VFTF1

Sharyk: Agreed Sharyk. And I'm not saying that either. I am, however, saying that with more inventions like this and more advances in technology; it's an issue that's going to be very real and in need of discussion pretty soon. Pete

This is like standing over a murder victim's body and saying that legal protection against murder applies to all citizens, and since that guy who just got murdered is dead, then it doesn't apply to him - because he doesn't exist. Yamato USA exists. Yamato sells toys in the USA. Yamato doesn't sell Macross in the USA because Harmony Gold is trying to effectively enforce its sole rights over the brand (aka it's monopoly). If there were no legal problems, then Yamato would be selling Macross in the USA alongside Toynami. In general, from what I understand, the US doesn't so much have anti-monoply laws as anti-trust laws which broadly interpreted have served to thwart monopolies (although at times they've only served to thwart economies of scale which is not very beneficial). Anyways - the anti-trust/anit-monopoly laws do apply to these products since there's an on-going dispute over who can do what with the brand. I fail to see why Americans aren't supposed to be ableto legally purchase a VF-25 or an SV-51 just because HG says you can't buy them outside of Japan based on something they won't show anybody. Pete

I just think it's out of place to accuse me of being frivolous. I mean - this is a Macross forum and a thread about the license debate. Whre else is one supposed to vent opinions on this matter? Of course I agree with Roger that there are more important things; but am I expected to write about war, poverty, unemployment, cancer, AIDS, the plight of the Doo Doo bird, racial discrimination and so forth and so on as a prelude to writing about HG? The contention that it only concerns 25 to 75 people is also completely beside the point (even if you are right about the small number of people it concerns). When something bad happens to some people, it's still something bad and should be written about. Finally - why is it jaw droppingly stupid to consider this issue from the point of view of whether or not copy right laws are therefore flawed and something is wrong with a system that allows this kind of situation to persist without resolution? I don't claim to be 100% right and to know everything - but I do take the time to lay out some kind of argument and attempt to make it logical. Refuting it is one thing, calling it merely stupid is another. In any event - I think I would be blowing things out of proportion if I went on every internet forum I could find and began writing about this - but as I'm confining it to Macrossworld in the relevent thread...again - how is this out of proportion? Finally: of course you have the right to believe this to be a trivial matter. But still - that's what congressmen and petitions and fan organizations are there for - trivial matters. These people are there to make our lives easier - that's how it should be - and we are there to alert them to certain problems. I worked in a State house office for a while and let me assure you - the stuff people call their representatives over are precisely that TRIVIAL. But when you consider it - that's what these guys are there for; that's what the whole process is about - if you don't like something, you can speak up about it and try to change things or get other people aware. Of course you have to be polite, respectful and willing to concede that you're not always right - aka - keep things in proportion. I just fail to see how writing what I wrote in a forum dedicated to Macross and this very subject is...out of proportion? Pete

I find it highly unlikely that we are doomed. If anything, we will simply begin on the path to the next step in evolution. Asimov wrote a very moving short story once - Eyes, I think it was called? - in any event, it was about two people who, in the far future, had become immortal via a process by which humans transfered their brain waves into light beams which traversed the universe throughout infinity. Two such beams met, and one of them said he feels terrible; so the other asks why, to which the first replies: "Because long ago, I thought about something which made me sad, but then, because I have no eyes, I couldn't cry, so I have been carrying this sad thought in me forever and have no way to let it out." Well.... who knows what the future holds? Maybe something like Skynet will destroy us all... But from what I think I know about humans, they would sooner push the button than would a computer system... Truly we are on the verge of a very very different world from the one I was born into. Wow. Pete

I would contend that what HG is doing effectively co-equal with trying to ban Americans from enjoying Japanese Macross, and therefore trying to infringe upon the right to free speech. The actual amendment just says that "Congress shall make no law" which is perfectly in line with what you correctly claim to be the Declaration's stance that rights exist in nature and are not granted, but rather protected. That said - how does a copyright law which leads to a situation like this protect the pre-existing natural right to free speech? If it leads to a situation where a company can muscle retailers to compel them not to sell the competition's products and never has to show any legal basis for doing so - then I contend that the law is not working as it should - it is not protecting the pre-existing rights that it should. In this sense - it is a free speech issue and Americans have a constitutional right to enjoy Macross as the Japanese concieved it if they so wish. No one is saying that Harmony Gold doesn't have the right to promote Robotech and to build on that universe and to even use "their" version of Macross (SDF TV) which was foundational for Robotech. I don't see Yamato or BW prancing around the globe trying to get retailers to stop selling Robotech or fighting battles about it. Instead, Yamato and BW are just competing the old fashion honest way - trying to make better and better Macross anime and better and better Macross products. So - clearly we have a breakdown in the legal system.The law, which should protect our rights, is not doing so. This is why I think Macross fans should write their congressmen and petition their government to look into copyright laws. Globalization and the emergence of the internet have changed the dynamics and the way the world works. Of course rights always stay the same - but how we protect and apply protections to them changes depending on circumstances. It's time copyright laws were changed to reflect existing reality. This doesn't mean making a free for all that does not respect the rights of creators to their work. But it does mean thinking about various new situations which could not arise prior to the internet which now exist and making laws that try to deal fairly with these situations. In Europe - or at least in Poland, this question is also actually somewhat of an issue; although not so much with regard to HG as with regard to Disney. Disney's been running around getting C&D orders against theater artists and children's choirs who dare to think about putting on anything with Winnie the Pooh in it - particularly anything which say, dares to present Winnie The Pooh as AA Milne did rather than as Disney does now. There are groups which are claiming that this is an infringement of the rights to enjoy cultural goods - something which the constitution in Poland guarantees. The idea being that people have the right to educating themselves and to learning about history and that you can't - for example - say that children cannot learn Einstein's theory of relativity in physics without paying a licensing fee to the proprietors of Einstein's estate. Now - in the vast majority of cases - the owners of copyrights are more than happy to let their stuff be used within reason without a fee because it's good publicity for them. For example - I own the copyright to numerous published works which I inherited and which are generally used in schools. I am sure that there are people out there using it "illegally" - but I'm not about to get into a hissy fit over it because if I started to - then most publishing companies that from time to time approach me with contracts would STOP because no body wants to do business with a litigator who throws hissy fits. Large corporations are a bit more stern about these things because the little guys can be lax since they benefit more from PR than while the big guys loose market share - I understand this. Again - I'm not trying to be one sided about this. But I am saying that there is a problem here with this situation and it can't just be brushed aside the way it is now "oh we can't tell you what their license says we can't show it to you but it's there even though no court has ruled on it, oh, maybe one court did" - which one? A local court? A state court? A federal court? An international arbitrage court? In any event - Harmony Gold is only harming itself. By prolonging this fight they are pouring their resources into a legal battle that will only harm the development of their product. All the more since clearly Bandai, BW, Tats and every other Japanese entity involved has attempted to come to a gentlemanly agreement with them. But if they can't agree - then are Americans to sit idely by while corporate in-fighting destroys their chance of enjoying a franchise they like? Pete

Calme down guys There is absolutely no point in getting iritated on a personal level with one another because ultimately NONE OF US knows what the heck he or she is talking about because we don't know exactly how much what costs, how much the demand is, what exact materials are used etc etc etc. We are having this discussion in the ralm of educated guesses and our understanding of economics, business, marketing, and the production process and materials composition used. It's not like we have actual data to infer things from - so really calling eachother names is uncalled for and besides the point. Also - it's not like I expect to "convince" people on the "other side" that I'm "right." So please respect that you have different opinions and agree to disagree. I think Yamato is a very good company that makes great products. They annoy me a little bit whenever I have a QC problem, but that is rarely. They are expensive, but to me - they are worth it. I do't think they're greedy. I've explained in detail why I think so and I enjoy debating the issue and have learned a lot from listening to all of the various opinions and arguments. I think both Eugimon's and Schiz's posts were very informative; particularly Schiz who presents himself as a young person - and is still able to write and think in a very convincing and intelligent manner. But guess what? I still agree with Eugimon anyways and like my Yammies. My point is, it's possible to respect both sides and still be on one of them. So I would ask that you guys please respect eachother and not call eachother names please. The thread is very interesting and it would be stupid to have it locked. So please chill out and keep debating in a civil fashion. Pete

Sure - but if we program them to feel pain, then we do so for the same reasons that humans are "programed" to feel pain: namely, as a defensive mechanism. If you put your hand on a hot stove, your sensors tell you "hot!!" and you instinctively remove your hand so as to prevent further damage. The same with Aiko's sensors. They are there to protect her. And just like it would be wrong to infer, that since humans can sense pain, then we should purposefully inflict it on them, so to, it would not be right to infer this with regards to Aiko. Pete

You know - this thread brings up a question: Don't robot women have the right to an orgasm? Shouldn't they be treated with respect? Shouldn't their feelings on the issue matter? If Aiko has sensors - then the can sense pain and discomfort just as much as she can sense pleasure. So, just as we try to avoid pain and discomfort in life, and just as it is wrong and illegal to inflict pain and discomfort on others (although of course sometimes accident or fate does that anyways) - wouldn't it be wrong to inflict on Aiko? Of course, women don't have a legal right to an orgasm - so neither should Aiko - but in terms of social conventions and what we expect of one another - at this point we are still speaking about Aiko as a thing. Heck - I'm sure we treat of Yamato Valkyrie with greater care and respect then we would treat Aiko - yet those do not even have sensors. So... It is only a matter of time before the issue of the rights of Robots comes up. Pete

I'll try to comment on everything that's been said: Re: Bringing your own mustard to Wendy's (Roger's comment): I think that if I brought my own Mustard to Wendy's, and told them at the cash register to please make my Burger without mustard because I use my own for health/nutritional reasons they would say "sure- no problem." If on the other hand they said "sorry, but we can't do that for you" then I would either say "ok, no problem" or - if I really had a health reason or taste reason or felt strongly enough about it - I'd say "well then thank you and have a nice day" and go somewhere where they'd be more accomodating. Wendy's owns their restaurants. Wendy's has the right to make the decision whether to allow me to use my own Mustard or not. If they don't let me - I have the free choice to go elsewhere to other burger joints. Where is the comparisson to what Harmony Gold is doing? Harmony Gold is acting as though it has the property rights to the patent of "hamburger" and it's going to dictate to consumers (by threatening retailers) which burgers they can and can't buy. Good for Joel. And bad for BBTS's Joel for not doing the same thing. On this note - so other than what we've heard and what's been implied from C&D letters to some retailers - nobody has actually studied the case itself? Guys - if it was so clear cut then Harmony Gold would back up its' C&D letters with legal execution. There are legal means for them to pursue short of expensive lawsuits against retailers and importers if in fact the ruling is so blatantly in their favor on the issue. That they haven't means that there's something fishy about the ruling and it's not at all as clear cut as all that. That HG prefer to resort to blackmail (stop buying Yammies or we won't give you Toynami) doesn't surrise me. That's it's working also doesn't surprise me. Independent of how well Yamato sells vs how well Toynami sells, Toynami's wholesale costs are radically lower than those of Yamato because Toynami already has the products in the USA and even the stuff that is imported is done so through Toynami and the retailer doesn't have to worry about it. The profits from Yamato products - contrary to what some people might think - are miniscule for everybody on the producer-retailer chain and I wouldn't be surprised if Toynami was simply more profitable in the long run. I also - again - wouldn't be surprised if BBTS just wanted to avoid legal trouble - or potential trouble - particularlyi n the midst of a depression. Ok - I understand that. Be that as it may - I still contend that Toynami is violating consumer protection laws and engaging in racketeering. If a small retailer asks them to back up their claim and they just stay silent - then what does that tell us? Also - I know some people think I'm being extreme - but the Fair Use doctrine is also a legitamite point of concern here. And no - it's not "conspiracy theory" to think that Harmony Gold would like to return to 1982 and pretend that the Japanese Macross never happened - it's evident in their sales policy. They would like to pretend that they are responsible for the best Macross stories, the best Macross toys and the best Macross everything. I'm also cancelling all my pre-orders from BBTS, though there weren't that many of them to begin with (just the Henkei Thurst/Dirge set and their 1/24 Patlabor from...you guessed it...Yamato), but prior to opening my own shop, I was a huge BBTS customer for the past 10 years and I'm just not going to be anymore. BBTS are a large enough store that they could afford to take a bit more of a principled stand on this issue and at least ask Harmony Gold to back up their claim. When a retailer's lawyer asks a company's lawyers for the legal basis for a C&D this is a gentlemanly thing. It costs nothing. Laywers can read. The company lawyer could have said - hey - look - here's our basis A, B and C. The retailer's lawyer would look at it - and if indeed he judged that these were firm, strong basis he would tell his client "sorry Joel the Retailer Dude - but we have no case here." That didn't happen - because Harmony Gold probably doesn't have much of a case. Besides - like someone else pointed out - what store allows itself to be bullied like that? If somebody tried to hassel me about what products I can and can't sell without showing me a very VERY firm legal basis - I wouldn't stand for it because it's my business and I decide what to sell and what not to within the confines of law. I grant that maybe BBTS did take a stand and did ask for a firm basis - and they don't really want to say that or get into details. It's their right. I don't hold a grudge against them for making the choice they made - I just would have made a different one. In any event - I repeat: Americans have a right - a constitutional first amendment right - to enjoy the Japanese version of Macross and all of its' derivatives. One flimsy court case does not negate this right, and if a company is going around the USA blackmailing and threatening retailers to whipe out their competition - then this is not right, this is not a business practice that can be condoned. Again: Harmony Gold should compete on the quality of its' product and the quality of its' version of Macross/Robotech. Not by resorting to threats and blackmail. Add to that another thing: if HG does not have the international rights to anything derivative of the original SDF TV series then a simple question: All of Yamato's VF-1 Valkyrie are based on the designs from DYRL, not from SDF TV. So? Why does Harmony Gold think it has the right to limit products based on DYRL? What? because they look pretty much the same? So what? In any event - for people who complain about Yamato's prices and quality (and nobody is forcing you to buy Yamato), folks seem to be pretty passive and docile when Toynami suddenly takes away your choices as a consumer. Consumers have rights too. The basic one is the right to choose between different products by various producers. I won't even get into the ethical conundrum of HG claiming to have the right to something which they didn't create, didn't think up, didn't animate and only helped butcher. Pete

If Toynami and HG put Macross Frontier out in the USA it'll probably be just as chopped up and twisted as what they did to SDFM TV. I think some people are missing the source of the anger. Macross as it stands in Japan - as it is in the originals - is a completely different, and in the opinion of many of us, much better show, story and universe. Why should Americans not be allowed the benefit of choosing for themselves which universe/franchise they prefer? That a court said something doesn't make it right - I think it's not right to take away consumers' choices. Why doesn't HG/Toynai compete on the strength of their products and the quality of their animated stories? It will also backfire on HG - this isn't 1982. HG is trying to create a situation where it's 1982 again and nobody knows anything about the real Macross and will just blindly swallow HG's interpretation. As for Roger's accusation of hypocracy.... Am I a hypocrite when I buy a Wendy's burger on Thursday, saying it's the best thing in the world, but on Friday go to Macdonalds and enjoy their burgers? And what if Macdonalds suddenly said - hey- we're going to sue Wendys, Burgerking and anybody else that makes hamburgers because that's our creation? I just don't understand this situation. Americans have theright to be interested in Japanese Macross stories and merchandise, and they have the right to purchase it. I would be interested in reading the court decision and learning more about the case because it just seems crazy that HG would be given these rights - it sounds more like a case of a foreign, Japanese based company having little to no recourse in American jurisprudence when up against an American company - and nothing more. Pete

Which means Macross Frontier is not welcome in America either. GREAT JOB Harmony Gold! Way to go... This is a horrible situation. I hope that with Bandai as the new sponsor for Macross Frontier, that they will fight to put Macross Frontier on toonami and bring Macross items to America. This is just ridiculous. You guys should write mass emails to BBTS not to allow itself to be strong armed like this... although - I guess they made the decision for one of two (or both) reasons: a) because perhaps Yamato Macross was not as big a seller and certainly not as profitable as Toynami b) because they were afraid of incurring legal liability (no company wants a lawsuit and the last thing a retailer needs in this economy is a lawsuit) Still - this is why it is really in the hands of Macross fans in the USA. Go to it guys! You have every right to celebrate Macross as it was originally concieved. It's a constituional right - it's a first amendment right - people can't tell you that you can't talk about and celebrate Macross as it was originally concieved. They can't. You know what - the court is just wrong here because we are dealing with two distinct properties. Macross as concieved of originally in Japan and all of its' derivates (the Japanese Macross universe) and Macross as part of an American mish-mash created in the 80s called Robotech and continued today. Two completely seperate universes. Giving Harmony Gold these rights is like giving the Chinese bootleggers who make those fake G1 molds the rights to Transformers. It's ridiculous. I mean? What? Are you supposed to just not know about Macross? Erase it from your mind? Forget about it? I'm not personally affected since I don't live in the USA, but I'd be livid if I still did. I'd definitely try to get a petition going or write some letters to congressmen and to retailers and to anybody who would listen. Harmony Gold does not have the right to dictate how you enjoy anime. When somebody asks you about your SV-51 or your YF-19 are you supposed to say "These are illegal Robotech bootlegs" and then throw them away? Does this mean that in future, any amazing cool stuff that you think is worthy of your attention but happens to come from Japan and be done by Kawamorii under the Macross banner is supposed to be off limits to you? Somebody - as in a consumer - should sue Harmony Gold for restricting consumer choice and hobbling the market. Grumble Pete

Not to totally derail the thread - but who has the authority or jurisdiction to grant HG "international" rights outside of Japan? I understand US courts granting these rights within the United States, but what if someone in a third country wanted to promote the specifically Japanese part of Macross, which of course includes things from SDFM TV? Is the whole world expected to put on blinders and pretend that Macross doesn't exist because some court in theUS ruled it? I know that there are international treatises which govern copyright law - however to my knowledge, each country or multi-country legal entity prefers to judge such matters within its' own specific legal system. Barring that, there is also something called the international Arbitrage court which is an extra-legal institution, a gentleman's agreement of sorts where big companies agree to go to iron out such cases which is a much less threatening and more businesslike way of doing things. If HG went through this second route, then I could see how they could claim international distribution rights - but if it's just a US court which says so...then I don't see it. And last point/question: There is such a thing in law - at least in Europe - as a cultural good which is the common property of all people. For example - if I want to put on a play about Biblical figures, I don't need to buy a license from the Vatican to do so. If I want to make a garage kit of a World War II B-52 bomber, I don't need to call Lockheed Martin and get their permission. If I want to put on a musical interpretation of Winnie The Pooh, I don't need to consult the script with Disney. If I want to write a theatrical interpreation of Hamlet and then have it performed, I don't need to find the heirs of Shakespeare's estate to put on my personal interpretation of his play. etc. I do understand that this view has its' limits - but copyright law is actually not as cut and dry as it sometimes seems (and I'm speaking as someone who owns the copyright to a bunch of published works - ergo who has a seemingly vested interest in a more conservative interpretation of copyright than the one I presented above) - yet even I recognize that in this world, once you mass market and mass produce something - of course you CAN claim copyright infringement whenever someone starts using the thing in a way that you don't like - but there is also the issue of other people's rights to enjoy the thing that you have put out there for them - that has gotten into their consciousness. Are we criminals for liking Macross? Should everything fly the Robotech banner? Do we all have to move to Japan because we prefer the original Macross? I think that if HG were smart, they would focus on expanding their property and doing something creative with Robotech. Yamato could have whined and complained and said "boo hoo we won't make any Macross figures because we can't sell them outside of Japan and that limits our market and it's too risky and yaddee yaddee yadee da" - but instead they just went ahead and did it. Meanwhile all HG seems to have done is litigate and try to secure their market not through the quality of their product, but using the law. They might be within their rights, but they aren't doing what's right - in my opinion. If anything, this is just a good example of why people need to sit down and re-think copyright laws and reconsider them because we live in a global society (sorry to be so cliche). This isn't 1982. It's not like only 4 people and their Japanese cousin are going to know about Macross while everyone else will just eat up Robotech even if it' s garbage, and it's not like you can litigate away people's right to watch youtube, to borrow films, to hold open discussions and to trade information about art works (I think Yammies are art). So - from a practical business level I think this is bad business for HG (proven by the dismal performance of Robotech over the years), and also, in theory - it doesn't hold water. And it's truly greedy - unlike what Yamato does.

My hopes are always up They don't need no gettin' Either way, this thing is not going to make it to me for Christmas that's for sure Pete

So it's confirmed for the last day of December? Pete

I still don't understand the legal basis of this contention? From what I understand, courts in the USA have claimed that HG holds the license for merchandise for the original Macross in the USA, while courts in Japan have claimed otherwise for Japan. Has there also been an international arbitrage settlement or case whereby HG was given these rights? That's really the problem, as I see it, because there are people in America who would love to see all that merchandise being sold under the...Macross name. And people who would love to see figures packaged and called Ichijo Hikaru and Kakizake rather than Rick and Ben. I know that initially, this might sound silly - but why should collectors who simply prefer the original Japanese Macross not be allowed to make that choice for themselves? No one is saying that Toynami/HG/Robotech should be banished from the Earth. All I'm saying is that it would be fair, since these are essentially two seperate franchises and two completely separate universes - if people were free to choose which one they prefer. In business NO BODY likes taking the "legal route." It's just bad business. It costs a lot. It leaves a very ugly stain on a company - you get a reputation for being litiguous rather than amiable to developing business solutions. Yet HG still insists on litigation over negotiation. Finally - what would it look like to have Yamato products brought to the USA under the banner of "Robotech?" If I were still living in America - I WOULDN'T BUY THEM. Why? Because I like Macross. Because I want my Macross box to say DYRL Macross on it. Because I want it to say Ichijo Hikaru and not Rick Hunter - because I am a Macross fan. Why can't Macross fans in America be free to enjoy the original Macross and its' merchandise? Transformers fans can purchase Takara Masterpiece Starscream rather than Hasbro's recolor. They can purchase MP-01 or 04 Convoy instead of Hasbro's 25th anniversary. Why can't Macross fans also be free to choose? I think it's just really unfair to be bashing Yamato for being "greedy" when a company like HG and Toynami don't even give you the dignity of being able to make a choice for yourself and simply try to stick Robotech products in your face and basicaly tell you: "Either you repeat after me: Rick Hunter, Rick Hunter, Rick Hunter - or you have to move to Japan." - which is basically what HG is saying - now THAT is greedy. Yamato is not greedy. Pete

But there's a big difference between making a product and then "greedily" charging a high price versus making a product and then telling retailers and consumers that if they don't buy EXCLUSSIVELY your product, then they will get in legal trouble, particularly if your "rights" to this product are based on fairly flimsy legal claims. I'm just saying that Yamato doesn't force people to buy their products, whereas Toynami clearly is not even going to let you have a choice. So Yamato could improve a million times over and it apparently won't make a difference. Besides - please note that if it were legal in the USA to sell Macross Yamato valkyrie then the price would be lower. If Yamato could establish legal distribution centers in the USA, then its' products would be cheaper because the cost of transportation would be spread out over an enormous amount of goods which Yamato itself would just ship to the USA without having smaller retailers compelled to do it, or even individual customers. So really - Americans should be blaming HG for the high price of Yamato, because HG is not even allowing Yamato to get a foothold to just COMPETE in America. Finally - please note that Yamato DOES make superior products. Just because a few of them have QC problems can't possibly be the basis for suggesting that the entire range of their products for Macross are inferior. Just take any valkyrie without QC problems and compare it to what Toynami put out for obscene prices as "Masterpiece Robotech." It's absurd to suggest that a fully good condition 1/48 or 1/60 fighter from Yamato is in any way inferior to Toynami's stuff - this is not even a matter of 'preference' or 'subjectivity.' After all - look - I understand that you can't compare the Bandai Chunky Munkys to the Yammies - the Chunkys are old models from decades past that are still around because people have sentimental attachments to them. It's therefore of course pointless to say "boy that Bandai VF-1S is terrible compared to Yammies" - since you just can't make the comparisson. Bandai wasn't able to make it more accurate back then, and it's selling the old one because people want the old one. But Toynami makes something that they claim is a Masterpiece. It's called the blasted Masterpiece Robotech series. These things retail for between 75 and 150 USD. Have you ever compared them side by side? I have. I owned Toynamis Masterpiece VF-1S and compared it to my Yamato VF-1J 1/48 stealth VERY carefully. Toynami's "Masterpiece" (which costs pretty much as much as a Yamato v.2 1/60): 1) Has ugly swing bars 2) Has hands that just stick out of the back in fighter mode rather than being covered by panels with vents 3) Is missing most of the pannel lines and details of the Yamato 4) Doesn't come with super and strike parts and in fact Toynami NEVER even issued any of them for their "Masterpieces" 5) Doesn't have poseability at the waste like a Yamato 6) In fact has far less poseability in the legs and arms than a Yamato 7) The "chest" sticks up over the cockpit in fighter mode. There are sooo many things wrong with it. This would be fine if this was just Toynami's line of old VF-1S "Veritechs" - it would not be a problem if Toynami was just trying to make some knock off figures to capitalize on the line, or if, like Bandai with Macross 7, they aimed to market them to little kids who would be like "wow! that's cool!" and really wouldn't care THAT much for the details. But Toynami called them "Masterpiece" - suggesting that these are somehow top of the line. They were aimed at collectors. They were meant to embody the very best in that particular design. And they failed - not just a little, not because of shoddy QC causing 1 out of 10 fighters to havea flaw - no - they failed in the stage of conception. They were shoddy and rushed and more work was put into a beautiful box for a really lousy figure. And now they'll be forcing that figure down consumers' throats. That's greedy - that's not productive greedy, that's just bad greedy. In fact - this situatiion and polls like this just make me feel like Yamato should raise their prices to spite some people. I seriously think that Yamato is a good thing for fans. Yeah - it's expensive - but not as exclussive as Studio Half Eye and - as Graham's gallery of the old 1/72 vs the SHE version of the YF-21 shows - even surpassing SHE in many respects) - Yamato is trying, as far as I can see to make perfect beautiful figures and mass produce them in affordable prices for a niche market. They are trying to do something which SHOULDN'T WORK and they are making it work. That's cool. We are getting better and better Valkyrie as the years go by and the real value/price is not going up in terms of how much that money could purchase today vs. say - how much it could purchase when the 1/72s came out. Pete

Oh pish posh. I found Eugimon and Schizophrenic MC's little debate to be very interesting and enlightening. Nothing wrong with some good old fashioned back and forth, and both of them were not being mean or anything but giving very well reasoned arguments. Be that as it may - I would like to change my opinion on one matter that I wrote about earlier: namely, I wrote that it is not possible to really lambast "greed" because people greedily wanting money encourages them to try their best to satisfy the needs of others in order to get that money. In light of Toynami's recently basically black mailing BBTS to stop selling Yamato products (not that it effect me personally as I don't live in the USA) is an instant where greed prompts someone to muscle out competition and muscle in their sub par way over priced product. In light of this - whatever you might think of Yamato and the price of its' products - I think you'll agree that you should be free to choose whether to buy or not to buy from them. Toynami and HG are the real greedy ones here - their greed is so overwhelming that rather than focus on making a good product, they simply focus on using litigation to push their product to the detriment of others - that is a type of greed that does not serve anybody, particularly you as consumers. And Yamato isn't engaged in that type of greed - to their credit. Pete

RE: BBTS not allowed to import Macross items (http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=28505&st=0entry691700) This does not surprise me. Thankfully, I don't live in America any more, where you guys seem to have more and more bad news every day... Anyways - this is not going to make Macross any cheaper for Americans, and it is terrible IMO. Toynami "owning" the rights to Macross is just utterly ridiculouos IMO, and them being able to essentially FORCE retailers to sell their products and ban Yamato is so un-American that it boggles the mind. But there you have it. I'd be enraged if I were living in America. As I don't live in the USA, I merely feel your pain and empathize. You guys have to start a petition drive, write your congressmen, do something - because this is just not right. I can remotely understand how Toynami/HG can claim to "own" Macross in the sense of the original 36 episodes - aka "Robotech"... But am I to understand that because Toynami "owns" Macross - then Americans can't get SV-51s? Or YF-19s? This is retarded and somebody has to stop these people. And what about Bandai USA? Will this mean no Macross: Frontier? In my view - THIS is GREEDY. It is not competing in the open and free market and trying to make the best product you an and hoping people will buy it. It's black mailing retailers during an economic downturn and essentially shoving your piss poor product down Americans' throats. I'd be flaming mad if I still lived in the USA. Pete

Wow that's nifty! It actually now reminds me of a Patlabor when you do that! One could concieve of the Destroid Defender actually being able to also be a Destroid Construction vehicle, Destroid Crane, Destroid Drill, Destroid - you name it! I mean - basically it's a pilot's cabin on legs that you can attach things to Pete

That mecha looks cool. I must look into it at some point, But my list of "must get" is just growing longer and longer ... I'm only now getting around to HOPEFULLY getting Groxier X (anime version) ... Pete

Maybe he's what Agent One might call a "Victim of Macross 7" ? In all seriousness though - I think his achievement is amazing and it is just so cool to have this article where in one proverbial breathe they mention Macross as an inspiration for a truly outstanding project. Also - have you guys seen the movie Cherry 2000 ? With Mellanie Griffith? If not - check it out. It's a B movie, really bad acting - but the entire plot revolves around how female androids like the one this guy made are all the rage - but one guy's woman short circuits while they're making out (due to her not having turned off the kitchet sink or something and the water jams up her circuits). And when he goes to try to find a new one, he doesn'tl like any of the models - while his Cherry 2000 is out of production/discontinued... so he goes on a quest to find one. Don't ask why he couldn't have just gone online The answer is: because then there would be no adventure and he wouldn't meet Mellanie Griffith who convinces him that real women are better than android women. Pete

Question for all those who have gotten their 1/60 Destroids: How is the poseability and how are the features? I ask as someone who has owned a 1/60 Milia Quid Rau for a long time, and while I think the sculpt is great, I find the poseability to be rather atroctious for such a large figure; and the "fixed posed" Milia to be really depressing. They could have at least made a fully poseable Milia (like the girls for Bubblegum crisis) and while I recognize that the Quid Rau isn't that poseable to begin with - I just feel that more could have been done in terms of features. I wonder whether the 1/60 Destroids are also rather "basic" and simple? Pete

Also - not directly toy related - but have you managed to watch Macross: Frontier? Go do so And read some of the threads here about the new 1/60 v.2 VF-1 - I recommend it over the 1/48 Pete

I remember him - and I also remember trying to get into it when I was younger - but it was waaaaay over my head. I do think I should get into it - so much still to do in life.... I first "met" Cerebus in the TMNT crossover with him (Eastman and Laird TMNT of course) ... I could never make out what Cerebus was about - and regret not checking it out more thoroughly. Pete

Uh - actually it pays to care if she has an orgasm Pete