Officially Schwarzenegger

[Agent ONE]

This should be interesting...

meh... Just some angry lefty.

What was that about politics and mods again?

I can call someone an angry lefty, same way he can call me a fascist jerk-off, simple insults seem to be ok on MW. Its when we get into the details of politics the Mods get pissed… But since you mentioned it…

FM, I am sorry I called you an angry lefty… I really should have said angry teenager.

[Hurin]

So, A1, did you see the A&E thing? I think I'm not alone in being curious about your opinion on it.

H

[Agent ONE]

So, A1, did you see the A&E thing? I think I'm not alone in being curious about your opinion on it.

H

I haven't seen it yet. I am actually alittle affraid to. I mean Arnold is my hero, always has been. There are weaknesses that all humans have, and personally I would prefer to not see Arnold's. I know that this movie is really going to plow into his various personality disorders (as some shrinks would call them) and his fears and stuff like that... I just never want to think of him like that.

Do you remember when you were a little kid, the first time you saw your Father get hurt? I mean like something as simple as twisting his ankle and falling down while playing soccer with you or something... All in that one moment you realized that he wasn't indestructible. Everyone has been there and that moment hurts. I just don't want that feeling again.

Do you know what I am talking about, or am I not making any sense?

[Hurin]

Well, I don't remember my dad getting hurt. But I do remember that very dismaying feeling when I realized that some things could go wrong in the world that my parents couldn't fix (illness, nuclear war, etc.). Sorta the same feeling?

I wouldn't worry about the Arnold movie. It's pretty much a love letter to him. It treats him very kindly, I think. If anything it paints his critics (the LA Times, Huffington) as partisan hacks.

That isn't to say that it doesn't address his childhood motivations and such. . . but I don't think you'll have much of a problem in the way they do it.

If you can endure the "old Arnold" actor, I'd say it's worth seeing. It's not exactly a good movie or biopic. I'd put it in the same corny class as that "Late Shift" movie that chronicled the Letterman-Leno post-Johnny retirment fiasco. But if you're an Arnold-o-phile, I can't see how you can miss it.

Or, to put it in your terms. . . Stop acting like a girly man and just watch it already.

H

Edited February 2, 2005 by Hurin

[Wes]

I remember when I was young and my father cut a good chunck of his thumb off on his new routing table - I just got up, brought some clean towels and helped put pressure on it. No big deal.

Or, to put it in your terms. . . Stop acting like a girly man and just watch it already. 

Word

Edited February 3, 2005 by Wes

[Agent ONE]

I am talkin like when you were LITTLE kids, like 3 or 4.

[Wes]

Yes, I was about that age.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Schwarzenegger... "I have very rarely seen the government do anything that was effective."

I dissagree with the other stuff you said but politics is not allowed on MW so you better can it before a mod cans you.

I am not a lefty and if I was I wouldn't even be offended. Also I am much older than a teenager. And your canning comment was curt and uncalled for.

The quote you shared is ironic, considering his current "position".

Also even if supports drug enhancements in sports like weight lifting, personally I am against it. We are seeing across the board in all pro sports how enhancements drastically improve athletes performance. IMO is it really the athlete that achieved all those improvements and maximized their physical prowess, or does it have to do more with the drug enhancements?

Arnold is a funny actor but I don't take him seriously as an entertainer or a role model. He seems like his is amicable and down to earth, but I personally do not look up to someone strictly b/c they achieve subjective standards of physical perfection. Don't get me wrong in his day, he was impressive but was his body due more to his dedication and hardwork OR was it physically attributed more to the juice he took? I doubt even he knows b/c there was limited to almost no testing done back then.

Some people might perceive all I am doing is split hairs but in reality I am raising questions most people do not even wish to acknowledge.

Edited February 3, 2005 by Fortress_Maximus

[runningman]

"more weight daddy!!!!!!"

[Hurin]

I am not sure how it is hypocrisy for someone to do something stupid in his youth and then, having grown older and wiser, try to disuade young people from making the same mistake.

That just seems (as Christopher Hitchens would say) to be a rather "unserious" criticizm.

Though, if A1 is correct, Arnold isn't even doing that. He has been consistent regarding steroids.

H

[CaptRico]

I'm hoping this pic is not seen as political, but it's just so darn cool! And what is that? Japanese? WTF?

Edit to add: that is one butt ugly tie he has on. He may be able to kick my ass but for god's sake Arnie let your wife dress you!

It's like he's saying "I got my eye on you, motha f****..."

[Agent ONE]

...

Also even if supports drug enhancements in sports like weight lifting, personally I am against it. We are seeing across the board in all pro sports how enhancements drastically improve athletes performance. IMO is it really the athlete that achieved all those improvements and maximized their physical prowess, or does it have to do more with the drug enhancements?

...

Well, Arnold supports the research of hormone therapy for better health and a greater level of physical fitness according to his "Modern Encyclopedia of Body Building."

Anronold DOES NOT support cheating with such hormones. Cheating and health are totally different subjects.

You DO realize that "steriods" were developed to treat medical conditions right? Its not like heroine or anything.

What I think you have fallen victim to is the media and their super dramatic stance on the drugs... They'd have you believe that these chemicals make mild mannered high school students into 500 lb maniacs that rape women and rob banks to buy more juice. That isn't the case... At all.

[Fortress_Maximus]

The fact that he is not dissuading aspiring youths is partly what bothers me. Another thing that bothers me is how he is so revered merely for his physical assets/accomplishments. People idolize this man and literally put him up on pedestal. But what is this based on really? His contributions to society as a whole? Perhaps he encouraged the promotion of physical education in the public school systems? Nope, he had many chances to do that but did not. Maybe he used his Hollywood clout to raise funding for research or improving education or health in other countries? Nope, what he is generally known for is his films and his former weight lifting accomplishments, that is what defines him.

IMO as a role model and hero in the eyes of so many youths internationally, he should be held to a higher standard. After all, if this man is idolized based primarily on his physical achievements, we are the doing the same thing that is happening with pro athletes and sending the wrong message to the youth of this world.

What kind of message are we sending to the youth of the world? It is ok to take drugs to enhance your physique or to improve your academic abilities, so long as you become the best? As for the excuse he was young and it a)did not know better and b)they were not illegal then; ignorance is not bliss and it is b/c he was young and did not know any better, that he should in fact be warning people NOW not to engage in the use of any performance enhancing drugs. He should know better.

Think about it, what kind of qualities do you think a REAL HERO should have? IMO, some qualities a hero and a positive role model should have is: service for the greater good of the public, the selfless dedication to sharing knowledge and experience with others, and leaving a positive legacy for others. Real heroes are often unsung and exist everyday around us, larger ignored. People like educators, nurses, firemen, soldiers in the military, veterans, policemen, and loving/nuturing parents, just to name a few. All of these people helped make the world a better place and they left a lasting legacy. Just my two cents.

[Agent ONE]

The fact that he is not dissuading aspiring youths is partly what bothers me. Another thing that bothers me is how he is so revered merely for his physical assets/accomplishments. People idolize this man and literally put him up on pedestal. But what is this based on really? His contributions to society as a whole? Perhaps he encouraged the promotion of physical education in the public school systems? Nope, he had many chances to do that but did not. Maybe he used his Hollywood clout to raise funding for research or improving education or health in other countries? Nope, what he is generally known for is his films and his former weight lifting accomplishments, that is what defines him.

IMO as a role model and hero in the eyes of so many youths internationally, he should be held to a higher standard. After all, if this man is idolized based primarily on his physical achievements, we are the doing the same thing that is happening with pro athletes and sending the wrong message to the youth of this world.

What kind of message are we sending to the youth of the world? It is ok to take drugs to enhance your physique or to improve your academic abilities, so long as you become the best? As for the excuse he was young and it a)did not know better and b)they were not illegal then; ignorance is not bliss and it is b/c he was young and did not know any better, that he should in fact be warning people NOW not to engage in the use of any performance enhancing drugs. He should know better.

Think about it, what kind of qualities do you think a REAL HERO should have? IMO, some qualities a hero and a positive role model should have is: service for the greater good of the public, the selfless dedication to sharing knowledge and experience with others, and leaving a positive legacy for others. Real heroes are often unsung and exist everyday around us, larger ignored. People like educators, nurses, firemen, soldiers in the military, veterans, policemen, and loving/nuturing parents, just to name a few. All of these people helped make the world a better place and they left a lasting legacy. Just my two cents.

Nothing Arnold has ever done has encouraged kids to break the law. Steriods may be good for you, and thats the way Arnold feels about it, but remember back in the day, using those drugs was NOT against any law. You can't bitch at him for something that wasn't against the law.

As far as being a role model... You ever heard of the Special Olympics? He ran it for years. As well as being on Bush Sr. physical fitness council.

http://www.schwarzenegger.com/asas.asp

[Jolly Rogers]

Pwned again.

[Agent ONE]

Pwned again.

LOL..

eh, its easy for ppl to fall into the media trap. I mean what they say about tons of stuff is BS, they just want things to be exciting so people watch. Being a former Division 1 Rugby player I have seen the entire world of steriods and I understand how they work. I don't really expect anyone to have that same kind of info.

[Hurin]

His contributions to society as a whole? Perhaps he encouraged the promotion of physical education in the public school systems? Nope, he had many chances to do that but did not. . .

I stopped reading there. Because you are apparently ignorant on the topic.

Arnold was the spokesperson for the President's Council on Physical Education throughout the (first) Bush Administration. And do you know what he did in that post? Well, the ironic part is that I can describe it just by editing your own quote. He went around the country (I even saw him on Letterman) and. . . "encouraged the promotion of physical education in the public school systems."

So. . . uh. . . be quiet.

H

Edited February 3, 2005 by Hurin

[Fortress_Maximus]

...

Well, Arnold supports the research of hormone therapy for better health and a greater level of physical fitness according to his "Modern Encyclopedia of Body Building."

Anronold DOES NOT support cheating with such hormones. Cheating and health are totally different subjects.

You DO realize that "steriods" were developed to treat medical conditions right? Its not like heroine or anything.

What I think you have fallen victim to is the media and their super dramatic stance on the drugs... They'd have you believe that these chemicals make mild mannered high school students into 500 lb maniacs that rape women and rob banks to buy more juice. That isn't the case... At all.

Actually no. I do not fall prey to the extremely slanted, unobjective media reports in general and on steroids. But I am concerned with the lack of information Arnold especially is sharing in reducing the promotion of drug enhancements in sports. He does not and that bothers me. As for the positive use for medicinal purposes, that is not at issue here b/c it is not used in the weight lifting community for that expressed benefit. Thus that benefit is irrelevent in relation to Arnold and what he used the drug for.

Also I never said anything about how negative physiological changes may result from steroid or performance enhancing drugs. I would not assume that and besides I didn’t raise this issue. Furthermore, none of this changes the fact he is idolized for nothing more than his former psychical accomplishments. I still stand by what I wrote that he makes a poor role model for the youth of the world.

Edited February 3, 2005 by Fortress_Maximus

[Hurin]

I'm having trouble reconciling these statements into any cogent criticizm. . .

he is overrated as a former athlete is hypocritical b/c he used the “juice” himself, but denounces others from doing the same. Uh huh, double standard bud. Sadly his doublespeak and double standards is not restricted to just his stance on “juice”,

Then. . .

The fact that he is not dissuading aspiring youths is partly what bothers me.

Then, finally. . .

But I am concerned with the lack of information Arnold especially is sharing in reducing the promotion of drug enhancements in sports.

So, if he comes out against them, he's a hypocrite. If he does not, he's disappointing you.

Some people might perceive all I am doing is split hairs but in reality I am raising questions most people do not even wish to acknowledge.

Uh. . . we're aware of the "questions" you are raising. We just think they're a bit lame. Personally, I think you're actually the one engaging in stereotyping. Nobody here (except perhaps A1) worships Arnold. And those of us who admire him do not admire him simply for his "physical perfection." The man has accomplished a great deal in life and is a role model for those who believe hard work and dedication can pay off even for an immigrant who arrived on these shores with nothing. Though, I can see why it is convenient for you to denigrate and stereotype both Arnold and those who admire him and his accomplishments.

And, I might also point out that your oh-so-deep "questions" aren't exactly the type of questions we come here to discuss on an anime discussion board.

H

[Agent ONE]

...

Well, Arnold supports the research of hormone therapy for better health and a greater level of physical fitness according to his "Modern Encyclopedia of Body Building."

Anronold DOES NOT support cheating with such hormones. Cheating and health are totally different subjects.

You DO realize that "steriods" were developed to treat medical conditions right? Its not like heroine or anything.

What I think you have fallen victim to is the media and their super dramatic stance on the drugs... They'd have you believe that these chemicals make mild mannered high school students into 500 lb maniacs that rape women and rob banks to buy more juice. That isn't the case... At all.

Actually no. I do not fall prey to the extremely slanted, unobjective media reports in general and on steroids. But I am concerned with the lack of information Arnold especially is sharing in reducing the promotion of drug enhancements in sports. He does not and that bothers me. As for the positive use for medicinal purposes, that is not at issue here b/c it is not used in the weight lifting community for that expressed benefit. Thus that benefit is irrelevent in relation to Arnold and what he used the drug for.

Also I never said anything about how negative physiological changes may result from steroid or performance enhancing drugs. I would not assume that and besides I didn’t raise this issue. Furthermore, none of this changes the fact he is idolized for nothing more than his former psychical accomplishments. I still stand by what I wrote that he makes a poor role model for the youth of the world.

You are just repeating the same nonsense argument that I have already addressed...

Also:

Learn how to use the "QUOTE" feature.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Thanks for sinking down to ad hominems guys, shows real class.

Also just b/c this is in the anime forum, why can't we engage in more discussion other than the superficial?

Lastly, I repeated my points purposefully. I am trying to get someone to rebuke my primary points that: a)Arnold should help end the abuse of performance enhancing, especially since he knows they are bad, b)that people generally see him not simply as a immigrant who achieved the American dream or as testiment to what one can do if they work hard, but that he his revered b/c of his physique.

[Jemstone]

Also just b/c this is in the anime forum, why can't we engage in more discussion other than the superficial?

Cuz it's an anime forum? Besides too many times political/religious debates have gotten out of hand.

Edited February 3, 2005 by Jemstone

[mechaninac]

A1, Hurin. Forget it. Don't waste any more time on FM. It's clear that he's just arguing for the sake of arguing. And I get the feeling that he falls into the category of people who denigrate those more successful then themselves because doing so makes them feel less burdened by their own failures.

I admire Arnold because he is his own man; an intelligent immigrant who decided to be successful and take advantage of the opportunities available to anyone with a modicum of ambition in this country. I admire him not because of his athleticism, or his physic, or that he is/was a popular action star, or that he's a Governor, or what he said or did regarding steroids, or how he dispenses his public time; I admire him because of what he represents to anyone who has the will to succeed ...and that is why he's a role model (i.e.. someone to be emulated).

[Hurin]

Your points are so trivial that they don't really warrant "rebuking" (I belive the word you are looking for is "refute", my friend).

But, since you are apparently my new favorite toy, here we go:

a)Arnold should help end the abuse of performance enhancing, especially since he knows they are bad

First, make him! No, seriously, this is what you think he should be spending time on. Me? I think he should probably spend more time being the governor of the largest state in the Union.

Second, you have still failed to "rebuke" my point that you are not being consistent in your calls for his "rebuking" of steroid use. First, you said that he decrys them. Now you decry that he is not decrying them.

Third, maybe Arnold believes (as A1 asserts) that they don't do any harm. Is he not allowed to disagree with you and concentrate on other issues which he does believe in?

Fourth, I'll bet that you were one of those people rolling your eyes at Bush when he mentioned the steroid problems in sports. No, I can't prove it, but the way you slide from one side of a position to another as long as it hurts your intended target makes me feel pretty good about this assertion.

b)that people generally see him not simply as a immigrant who achieved the American dream or as testiment to what one can do if they work hard, but that he his revered b/c of his physique.

So, let me get this straight, I'm supposed to "rebuke" your opinion even though you've provided no basis for it? All I can say is what I know about why I admire the man and why many people that I know do as well. All you have asserted is that they love his body. This isn't an arguement.

So, to put it another way, you haven't presented an argument to. . . (one more time). . . (wait for it). . . "rebuke."

You seem to me to be someone who is just getting their feet wet in the world of political thought and discussion. So, you come up with a pet little idea and decide that it's oh-so-deep. . . and then you want to take it out for a test drive and argue about it with strangers. The problem is that what you're saying isn't exactly new, exciting, or worth much of anyone's time. Especially because there is little consistency from post-to-post. I've already given your quaint little attempts at sophistry more time than they're worth.

H

Edited February 3, 2005 by Hurin

[Agent ONE]

Great post Hurin.

[Wes]

Ok, my little join-in, to keep up:

Why should Arnold have to be in the media denouncing steriods? That's the last thing we need - another Hollywood star telling me how to think/live. Of course, given his experience, he, just like any man, should provide what information he has on the issue. He doesn't need to stand up on a mike once a month and say it, but I hope if a friend of his asked him about steriods, he'd tell them right, wouldn't you?

And, as stated earlier, Arnold is big on the Special Olympics. When it came to NC, our city hosted the Monaco group, my stepdad was at the time Deputy Mayor so he made sure they were taken care of, and he said Arnold and his wife was there any they were really good people.

Now, while people joke about his physique and voice, I think that generally, yes, they do respect him for truely living the American Dream. Now, not to be policital, this is only an example so don't take it anywhere, there are presidents and senators that we don't like in this world, but who with any sense of decency not refer to them as Mr. President, Senator, etc? People in America do accept successful people.

And what's the big deal on how he helps people out? Physical fitness has such vast range than most people recognize, but is vital to our well-being, as the obesity-trends are showing us. If that's his calling, well, let him have it.

No, he isn't a saint(anyone still have that "He's comming" vid, or is the link in here still working? ) but that doesn't mean he can't be respected, and even admired, just got to take the good and the bad and be able to take from it what you can, like a rational adult.

btw, CaptRico, why are you digging up stuff from over a year ago?!? Boy you need to catch up!

[Panzer]

you know you guys are hot for him..

[Jolly Rogers]

you know you guys are hot for him..

Is that jealousy I detect?

[Agent ONE]

you know you guys are hot for him..

Hot!? for ME!? Who isn't!!!

[Stamen0083]

you know you guys are hot for him..

Hell yeah.

[Agent ONE]

Funny ad:

http://www.larrymccusker.com/sergiomovie.html

[Mechamaniac]

Funny ad:

http://www.larrymccusker.com/sergiomovie.html

From the looks of it, Ole Sergio is dancing with the wrong gender.

[Agent ONE]

Funny ad:

http://www.larrymccusker.com/sergiomovie.html

From the looks of it, Ole Sergio is dancing with the wrong gender.

nah, he just has a very Cuban style.

[Zentrandude]

Funny ad:

http://www.larrymccusker.com/sergiomovie.html

From the looks of it, Ole Sergio is dancing with the wrong gender.

nah, he just has a very Cuban style.

other cubans say hes too cuban

[Agent ONE]

Maybe he is gay... who knows. I know its sad that a former Mr. Olympia has to have a life like that.