the bars would have to be thicker to make it work especially if these really existed and transformed like that. I don't know if there is a metal out there that can support that much weight at that size. And imagine what would happen if a transformation was done in mid-flight? The pressure alone would cause it to break. Yeah, I thought stress cracks galore when I saw that thing transform. Edited July 23, 2004 by Anubis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 The VF-0 swing bars as shown in episode # 1 of the anime would be too thin for a toy and would have to be made thicker. Also, I think the legs are still supposed to connect to the noescone somehow in battroid mode.Hopefully, somebody will publish a Macross Zero artbook after episode # 5 comes out on 22nd October. Perhaps a 'This Is Animation Special' book? Graham I don't get it. Banpresto can do it, so why can't Yamato? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Pinche Haro! Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 i guess yamato could make one large bar for both legs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Actually, the bars could operate much like the "chunky monkey" valks, except I would have them slide into the cockpit, rather than leaving them exposed. I would also have them painted to match the valk so they weren't visible. Both bars could be attached by way of a smaller bar that allowed them to slide away from the body, allowing them to swing past the cockpit. Similar to how the 1/48's work, but much easier to transform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 if the swing bars are that much trouble, why not use a system like the 1/48 VF-1 has and just make the swing bars decorative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ido Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 The 1/48 system may be good but the chest plate cannot close very well and a lot of gap remain, i don't know if os the system or the toy's design... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 The 1/48 system may be good but the chest plate cannot close very well and a lot of gap remain, i don't know if os the system or the toy's design... I think this may be an isolated occurance, because there really aren't any gaps anywhere in the chest region on my 1/48's. Everything seems to fit nice and tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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