VFTF1

This is all logical, Killer Robot- but it also brings up an interesting paradox: On the one hand, the Zendradi in SDFM envied the humans for their repair techniques, and kept their own ships (and presumambly mecha) in greatdisrepair. On the other hand, Klan Klan praises the Zendradi in Frontier for having mecha that will keep on running for thousands of years without needing to update it, or improve the technology. The Protoculture apparently prefered this kind of durable mecha to a constantly upgraded sort which would present new problems to deal with? Now - this is interesting to me - why di the Protoculture not develop variable mecha? Why is this a human invention? And is variable mecha better or worse than non-variable (yet still adaptive) mecha? Zendradi mecha were clearly adaptive to multiple environments without being variable. I always thought the only reason the battroid mode was concieved was LITERALLY for hand to hand combat with flesh and blood giant Zendradi presumambly not inside their mecha? Pete Edit: But the kick was delivered to a flesh and blood opponent - so there wasn't much risk that Max would damage his thruster/feet? Also - Russkie - was Brettai really a machine??

Have we seen a lot of good high quality pictures of the 1/24 Patlabor yet? I haven't - if they exist, please point the way. From what I have read, it is going to be loaded with detail and also has electronic lights. I don't think 28000 Yen for something as big as the 1/24 Patlabor and supposedly as feature heavy is a large price. The CMS are cheaper and also look very nice- I would be curious as to what (beyond larger size) the Yamato Patlabor has to offer that the CMSs don't? In any event, it's a bit too early to make a judgment call on that one. The YF-19 at 18000 yen is also a good deal - I don't see the problem with that price. Sure, lack of fast pack sucks; but then again with the fast pack it would likely cost as much as the YF-21 does now (which comes with Fast Packs and a stand) - and so there's always a trade off there. In the final analysis - if indeed it costs them 5000 Yen to produce one Valkyrie then that is a HUGE HUGE COST. A deluxe Transformer costs TWENTY FIVE AMERICAN CENTS to produce and sells for between 10 and 14 USD. Look at those proportions - that means that the production cost compared to the final retail price of a TF is likely 0.025 percent! That is a vaaaaaaast profit margin for everybody in the logistics chain AND a decent price for the consumer. If Yamato wanted to charge a proportional amount to what Hasbro were charging, the final retail price would have to be over 600,000 JPY for one Valkyrie. THAT would be insane. As things stand, the final retail price on a Valkyrie is likely roughly 3 times the cost of production. Those are RAZOR THIN margins for everybody involved - including Yamato. Yet they have basically been able to take the idea that a company like Studio Half Eye had (perfect transformation and perfect detail) and make it into a mass market success - relatively speaking. As high priced as the Yammies are - they are still, grudgingly, at the end of the day - AFFORDABLE for the majority of people who have a regular middle class job. You might only be able to buy 4 or 5 over the course of a year - but for Yamato that would mean you've bought about 1/3 of their Macross product line up for a given year - meaning - good. In any event, 5000 Yen as the cost of producing a "toy" is insanely high and it takes gutts to run a company that makes things with such marginally huge costs of prodution. Pete

I have seen some really fantastic Asian movies lately; and best of all - in the cinema with my girlfriend who also loves them. They are: 2046, directed by Wong Kar Wai: I love the atmosphere in this movie. It blends everything that I ove in cinema (namely old Bogart type flicks with science fiction) and it is a very Shakespearian/theatrical film with great acting. Lust Caution, direcyed by Ang Lee: This is a MUST SEE movie. The political intrigue is fascinating; the human drama is very very moving - it is all about how young people's view of life as was taught to them in schoo, through history and an "abstract" political view is suddenly confronted by the personal element in human nature - and to very tragic results for all parties concerned. This is a really great thriller - and done with a style and class that makes it a cut above the rest Highly recommended. There were some other movies I've also seen, but not as memorable, although I am always on the look out for excellent Asian cinema. Oh yeah - maybe this is cliche - but I really thought that the Japanese version of the Ring was amazing. The scariest horror film that I've ever seen. Probably why I never watched it a second time... And the funny thing is - I'm looking to watch it again, only I want to watch it WITH somebody (first time around I watched it with my ex-girlfriend). Sad thing is - I can't find anyone who wants to re-watch it with me. Everyone I know has seen it, been traumatized, and doesn't want to ever see it again Go figure. Pete

I think it's funny that we're getting new VF-1s from a tv show that aired in 1982 faster than we're getting the VF-25s from the tv show that aired one month ago Pete

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...cial&st=720 Already a thread. Regards, Pete

Without better pictures, it's hard to tell at this point. I'm so behind on my Gundam hobby.... Waiting on a bunch of Universal Century stuff now, and I STILL haven't built all of my OO models even ... Pete

Really great stuff people. Personally, I would love to have these kinds of vehicles done as part of dioramas that are 1/60 in scale with the new v.2 fighters and other 1/60 valks. My personal dream is a to sale Macross City (inside the Macross) TV version. That would be sweet Pete

Another thing to note - now that I think about it- Battroid, despite ostensibly being good for hand to hand combat...actually sucks at it - or at least that is what it seems like... I mean - Hikaru was totally devastated by Breetai's bare hands (as Misa liked to point out when scolding him)... so the battroid turned out to be not very effective in actual hand to hand combat. The only time I remember a battroid being used WELL in hand to hand was in Macross Zero - by Nora - who managed to perform what appeared like a roundhouse kick against a VF-OA in gerwalk mode. Also - Max's use of the 1A in SDFMTV was of course great - but he used the battroid not in hand to hand but in ariel combat and with a gunpod - so...doesn't really count as hand to hand. The most Hand to hand that we ever saw was - if I'm not mistaken - in Macross Zero (battle in the city between 19 and 21) and then a WHOLE LOT in Macross Frontier, where Valkyrie freely engaged in knife fights with the Vajra... So the hand to hand record of the battroids seems mixed - although, it's also hard to say because the battles in Space Wars I were huge - so there might have been much more hand to hand going on.... But remember - another good example - when the Zendradi attacked that city to get he Micloning devise, they ripped Battroids apart like paper - and again the battroids didn't seem very effective in actual hand to hand combat. When you think about - this isn't surprising... I mean - the actuall hydraulic construction of a battroid probably does not make it as swift as Bruce Lee in fighting hand to hand - and I can't really see a Battroid "kicking" anybody because of the potential damage to its' engines or feul lines - here the SV-51 seemed to be very well designed because the legs had "claws" - clearly serving NO PURPOSE EXCEPT TO ENHANCE BATTROID mode fighting skills... Battroid is an interesting idea - but in practice, the results seem to have been very mixed. The only fluid battroid fighting we've really seen is in Plus... Pete

Soooo....long time no new pictures or news... can someone remind me? Is this thing coming out like....next Christmas? Pete

I will be getting it next year for sure. I do notice that nobody seems to have much love for it, probably due to the drab colors; but it actually doesn't look that bad now that I've looked at it for a few months... I imagine it has no QC issues. My first wave Ivanov had a couple of QC issues (wing pin did not want to close fully and missiles were reeeeaaally a pain in the butt to attach to wings), but my new Ivanov has no such problems, while my Nora is tight and perfect as well. Pete

But the 1/48 1S can't do it... the bending out of the neck thing... at least I tried last night and it can't - or should...apply more pressure? Pete

Yay! The 1-D. Where are the pre-orders?? Pete

No need for a poll there. After all, like Gubaba said EVERYONE luvs Bassara RIGHT?!?!?!

What Mr. March said is what popped into my mind as well. Initially, I was pretty set on voting for Gerwalk for the same reasons as RusskieAussie, but then I suddenly remember how Max shocked everyone when he went ape poop in battroid mode demonstrating that it actually can do everything that the fighter mode is supposed to do only better. So... The answer is: It depends on the pilot. Pete

Well - I watched the first two parts... it doesn't seem that bad. Pretty standard Transformers fair. The animation errors like Bonecrusher fighting alongside the Autobots or Brawn being alive aren't really all that shocking - stuff like that happened all the time - and for me - it was always a great excuse for making up stories about WHY that happened (aka - what ulterior motive did Bonecrusher have for suddenly turning on the machine he and his fellow Constructicons built?). Soundwave is a tad out of character here - insofar as he's excited and extroverted - but I guess that's excusable since he supposedly is in awe of the power of this planet's harmonics/music/sound - so he gets excited once in his life. Ultra Magnus on the other hand has a major major phalic fixation - he just keeps trying to put Galvatron's cannon (or Galvatron in cannon mode) between his legs and fire it. This is just TOO hilarious As for the other stuff - it isn't that off kilter from what I'm used to in Transformers. The animation is visibly slower than in other episodes - and maybe that's why the errors are more noticable? Also - in some scenes, where Soundave looks "deformed" - I was instantly reminded of what he looks like in...Transformers Animated. Pete

No chance that these will be under my tree... I will probably have them around the time of my Birthday thought so that's good enough. Turn 30 - get Macross Frontier valkyrie: sounds about right to me Pete

What's that magazine with the Macross Frontier stuff on it doing there? Pete

I just want to add one thing to what Sketchley has written: Some might wish to infer from it, that IF it were possible to just "buy directly" from Yamato, then things would be a whole lot cheaper than if there were wholesalers, retailers, and the multiple shipping charges in between. NOT TRUE. Why? Because if producers - Yamato or anyone else - decided to also sell their product directly to consumers, then they would have to incur HUGE costs. Yamato would have to invest in putting a store EVERYWHERE where there is now a store - because there wouldn't be one if it wasn't making some kind of money to stay afloat. Yamato would in essence - have to shift its' focus from the design and production of goods to their distribution and a massive global logistics. Even if they were to go the route of selling via the internet from one place, then they would still have to pay to maintain a whare house, pay people to provide customer service, pay for boxes, pay for computers to hold info on the customers etc etc etc. One could say the same about just about any other industry. Wouldn't food be cheaper if farmers just up and sold it to us directly? Wouldn't your shoes be cheaper if the guy at the factory just put them in a box and shipped them to you after producing them? N-O. No. In fact - if every producer were their own distributor then things would BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THEY ARE NOW. Why? Well - because if every producer were their own distributor, then each good would have ONLY ONE DISTRIBUTOR - you'd have a monopoly situation with no price competition, no competition in customer service - just ONE DISTRIBUTOR. Worse still - if you wanted to buy one Transformer, one Valkyrie and one Gundam - you'd have to buy each of them seperately from each producer and pay three times the shipping fee rather than being able to get them together from a retailer who went to the trouble of risking to stock up on a variety of goods. It's called division of labor. It allows people to specialize in what they're best at and use money as a medium of exchange to trade labor values that otherwise would be very hard to "calculate" (aka - if you're an auto mechanic and you want to buy my YF-19 - what can you offer me? You'll tune up my car? I don't have a car. So...how are we supposed to trade?). Complaining about this is really pointless because it's like complaining about the fact that sooner or later, you're going to run out of breath if you jog enough hours. As with everything in economics, marginal improvements are possible. Better logistics, better production techniques, good marketing - all of this can and does bring higher quality items at lower prices to more people. But it happens because everyone is trying to "greedily" make a little moe money, save a little more time, and get things done with less work and less hassel. If you suddenly frown on that "greedy" bit - then there will be no incentive for people to try and improve anything in life. Pete

This doesn't surprise me and sounds about right. I would add something else to please consider: The majority of large toy manufacturers offerr a broad, diverse range of items, from high-end upper market merchandise to cheaper goods and everything in between. Yamato does not do this - Yamato seems to be obsessively focused on simply developing perfect incarnations of Anime mecha and maybe statues of anime girls as a side thing - in any event - they certainly are not gearing their business to providing a diverse offering. Add to this another fact: there are really not that many Valkyrie - notice how a standard Valkyrie seems to be on sale for...FIVE YEARS from its' initial production run. This makes sense since, once they put the effort into making it so perfect, then they have nothing else to sell EXCEPT THAT VALKYRIE. Discussions in this thread seem to be going on under the impression that Yamato creates something and then, after - say - one year of selling it - gets their money back + profits. I would venture to speculate that given how few Valkyrie there are - what - 10? 15? - and given what Graham said - then Yamato is prbably looking at a profit horizon of...three years. That is - from the moment they concieved of and spent the money on making a mold of - say - the 1/60 YF-19 - it will probably take three years of selling that YF-19 for them to make a profit. Also - "make a profit" does not necessarily mean "make a killing" - it just means making a bit of a profit; paying your employees and costs and having some money left over to invest or whatever. So - yeah - I'm sad that this poll has the "yes they're greedy" option winning. I think we should be more thankful that they do what they do and limit our complaints to meritorious ones: QC issues, durability, accuracy to the line art - all of these are legit subjects. Price is also a legit subject. However - I just don't think it's fair to say that they are being "greedy" in what they are doing. It's a tough line of business that they're in, with some pretty heavy competition, limited by the licensing debacle (so they can't even hope to sell larger amounts of Valkyrie overseas and have no way to legally market the stuff outside of Japan). It's a feakin' miracle that they even exist and that we have the pleasure and pride of saying that our hobby -Macross - has the BEST transformable figures produced on the market today. Pete EDIT: Unless I am very mistaken, there should also be one other point added to Graham's "calculations" - namely the VAT tax in Japan. Also, do Chinese imports (and if the Valkyrie are made in China and then shipped to Japan) also carry a VAT and import tarrif charge when they are brought into Japan? (I would think they do). The VAT is no small matter from the point of view of the consumer and adds a significant amount to the price.

Generally I agree with Eugimon, but will add my three cents anyways... I think you make a lot of good points here. If Yamato is a publicly listed/traded company, then getting their annual profit data should not be that difficult. Remember, however, that a company's profits are not the same thing as, say, the salary of the guy designing the Valk or building the mold etc etc etc. I wonder how much the QC guy made? ... Jokes aside though - you are correct in your line of thinking; at least I agree with you. As for the Votoms getting marked down - initially, that is a sign that the retailer is loosing quite a bit of money - but ultimately it does filter back to the producer, because the producer suddenly finds the wholesaler saying "we have too much of these and our retail customers don't want any more" - and if the producer ends up with too much, then crazy things happen. Everybody looses money. The consumer also looses in the long run, because if a product line fails utterly then it is usually canceled, suspended and companies will simply decide - meh - nobody wants this stuff and move on to making something more viable. I mention this because - the example you give - with the Destroids costing so much - can be viewed in a different light: Imagine what would have happened had Yamato's initial line of 1/72s - with all their shortcomings and flaws - TOTALLY bombed and not sold? Imagine what would have happened if their other stuff didn't sell or, if it sold for very little? It is very very very hard to project into the future as to which portions of your assortment will be shelf warmers and which won't. So a company tends to jack up the price on EVERYTHING in the hopes that at the end of the sales cycle, the stuff which sold very well will have brought in enough money to cover for the stuff that's still sitting on the shelves and no body wants even at 75% off retail (case in point: check the main page of HLJ for that Samurai thingy - it actually looks pretty cool - but not cool enough to warrant 98000 JPY I guess)... So - if you look at it this way - then you suddenly realize that high prices even on items that seem not to warrant them is a gamble to cover a company's bets. This is especially true of smaller companies which can't take full advantage of the economies of scale, which Yamato can't. Of course it's not a street urchent and Macross isn't some obscure past time of basement dwellers - but compared to Bandai and Takara, or Hasbro for that matter, Yamato is not very big at all. As for the weathering VF-1S - Eugimon basically said it all - and I'm not surprised it was so hard to get outside of Japan and for so much money. If I wanted you to go down to your local wal-mart and pick me up an Animated Wreck-gar, pack him up nicely and send it to me now - wouldn't you want to be somewhat compensated for your time? If I understand correctly, the only way for people outside of Japan to get the weathered fokker was via people IN Japan and a complex ordering process. Time and work are also a factor in the pricing of such goods. Finally - also please notice that this is our second "Yamato valkyrie are too expensive" thread (basically) - and yet NOBODY seems to notice that the 1/48 Angelbird now costs as much as a Binaltech Transformer. Of course, this has nothing to do with Yamato, but is simply a retailer trying to get rid of overstock - but the point is; overstock does happen; and for every example of something that is "insanely priced" you will likely find something that is a "real bargain." Pete

Now who's being "greedy" ? I dunno - I have nothing against complaining about QC and discussing the legitimacy of pricing policy and final prices. I guess I just get instinctively defensive whenever accusations like "they're greedy" get flung around, or "too greedy." This kind of accusation suggests some kind of malice on the part of Yamato, which in my mind is just a bit far fetched. All the more since the entire thread is a little bit hypocritical... I mean - the thread basically illusrates that WE are also greedy, and sometimes "too greedy" insofar as we want top of the line quality for dirt cheap prices. It is impossible and undesirable to ever come to a firm conclusion about how much such things "should cost" and all designations of "too expensive" or "wow that's cheap" are relative to income, competing prices, etc etc etc. I see little point in such discussions. The threads in the toys section which are about concrete toys where people voice concrete concerns arethe ones tha Yamato should be paying attention to - if not literally, then at least in general they should pay attention to those types of concerns. In any event - the more people insist that Yamato is greedy, the more they prove their own greed.....so I don't see the point of the exercise. Pete

I will. Lower production run than the Valkyries, ergo higher risk that costs of production (from R&D to mold creation) won't be returned. As much of a niche market as Macross is, I think Patlabor is even MORE of a niche market. Another possibility: Yamato might be spreading the costs in way that are beneficial to their principle consumers. If there is a larger base of Macross buyers, then Yamato might have made the V.2 VF-1S "cheaper" and the Patlabor "more expensive" to offset the "cheaper" valks. Prices are different for different reasons. I wouldn't buy that Patlabor because I'm not a fan, nor does the design do much for me.... but some people might think that a one foot tall Patlabor is the greatest thing ever.. Also - as has already been mentioned - the exchange rate is now much worse for foreign buyers than it was... So maybe the 28,000 Y price tag would have not looked that bad to you two months ago - and does now... I wonder - what do Japanese folks think of the prices on these items? They don't factor in shipping, import duties etc etc etc but just get the item off the shelf. Obviously if "I" were living in Japan I would "think" that I'm in price-heaven - but only in comparisson to now - I wonder how I would feel about the prices after living and working there for a few years? Pete

No. There is no such thing as being "too greedy." Theoretically, there will always be a buyer at every price; and the lower the price, the more buyers there will be, while the higher the price, the fewer buyers there will be - again theoretically until you either reach 0 buyers (price too high - aka seller "too greedy") or infinite buyeres (price = 0, so there is NO COST for anyone, therefore everyone technically could buy it [discounting cost in time/space etc). Naturally the seller will not sell for zero, even though at that price he will have the greatest demand, because he cannot produce for zero and therefore would end his business. The seller will also not sell at the price of Infinity because no one would buy anything for infinite money (aka - I give you this Valkyrie and you fork over an IOU for all your wages till you die, plus your inheretance, plus your children's wages etcetc etc). The end result is that the market price is established somewhere in between these extremes and is always a factor of many variables and ultimately the result of an attempt to garnish marginal gains on both sides (on the part of the consumer and the seller/producer). "Greed" has nothing to do with busienss. It is a moronic (sorry for the harsh term) illusion. People do not sit around in corporate boardrooms rubbing their pot bellies and cackling like maniacs that they are going to "fleece" the consumer. EVEN people who try to get government bail outs (aka try to circumvent the market process) actually behave pretty humble about it. People who decide to be insanely greedy (aka "too greedy") end up loosing customers and loosing business. Most of us accept the fact that Yamato produces the highest quality transforming figures on Earth. Bandai's SOC line is also of high quality; but it is easier to make because the figures are not as complex as Macross. And they are usually not as poseable as what Yamato makes. We also accept that the development and production of molds is expensive; particularly for something so big and with as many moving parts as a Valk. The QC problem is definitely a problem. I would buy 10 VF-1S v.2s and probably many many more of the other fighters QUICKER and without that much hestitation if there were no flaws. With the flaws - I'm always like "noo...if money's really tight, I'm not going to risk getting a dud" So Yamato is probably suffering the QC issue. And I am sure they are aware of it and working on it. But they are also suffering from the problem of a demand for making something as durable as a TF but with the detal and precision that we expect. Lots of stuff for them to do. Final argument: If Yamato were "too greedy" Yamato would say "screw Macross. Screw Macross fans. Screw this minor market niche that we've been pouring out hearts and time and money into to risk making perfect transformation beautiful Valkyrie. Let's go make some cheap slippers, children's toothbrushes, coffee mugs, women's deoderant and nail polish." in other words - they wouldn't waste their time on this high risk crazy venture and instead branch out into something with a more promising long term future. Pete

Gubabab stop being a troll! No one is being ironic here! Don't you get it yet!? ROBOTECH WAS FIRST!!! FIRST CAME THE NOVELS, THEN THE CARTOON AND ONLY LATER DID THE JAPANESE STEEL IT WITH THEIR ANYME! HOW HARD IS IT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!??!!?!?!?!? I'll have you know that it WAS like that! WHY do you think the forum went down for Thanksgiving?! Shawn and Graham were trying to set it up so that Doug Bendo's podcasts would play automatically whenever you opened the forum! You'll see Doug Bendo will soon be the third admin! Yamatoe isn't talking to Graham anymore because Graham promised Doug to switch everything around and make Marcos World into BattleTechLand! So there! (Sorry Graham for letting the secret out - hope you're not angry with me - but I just can't stand how disinformationed Gubababa is and he really has an IQ that is misunderestimated in terms of how low it can go! Sheesh Pete

I getting all of them and probably doubles I want to amass a nice fleet of VF1s As for Fokker - I generally prefer TV series to movie; although that might have something to do with the fact that I haven't actually watched DYRL from beginning to end...yet...will get around to it though Pete