Keith

I'd really disagree here. Seems to me at least that the series showed us Shinji making a very personal choice about "instrumentation," and deciding he does have a place in the world. That humanity continues seems to be the only thing the two have in common... The same exact thing happens in the movie. Go rewatch the scene where Rei specifically ask's Shinji which existence he wants to continue in. Right after everyone is finally gathered up into the Egg, specifically, where she's strattling him.

TV ending & EoE are exactly the same ending. EoE is just done with a bigger budget. And yes, all religious references aren't to be taken literally.

-Fact: No one here has "any" statement, past or present, that DYRL was ever intended to fully stand alone from the continuity. -Fact: we have current support that comfirms it is intended to be included into the continuity as a movie within the series. -Fact: Flash Back 2012 (created in '87) shows us an event (the Megaroad-01 launch) that reflects DYRL being part of the TV continuity. -Fact: The "Perfect Edition" of DYRL released in '92 supports this even further. Now I'm not even going to get into how Plus & 7 drive the point home even harder by their overt inclusion of DYRL & the TV series side by side, these are again the things which are easily available for all to see. I could also go into how the structure of the movie is designed so that it can't really fully stand on its own, and requires pre-existing series knowledge of events before & after those depicted to get a good grounding for what's going on. Instead I'll just say this. Trasnlate the scan's above, trasnlate the movie trailers, and whatever other material may be available. What you won't find is any proof supporting either side. What this amounts to is how much do you trust Kawarmori & Nue. I fully support their stance on this issue, and they've never done anything to make anyone believe that DYRL was intended to be anything but a movie within the continuity. This is where I stand, and what a firm ground it is. You can accuse me of not supplying proof all you like, but when all is said an done, what stronger proof do you need than an official stance by the staff which created it?

Damn, I'm definately thinking hard about picking up one of the HK Seed set's once they come out (a complete set I mean, not just the individual disc's), it's gonna be hard waiting a full year for Bandai to "start" releasing it! BTW, there was apparently some Zeta news at the recent atlanta con held. Over at the AOD boards, it was announced that both Zeta & F91 will hit release in March. Zeta should hit the target between $150-$200.

That was actually the body of Lilith (search previous topics to understand more) being shed away. Basically Lilith was the god that came to Earth, split in two (one half also being named Lilith, the other being named Adam), both sides crashed thier "eggs" into the surface (Lilith's in what would become Tokyo-3, Adam's in Antarctica), and from those eggs spilling the LCL that would evolve into two similar, but distinctly different forms of life. Long story short, Seele wanted to rejoin themselves with the original god form of Lilith (pre-seperation & crashing into the surface) because they believed that it was the more perfect "evolved" form of life, after humans had stagnated in their evolutionary process. So by joining the Lilith side (body on the cross in Terminal Dogma, who's soul was used to create Rei Ayanami. The only clone of which being Eva Unit-01, whom contained the soul of Yui Ikari), with the Adam side (body reduced to an embryo duing Second Impact, Gendo later taking this embryo & embedding it into his hand so that he could become a god by joining with Lilith in his own agenda to be with Yui. The soul being that which was used to create Kaworu Nagisa. The rest of the Eva series being clones of this side as well), they would re-create the original god, and then join back together with it in one sentient liquid existence where there is no individuality. Once this process was started, Lilith (agian the Rei/Kaworu aka Lilith/Adam combination) gathered everyone into the Lilith egg by tearing down their AT fields & reducing them to their basic LCL (body & soul). Once this was done, Lilith too joined in with them into the egg (and as such shed her body which is the scene you're referring to). Now after this, Shnji was given the choice as to whether life would continue in this "single form" existence, or return to the "community form" existence. He decided though no one would be able to hurt each other in the "single form," it was really much of an eistence at all, and so everyone spilled back out of the Lilith egg into the ocean where they would all regain their forms in time, the frist of which we see being Shinji & Asuka. Now mind you this is the "short" version of events

Sure, as soon as all bandwidth limitatins & video compression have advanced to the point where I can post up specific video clips in lavish animation for all to observe, I'll gladly post up proof. Until then, get off your asses & sit in front of your own TV's. When all is said & done, no matter how some try to argue, I stand as being correct!

I have the AC version and it may be a little dark (you can change this on your TV too) but it's not pixely at all. It still looks as good as it does on my TV on my computer. Then you may want to turn up your brightness a bit more. I bought "2" copies (hoping that the second version put out by a diferent studi wouldn't have 15 seconds missing from it), and both were badly encoded (and definately pixely). Of course it all boils down to what's more important to you. A perfect rip in both audio & visual quality with pretty good subtitles & no missing footage (save for the Toho intro), or slightly better subtitles (but worse subtitle timing) and lower video quality with 15 seconds missing from the actual film.

Nope, I don't speak or read Japanese, but as it's 'Macross', I like to own the original. Anyway, I've been watching raw Japanese anime since the mid-1980's, before there was such a thing as fan-subs, digi-subs or bootleg DVDs! Graham Psst, Actually fansubs started in the mid-late 70's

You guys, I freakin' swear. The show's themselves are "the" most solid piece of continuity you can get, assuming you pay attention & understand (not withstadning petty things such as "animation errors," especially since we're not contending with Anime Friend in any production other than the TV series). The animation is where the central story that the writers are telling is located. And the central story in FB 2012 reflects that DYRL was integrated into the mainline continuity, and doesn't exist unto itself. It reflects that the Macross used in it wasn't a simple re-design done for DYRL, but also exists in the TV series continuity as well. Considering that nothing in the "quoted" text has contradicted anything I've said stands more "for" my credibility than anything even resembling an argument against it. You want quotes? You want evidence? You want proof? You have the ability to drag yourself over to the Macross Compendium & read it as I have. You have the ability to sit down in front of the TV and watch all released material, as I have. As I've stated, considering Nue has officially come out & said that DYRL "is" part of the TV series continutiy, not to mention that they've "never" said anything to contradict that, be it when the movie was releaed, or at any other point in time, there is zero basis for any such argument. To put it bluntly, I don't need to waste my time digging up proof to support well known facts that are available to anyone. "YOU" however do need evidence if you're going to try & contradict it. I've been at this longer than most of you guys have been Macross fans, I've argued these & many issues more times than I care to count. If you choose not to believe me, that's one thing, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm stating facts which are well known & available to anyone who cares to pay attention to them.

I bet Tokyopop tried to license through the french company that was releasing it in Europe, made a deal with them, and made a deal for an OK through HG here before starting to distribute it.

As I said, "WATCH THE FREAKIN' THING" The best proof is in the animation itself. The fact that Studio Nue officially backs up the animation affirms it. The proof is in the existence of Flash Back 2012, the existence of Macross 7, etc. I thought we left the days of idiots coming down & arguing against well known facts just because they liked to argue when we moved here from AFM!

The only version you want is the one in the middle by FX. It's a direct R2 DVD rip (best quality of all the HK's, and is anamorhpic widescreen), has the entire film intact (all other versions are missing 15 seconds of footage when Misa & Hikaru are trying to contact the Macross from the Protoculture ship). Some may argue that the subtitles on the FX release aren't as accurate as other bootlegs, but they're still pretty good, plus the video quality is excellent. The other HK's have badly encoded dark & pixely video.

The proof is in the Macross 7 Laser Disc liner notes as translated by Egan Loo, as is the existence of Flash Back 2012 which is available for "all" to see. Bandai was even kind enough to make their official release R1 compatible, and though out of production, there are plenty of Bootlegs about. Considering Egan is officially endored by both Bandai & Big West, it's safe to assume his translations are correct. I've provided my hard facts, all you provided is your dislike for the concept of DYRL being part of the official continuity as being included as a movie within the series. Hell, you don't even understand the difference between DYRL, and the Lin Minmei Story! And your views are none the less shallow. You're the one getting your nuts in a knot, not me. Your decision to maintain ignorance is well & fine, your insults in place of arguments are expected as well, but blame no one but yourself for them. Who was the one saying what was just a cartoon again? Actually, 90% of the Macross continuity is hard fact, just watch the show's & excersize some attention span! It's a compilation of Kawamori & Nue staff information compiled from art books & LD/DVD liner notes.

NO! Snatcher desrves to be an OVA first!! Hell it's already seperated into episodes.

How shallow a view that is. Flash Back 2012 is the final concluding episode to the original Macross story arc. What's more fitting than a montage using Minmay's music? The true story lies in the intro & ending segments. Actually, it's well documented that they "had" already conceived the storyline past the events of the TV series. In early production when it was slated for a 50+ episode run, the story would have went well past the ending that was presented. Being dropped down to 26 episodes killed that, leaving the ending to be the giant battle with the Bodolza fleet around Earth, and then the episode count bump up to 36 episodes wound up leaving things pre-Megaroad launch. Irregardless, it has been stated in interviews that many plot elements from Macross 7 were fleshed out idea's that would have been used in Macross TV's original 50+ episode plotline. Bottom line, you have no evidence stating that DYRL was ever intended "not" to be a movie within the continuity, while I have evidence that Studio Nue has fully affirmed it to be so. The fact that you don't like the concept doesn't mean a thing. Bastardized how? DYRL's placement in the continuity is 15 years before the events in 7. It's even slyly reffered to by Sharon in Plus (4th episode as Myung enters the observation area). If you're referring to the Lin Minmei story (Minmei Video episode of 7), that was an entirely differnet production alltogether. Irregardless, all of Studio Nue had imput in 7, not just Kawamori, and all fully acknowledge, accept, & endorse it. Mayhaps you should "listen to Basara's song." Or at the very least pay enough attention to the series so that you can tell the difference between events & time periods. No wonder you didn't like it, you requrie an attention span to do so. What you do on your own time is your own business.

No, if the Lifestream was going to reclaim everyone, then it would have just let Meteor hit and been done with it. It protected everyone from Meteor, everyone survived, and abandoned materia based technology. THAT was the purpose in seeing the ruins with overgrowth.

Happy Dreamland is a great place. You should try it some time. Yeah, but just trying importing DVD's from there.

Macross was left open ended for a reason. Yes, Studio Nue did say 2012 was the end of Macross, and in many ways that's true. It's the end of the first storyline, which will never be continued. Hikaru, Misa, & Minmay's stories are over. FB 2012 also served as a final word on the TV/Movie issue. There we have the DYRL Macross design shown as the 2012 refit design of the Macross, music video's using footage from both, and the overall story following that of the TV series ending, putting into pictures the words of Hikaru, Misa, & Mnmay in the last episode of Macross. So yes, I firmly believe Nue intended DYRL as a movie within the continuity to begin with. We already have basis for such productions with Shao Pai Loon, and a firm comfirmation with the 1994 continuity affirmations while releasing Macross 7. You have absolutely no basis to argue these facts, just accept them.

Not even Manga is bad enough to make HG look good, though they're officially as bad as Viz now. This info has been known for months, and as it stands, it's a complete rip-off. Most likely it's just a scheme to get rid of their Macross II DVD overstock, as there's no othe viable reason why that should be included in a Macross Plus box set! And seriously, if anyone believes that Manga was going to remaster their craptacular movie edition DVD, you must be living in a magical fantasy dreamworld.

You may want to watch that ending again. The life stream "saved" everybody, that was the whole freakin' point!!!! As for those who think square have lost their touch, might I remind you about the unexpectedly phenominal Kingdom Hearts.

The Saturn actually did great in Japan, it was the U.S. treatment of the Saturn, its abrupt death to shoe in the Dreamcast, and the international flop of the Dreamcast due to Sega dropping the ball one too many times (stopping support of the Sega CD, 32X, & Saturn was just too much).

You guys do realize xenogears is already in the process of being renewed? Mind you Xenosaga part 1 is an early prequel/remake, but the series will continue on through & past the events of Xenogears (again, be it revised or otherwise). Of course I hate the design style change for Xenosaga part 2, what the hell were they thinking? Though now that I see these FFVII-2 designs, they the Xenosaga prt2 ones don't look so bad.

DYRL was officially acknowledged as a movie within the continuity by Studio Nue in 1987 when Flash Back 2012 came out (3 years later, not 10), though there was no official continuity released until 1993-4. Besides which, who are you or anyone else to say what was specifically intended for the film? As for the Zentradi taking offense, why would they? They did kill the almost entire population of Earth, they would have attacked irregardless of whether the Macross fired first or not, and they're actually portrayed a little more innocently in the movie than they were in the TV series.

What are you, some kinda fascist? How could you not want to watch the intro & ending????

Screw that, let's hope someone releases the 2 series unmeshed together, mayhaps in a couple HK DVD box sets once they come out on R2 DVD.