David Hingtgen Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Unlike most Super Flanker videos, this one's of very high quality, though they tend not to show the recovery of the moves: http://bemil.chosun.com/movie%20link/SU-35.wmv Well worth the download. Doing "manuevers"---like most Flanker moves, a lot of the stuff isn't named yet, and I can't describe them, other than "holy sh*t". http://www.archakov.com/video/su37.mpeg Low quality (quick download), but still the single most impressive thing I've ever seen. 1 minute in: a *double* kulbit manuever. Think 4 cobras semlessly linked together PS--you know, since smoke tends to trail out from BEHIND a plane, imagine what must have happened in the preceding 2 secs before this pic was taken: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 neat manuvoring, but god damn if the editing on that first video isn't annoying. where's that plane from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel's Fury Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Dave, one word to describe it, "COOL!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted April 24, 2004 Author Share Posted April 24, 2004 (edited) Yeah, it's edited like a WWE match IMHO. Show move, then crowd reaction. Repeat. Anyways--most Su-35/37 demos are from a big European airshow (Paris, Farnborough), though that one strikes me as likely being at a US base in Japan etc. Plane itself is Russian Air Force. Many Su-27 demos you see will be from the Ukrainian Air Force. Edited April 24, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 aside from being flashy, what good is that manuver other than the theoretical dog fight. would that help dodge missles or soemthing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted April 24, 2004 Author Share Posted April 24, 2004 Hey hey, this was supposed to be an "ooh and awe" thread at the fancy moves. Not a tactical air combat manuevers discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ooooooo aaaahhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I thought manuevering like that would be IMPOSSIBLE! I am in absolute AWE NEVER thought I would see anything like that outside of the aerobatic prop shows Come on-only $12,000! It would be WORTH IT http://www.moscowaircraft.com/ http://www.incredible-adventures.com/ S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Hunter D Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Holy frickin cow. Um, I mean oooohh, ahhhhhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Just the sheer fact that the damn thing can do all that is awe-inspiring. That, and warning bells should be ringing, cue the "do we need the F-22" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechafan Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 (edited) That is nice. I did not know planes could turn that sharply. It can almost turn on a dime. Edited April 25, 2004 by Mechafan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeKaioshin Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Please, you try that "Cobra" manuever on a F-16, and the 16 will come around blow that Flanker away. You don't ever want to slow your energy and speed in a dogfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 How the Phuck can it do that? I mean, he pulls nose up, and the plane almost comes to a stop it seems, then all of the sudden, it flops over on it's back... Is it the vectoring nozzles that do that? The video is of crappy enough quality, that I can't make out what the flaps are doing, but that flip has got to be coming from thrust. Someone 'splain this to me, I'm an aviation moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Same here... but that is freaking cool as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Major Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Is it the vectoring nozzles that do that? Yeah thats the vectoring nozzles at work, after all when moving like that the control surfaces become nothing more than mush.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Is it the vectoring nozzles that do that? Yeah thats the vectoring nozzles at work, after all when moving like that the control surfaces become nothing more than mush.... Especially when the aircraft is almost totally vertical, that big delta wing becomes a sail at that point. And what's with the size of the tailfins on that bad boy?? All in all, it's a neat maneuver, but I wonder if it has an application beyond pure showmanship. It's done at pretty low speeds in those vids, and I bet if you pulled it at high speed you'd start shearing stuff off the aircraft. So I wonder if that is a combat maneuver or just something that shows off what the plane can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorClone Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 wow, that pilot flies like he's training to be ready for the first VF-1 the way he's making the plane almost stop mid-flight is like the VF-1 deploying it's legs to reverse thrust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 the flanker can do that WITHOUT the thrust vectoring boys. thrust vectoring just adds more punch. It is able to do this because it can do high alpha and because of its LERXes. the leading extensions near the cockpit that are also on the VF-0. the mig 29 can do it as well and its affirmed that the fulcrum was the first to pull off the cobra,,,ukhoi g3ets more credit since it populariazed it and shcoked the world in 1989 farnborough when pugachev pulled it off to the public in an Su27. it also helps that at that high of an angle of attack and slow speed, the flankers engines do NOT tend to stall and keep running. F-18s do something similar at low speed where they keep going forard with the nose tilted up at 30 degrees. I saw it at oceana before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Please, you try that "Cobra" manuever on a F-16, and the 16 will come around blow that Flanker away. You don't ever want to slow your energy and speed in a dogfight. One purpose that might be useful is to aid in fooling IR missiles. But I really don't know that much about these things. All in all, a very cool manuver for a very cool plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 (edited) 6 hours later, I'm still amazed I saw a plane do that. That's just...damn. Reminds me of the autoslide from Wing Commander. Edited April 26, 2004 by Anubis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted April 26, 2004 Author Share Posted April 26, 2004 (edited) 1. Despite being the biggest fighter, it's almost as unstable as an F-16. Unstable=really wants to pitch up, rapidly. (it is not technically unstable--an F-16 is barely unstable, a Flanker is as barely stable as it can be, without being *un*stable. It's like +.01% stable) 2. Vectoring helps, but isn't all. Raw engine power is a bigger factor. Mainly, Flankers have massive tailfins, set well back. Basically, it pitches up so rapidly, and has so much energy/interia from its massive thrust, that it keeps going whichever direction was going, despite twisting about its axis. Think about a somesaulting gymnest in midair--they can twist about in all directions in midair, but they will overall keep going the way they were going when they launched into the air. This is the same thing, just with 25 tons of metal. So to do a kulbit, you just give full power and head up, then cut the power back and pull back as hard as you can--you'll keep going up due to inertia, but start flipping due to the very effective tailplanes. More power you have, the more you can flip. 3. You can over-ride the FBW in a Flanker, exceeding the normal limits on pitch rate and G's. (F-22's have had a similar feature installed--more like "normal/high" though, not "normal/whatever you can take") 4. The most commonly pointed out usefullness for all this is to get a missile lock on anybody. It's not defensive, it's offensive. If you can move like that, you can get a missile lock on anybody in any direction. Yes, if you do this defensively, you're likely dead. But if you do a mid-air-180 to lock on to someone and blow them up, you don't have to worry about your lost energy. 5. It's a Flanker. It can recover energy like *that*. Most powerful engines in service tend to let you do that. Same reason F-16's pull 9G all day long--bleeds energy in an instant, but they've got so much power they don't really care. PS--I have seen this on TV. Either TLC or The History Channel. Haven't seen it in a few years though. Even more impressive on a big screen. (if anyone ever sees that its going to be on, post a note here and tape it! Pretty much the whole show is Flankers) I'm going to see if I can find out the name of the show. Edited April 26, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Man that's awesome. I want a model kit of the Super Flanker now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 i wonder if the russian air knights(air demo team) use the Su-37 yet. LAst i saw they were using regular flankers. Anyone seen their shows? I wonder if they pull off this stuff like pugachev does.....not only is it a deadly bird but for a big plane its manueverable AND it is very nice looking. Most russian planes look lke boxes with wings to me so this plane is very very awesome to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 That kind of stuff depresses me, I should have been a pilot, but now I'm an old fart, and the only thing I could ever hope to fly would be a freaking cessna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted April 26, 2004 Author Share Posted April 26, 2004 (edited) I don't know if the Russian Knights are even still flying. There was a terrible crash where they lost half their planes (standard Su-27's). They didn't fly for a while after that, don't know if they ever started up again. The Russian military is to put it mildly "poor" at the moment. There's been practically no post-2000 airshow/demos. They show up at Farnborough/Paris, may do one flight, and that's about it. The simply don't have the cash to show them off. Most Flanker demos were 1995/96/97. PS---want a nice diecast Super Flanker with moving flaps, rudders, brake, canopy? From what I've read, they're well worth the price. And it is a Flanker, so it'd be as big as a 1/60 VF-1, if not larger. http://www.flyingmule.com/Merchant2/mercha...ct_Code=GC-8014 (they are about the only US-distributor, much easier to find in Hong Kong AFAIK, always sold out because everyone wants a Super Flanker) They also have a few other variants--Su-27, Su-34: http://www.flyingmule.com/range/model/diec...aft_collection/ PPS--yes, their site takes a little while to load, but it's nice once it's up, good pics of every model (they take their own), and I've bought from them before. Flankers sell out so fast, ebay might be a better choice, especially for the -35. Edited April 26, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeKaioshin Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 That kind of stuff depresses me, I should have been a pilot, but now I'm an old fart, and the only thing I could ever hope to fly would be a freaking cessna Or you can join the Air Force and work on the engines. Heck, just be friends with the pilots and who knows, you might be doing Immelman (spell?) manuevers in the back seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impreszive Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 I just like the plane. It's one of my favorite foreign aircraft. It was also fun to use in Ace Combat 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilae Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Okay... that was as much a vid of guys with amazingly long lenses as it was about the Super Flanker... but very cool nonetheless.... Question though: Nice to see what THEY have... but what do WE have, and can what WE have do it better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Major Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Well at this point the only thing we have is the F-22 wich washington is trying to cancel. and in my opinion the F-35 would be chewed up and spit out like a mailman's leg after a rabid rotwiler got to it! Anyway the SU-35 is an amaizing piece if aircraft, ive had the pleasure of seeing the thing fly in person, and let me tell you the damn thing almost made me $h!t my self, in one manuver the thing pulled the tightest loop ive ever seen, and was literaly flying backwards and upside down for about 3 seconds before coming out of the loop and heading off in its original direction. Imagine what that would do for you in a dog fight, your enemy jets passed you, you pull that manuver, bam you've fired off a missile and are still flying in the same direction you were when you starded!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Hunter D Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 PS---want a nice diecast Super Flanker with moving flaps, rudders, brake, canopy? From what I've read, they're well worth the price. And it is a Flanker, so it'd be as big as a 1/60 VF-1, if not larger. http://www.flyingmule.com/Merchant2/mercha...ct_Code=GC-8014 (they are about the only US-distributor, much easier to find in Hong Kong AFAIK, always sold out because everyone wants a Super Flanker) They also have a few other variants--Su-27, Su-34: http://www.flyingmule.com/range/model/diec...aft_collection/ PPS--yes, their site takes a little while to load, but it's nice once it's up, good pics of every model (they take their own), and I've bought from them before. Flankers sell out so fast, ebay might be a better choice, especially for the -35. Gawd, I've been waiting so long for that Su-35 to be back in stock. There seems to be something off with the sculpt that I can't put my finger on just yet, but it still looks great. Besides, its probably gonna be the only die-cast Su-35 in the market for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty gorgon Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Oh!!!..... Ahh!!!!... Now, Really GREAT MOVIES of a GREAT PLANE. David, may I point you to www.bradtz.ru (the site is 100% in russian)? they have several movies for each flanker variant... some even 30/40 Mb (for the 35/37 there are 20 clips). I am not sure of the quality however. The site went down when I got my broadband connection, but it is up again (but a bit unstable)... There is one particular movie in which a '37 goes up and does what looks like a "vertical kulbit"... Wow!!! Link for Shukoi here, others (mig, etc) should be 'round there. Cheers, folks, gotta see those movies again! Regds, Gorgon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty gorgon Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 (edited) I assembled this "film strip" from an amateur movie there. The smoke is indicating the direction of movement. For some seconds, the '35 is flying upwards with the belly UPWARDS. Anyone knows the name of this maneuver??? David pointed out the importance of extra power for these maneuvers, but I think that control (canards?) is also important here... Regds, Gorgon Edited April 27, 2004 by mighty gorgon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted April 27, 2004 Author Share Posted April 27, 2004 (edited) My PC hates me tonight, I've tried to reply 3 times. Short, minimal word version of reply: 1. Thanks so much. 2. Worldlingo seems to translate those pages well. http://www.worldlingo.com/products_service...translator.html 3. Many Flanker moves are un-named, that pic sequence is like a version of a Herbst turn, or even a Hook (I have never seen even a video of a Hook, only often read it as "the horiztonal version of the Cobra". It's too "stall+fall" for a Herbst, which is more of a "swing around with vectoring after a Cobra"---this is more like "turn really hard while coming out of a Kulbit" (Those are about the only named "ultra-high-alpha post-stall manuevering" moves there are) PS-do you have the direct link to that vid? I'd like to see it to analyze better. (Most of the translations are simply "demo" "airshow" "manuevers" etc--and I effectively get about 33Kb connection, since the lines here are so bad) Edited April 27, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty gorgon Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 PS-do you have the direct link to that vid? I'd like to see it to analyze better. (Most of the translations are simply "demo" "airshow" "manuevers" etc--and I effectively get about 33Kb connection, since the lines here are so bad) I am at the office right now... this evening, when I go back home I'll send you the direct link. Regds, G. (whan to build that awful Berkut kit RIGTH NOW!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orguss01 Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 DAMN Willis!!! ***ORGUSS O1 rushes to PS-- replay ACE COMBAT>>>>>> i think you can use these moves defensively. ever try to get a lock on Mig right before it stalls? --"over shoot" city probably be better for dogfighting when you both are so close to use Mguns.. long range lock can stil prob shoot down Mig. NICE !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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