Anakin's Starfighter

[Mobyrz]

Hope it turns out exactly like this, would be great to have before ep. III

Here's the article:

http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news/20...0030313.html#14

[bsu legato]

Nope, that's only for the Clone Wars cartoon and the acompanying toys.

Theforce.net has fan renderings based on spy reports and webcam footage that's probably what the new starfighters will look like.

Edit: Here's the best guess as to what it'll look like:

http://cgi.theforce.net/image.cgi?Image=/e...compare_swi.jpg

Edited December 23, 2003 by bsu legato

[Prowlus]

that looks to much like a scimiter assault bomber from the post ROTJ novels

[bsu legato]

that looks to much like a scimiter assault bomber from the post ROTJ novels

I have some much better renderings stashed somewhere. I just need to find 'em for you guys.

Edit: Try this one. Much, much better IMHO.

http://www.galacticsenate.com/index.php?ac...=post&id=326250

Edited December 23, 2003 by bsu legato

[Uxi]

I like the Clone Wars version. A bit inelegant but meaner looking. In fact, think I prefer it to the pseudo-TIE fighter business that's apparently cooking for Episode III...

[KingNor]

I like the Clone Wars version.  A bit inelegant but meaner looking.  In fact, think I prefer it to the pseudo-TIE fighter business that's apparently cooking for Episode III...

word.

i'm sick of the lame foreshadowing

Edited December 24, 2003 by KingNor

[Hoptimus]

Interesting. Definatley heading toward Sienar Fleet Systems. Obviously they are building the Republic Ships now...

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Interesting. Definatley heading toward Sienar Fleet Systems. Obviously they are building the Republic Ships now...

hopefully we'll see some true Victory class destroyers in the next, and maybe even some Dreadnaughts. i think both of those designs look pretty good.

[Graham]

That fighter would have terrible downward visibility and also quite poor rear visibility.

One of the reason I started going off Star Wars ship designs years ago is that I don't think their ships are particulaly well thought out or practical. IMO, they are designed for visual appeal only.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

That fighter would have terrible downward visibility and also quite poor rear visibility.

One of the reason I started going off Star Wars ship designs years ago is that I don't think their ships are particulaly well thought out or practical. IMO, they are designed for visual appeal only.

Graham

I think that was always the intention. I believe that Star Wars was never meant to be technically accurate, but more visually appealing.

But there's another dynamic going on here- Surprisingly enough, my father, my niece's godfather and myself were discussing this very matter and the fact that the more technically advanced fighters become, the less pilot's will rely on an actual field of vision and will rely more on artificially obtained information in the operation of the vehicle.

In Macross, the fighter modes have highly vulnerable canopies simply because Kawamori is paying homage to modern and recent aircraft. Realistically, if the pilot is able to operate the VF in battriod mode via viewscreens while being protected by armor, it's simply silly to assume that he shouldn't be able to pilot the VF in fighter mode in the same manner but is needlessly exposed due to a prerequisite need for a glass/clear canopy.

Just a thought.

[Graham]

Back when I first saw A New Hope as a kid in 1977, I was blown away by the 'wow' factor and really loved the SW ship designs.

But as I got older, I started to think more and more about how impractical they really are.

The TIE fighter is probably the worst from a pilot's perspective. It has no side visibility, extremely limited top visibility, No rear visibility (or is there a tiny window at the back, I forget?). Even the forward visibilty is crap as it has that heavy canopy frame blocking a lot of the view. Yes, it looks cool, as you said 'visual appeal', but practical, no way jose!

And don't get me started on the Millenium Falcon! A space freighter......yeah right! My office desk drawer has more cargo capacity than that ship.

As for the canopies in Macross, I doubt they are made of regular glass or polycarbonate (or whatever fighter canopies are made of these days). They are probably some sort of OTM material as they seem very tough. IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

[Lindem Herz]

Realistically, if the pilot is able to operate the VF in battriod mode via viewscreens while being protected by armor, it's simply silly to assume that he shouldn't be able to pilot the VF in fighter mode in the same manner but is needlessly exposed due to a prerequisite need for a glass/clear canopy.

Hum... the Varuta fighters do that.

[Pat Payne]

IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

IIRC, didn't Hikaru do the same stunt by accident in ep. 2?

[Anubis]

IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

IIRC, didn't Hikaru do the same stunt by accident in ep. 2?

Or in ep 1 of sdf macross when the vf-1d slid on its canopy on the ground.

Kuat Drive Yards built the starships (Star Destroyers, both Victory class and the other classes)

Seinar Flight Systems built the Ties.

I forgot who built the Lambda Shuttles. Kuat?

For impractical designs, how about the Tie Tank? P.O.C.

Edited December 24, 2003 by Anubis

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Back when I first saw A New Hope as a kid in 1977, I was blown away by the 'wow' factor and really loved the SW ship designs.

But as I got older, I started to think more and more about how impractical they really are.

The TIE fighter is probably the worst from a pilot's perspective. It has no side visibility, extremely limited top visibility, No rear visibility (or is there a tiny window at the back, I forget?). Even the forward visibilty is crap as it has that heavy canopy frame blocking a lot of the view. Yes, it looks cool, as you said 'visual appeal', but practical, no way jose!

And don't get me started on the Millenium Falcon! A space freighter......yeah right! My office desk drawer has more cargo capacity than that ship.

As for the canopies in Macross, I doubt they are made of regular glass or polycarbonate (or whatever fighter canopies are made of these days). They are probably some sort of OTM material as they seem very tough. IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

yep. the TIE's have a small window in back.

[Anubis]

Back when I first saw A New Hope as a kid in 1977, I was blown away by the 'wow' factor and really loved the SW ship designs.

But as I got older, I started to think more and more about how impractical they really are.

The TIE fighter is probably the worst from a pilot's perspective. It has no side visibility, extremely limited top visibility, No rear visibility (or is there a tiny window at the back, I forget?). Even the forward visibilty is crap as it has that heavy canopy frame blocking a lot of the view. Yes, it looks cool, as you said 'visual appeal', but practical, no way jose!

And don't get me started on the Millenium Falcon! A space freighter......yeah right! My office desk drawer has more cargo capacity than that ship.

As for the canopies in Macross, I doubt they are made of regular glass or polycarbonate (or whatever fighter canopies are made of these days). They are probably some sort of OTM material as they seem very tough. IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

yep. the TIE's have a small window in back.

You mean they don't have a 360 degree display a la Zeta Gundam???!!!

Yeah, I know my joke sucked.

Edited December 24, 2003 by Anubis

[gnollman]

I should think that advanced space combat should have much less to do with actual pilot visibility and much more about sensors and electronic targeting...

Hell, even today, a Tomcat can shoot missiles at targets it can't even see... what does visibility have to do with missile combat? unless you're dodging missiles, that is....

[JsARCLIGHT]

I don't know... I'm still a jaded SW fan but I like that design.

It sort of speaks to the point of the ships moving away from the sleek, artistic, hand-crafted "classic" style and more towards the mass-produced, cold and emotionless fleet vehicles of the Empire. The blue and white Anakin fighter from the cartoon is still too stylized to convey the transformation of the "Army of the Republic" into the "Army of the Empire". Then again, by the time this movie comes about (timeline speaking) the older ships may all have been blowed up real good in the clone wars leaving the new mass-produced models to take their place?

... and when it comes to plausibility, we are talking about the same show with laser swords, magic power weilding samurai-esque warriors, robot armies, fake cripple ninja masters, bad acting and lots and lots of lucrative commercial tie-ins?

[Anubis]

I don't know... I'm still a jaded SW fan but I like that design.

It sort of speaks to the point of the ships moving away from the sleek, artistic, hand-crafted "classic" style and more towards the mass-produced, cold and emotionless fleet vehicles of the Empire. The blue and white Anakin fighter from the cartoon is still too stylized to convey the transformation of the "Army of the Republic" into the "Army of the Empire". Then again, by the time this movie comes about (timeline speaking) the older ships may all have been blowed up real good in the clone wars leaving the new mass-produced models to take their place?

... and when it comes to plausibility, we are talking about the same show with laser swords, magic power weilding samurai-esque warriors, robot armies, fake cripple ninja masters, bad acting and lots and lots of lucrative commercial tie-ins?

All very true.

[Mr March]

Nope, that's only for the Clone Wars cartoon and the acompanying toys.

Theforce.net has fan renderings based on spy reports and webcam footage that's probably what the new starfighters will look like.

Edit: Here's the best guess as to what it'll look like:

http://cgi.theforce.net/image.cgi?Image=/e...compare_swi.jpg

Very nice! That's a great merging of classic and prequel technology. Very Star Wars-ish

[Mr March]

Back when I first saw A New Hope as a kid in 1977, I was blown away by the 'wow' factor and really loved the SW ship designs.

But as I got older, I started to think more and more about how impractical they really are.

The TIE fighter is probably the worst from a pilot's perspective. It has no side visibility, extremely limited top visibility, No rear visibility (or is there a tiny window at the back, I forget?). Even the forward visibilty is crap as it has that heavy canopy frame blocking a lot of the view. Yes, it looks cool, as you said 'visual appeal', but practical, no way jose!

And don't get me started on the Millenium Falcon! A space freighter......yeah right! My office desk drawer has more cargo capacity than that ship.

Graham

That depends on what ships you're talking about and assuming the ships of Star Wars need to rely on visuals like the comparatively primitive fighters of our modern militaries. The Imperial's basic Star Destroyer design is actually one of the most simple and practical capital ship hulls to ever appear in any science fiction film or show.

Both the pilots of X-Wings and Tie Fighters have been seen using artificial displays for in flight target acquisition. If you've got that (even under intense sensor jamming common in Star Wars) there's little need to look out the nearest window. In the case of high speed/long range combat, visual targetting limited to the line-of-sight of the human eye is actually a disadvantage.

Edited December 24, 2003 by Mr March

[Mr March]

As for the canopies in Macross, I doubt they are made of regular glass or polycarbonate (or whatever fighter canopies are made of these days). They are probably some sort of OTM material as they seem very tough. IIRC when Guld caused Isamu's VF-11B to crash in Macross Plus, didn't it skid upside down for quite a while and the canopy still stayed intact?

Graham

Very true. The canopies in Macross fighters have survived impacts and damage that would crush any conventional substance our current military hardware use for canopies. Hikaru's many crashes, Hikaru's dive through a bridge in DYRL?, Isamu's crash in the VF-11, et cetera.

[Uxi]

SW starfighters are clearly seen using "targeting computers" even against other starfighters. Visibility isn't needed for a pure space fighter, as the TIE is. And partly it's in their paradigm to be rather expendable. They horde and attack en masse, using numbers and the presence of their carriers (Star Destroyers) to overwhelm the opposition.

The OTM "overtech" is a blatant crutch and application of (Arthur C) Clarke's Law. It's always used to explain the things that don't pass the bullshit test. In this case it's canopies and hints of Star Trek's "transparent aluminum" or something. In any case, realism when combined with transforming robots is almost an oxymoron.

[GobotFool]

In any case, realism when combined with transforming robots is almost an oxymoron.

Word!

[bsu legato]

Wait....are you guys saying that Star Wars isn't real?

Anyway, here's a scan of the new starfighter from the latest Insider magazine. I've cropped a bunch of empty stage from the pic so it wouldn't be too terribly huge.

[the white drew carey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know the canopies in Macross are "curiously strong" (I chalk it up to anime magic more than anything else)...

But I hope you get the point I was making in reference to sensor-obtained information replacing the old eyeballing.