why must we doom ourselves???

[do not disturb]

okay heres the deal....

WHY must people here discuss prices of upcoming product and cost of future products?

when someone posts here on MW that they are willing to pay $150- for something and other members agree, yamato will read it here and surely sell it for $150 even though they were going to sell it for $100-.

do you people understand what i'm saying?

i'm not saying this is a fact but it doesn't help us in any way at all. it lets yamato KNOW what fans are willing to spend and they'll charge as much as they can for it. so why set the price point for yamato?

in doing so, you and you alone are setting the "price point" for yamato. if we were all to say, "hey, i'd only pay $100 for a 1/48" from the very beginning, perhaps yamato wouldn't be selling them for $150 now. do you catch my drift?

i just find it totally idiotic that people state what they are willing to pay....if anything low ball the cost, not post the maximum amount you're willing to spend...this is NOT an auction. you're not helping yourself, you're not helping members, you're ONLY helping yamato make more money off us. do you feel me?

once again, its a case of self-fulfilling prophecy, so i say again...

WHY MUST WE DOOM OURSELVES INTO PAYING MORE BY STATING WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO PAY?

Edited October 14, 2003 by haterist

[Draykov]

I'll buy that for a $1!

In truth, I don't think Yamato's MSRP has a whole lot to do with MW posters. But if they make a 1/48 VE-1 I'd pay $225 for it!

Edited October 14, 2003 by Draykov

[Uxi]

Heh. Supply and demand is all it is. They'd get much more reliable figures on what they could charge in better ways than eavesdropping on an internet forum that is hardly representative of their main market (Japan). Now if you're talking HLJ or the Valkyrie Exchange... there would still be better ways. B)

[rocco_77]

I'll buy that for a $1!

In truth, I don't think Yamato's MSRP has a whole lot to do with MW posters. But if they make a 1/48 VE-1 I'd pay $225 for it!

LOL!

I can kind of understand what you are saying, but I think that there are other factors that determine what Yamato charges then our humble board of fans....

As I'm sure they are here from time to time to read our feedback, I'm not so sure that they set prices based on our opinions or statements about price...

Plus, I think there are just as many people here that say they can't afford a 1/48 at current prices then there are people who say they are willing to spend $150 or so on one. Does that make sense?

[tom64ss]

Considering none of the toys they manufacture are meant for US sale, I don't think their MSRP had anything to do with what we say we're willing to pay. If anything, MSRPs have always been significantly less than what US collectors are willing to pay because our prices have to factor in shipping costs too. Working out those figures would be a complete waste of time for marketing department since it's a toy that not meant to be sold anywhere outside of Japan.

[do not disturb]

perhaps MSRP was the wrong term, i should've just say price point.

the fact is, discussing how much we're willing to pay for something, even though it might not make a difference, it DEFINITELY DOES NOT HELP US IN ANY WAY. thats my point.

and for those of you that wanna use the supply and demand arguement....i'll use the "its all relative" arguement cause thats how ridiculous it is. that could be said for everything, just like the "its all relative" arguement.

supply and demand will be one of the reason for the downfall of the US. as well as other factors that i won't go into. we practically started that policy, or atleast took it to another level. many countries of tired of hearing it and will eventually come and take it from us...you'll see.

Edited October 14, 2003 by haterist

[Draykov]

and for those of you that wanna use the supply and demand arguement....i'll use the "its all relative" arguement cause thats how ridiculous it is. that could be said for everything, just like the "its all relative" arguement.

Ah, but you're forgetting the "America is not a factor in Yamato's marketing strategy" argument.

[tom64ss]

I think even distributors look at what people say "they'd be willing to pay" with a grain of salt, 'cause when it come time to lay down our money, most buyers want to try and get an even better deal. Most distributors realize the "gotta have it right away" crowd is a limited group. The most profitable, but limited.

Products, like Yamatos, that're sold pretty much to a limited "collector" market are almost always price guaged on online auction sales.

[EXO]

You know, I'd pay $700 for that monster.

$500 for the 1/48 M&Ms.

$300 for the Elint and Ostich if they ever made it in 1/48. EACH!

$150 for each Destroid. (minus the virgins)

$450 for a 1/48 GBP.

hehe. Now we're all up the DOOMED creek!

[pfunk]

You know, I'd pay $700 for that monster.

$500 for the 1/48 M&Ms.

$300 for the Elint and Ostich if they ever made it in 1/48. EACH!

$150 for each Destroid. (minus the virgins)

$450 for a 1/48 GBP.

hehe. Now we're all up the DOOMED creek!

OH YEAH,

I'd pay $1000 if they made a joke machine with armor

[do not disturb]

Products, like Yamatos, that're sold pretty much to a limited "collector" market are almost always price guaged on online auction sales.

i can see your point there...thats what most of us do when we're trying to get rid of something but don't know what its worth. i know the first place to check is ebay....unfortunately. <_<

[tom64ss]

Products, like Yamatos, that're sold pretty much to a limited "collector" market are almost always price guaged on online auction sales.

i can see your point there...thats what most of us do when we're trying to get rid of something but don't know what its worth. i know the first place to check is ebay....unfortunately.

Yeah, eBay's an abomination, but a useful tool at the same time. It's supply and demand at it's purist and on a global level.

Look at the EXTREME price fluctuation in VF toys in that last few years. As soon as the reissues came out, collector prices for Takas and DYRL Bandais dropped, significantly. Prices on non FP 1/60s were fairly high until the 1/48 came out. If someone came out with an even better VF-1 toys than the 1/48 right now, I bet the prices on those would bottom out too.

[McKlown]

You don't seem to realise that Yamato DOES sell the stuff at the price they originally set(like the $100-110 1/48ths)

The reason it turns out to be so much more in the end for us is because of the huge cost of International shipping and handling and going through distributors. Thanks to Harmony Gold, Yamato can't currently sell the toys on their own here in the States. If they were able to, then you'd be able to grab one at the lower price.

Edited October 14, 2003 by McKlown

[tom64ss]

You don't seem to realise that Yamato DOES sell the stuff at the price they originally set.

The reason it turns out to be so much more in the end for us is because of the huge cost of Internation shipping and handling.

Yamato sells their toys for the same price regardless of what we pay for it. Whether I buy a 1/48 for $80 or $160, Yamato makes the same amount of money from the wholesaler, who sold it to the retail store or online seller, who sold it to us. But if the cost to the retailer is, $77, the guy that sold it for $80 won't exactly be dying to restock, where as the guy who doubled his money will probably do it right away.

That's how Yamato judges the success of a particular toy. It's by how quickly they sell out, not by whether or not it sells at the MSRP.

edit: I always hit submit by accident

Edited October 14, 2003 by tom64ss

[Batou]

$150 for each Destroid. (minus the virgins)

Let's not be too hasty about the virgins.

[CF18]

The price talk here may have no effect on Yamato, but it may have some effect on the stupid high price HG put on their MPC.

And Bandai probably learned that the high price you see on eBay is no indication of how successful a re-issue can be.

[estacado06479]

ok, lets all take a step back and go to toysrus japan and see what they actually cahrge, not what we get charged, because it is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY less over there.

so what we do doesnt affect how much yamato charges, it DOES affect how much we get gouged stateside.

YAMATO LOW VIS, toysrus japan

91.8670 USD

HLJ 135.984 USD (this is for 1/48 max)

BLASTO TOYS 135.95

VALKYRIE - EXCHANGE $134.99

TMPANIME 127.99 (might be sale price)

EBAY 150.00 (low viz)

IMAGE ANIME 159.99 (chortle)

these prices are before shipping

Edited October 14, 2003 by estacado06479

[VF-1Guy]

There are a couple of things to remember about price setting.

1. Retailers will set the highest price that the market will bear. We here at MW are not the entire market. We probably don't even make up a sizable chunk of the US market. I'd expect prices to be higher if we were the entire market.

2. A bunch of people sitting around talking about what they are willing to pay could possibly affect an initial price, but it won't affect the long term price (if Yamato even pays attention to such things). Opening your wallet is what determines the long term price. The suggested retail for a 1/48 Max is 13980 yen, but it can be had for about $89 now since a lot of people kept their wallet closed. I see the same thing with the VE-1 and VT-1.

3. It looks like from the prices that estacado06479 quoted that most the retailers are sticking close to the dollar equivilent of the MSRP. The lower price for TRU Japan is probably due to their size. They are purchasing these things in a much higher volume than the other retailers and they may be buying directly from Yamato (no wholeseller involved).

What haterist is saying does have merit though. We have a micro-market here at MW in that we have both buyers and sellers. What we say we are willing to pay could be a factor in the price that a local seller sets.

[Wabbit]

ok, lets all take a step back and go to toysrus japan and see what they actually cahrge, not what we get charged,  because it is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY less over there.

so what we do doesnt affect how much yamato charges,  it DOES affect how much we get gouged stateside.

YAMATO LOW VIS, toysrus japan

91.8670 USD

HLJ  135.984 USD (this is for 1/48 max)

BLASTO TOYS  135.95

VALKYRIE - EXCHANGE $134.99

TMPANIME  127.99 (might be sale price)

EBAY  150.00 (low viz)

IMAGE ANIME  159.99 (chortle)

these prices are before shipping

Don't forget that most "expensive" sellers/stores are based in the US and have to import these toys and that they speak your native English. That's what you are paying for.

That HLJ sells them as high as their U.S. colleages/competition is another story, but also: They speak your language.

Hey, if you do speak and read Japanese, then you are a lucky bastard and can buy stuff from cheaper Japanese stores.

[robokochan]

All of this may be true. Shipping is expensive and it does affect the price of items. However I just recently learned that Yamato is releasing teh Escaflowne Toy in the U.S. The price: around $48.00. Now the same toy here in Japan will cost 7800 yen. So I would imagine that if Yamato could release Macross toys in the U.S. it would be far less than what I would have to pay here.

Yes TRU does sell 1/48's cheaper than say my shop. And that is because they order a large volume and can offer it cheaper.

But do I think Yamato is influenced about the price they set by reading MW. Absolutley Yes. they know that they will sell it to you guys. That is also why they over-produce them. Japan is small, and while there is a large fan base here for Macross, the amount of toys that Yamato produces for Macross is very extreme. They know what they are doing and everyone here, including myself helps them out.

As some of you may know, I tried offering a yamato parts service here. Ordering parts was easy until I posted it here. Then all of the sudden I can't order parts anymore. I don't think that it is a coencidence (spelling). They killed me faster than I could start. Why? Because if people who buy thier Valks (1/48 - 1/60) can get them fixed then you will be less likely to buy the "improved" version. So what does the parts thing have to do with prices...well it just proves that Yamato does read these forums on a daily basis and there is probably some young guy that gives a weekly report to the boss. "Here's what they want, here's what most people will pay."

Yamato is a very Japanese company. The kind that in 10 years will go out of business for thier practices. The economy is very bad here and they are making bold moves that are unrealistic for such a small distributing area. Japanese people are just as tired of the crap that Yamato is putting out. Like I said before I haven't sold one Macross related item in the Shop I work at in 3 years. Yamato Products sit on the shelves at TRU until the prices drop so low that they finally sell. That doesn't look promising for the future.

MW is a large part of what keeps Yamato's Macross line alive. And it is what keeps them producing Macross related items. As long as everyone here stands for these prices, they will only increase. Look at the 1/60 Destroid Monster. I don't know one person here in Japan that has the space for something like that. Who are they making it for....MW.

Anyway that is just my 2 cents

[estacado06479]

yes, but the thread is about whether our yammering is driving prices up, my point is, they have never been high to begin with.

[Eternal_D]

yah, I hate it when ppl discuss prices too. and when they give a msrp of soemthing...dont' say "oh, that's not bad." always say "damn, that's a bit steep for me!" and make the manufacturers lower it!! gawd ppl, with so many toys out there...we need prices as low as we can get them! lol.

[do not disturb]

well i'm glad to see some people understand what i'm saying.

heres an example,

say you were "XYZ" company that makes macross toys. a 1/48 only cost you about $15- $20 to produce, not including R&D but just the total cost of the actual product and the box for arguements sake. and remember these are made in CHINA and not the US.

you had plans of selling it for $50 or so wholesale but then you find your way to macrossworld and everybody and their mother says they'd be willing to pay $200- for it.

what would you charge a wholesaler then? i doubt $50 right? more like $100 now, right? you'd be stupid not to wouldn't you? what would you do as a manufacturer? make less money than the retailers, or sell them for what people are willing to pay and rake in the lootcakes?

come on people, its really simple and it has nothing to do with supply and demand(retailers excuse for ripping you off), more to do with $$$ and cents.

you can sit there and say, "well its really for the japanese market and not for US sales....lets be realistic. while there might be SOME people in japan down for macross, i KNOW there are people here that are down with robotech. you can say they aren't the same thing, but in essence they really are.

when i first started searching for robotech/macross toys, i had no idea what macross was at all. i went on ebay and typed in robotech and found what i found (MPC ). it was only after some time i noticed the word macross in some of the ebay listings and only then, i found the honey pot.

i'm sure i'm not the only one here that had this experience. and to tell you the truth, i still didn't know what macross was until i found my way here.....long after buying crap on ebay.

anyway, i feel discussing prices, especially here hurts us more than helps us. if you can't understand that, then you must be really wealthy, or your parents got the ill bank roll.

estacado06479,

ooooo, i wanna flame you so bad but i will chill and be an adult. B)

realize, that comments like yours is EXACTLY why macross toys stay expensive. you might live at home, don't pay no rent and your folks are really rich, OR you got your own place and you're the doctor who discover viagra and making crazy money..... i really don't know. but i believe you're the first person to say macross toys aren't that expensive to begin with.

[estacado06479]

no...i said in JAPAN, they arent that expensive, if you're in Japan, you can go down to toysrus and get a 1/48 under 100 bucks, which is a good price, relatively.

when you consider what macrossworlders are paying for a low viz, about 135, the japan price is great.

if you are talking about charging cost of materials for something, then obviously, you need a swift dose of reality, no'gawn'happen.

[do not disturb]

no...i said in JAPAN, they arent that expensive, if you're in Japan, you can go down to toysrus and get a 1/48 under 100 bucks, which is a good price, relatively.

actually you said

my point is, they have never been high to begin with.

so, i don't see "japan" in your post at all. i know it doesn't cost as much in japan but most of us here are from the US....i think?

oh, no one said anything about charging COST, i just said it, if it costs $15- $20 to make and what you would charge if you were the manufacturer.

BTW, "you want reality.........i am reality"

[nemesis120]

Hmm, I actually can believe that they look at MW and all sorts of forums. One of the reasons why Yamato has to charge so much is that, quite frankly, their Valkyries are horrible toys. Nice collectibles, horrible toys. Give a 6 or 7 year old a Yamato and a Bandai. Watch and see what happens. They won't really like the Yamato but they will love the 1/55. Yamato seems to have looked at what not to do when designing toys and then decided to do exactly that. To begin with, the market for these Valkyries is fairly limited since there's no Macross on TV (people that don't know a lot about what to get for gifts see something that seems popular on TV and then gets it for their kid) and, as previously stated, they aren't good toys. And QC isn't good. So we essentially get to pay for other people's mistakes. One thing that has always struck me as odd is that people don't want Macross if it isn't done by Kawamori. At least it's doing something with the show - if something wouldn't happen then it would eventually die out. Look at Macross 2 - most people don't like it but they love the VF-2SS. If someone came up with a new Macross TV series there would be toys and models from it and, probably, some of the older stuff would get reissued.

[1 VF-1 2NV]

I WILL NOT PAY MOR THAN $50US FOR THE 1/60 HIKARU VF-1J GBP ARMOR BUNDLE . YOU HEAR ME YAMATO !

[estacado06479]

no...i said in JAPAN, they arent that expensive, if you're in Japan, you can go down to toysrus and get a 1/48 under 100 bucks,  which is a good price, relatively.

actually you said

my point is, they have never been high to begin with.

so, i don't see "japan" in your post at all. i know it doesn't cost as much in japan but most of us here are from the US....i think?

oh, no one said anything about charging COST, i just said it, if it costs $15- $20 to make and what you would charge if you were the manufacturer.

BTW, "you want reality.........i am reality"

ehh, dude, no offense, dont continue, you are wrong.

in my first post, i said that in japan, thye were under 100...so please...just stop...

[Uxi]

Very interesting perspective, Monkey-N. I wonder just how much the "gray market" US sales are compared to their Japanese sales. I would imagine they'd have an English language website if it was as significant as you say. Unless they want us relying on babelfish.

Like Haterist, I found the Yamatos from MW, which I found after a search for Robotech items. I remember being excited over the MPC's first announcement. Then debated between the "fragile" nature of the Yamatos vs the sturdiness of the chunky-monkey Bandai reissues. I chose Yamato and have never looked back.

I really wish they would just come to some arrangement with HG. Slap an HG logo on there, call it the Rick or whatever. Allow "plain" Japanese/Macross versions as collectors will want through ordinary channels... It's all about money. HG probably wants too much. BW doesn't want to give up any (whether they should or not is best left to the dedicated thread in Other Anime/Sci-Fi)...

I just want affordable Valkyries. As is, the 1/48 and probably the monster will be too expensive for me to get too many more of.

[estacado06479]

oh...and for the record, i was agreeing with what you said...you just werent reading carefully...and you were blaming yamato for the problem and not who should be blamed.

[kensei]

Like most other people, I would like for 1/48s to be at a more affordable price.

Don't get me wrong and think I'm looking down on them, because the 1/48 is the most beautiful toy I've ever seen. Pretty much nothing else I know of can match its brilliance.

BTW before I ask any questions, what's a grey market?

[nemesis120]

BTW before I ask any questions, what's a grey market?

It's a semi-legitimate market. Ebay here is a grey market for Yamatos and Bandais since they aren't supposed to be here. Also, re-importing stuff (such as medicines and computer software) and selling it constitutes a grey market.

[estacado06479]

actually, it isnt grey at all...its illegal

these toys are not for sale in the US, period. there is no grey about it.

does that stop me? hells no, but i know there isnt any "grey" area

[kensei]

actually, it isnt grey at all...its illegal

these toys are not for sale in the US, period.  there is no grey about it.

does that stop me?  hells no,  but i know there isnt any "grey" area

Two questions guys.

1. In your opinion is the price of the 1/48 justified? Without the influence of MW and co. saying "I'll pay X dollars for this" etc. For a toy that is made out of High quality materials and also a very beautiful and accurate sculpt and perfect transformation, is it worth the price you have paid?

2. The reason for the high prices of 1/48 and all Macross prducts in general is due to the licencing act under which HG have the power to block sales on normal retailers shelves.

Edited October 15, 2003 by kensei

[estacado06479]

1. anything is worth ANY amount...to the person willing to pay. it is hard to put concrete value on things not readily available because they are either not for sale in the US, or antiques. the general lee signed by bo and luke duke, to me, would be worth a great deal. maybe you hate the duke boys, maybe youve never seen the show and you say, its a butt ugly orange charger with an arguabley racist flag on it, it isnt worth anything.

2. is this a question or a statement. yes, the price point in the US is largely due to HG owning copyright on these items in the US (by hook or by crook) and not allowing them to be sold legally here.