Am I alone, or am I just old?

[buffalostyle]

Maybe it's as simple as this: we placed SDFM on a pedestal so freakin high, that anything else pales in comparison. I think nostalgia plays a big role....

Bingo!!! I agree completely...it is so very difficult to compete with nostalgia and most people will write something new off because it didn't grab them as much as the original did. It is very rare for a sequel brought out several years later to compete with the original as you have YEARS of memories to account for.

[peter]

I just saw the new Macross Pachinko game and I have to say, it was really emotional for me to see new footage of original imagery. Original mechs, characters, just new graphics, new animation techniques. Exactly what I asked for...except it was too short, too little. But it's proof that original designs can be re-made, it can be re-animated, and it can be made to look incredibly cool. Same with the Yamato pachinko game - wicked animation of original characters and ships.

So, enough of the remakes with crappy redesigns a la MB's Transformers. Give us the originals, there's nothing wrong with the original designs....they just need a little polish.

SDFM needs a polish, and the VF-1J looked so badass in the pachinko promo, I felt like going out to buy a 1/48 or 1/60.

[ShadowValkyrie]

I loved me some "Frontier", hell I even enjoyed Macross 7 and Macross II (don't hurt me). But if I had to make the Sophie's Choice, yeah, I'm going to stick with SDF Macross every time. Sure it's partly out of nostalgia (I'm sure a lot of it is given the period of my life that Macross came into and the escape it allowed) but it's also something about the story itself that...well it's hard for to explain other than it is the Macross story and everything is just feels like something lesser; still good, still solid, but just not as good as the original.

[dreamweaver13]

Here's something that would be interesting:

If we can find someone whose first intro into the macross world was Macross Frontier (had absolutely no idea what macross was all about), watched MF, LOVED it, and decided to watch SDFM as a result, just to get a better background of the macross universe -- would he:

a) think that SDFM was cool, but pales in comparison to this cool new show called MF; or

b) think that while MF was cool, SDFM was way WAY cooler, and MF was just a pale imitation of this kick-a$$ original series.

Anyone?

[Gubaba]

Here's something that would be interesting:

If we can find someone whose first intro into the macross world was Macross Frontier (had absolutely no idea what macross was all about), watched MF, LOVED it, and decided to watch SDFM as a result, just to get a better background of the macross universe -- would he:

a) think that SDFM was cool, but pales in comparison to this cool new show called MF; or

b) think that while MF was cool, SDFM was way WAY cooler, and MF was just a pale imitation of this kick-a$$ original series.

Anyone?

It's happening as we speak:

http://that.animeblogger.net/category/anime/sdf-macross/

[dreamweaver13]

It's happening as we speak:

http://that.animeblogger.net/category/anime/sdf-macross/

As Spock would say, "Fascinating".

EDIT: I'm having fun reading his blog. it's quite a new perspective, one that i've always been curious about. I wonder what his final opinion will be by the end of SDFM. Thanks for the link.

Edited October 26, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[Bri]

Great read, interesting experience to see the story unfold through a new viewers eyes, thanks for posting that link.

[dreamweaver13]

Great read, interesting experience to see the story unfold through a new viewers eyes, thanks for posting that link.

It's like watching SDFM for the first time all over again.

[Gubaba]

It's like watching SDFM for the first time all over again.

But funnier!

[dreamweaver13]

But funnier!

Oh definitely.

[VFTF1]

If we can find someone whose first intro into the macross world was Macross Frontier (had absolutely no idea what macross was all about), watched MF, LOVED it, and decided to watch SDFM as a result, just to get a better background of the macross universe -- would he:

a) think that SDFM was cool, but pales in comparison to this cool new show called MF; or

b) think that while MF was cool, SDFM was way WAY cooler, and MF was just a pale imitation of this kick-a$$ original series.

As I noted to Gubaba in a pm, I have also noticed that lots of lovely young girls were brought into the world of Macross for the first time via Macross Frontier, which, if you think about it, has much for a girl to appreciate.

Pete

[durask]

Hmm...and of course, all of this is strictly IMHO.

I was too young to watch Robotech when it was on TV (and in any case, it didn't play on TV in the country where I am originally from, as far as i know). I am not even sure I was around then

When I started watching anime, I was in the US and I never got around to watching Macross because I had no access to subbed Macross and I heard all kinds of horrible things about Robotech.

I watched Macross Plus when it came out and was not impressed, to me it seemed like usual basic generic anime (with above average budget). Also watched Macross II and once again, thought it was your usual generic sci-fi stuff. This kinda put me off anything Macross related for a while. I watched first episode of Macross Zero when it came out and while it looked better than Plus and II, it wasn't enough to hold my interest.

I downloaded Frontier and haven't touched it for a while, then eventually when I had nothing to watch, I started watching it and I thought it was pretty good. Granted, it suffers from a ton of stereotypes and cliches that are there because these stereotypes and cliches are what a large portion of otaku population really wants (same old s**t with slightly different tasting sauce). 99% of anime is like that, anyway, so you try to ignore it and see if there is enough good stuff in the show to justify watching it.

In any case, I liked Frontier well enough to go back and give my saved episodes of Macross Zero a try and actually it turned out much better than I expected.

I tried Macross 7 but I couldn't stomach more than 4 episodes.

And finally a month ago I bought the original Macross AD Vision DVDs from various online stores (no single store carried them all). I didn't have very high expectations, in fact I expected to see something old and cheesy beyound belief.

I was very surprised. True, animation is, ahem, dated, but still quite passable and the art itself is good. Story and characters are as good if not better than any modern stuff out there. Sure, you can find a million plot holes, bad science and inconsistencies, but you can nit pick pretty much any show to death if you want, the bottom line is: is it entertaining despite its flaws, and I thought it was certainly at least as good as Frontier. What impressed me the most about the original Macross is how well it aged and how watchable it is despite it being a 30 year old show. Most anime from that time looks laughably bad today.

So, if you were to ask me, which Macross do you like the best, I would say that it's a tie between Frontier and the original series, and I just finished watching the original for the first time a few days ago and I went in with low expectations, to boot.

[VF5SS]

All this Macross 7 hate is just a meme. That show is awesome.

[Gubaba]

All this Macross 7 hate is just a meme. That show is awesome.

Ditto all the "Macross Frontier is all flash and no substance" talk.

[mospeadamacrosstech]

Bingo!!! I agree completely...it is so very difficult to compete with nostalgia and most people will write something new off because it didn't grab them as much as the original did. It is very rare for a sequel brought out several years later to compete with the original as you have YEARS of memories to account for.

You hit the mark.

[hutch]

I'm trying Macross 7 right now...I have to admit that I'm having trouble like Basara...

[VF5SS]

You don't have to like Basara.

The show has at least 20 other characters.

[hutch]

You don't have to like Basara.

The show has at least 20 other characters.

Except Basara sings those same songs that annoy me every single episode. I think it just may not be my bag. Is there LESS Basara as the show goes on?

[Gubaba]

Except Basara sings those same songs that annoy me every single episode. I think it just may not be my bag. Is there LESS Basara as the show goes on?

No, but he starts singing different songs.

Remember, you're MEANT to find Basara annoying at the beginning.

Give it fifteen to twenty episodes...if you still hate it, drop it.

[hutch]

No, but he starts singing different songs.

Remember, you're MEANT to find Basara annoying at the beginning.

Give it fifteen to twenty episodes...if you still hate it, drop it.

Cool. Thanks for the tip, will do. I really want to like the show.

[Gubaba]

Cool. Thanks for the tip, will do. I really want to like the show.

A word of warning...it will never turn into the hardcore mecha show you may be hoping for. It gets more serious as it goes on, but it remains kinda goofy throughout. A lot of Macross fans never make it through the "eye of the needle," as it were.

Think of it as a show about a band with some mecha in it, rather than a show about mecha with a band in it, and you'll probably be happier.

[VF5SS]

I think it has a lot of cool action scenes actually.

[Gubaba]

I think it has a lot of cool action scenes actually.

Yeah, it does. But probably not enough to keep most mechaheads happy. And most of them happen after the halfway point of the series.

[PC Valkyrie]

I haven't posted here in AGES. Originally joined the original Macrossworld back in the early 2000's. Like the OP and a good number of members here, I'm in my mid-late 30's.

Robotech and Transformers introduced me to the concept of transforming mecha, and I have been hooked ever since.

The original SDF Macross TV series had the awesome story, but the most of the animation/visuals pale in comparison to DYRL.

I absolutely LOVE DYRL, and it continues to be my favourite Macross anime. Sure, the story of the Hikaru, Misa, Minmay and the rest are rushed, but I get to enjoy it in 2 hours. And everybody knows it was a visual masterpiece in terms of the hand-drawn anime. The characer designs are the best and the updated VF-1 look was simply awesome. The muscial score of the movie was another plus for me.

Macross II had very nice opening/closing songs, and the animation was pretty good too. I just found the VF's to be not animated with the same amount of "detail" as I would like.

Macross Plus' main strength, in my opinion was the mecha battle scenes........nothing else compares to the hand drawn animated visuals of the YF-19 vs the YF-21, especially during the climatic battle between Isamu and Guld.

Never saw the Macross 7 TV series, but I did see Macross 7 Dynamite and The Galaxy is Calling Me. Let's just say I have no desire to see the TV series, and end it at that.

Macross Zero was a dissappoitment for me too. Didn't like the hand drawn animation style and character designs at all. The mecha looked OK, but it's hard to accept that those designs were supposed to precede the VF-1.

I'm currently 2/3 of the way through watching Macross Frontier. I find the animation style to be a cross between Macross Zero and Macross Plus. I do like the new VF-25's. Visually, it is satisfying.

As most of you can tell, I appreciate the visual aspect of anime and mecha design. A good story helps. With DYRL, there was awesome animation, classic VF-1 design, beautiful character design, while SDF Macross provided the wonderful story. Macross Plus was the Top Gun of Macross and I also enjoyed the mecha action/animation. After that, I did not enjoy Zero and the Dynamite 7/Galaxy is Calling Me. Macross Frontier keeps me interested because of the mecha and to a lesser extent, the story.

Am I getting old?......yes. But I still enjoy Macross Frontier now for mostly the same reasons I enjoyed Macross back in the 1980's. It's just that Macross Zero and 7 seemed to deviate from those aspects of Macross which I like.

[dreamweaver13]

Hmm...and of course, all of this is strictly IMHO.

I was too young to watch Robotech when it was on TV (and in any case, it didn't play on TV in the country where I am originally from, as far as i know). I am not even sure I was around then

When I started watching anime, I was in the US and I never got around to watching Macross because I had no access to subbed Macross and I heard all kinds of horrible things about Robotech.

I watched Macross Plus when it came out and was not impressed, to me it seemed like usual basic generic anime (with above average budget). Also watched Macross II and once again, thought it was your usual generic sci-fi stuff. This kinda put me off anything Macross related for a while. I watched first episode of Macross Zero when it came out and while it looked better than Plus and II, it wasn't enough to hold my interest.

I downloaded Frontier and haven't touched it for a while, then eventually when I had nothing to watch, I started watching it and I thought it was pretty good. Granted, it suffers from a ton of stereotypes and cliches that are there because these stereotypes and cliches are what a large portion of otaku population really wants (same old s**t with slightly different tasting sauce). 99% of anime is like that, anyway, so you try to ignore it and see if there is enough good stuff in the show to justify watching it.

In any case, I liked Frontier well enough to go back and give my saved episodes of Macross Zero a try and actually it turned out much better than I expected.

I tried Macross 7 but I couldn't stomach more than 4 episodes.

And finally a month ago I bought the original Macross AD Vision DVDs from various online stores (no single store carried them all). I didn't have very high expectations, in fact I expected to see something old and cheesy beyound belief.

I was very surprised. True, animation is, ahem, dated, but still quite passable and the art itself is good. Story and characters are as good if not better than any modern stuff out there. Sure, you can find a million plot holes, bad science and inconsistencies, but you can nit pick pretty much any show to death if you want, the bottom line is: is it entertaining despite its flaws, and I thought it was certainly at least as good as Frontier. What impressed me the most about the original Macross is how well it aged and how watchable it is despite it being a 30 year old show. Most anime from that time looks laughably bad today.

So, if you were to ask me, which Macross do you like the best, I would say that it's a tie between Frontier and the original series, and I just finished watching the original for the first time a few days ago and I went in with low expectations, to boot.

Cool! Thanks for the feedback.

[Skullsixx]

38 yrs old. I've loved Macross since I was a kid. But to set the record straight. I cannot watch:

The Original Series due to the lesser animation and designs of DYRL. That's like trying to watch the OLD Buck Rogers after seeing Star Wars!

Macross 2-NO interest.

Mac 7-NO interest.

LOVE:

DYRL

Mac Plus

Mac Zero

Mac Frontier-although I don't dig the character designs as much as the others listed.

[durask]

All this Macross 7 hate is just a meme. That show is awesome.

I don't hate it, it is just that after a few episodes I thought the show was very mediocre.

I am having strong doubts that it would have been a commercial success if it were called "Space Music Fighter Basara"

[MastaEgg]

I can't say I like the direction Kawamori has taken with the series post 80's era, although I suppose it would of been a hell of alot worse without him at the helm.

I've been watching some older Gundam stuff lately and I'm impressed with the way Zeta Gundam continues from where original series left off- it's even better than the first show. You got new characters and story, but you've also got the original cast supporting them and they continuing to develop as well. Macross doesn't have sequels like that. The previous cast sent on their way never to be seen again (well except a few chacaters in Mac7) and then the story jumps another 20 or so years on to humanity's next colonization effort in space, following the same fomula.

I'm not saying Macross should be like Gundam, but I would like to see each series feeling like its a smaller part of a bigger story, rather than a story that repeats itself in the future.

[Bri]

I can't say I like the direction Kawamori has taken with the series post 80's era, although I suppose it would of been a hell of alot worse without him at the helm.

I've been watching some older Gundam stuff lately and I'm impressed with the way Zeta Gundam continues from where original series left off- it's even better than the first show. You got new characters and story, but you've also got the original cast supporting them and they continuing to develop as well. Macross doesn't have sequels like that. The previous cast sent on their way never to be seen again (well except a few chacaters in Mac7) and then the story jumps another 20 or so years on to humanity's next colonization effort in space, following the same fomula.

I'm not saying Macross should be like Gundam, but I would like to see each series feeling like its a smaller part of a bigger story, rather than a story that repeats itself in the future.

but...but...isn't that exactly what Macross does? Different stories set in the same universe slowly unfolding the tale of humanity in a space faring age? It's far less repetative then Gundam that rehashes the earth spacenoid conflict of the UC era in most of it's sequels.

[peter]

All this Macross 7 hate is just a meme. That show is awesome.

Haha, Mac 7 fans are sort of like vegetarians.......my sister-in-law, who is a bitch, is a vegetarian. When we go out to eat, and I order a Keg-size prime rib, cooked fat and bloody, and finish everything on the plate except for the veg, she assumes that I hate all vegetables and anyone who eats them, then goes on a tirade about how I hate her because she's a vegetarian.

Not true. I like vegetables, just not as much as meat, and if I had to fill my stomach with either a nice juicy, prime rib, or bland veggies that were meant to be discarded anyways, I choose the juicy prime rib. And no, I don't hate my sister-in-law because she's a vegetarian, I hate her because she's a bitch.

There are a lot of people in this thread who have been, quite frankly, quite civil towards Mac 7, considering their distaste for it. Personally, I just don't sense the "hate" that people are being accused of here. If someone doesn't like Mac 7, I think it should be okay to express how they feel instead of worrying about offending someone.

[VFTF1]

But I get the feeling that VF2SS was talking about a "hate meme" (his words) and not anyone's particular hatred. And in this sense I have to agree, as I've started rewatching Macross 7 and hopefully this will come to be reflected in the "rewatching M7" thread.

The point is that a meme is like a social convention or opinion that makes the round and gets to be accepted truth without anybody really ever checking - and this goes for the "M7 love meme" just as much as the "hate meme."

I've said it before and will say it again: after years of debate on the subject, it seems that Macross fandom has settled on two versions: either you love and accept Bassara as the savior of the universe and his music as awesome - and therefore overlook any and all potential goofiness in M7 OR you exagerate that goofiness to make it sound like there's nothing else in the series except a red and yellow valk with some dude singing J-POP and making rainbow colored swirls shoot at Inhumanoids rejects.

Both of these memes are - as the majority of memes tend to be - not completely accurate.

Macross 7 is a far richer story, and Bassara is a far more complex and complete character than iether detractors or supporters give him credit for.

This is why I think it is good sometimes to re-watch a series and verify people's opinions - and also, maybe people will see something new they haven't seen before.

Pete

on a personal crusade to broaden the range of debate regarding Macrss 7 and escape the confines of what has effectively become Suxorz vs Rulez!

[Strumvogel]

I personally really need to watch beyond the 14th episode. I pretty much stopped there last time I tried, which is strange since from my memory that episode ended on a cliffhanger. If anything that'd make me keep watching beyond that would have been that episode.

However I think it was a combination of being worn out by all the previous episodes leading up to it, and being buried in more pressing issues that took all of my time at that particular moment contributed to me stopping dead with the series.

I suppose that cliffhanger was some 7 episodes too late to me by the time it came around.

[VF5SS]

There are a lot of people in this thread who have been, quite frankly, quite civil towards Mac 7, considering their distaste for it. Personally, I just don't sense the "hate" that people are being accused of here.

Except you couldn't talk about Macross 7 on this board without it breaking into a troll thread. There was some very strong group-think that was preventing people from discussing the longest running Macross series.

It's like a Gundam BBS keeping people from discussing Zeta Gundam.

[VFTF1]

In fairness - Macross 7 itself has alot of anti-M7 trolling - it goes with the territory.

Pete

[Dangard Ace]

Except you couldn't talk about Macross 7 on this board without it breaking into a troll thread. There was some very strong group-think that was preventing people from discussing the longest running Macross series.

It's like a Gundam BBS keeping people from discussing Zeta Gundam.

Hey that sounds almost exactly like a Macross II thread way back when except it was the M7 fans bashing MII preventing it from being discussed.