Theory: Fold Faults and SD space time dilation

[Master Dex]

I have been cooking this up for some time now so I've decided to post this theory.

In Macross Frontier we were introduced to the concept of Fold Faults (sometimes incorrectly translated as Fold Dislocations) in Super Dimension Space that hinder the use of Space Fold technology. This is a completely new concept that wasn't said to ever exist in any previous Macross series. However certain dialogue in some episodes lately have made me wonder maybe we have seen the effects of fold faults before but we didn't know they were the cause, even perhaps those in the show didn't know of them. I am proposing Fold Faults are a recent discovery in Macross history that wasn't known about in 2047 (where we last saw a Macross series take place) but was discovered before 2059 (the time of Frontier).

I have been a little vague up to now though. To start my theory I am going to go back all the way to the original Macross. Specifically episode 11, titled First Contact in which Misa, Hikaru, and Kakizaki are brought before Bodolza himself as the confused Zentradi try to learn about the miclone race aboard the SDF-1 Macross. Early on in this episode Misa comments that they have been in Fold space for almost an hour and guessed that nearly 10 days must have passed aboard the Macross. This set up since then a fact about space folding that there is a certain time dilation that goes on when one fold travels.

Science Lesson for those unaware

In reality time dilation is an actual effect during high speed movement and travel but only begins to be truly noticeable at speeds increase towards the speed of light (but not equaling as that is impossible without some type of theoretical FTL propulsion such as space folding) or the presence of heavy gravity. In specific to speeds near lightspeed velocity when something is moving that fast then time relative to the traveler moves slower than time relative to someone standing still. This is all part of Einstein's special theory of relativity and has for the most part been accepted as fact (time dilation has actually been proved at least).

Back to the subject of Macross. In episode 11 (ironically) of Frontier (note: I am basing this off of translation done by Shinsen Subs which I believe to be one of the most accurate) when Luca, Mikhail, and Nanase are talking about Gallia 4 Luca says something to the extent of "From the traveler's perspective it will take 1 day to get there, but because of fold faults in the region it will take 7 days on the outside."

This has led me to theorize that the time dilation seen all through Macross during folding may be a result of fold faults, however before the time of Frontier they didn't know this and just assumed it was normal for fold travel. To futher add fuel to this theory is that LAI developed a new fold booster that can travel through (or around, I forget) fold faults and negate their effect. As seen in episode 12 Michel and Ranka leave Frontier and arrive at Gallia 4 in what seems to be one day tops (based on the earlier statements I figure it could be no faster than one day of travel) but point is there was no dilation that I could tell or the revolt would have ended in nukes and ship fire by the time they arrived (which was the point of using that booster).

So it could be that this new booster is the first time they have found a way of fold traveling that negates the time dilation we have come to expect and allows one to travel without losing extra time outside of fold space.

Again of course this is only theory, please comment or tell me if you have anything that goes against this.

[Gubaba]

I have to say that I think time dilation is one of those things of which Macross stories have taken heed only when they need to. IIRC, episode 11 of SDFM was the only time they mentioned the time dilation effect...and it didn't seem to be a factor on the journey back to the Macross.

City 7 folds all over the place, and time dilation is never mentioned. Isamu and Guld's jaunt to earth is certainly presented as almost instantaneous.

I think that, when planning Frontier, they realized this and decided to set a few rules in stone.

Me, I'd like to know how it took the Megaroad-01 four years to travel to the Galactic Center, but seven years into its voyage, Macross 7 STILL hasn't reached it yet...

[Master Dex]

I have to say that I think time dilation is one of those things of which Macross stories have taken heed only when they need to. IIRC, episode 11 of SDFM was the only time they mentioned the time dilation effect...and it didn't seem to be a factor on the journey back to the Macross.

City 7 folds all over the place, and time dilation is never mentioned. Isamu and Guld's jaunt to earth is certainly presented as almost instantaneous.

I think that, when planning Frontier, they realized this and decided to set a few rules in stone.

Me, I'd like to know how it took the Megaroad-01 four years to travel to the Galactic Center, but seven years into its voyage, Macross 7 STILL hasn't reached it yet...

That just makes it seem like when making Frontier they decided to tackle that issue and explain it, which leads further credence to the theory.

Good question...

[RedWolf]

Macross 7 did not have these problem but Exsedol did say that the region of of space they are in was where the Protoculture had their civilization.

Probably the Protoculture lived in that region due to lack of Fold Faults.

But compared to M7, Macross Frontier and Galaxy is at much deeper core region of the galaxy.

[Master Dex]

Macross 7 did not have these problem but Exsedol did say that the region of of space they are in was where the Protoculture had their civilization.

Probably the Protoculture lived in that region due to lack of Fold Faults.

But compared to M7, Macross Frontier and Galaxy is at much deeper core region of the galaxy.

From that maybe one could surmise that fold faults are related to the heavy amount of gravity near the core because of all the stars.. and a giant black hole in the center.

[Gubaba]

Macross 7 did not have these problem but Exsedol did say that the region of of space they are in was where the Protoculture had their civilization.

Probably the Protoculture lived in that region due to lack of Fold Faults.

But compared to M7, Macross Frontier and Galaxy is at much deeper core region of the galaxy.

But are the Fold Faults in our reality, or are they in "Fold Space"...?

And would it be the same as, for example, Cowboy Bebop's gates...?

EDIT: Wait a second...What do you mean, "where the Protoculture had their civilization"? Where DIDN'T they have civilization?

Edited July 9, 2008 by Gubaba

[Morpheus]

The term 'Space Fold" itself is not quite relevant with MF show. Since now the incorporated fold gates, its more likes Babylon 5 hyperspace thingy. In the show we see that all the vessel traveling in the foldspace travels along a tube like path with a constant speed (probably) and Michael VF-25 with LAI booster is speeding down the same path. So for me the fold drive itself is like a device to jump and travel in fold space with advance LAI fold booster allows the vessel to travel the fold space much faster. A fold dislocation is kinda a fold space anomaly that slow the traveling speed of the vessel inside it and its not possible to fold/defold in the FD.

Well, there's always the super dimensional purple crystals.

oh well, I better get rid of the cat girl which I just slaughtered.....

Edited July 9, 2008 by Morpheus

[RedWolf]

But are the Fold Faults in our reality, or are they in "Fold Space"...?

And would it be the same as, for example, Cowboy Bebop's gates...?

EDIT: Wait a second...What do you mean, "where the Protoculture had their civilization"? Where DIDN'T they have civilization?

Well in when Exsedol left the bridge and went out the first time in 7 years for a peek at the Protoculture ruins at Lux.

Exsedol answered Max that due to previous and current evidences the Protoculture lived in that region of space.

When you think about backwater planets like Earth and Zola at the rim regions of the galaxy you the get the feeling that the Protoculture intentionally seeded these worlds away from the war zone.

[Master Dex]

The term 'Space Fold" itself is not quite relevant with MF show. Since now the incorporated fold gates, its more likes Babylon 5 hyperspace thingy. In the show we see that all the vessel traveling in the foldspace travels along a tube like path with a constant speed (probably) and Michael VF-25 with LAI booster is speeding down the same path. So for me the fold drive itself is like a device to jump and travel in fold space with advance LAI fold booster allows the vessel to travel the fold space much faster. A fold dislocation is kinda a fold space anomaly that slow the traveling speed of the vessel inside it and its not possible to fold/defold in the FD.

Well, there's always the super dimensional purple crystals.

oh well, I better get rid of the cat girl which I just slaughtered.....

In my opinion it is still folding. The way I see it, and the way the graphic shows in the beginning of ep.6, space is folded over many times to make it shorter (Luca makes a comment about the new fold booster working by reducing the galaxy to a tenth it's size when folding in ep.12) and then punches a hole (the tunnel we see) through the folded space, allowing for quicker travel than just flying though that long expanse of space.

[Morpheus]

So Protoculture Homeworld is inside Fold-Space? I kinda get a Tarn Vedra vibe from it

On another note: plz save the catgirls.

[dreamweaver13]

Great thread!

Time dilation and fold faults would seem to be related topics, at the very least. At best, one is the proximate cause of the other. Adding on to your theory, I would surmise that it's not as simple as equating the fold fault to time dilation.

I am going back to Mac F episode 7. from the diagrams and readings on luca's console, fold faults seem to take up actual space. i had the impression that it is a sort of "null space/dimension" in space that cannot be crossed through fold technology ("don't cross the streams!!" said Spengler to Venkman). likewise, fold communications would suffer from delay since it would actually have to go around these fold faults. This would explain why luca was so surprised that the vajra mothership was able to go through the fold fault, instead of around it. He was not expecting any enemy to appear from that specific area, because as far as he knew, it was physically impossible to fold in from that particular area in space.

I know it might sound too simplistic (my science background is iffy, at best), but the fold faults seem to be dimensional anomalies that actually occupy space in space. While unseen to the naked eye, and while they may be crossed through traditional space travel in real-time, it would seem that they cannot be crossed through fold travel.

Assuming that a fold fault takes up actual space, then let us assume further that such a fold fault or faults exist between point A (origin) and point B (destination). My theory is that this fold fault could have two possible effects on fold travel, depending on the position or nature of the fold fault. One, the fold fault causes significant time dilation during fold travel. Hence, traveling from point A (Frontier) to point B (Galia 4) would take some time. (A week from perspective of real time, a day from the perspective of fold-time). Second, the fold fault, if it completely blocks the path, would cause the fold to cease at one point (let’s call it the Midpoint), and the vessel would have to re-enter fold from that midpoint. This is similar to the limitation of FTL in battlestar galactica. It can only jump a certain distance, and then re-jump to get further.

I got the impression of this second effect during episode 7. Instead of jumping directly to where Galaxy was, the macros quarter rescue group could only travel to a rendezvous point and wait for galaxy there. Or maybe the quarter was preparing to make the second fold when the galaxy ships arrived at the rendezvous point (midpoint).

Ok, now to answer the question: are these fold faults new phenomenon, or old ones that are just being explained recently? I would have to agree with Dex… there are indications that these fold faults have been affecting the macross universe since SDFM. Dex already mentioned episode 11 of SDFM (first contact) where misa observes the time dilation. As far as speculation goes, I would go as far back as episode 2. Maybe, the first encounter of humanity with a fold fault was when the SDF-1 tried to jump from the earth’s surface to the moon. I think it was the earth’s gravity that caused the fold to haywire and end up near Pluto instead, but the interesting part is the disappearance of the fold drives. Maybe the SDF-1 grazed a portion of space with a fold fault, and the adverse effect was the disappearance of the fold drives themselves.

Ok, admittedly that’s a stretch. But here’s a more solid example of a space fault. It took britai and his fleet ten years to trace the fold signature of the ASS-1 to earth. The long amount of time could reflect the effect of a fold fault on fold communications and travel from point A (point of encounter between britai fleet and the SA gunboat) to point B (earth).

As for the second effect of the fold fault, I could point to ep 30 of SDFM (viva maria) where britai’s UNG fleet had to make a stop over before continuing to point B (the factory satellite). And the satellite also had to fold twice before returning to earthspace.

This would also explain why some folds in the macros universe would seem to be instantaneous (i.e. macross 7, macross plus). Maybe it’s simply because there was no fold fault between points A and B. or if there is any, the effects could be very minimal.

Then in comes LAI to finally find a way to go through the fold fault instead of around it. Hence, significantly eliminating the time dilation, and (theoretically) allowing single fold jump to any point in the chartered universe. I would equate the LAI’s new technology to the discovery of instantaneous philotic travel in the later Enderverse novels (i.e. children of the mind).

Whew. Ok that will do for now. it's a mouthful already as it is.

[Master Dex]

For ep.7, I got the impression they were just dropping communication buoys in that area before going on to recon where Galaxy was, but then the Kaitos and Dulfim folded out while still under attack and that is why Quarter stopped there to help them. It is later said that Dulfim and Kaitos were sent ahead to get help or something and it was mentioned later that Galaxy had disappeared (destroyed or folded elsewhere to save itself maybe) so there was nothing else to go to.

As for the rest of what you said dreamweaver13, all sounds good, I agree. Good additions.

[JB0]

I have been a little vague up to now though. To start my theory I am going to go back all the way to the original Macross. Specifically episode 11, titled First Contact in which Misa, Hikaru, and Kakizaki are brought before Bodolza himself as the confused Zentradi try to learn about the miclone race aboard the SDF-1 Macross. Early on in this episode Misa comments that they have been in Fold space for almost an hour and guessed that nearly 10 days must have passed aboard the Macross. This set up since then a fact about space folding that there is a certain time dilation that goes on when one fold travels.

Science Lesson for those unaware

In reality time dilation is an actual effect during high speed movement and travel but only begins to be truly noticeable at speeds increase towards the speed of light (but not equaling as that is impossible without some type of theoretical FTL propulsion such as space folding) or the presence of heavy gravity. In specific to speeds near lightspeed velocity when something is moving that fast then time relative to the traveler moves slower than time relative to someone standing still. This is all part of Einstein's special theory of relativity and has for the most part been accepted as fact (time dilation has actually been proved at least).

But time dilation for FTL travel isn't the same as the relativistic effect. Notably, it takes infinite time to do anything at lightspeed, and infinite energy to attain lightspeed. Hence why there's a universal speed limit of 1c.

And that brings us to subspace, hyperspace, fold space, etc. Drop yourself into a parallel universe with a different set of rules, one where lightspeed is higher, or the laws don't prohibit passing photons.

Of course, universes with different rules can ALSO run at a different speed.

Historically, that's been the most plausable explanation for the fold space/real space time discrepancy, fold space just has a slower time. Not relativistic time dilation.

Back to the subject of Macross. In episode 11 (ironically) of Frontier (note: I am basing this off of translation done by Shinsen Subs which I believe to be one of the most accurate) when Luca, Mikhail, and Nanase are talking about Gallia 4 Luca says something to the extent of "From the traveler's perspective it will take 1 day to get there, but because of fold faults in the region it will take 7 days on the outside."

This has led me to theorize that the time dilation seen all through Macross during folding may be a result of fold faults, however before the time of Frontier they didn't know this and just assumed it was normal for fold travel. To futher add fuel to this theory is that LAI developed a new fold booster that can travel through (or around, I forget) fold faults and negate their effect. As seen in episode 12 Michel and Ranka leave Frontier and arrive at Gallia 4 in what seems to be one day tops (based on the earlier statements I figure it could be no faster than one day of travel) but point is there was no dilation that I could tell or the revolt would have ended in nukes and ship fire by the time they arrived (which was the point of using that booster).

So it could be that this new booster is the first time they have found a way of fold traveling that negates the time dilation we have come to expect and allows one to travel without losing extra time outside of fold space.

And now we get to the modern era of Macross, and the newest wrinkle.

I wonder if it's truly 1:1 time correlation with the new prototype, or if it minimizes the effects of faults, but there's still an inherent time flow variance on top of that that was just irrelevant for the fold in question.

Misa's statements in the original series implied a direct ratio, which doesn't line up with the fault explanation(remember, she's not OBSERVING the time discrepancy. She has no way of seeing time outside of the fold. She has to have prior knowledge that time isn't 1:1).

Of course, fold time could also be continuously variable, and faults are just areas of particularly "slow" time. Frontier's graphic illustrated the ship flying around some faults and straight through others, so it's apparently not a case of COMPLETE impassability, leaving you to wonder what exactly a fault IS.

It could just be a question of whether it's "faster" to go around a fault or to plow through it.

Of course,(at least according to the subs I watched) the planet-buster bomb generated a fold fault. They don't seem very passable.

Maybe they're different if they're actually IN fold space.

In conclusion: ???

Edited July 9, 2008 by JB0

[dreamweaver13]

For ep.7, I got the impression they were just dropping communication buoys in that area before going on to recon where Galaxy was, but then the Kaitos and Dulfim folded out while still under attack and that is why Quarter stopped there to help them. It is later said that Dulfim and Kaitos were sent ahead to get help or something and it was mentioned later that Galaxy had disappeared (destroyed or folded elsewhere to save itself maybe) so there was nothing else to go to.

As for the rest of what you said dreamweaver13, all sounds good, I agree. Good additions.

hmmm... good point. how about this. if point A is the Frontier, and point B is the last known coordinates of the Galaxy, the best way to save the Galaxy fleet would be to jump directly to Point B. at the same time, the best way for the dulfim/kaitos to get help is to jump directly to point A.

i'm assuming that the human fleets have mapped out fold faults in its immediate vicinity to a certain degree. thus, the Quarter rescue fleet knew that it would be encountering a fold fault. therefore it knew that in order to communicate effectively with Point A from point B, it would have to drop communication buoys in a pre-mapped Midpoint. the communication buoys were necessary to communicate around the fold fault/s.

We can assume that the Galaxy (and the Kaitos/Dulfim) had the same galactic maps, with the same coordinates of known fold faults. Thus, from the same consistent map, the Kaitos and Dulfim would know that the best path to Point A would be the very same Midpoint that the Quarter used.

This would explain why, in the vast expanse of space, the Kaitos/Dulfim managed to rendezvous with the Quarter at a specific point in space. and judging by Luca's surprised reaction of the Vajra mothership from one side, i would surmise that the Midpoint was covered by fold faults in several directions, thus making the entrypoint of new ships into the foray supposedly predictable.

[Kronnang Dunn]

I just had this idea. What if the Fold faults are the results of the use of several Dimension eaters during the last 400,000 years? Maybe the Dimension Eater technology is also based on ancient Protoculture Technology...

Perhaps the Fold faults are remants of battles where the Protoculture were forced to use such devices to defend itself from the Supervision Army... or maybe the SA used that technology...

[wolfx]

Back to the subject of Macross. In episode 11 (ironically) of Frontier (note: I am basing this off of translation done by Shinsen Subs which I believe to be one of the most accurate) when Luca, Mikhail, and Nanase are talking about Gallia 4 Luca says something to the extent of "From the traveler's perspective it will take 1 day to get there, but because of fold faults in the region it will take 7 days on the outside."

Nothing much to add to what has already been said.....but about this translation, i got the impression that Luca said it would normally take 1 day to arrive at Gallia 4 (through fold travel) from where they are but due to fold faults, its gonna take 10 days instead...so its not a matter of time dilation but more of a matter of longer travel times. Right now i'm imagining fold faults to be rough areas of sea where though not impossible to pass, may take longer to sail through the storm....or perhaps shorter time to go around it/through it in normal space.

That said...i think Alto and Sheryl took 10 days to travel from Frontier to Galia 4 and were probably in stasis sleep (as shown in ep 00 deculture edition) during travel and no time dilation took place. Also consider that there seems to be fold communications available via the galaxy network allowing for near instantaneous communication between long distance space which would be impossible if there was time dilation to be taken into account. In Macross 7 Encore : Fleet of the Strongest Women and even in Macross Plus, communications with UN HQ on earth seem to be instantaneous and real time rather than taking a month or so for the message to get to their destinations.

[Shun]

I have to say that I think time dilation is one of those things of which Macross stories have taken heed only when they need to. IIRC, episode 11 of SDFM was the only time they mentioned the time dilation effect...and it didn't seem to be a factor on the journey back to the Macross.

City 7 folds all over the place, and time dilation is never mentioned. Isamu and Guld's jaunt to earth is certainly presented as almost instantaneous.

I think that, when planning Frontier, they realized this and decided to set a few rules in stone.

Me, I'd like to know how it took the Megaroad-01 four years to travel to the Galactic Center, but seven years into its voyage, Macross 7 STILL hasn't reached it yet...

Did they actually say that the M7 was taking the exact same path of the Megaroad? I don't think their objective was to get to the Galactic center but just nearer to the center.

Also, didnt they experience time lag when using the Galaxy Network in M7? Is the Galaxy Network always "online"? I always had the impression that it was not "simultenous broadcast" and there was always some lag in communications given the huge distances.

Even with the new LAI fold booster in Frontier, there is still gonna be some lag although much shorter compared with the old tech.

[RedWolf]

Did they actually say that the M7 was taking the exact same path of the Megaroad? I don't think their objective was to get to the Galactic center but just nearer to the center.

Also, didnt they experience time lag when using the Galaxy Network in M7? Is the Galaxy Network always "online"? I always had the impression that it was not "simultenous broadcast" and there was always some lag in communications given the huge distances.

Even with the new LAI fold booster in Frontier, there is still gonna be some lag although much shorter compared with the old tech.

Well it isn't a strech that Macross 7 established a fold comm relay along their 7 year journey.

Not to mention the fact that the amusement ship Hollywood is actually one big fold comm antenna.

[NoNameSt11]

Just to add a little bit of info, when they had the diagram up of the fold travel to Gallia 4 each fault had would show a different day. As they continued on, one fault would add +1 another added +2 etc. So I guess you can say that it's just a space that's difficult to travel through like rough seas. Either that or it could be sections of 'denser' space that slows fold travel and prohibits the formation of new fold tunnels, which would explain why the Kaitos wasn't able to make a fold jump until it cleared the faults in the region.

[Master Dex]

I like how this discussion is going, I have nothing to debate anyone on based on whats been said now since it is all a different view on a theory.

To Wolfx:

I said in that post I was basing off of the translation done by Shinsen Subs which I believe to be the most accuracte and their line said it like that. I too heard it differently in other subs that made me think it was only a longer trip sometimes, but once I heard this version I thought differently.

[creamyhorror]

"From the traveler's perspective it will take 1 day to get there, but because of fold faults in the region it will take 7 days on the outside."

I said in that post I was basing off of the translation done by Shinsen Subs which I believe to be the most accuracte and their line said it like that. I too heard it differently in other subs that made me think it was only a longer trip sometimes, but once I heard this version I thought differently.

I agree with Shinsen's translation. Ours is "From a traveler's viewpoint, the travel time from here should be about one day, but from our viewpoint, it would take nearly a week." IIRC, the Japanese terms are "subjective view" and "objective view" (of the travel time).

[Mr March]

Made a new entry for the Macropedia that applies to this discussion.

Galaxy Standard Value adjustment

An adjustment for time displacement that occurs when a vessel travels within, and then exits, fold space. While fold travel is nearly instantaneous for the crew of a folding space craft, time passes much slower in real space and long distance fold travel requires that space craft re-synchronize their onboard chronometers to adjust for this difference. Typically the adjustment is measured in hours. When Alto Saotome in his VF-25F Messiah escorted pop idol Sheryl Nome travelling aboard a space transport to Gallia 4 in 2059, both craft adjusted their onboard chronometers upon defold by +172.25 hours (Macross Frontier, Episode 12).

Any comments/concerns/corrections?

[Master Dex]

Made a new entry for the Macropedia that applies to this discussion.

Any comments/concerns/corrections?

Very nice, I think it works quite well. Nothing seems out of place to me.

I'm guessing when making Mac7 they didn't want to do all that work in thinking about the fold time displacement since they were folding so much in the show, but I'm glad they remembered they had that happen in Macross so they brought it back and by my theory and belief at least attributed it at least partially to the Fold Faults which are something new to the franchise.

[wolfx]

Made a new entry for the Macropedia that applies to this discussion.

Any comments/concerns/corrections?

Is the entry confirmed or just conjecture?

I wouldn't say its near instantaneous travel though since Sheryl and the other passengers had to undergo some kind of stasis sleep when travelling from the Galaxy to the Frontier in the Deculture Edition.

[Mr March]

It's basically a repeat of what was told to us in the anime. And yes, fold travel is supposed to be nearly instantaneous based on the Macross Compendium entry:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Fold

[JB0]

Is the entry confirmed or just conjecture?

I wouldn't say its near instantaneous travel though since Sheryl and the other passengers had to undergo some kind of stasis sleep when travelling from the Galaxy to the Frontier in the Deculture Edition.

That could just be for comfort. People can tell when they're in a fold because of the color-shifting effect somehow. Otherwise Misa and company wouldn't have known they were folding, or how long they'd been folding. I imagine the different physics standards make for a disorienting ride.

Didn't Deculture also make reference to "fold sickness"?

[RedWolf]

Fold sickness is akin to sea sickness or any traveling by vehicle.

[Mr March]

Yep. I got an entry for that too

Fold Sickness

Adverse effects on the human body due to the space-time folding effect, the common method of interstellar travel. Symptoms of fold sickness are described as similar to that of motion sickness.

Can't wait for my next update. Almost there

[wolfx]

That could just be for comfort. People can tell when they're in a fold because of the color-shifting effect somehow. Otherwise Misa and company wouldn't have known they were folding, or how long they'd been folding. I imagine the different physics standards make for a disorienting ride.

Didn't Deculture also make reference to "fold sickness"?

I highly doubt it though. It looked like it was stasis sleep for long travel periods.

And about compendium...shrug. I'll live with it for now but I'll say i'm expecting a retcon. After all the space fold's special effects have also been retconned dramatically from SDF/Macross 7 to Frontier and now with the introduction of Fold Faults, God knows how it works now. Also Guld and Isamu's fold to earth from Eden with no time dilation effect (to arrive to stop Sharon Apple in time) is another indication of time dilation not happening and we do know that Eden is at least few light years away from Earth's solar system. *shrug*

[Master Dex]

I highly doubt it though. It looked like it was stasis sleep for long travel periods.

And about compendium...shrug. I'll live with it for now but I'll say i'm expecting a retcon. After all the space fold's special effects have also been retconned dramatically from SDF/Macross 7 to Frontier and now with the introduction of Fold Faults, God knows how it works now. Also Guld and Isamu's fold to earth from Eden with no time dilation effect (to arrive to stop Sharon Apple in time) is another indication of time dilation not happening and we do know that Eden is at least few light years away from Earth's solar system. *shrug*

It would have to be at least a few light years away, the closest star to our own is a little under 4 light years away (the measurement of a parsec). I think Eden is supposed to be between 10 and 15 light years away from Earth, I read that somewhere.

Also with my theory on Fold Faults, the reason there was no time dilation in the Eden to Earth trip is there was no fold faults. It makes sense to me. It's just a theory anyway...

[Mr March]

It's 11.7 light years away, according to the compendium.

I made an entry in my Macropedia as well

Eden

A planet in the Groombridge 1816 (Helios) solar system that was colonized in November 2013. The planet grew into a substantial colony world and became home to the New Edwards Test Flight Center in 2020. Eden is 11.7 light years away from Earth in the Sol System.

There might be changes to fold travel in the upcoming Macross Chronicle. But I suspect fold travel has been left ambiguous to avoid the trap that some sci-fi shows fall into; the need to violate the limitations of their own fictional FTL travel in order to serve the plot. No secret which series I'm slingin' mudd at now

[wolfx]

It would have to be at least a few light years away, the closest star to our own is a little under 4 light years away (the measurement of a parsec). I think Eden is supposed to be between 10 and 15 light years away from Earth, I read that somewhere.

Also with my theory on Fold Faults, the reason there was no time dilation in the Eden to Earth trip is there was no fold faults. It makes sense to me. It's just a theory anyway...

Good theory perhaps.....except that strangely there was fold faults within earth's solar system itself that prompted misa to say 10 days have passed?

[Master Dex]

It's 11.7 light years away, according to the compendium.

I made an entry in my Macropedia as well

There might be changes to fold travel in the upcoming Macross Chronicle. But I suspect fold travel has been left ambiguous to avoid the trap that some sci-fi shows fall into; the need to violate the limitations of their own fictional FTL travel in order to serve the plot. No secret which series I'm slingin' mudd at now

Hey, we quibbled over this once, I'll respect your reasons for disdain but lets not have any animosity over a good thing.

Some like having details and understanding the idea behind the fictional theory of FTL travel. Gives people ideas on how it could be done, and when it is obvious that it can't, we know we either need to think differently (new science we don't understand yet, hint hint, it may be a cheap excuse but it works) or we then can find someway else to do it. I am just one of those people that enjoys all that science and understands the technobabble (when it actually is saying stuff) when I like what I hear.

[Master Dex]

Good theory perhaps.....except that strangely there was fold faults within earth's solar system itself that prompted misa to say 10 days have passed?

Well it was actually a fold from outer Sol to wherever the Bodolza fleet was, also Misa wasn't exactly the world's top Space Fold theorist. Part of my theory is they didn't even know about fold faults then and she was just guessing based on simulations. It is also possible she assumed regular time dilation as a result of travel near speed of light was still in affect but in that case I think her numbers wouldn't make much sense. Truthfully I don't see how she could have even known about any time dilation effects at that point because I am assuming the SDF-1's botched fold jump was the first time humanity ever made a space fold.

[Mr March]

LOL Oh, I always have fun at that shows expense. But it's all in good jest

I'm happy with what Macross has done with it's FTL method. It may not be entirely original, but its creative and innovative. I love tech talk as much as the next tech geek, but I prefer the use of units and the end result. I don't have to know how fold travel works or why, but it would be great if I knew how much power it takes, how fast it can go and I'd like it all in real SI units. That's part of the fun of the real robot genre, using real measurements and units to show the degree of technological advancement. Meters, mach speeds, thruster output, weight and all that makes them more real to me. It helps create a more immersive, fictional world to which we can relate and I love that kind of fiction in Macross.

And you all will too, in the next update