Keith

Me? No, I'll never fully support ADV. Not after their overlays phase, not to mention the newly completely screwed up Sailor Moon box sets. But at the same time, good work is good work, and Mospeada is a knockout job. The Logo's are intact, only the Japanese credits have been replaced. As for the Megazone 23 bootleg set, I have that version too, but the terrible subtitles, and watermarks bug me to no end.

Considering Macross Zero is a big budget brand new OVA, there's no chance in hell we'd get it all in a bundle. A 2-3 episode release if we're lucky, otherwise it would be a 5 volume release. They have to recoup licensing costs afterall. And yes, this does indeed mean HG can't touch jack past the original TV series. They own none of the designs (including the U.N. Spacy insignia), have no claim to any of the other show's/movies, and can't touch any future Toy releases, irregardless of whether they're based on the original series or not. This is most likely the reason that Tokyopop had to drop their M7 Trash announcement. I have a strong feeling they licensed it through HG & the French company that was releasing it, thinking they could do a backended deal. All we need now is for Bandai to stand up straight & tall, and release Macross Zero!!!

Got any pic's of the covers? Which reminds me, it was very curtious of ADV to put ADV on 5 disc's, so that my R2 volume 6 doesn't look silly next to it

I can live with that. Most importantly, it means HG can't go around trying to claim rights to anything after the TV series (which is what we want). Hopefully Big West will take this to head with HG, bitch slap them down, and maybe, just maybe, we'll see a 2-3 episode volume release of Macross Zero by the time the 5th episode comes out in Japan.

In the light of Manga's complete & total downfall, ADV isn't "that bad" anymore. Sure, they royally screwed up the Sailor Moon release, but the Mospeada set is actually a great release. The only downside is that (as usual) they replacied the Japanese intro credits with english ones. Other than that, it's a fantastic set. Hell, they've even finally taken a nod from AnimEigo by having seperate lyric subtitles in a seperate color. I think I even saw 3 seperate lines (1 lyric, and 2 seperate character lines) on screen at the same time, all in different colors. A huge improvement from them. Besides, you'll "have" to get Megazone 23 when it comes out finally Not to mention Mazinkaiser. Considering they're even going to release the DC episodes of Evangelion, and have stopped those evil overlays, even I'm having trouble hating ADV anymore.

Picture & sound are actually great on the set. No, it doesn't come with Love Live Alive, but I'd reccomend picking up the ADV set for the remastered episodes & proper subtitle translations, and the HK set for LLA.

With the revealations of all the evidence and the seeming lack of anyone before 1994 stating DYRL's status I will agree with this. Technically we are both right and in a sense we always were in this debate. The void of classification from the creators allows both "it was not a movie within a movie before 1994 because no one specifically said it was" and the "it is a movie within a movie before 1994 because no one specifically said it wasn't" to be sort of true no matter what their intentions where. I am willing to put this debate to rest with the mutual agreement that neither of us really knows what was intended between 1984 and 1994 and the odds of us finding it are slim without tracking down Kawamori himself and sitting on him til he answers. In light of these facts presented I think this "gap" allows us both to be "right", meaning end of argument for now until more information from the time frame before 1994 can be found. I'm still getting those liner notes translated and will post them, maybee in a new thread as I'm still interested in what they say. Agreed. 1.My agreements or arguments? My arguments are very logical based on the current state of the continuity, the structure of the film itself, and the fact that the film has never been called anything otherwise. 2.???? I've never been rude, not unless you posted as a robotech fan at AFM. 3.And yet there's a certain amount of etiquette to follow when participating in a debate. Unless you're running for California governor, always stick with the topic ahead of petty personal attacks. 4.You shouldn't need anyone to tell you when you're going too far. Chances are, if you think you are, you are. That mess has more to do with the producers of Macross II than anything. Kawamori shluffing it off into AU rectifies that matter.

With the revealations of all the evidence and the seeming lack of anyone before 1994 stating DYRL's status I will agree with this. Technically we are both right and in a sense we always were in this debate. The void of classification from the creators allows both "it was not a movie within a movie before 1994 because no one specifically said it was" and the "it is a movie within a movie before 1994 because no one specifically said it wasn't" to be sort of true no matter what their intentions where. I am willing to put this debate to rest with the mutual agreement that neither of us really knows what was intended between 1984 and 1994 and the odds of us finding it are slim without tracking down Kawamori himself and sitting on him til he answers. In light of these facts presented I think this "gap" allows us both to be "right", meaning end of argument for now until more information from the time frame before 1994 can be found. I'm still getting those liner notes translated and will post them, maybee in a new thread as I'm still interested in what they say. That mess has more to do with the Macross II production team. I believe Kawamori's shluffing it off into AU sufficiently closes that topic. Agreed. 1.My agreements or arguments? My arguments are very logical based on the current state of the continuity, the structure of the film itself, and the fact that the film has never been called anything otherwise. 2.???? I've never been rude, not unless you posted as a robotech fan at AFM. 3.And yet there's a certain amount of etiquette to follow when participating in a debate. Unless you're running for California governor, always stick with the topic ahead of petty personal attacks. 4.You shouldn't need anyone to tell you when you're going too far. Chances are, if you think you are, you are.

Hmm, looks like it probably says Tatsunoko still has copyright on the TV series, & Nue owns the copyright on the characters & concepts. i.e. the usual outcome. "Hopefully" this part: "the decision which we assume that sew there is on a side, has decided, reversion of copyright divided with the character which had become the animation work and the foundation." means that Tatsunoko has to split the copyright with Nue?

Which is it? I like how you pretend to be reasonable with the first quote, then backtrack and reassert your belief that it's in fact been a docu-drama since '84. I'm reasonable all around. As I said, if you want to believe otherwise, go right on ahead. But Studio support for it now, as well as the nature of the movie's design perfectly support that it could just as easily always have been intended to be a movie within the continutiy. There was never a statement in either direction until 94. But "I feel" the fact that they do acknowledge it as a movie within justifies its existence as always haveing been so. If the effort wasn't put in to make it a good story, it wouldn't make money either. Financial backing does play a major role in production, but without the quality put into the production, it won't go very far, let alone 20 years in popularity. By the same token, merchandising from such a popular series woudln't be there if there wasn't a demand for it either. And "agentone," just what the frakk is the stick up your ass about anyway? Irregardless of the dissagreement, I haven't thrown slander at anyone else, and I don't appreciate it going my way either. You can dissagree with someone without being a complete & total a-hole, try it sometime.

Indeed. But considering you yourself are currently at a forum which is centered around discussing said TV show, you too have to admit it's worth discussion.

And since when is paying attention to the actual animated material released "irrelivent facts." Did I mention "bite my shiny metal ass" ? Because I'm pretty sure I did. In the name of ending this inaneness, I'll concede that there is indeed enough open-endedness in it's inception for DYRL to have "not" been originally intended as a movie within the continuity, as long as it's acknowledged that there's just as much for it to have been. Before it's time, the only other major series to have a movie version that didn't consist primarily of re-used footage was GE:999, that definatealy being a straight alternate telling. The structure of DYRL is so that all events prior the first scene, and after the last scene, require foreknowledge of the series events to fully understand. In that, it is intentionally designed as a re-dramatization, just as any other big budget historical docu-drama. My long since burried point in bringing up Flash Back 2012 was to prove that despite the flasher version of events in DYRL, by 1987 Studio Nue clearly decided that the TV series version of events was the dominant version of events, though they weren't abandoning DYRL either. This in itself is evidence to provide support for the later claim that they decided DYRL is a movie within the series. And again, is it required for them to write it on a box inorder for it be so? No. Just as it's not necessary for them to assume we all realize major animation mistakes, such as the nose lasers, are just that, animnation mistakes. And yes, the official DYRL of the Macross continuity does have additional scenes, but at the same time, it is the same movie. As for the Seed comment, you'd be much better bringing up the whole Turn A thing, with the implied all connecting AU to UC thing. That in itself being a much bigger mess than any of this. Rather I'd say Seed while being a re-interpretation of the OYW story isn't a literal retelling. That would fall to the Gundam Movie Trilogy. And I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for those who boil everything down to marketting. It's the big companies that supply the budget for productions in the name of making money, but it's the creative staff who do it for their art. Don't confuse the two. You can accuse me of lack of facts all you like, but that doesn't change that DYRL "is" a movie within the continuity, is structured in a way that it easily fits this description, has never been called anything "but" a movie within the continuty, irregardless of being labelless for 10 years. No facts have been supplied which identify it as anything else, the creative scre behind it support their stance. You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't change what it is. Lastly, onto the Star Wars thing. Lucas not only went back & introduced new concept's into the prequel's (why didn't R2 & C3P0 remember Ben Kanobi???), but also re-write the original trilogy as well. And while he has the full right to do this, it flies far far higher than anything Kawamori has done with Macross.

Excuse me now, exactly "WHAT" hard facts has anyone else found? Untranslated material? "Bite my shiny metal ass."

Again, I don't need a statement form 84 about DYRL, as everyone know's damn well none exists. Considering there was "no" statement prior, the statement from 94 is retroactive as a viable explanation in Nue's purpose for the movie. They created it, they can wait 10 years to spell it out it if they want to, there was nothing contradictiary prior to the 94 clarification as to the status of the movie, as such, it stands as absolute truth! Hell, it took just until 7 to spell out major portions of the Protoculture's background, does that mean those aspects were never intended? No. Does it mean they altered the continuity? No. All it means is that they fleshed it out. Kawamori has intentionally used open-ended endings with each and every series, movie, & OVA. Why? Because he doesn't want to write himself into a situation where an idiotic debate such as this would have merit. As it stands, I don't mind anybody trying to prove me wrong, but everyone is hard pressed in this situation. Even more, everyone seem's to be taking a slightly perverse pleasure in it. Even that wouldn't be so bad if you guys had any meritable ground to stand on. But in an argument were you're saying you're right because there was no statement that the movie was included in the TV series continutiy when it came out, and the only proof you have is that there was nothing stating that it was, you're going to need some proof stating otherwise. In this very same argument, when I'm arguing that since there never was any statement that it wasn't intended to be part of the continuity, and I have proof (irregardless of whether it's 10 years after release) that it "is" part of the TV series continutiy, that lack of pre-dating proof that it's anything otherwise makes my argument rock solid. Like I said, go ahead, please do translate the liner's & back cover info. Unfortunately there won't be anything there that helps this debate either. I guaruntee Egan Loo has already done so, and translated any relavent info to the compendium.

Hang out until march, Bandai's releasing the box set.

It was an interview in Newtype, and what he said was some things in Macross Zero "may" not strictly adhere to previous continuity, since he's placing good story telling first. Never did he say he was throwing caution to the wind and re-writing everything.

She also did Hoquet in Mospeada, Naoko Akagi in Evangelion, Jet's ex-girlfriend in Cowboy Bebop, and many many others.

Keith isn't doing so hot this evening. That ending you speak of does exist on the Animego set. It is at the end of episode 36, I am 90% sure of this. And yet you're 100% wrong! The end of episode 36 is the standard ending animation with the Minmay version of Runner. Ahhhhhhhh. Your right, however I know THAT ending is on the Animego set... Somewhere. It may be hidden. I am going to check it out. Check all you like, it's not there. The only extra's are: -Director's interview seperate commentary track in episode's 35-36 -Egan Loo liner notes -Lithograph for pre-orders -image gallery on disc 8 -promo footage (unremastered) on disc 9 (I think, maybe it was on 8 though). -Color test patter on all disc's.

No, her character. It's an early incarnation of the scene later on in the series where she flip's through Hikaru's photo album. I believe the liner notes said in actuality, it was one of the staff secretaries.

If that were true, we'd still be having to deal with Macross II, as well as the many inbetween 87-94 period PC Engine & assorted games. Kawamori has stuck pretty tightly with continuity, and unlike Lucas, has made succeful efforts to flesh it out greatly. As for the other issues addressed, it still boils down to the fact that it's not necessary for there to have been anything "spelled out" to anyone pre-94. In the end, Nue states it's a movie within the continuity, has never stated anything otherwise, and affirms that stance to this day. And given that they do so, there's no reason for anyone to believe otherwise. The fact that FB 2012 only stands to support their placement of DYRL within the continuity as a movie just makes it all the better. All it boils down to is that some choose to dislike its placement there. And to those people, all that can be said is "tough." BOMBA! Wow Keith, That is a whole-lot-a-nuthin. You keep saying "94'" but that isn't relevant to the discussion. Your arguments are ungrounded and you try say something is something just because they didn't say it was anything else before. Nobody didn't say that the Basara character isn't modeled after Boy George, so that make it fact that he is? You have been beaten. Difference being, DYRL being included in the TV continuity is based in fact, your random gibberish however isn't. And again, the fact that Nue says it's a movie within the continuty is all the evidence necessary to support that it always has been. The counter argument si entirely based on the stance that "I don't like this idea, I'm going to dissagree with it." Now that's a "whole lot of nuthin'" Besides which, everyone know's Basara is based off a cross between John Lennon & Jimi Hendrix. I don't mind debate, but come on, if you're going to try to egg me on, at least be a bit more creative.

Keith isn't doing so hot this evening. That ending you speak of does exist on the Animego set. It is at the end of episode 36, I am 90% sure of this. And yet you're 100% wrong! The end of episode 36 is the standard ending animation with the Minmay version of Runner.

That's no guy, that's Misa!

Nope, nowhere on the AnimEigo set. What I'd actually reccomend doing is picking up the 20th anniversary DVD. Included is the Fanracer ending (though not the alternate intro), and the SD intro. I'd reccomend getting the R2 version, but if you don't have an all region player, the HK is fine.

If that were true, we'd still be having to deal with Macross II, as well as the many inbetween 87-94 period PC Engine & assorted games. Kawamori has stuck pretty tightly with continuity, and unlike Lucas, has made succeful efforts to flesh it out greatly. As for the other issues addressed, it still boils down to the fact that it's not necessary for there to have been anything "spelled out" to anyone pre-94. In the end, Nue states it's a movie within the continuity, has never stated anything otherwise, and affirms that stance to this day. And given that they do so, there's no reason for anyone to believe otherwise. The fact that FB 2012 only stands to support their placement of DYRL within the continuity as a movie just makes it all the better. Kawamori is nowhere even remotely as lax with Macross as Lucas is with SW. All it boils down to is that some choose to dislike its placement there. And to those people, all that can be said is "tough." BOMBA!

Again, you have to realize just how scaled down the TV series version was. Irregardless, in both versions Shinji accepts "Instrumentality/Complementation," it was never the process of joining into the single form existence to begin with, just the means by which people interact with each other (i.e. one being instrumental/complent to another). The direct corrilation would be in the stage setting of the TV series, & the Lilith Egg of the movie. In both, Shinji decides that the community form existence where he can't be hurt isn't worth not being able to experience pleasure/companionship either. And as such, he chooses to return to the way things were. In the movie, the egg splits, and in the series, the stage shatters. Besides which, if Shinji had chosen the single form existence in the TV series ending, then there wouldn't be anyone to congratulate him, as there would only be one liquid existence of nothingness. Again, watch both back to back.