Mr March

I thought the Zentradi did have Reaction Weapons at one time in the distant past, but had since been unable to manufacture them. Hence the "long lost reaction weaponry". So it tracks that even though they may have long since run out of reaction weaponry, they still have mecha capable of mounting and launching them. And since all reaction weaponry is derived from OverTechnology, the reverse-engineered human-made reaction weapons would be very similar. As for paint rounds, I'm certain the Zentradi have plenty of battle simulations as well

COmparing sci-fi shows is really difficult, especially since most have nothing in common. In Macross vs. Star Wars though the Macross fighters get the shaft. SW uses all the lousy "magic tech" cheats in sci-fi, like inertia compensators, shields, yadda, yadda, yadda. It took the UN Spacy 30 years to advance Valkyries to attain orbit from a planet surface launch, something even the lowliest SW fighter does effortlessly in far less time. JBO is right on this one SW cheats In Macross vs. Gundam, I'd give the edge to Macross, though that's no surprise coming from a Macross fan. Seriously though, in any strategic comparison, Macross has all the advantages. Territory, resources, industrial capacity/capabilities, economy scale, etc. Hell, the Feddies and Zeon combined would be outnumbered by the UN Spacy 10 to 1, not to mention the strategic advantage of fold technology. Comparing small units, Macross enjoys superior power generation tech, superior thrust-to-weight ratios, etc. About the only disadvantage Macross suffers is gun pod calibers and we could endlessly speculate about the importance of muzzle velocity in that area. But so what if a Gundam has super armor; that's why the UNS has heavy weapons: VB-6 Konig Monsters, Strike Valkyries, Armored Valkyries, XS-06 high-piercing-round gun pods, VF-17 beam gun adapters, Sniper Gun Pods and speaking of muzzle velocity, Destroid Defenders with 3,300 m/s guns...mwuhahahaha I mean let's face it, super armor sure doesn't seem to be helping the Vajra much, now does it?

WTF is the WTF-1? Sorry, but someone had to post it

Can't wait to get these

Great pic Randalt

I too initially thought that perhaps it was meant to be NUNS all along, but as you say, it just doesn't track. The change of logos, the rise of the SMS, the various internal factions and their agendas; it all points to something new rather than retcon. So far we're really left in the dark and I hope we get some more answers. But even if we don't, I'm willing to let it slide as long as the story of Macross Frontier remains as strong as it has been so far. I didn't think your post was a conscious effort to connect MII to Frontier; I only wanted to add missing facts that NUNS has been around longer than the early 90's, as you suggested. I was also a little worried connections were being made between MII and Frontier at the expense of the more likely, legitimate influences. I think it's only natural some fans attempt to find connections between MII and the Macross franchise. Macross II is often perceived as the ignored bastard child of the franchise and it's obvious some fans resent MII's expulsion from the official chronology, even going so far as to blame Kawamori (who, ironically, appears to have nothing to do with MII). Finding coincidences is a way fans can overcome the official divorcing of MII from the chronology. So in a way, Macross II has become Macross fandom's own personal apophenia, just like Pink Floyd

Be careful. That's a good reference pick, but it's also for the Super variant. I looks like the lower legs/rear engines drop down when the Super parts are installed, much like the original VF-1. But if anyone can do it, joseph can

My post is not an attempt to explain away anything. As I said, most of us are still up in the air as to why the NUNS came about, why all the insignia from the UNS kite to the Zentradi emblem have changed and what if any bearing the events of VF-X2 have played on Macross Frontier. What my post does is label, IMO, what are the more likely explanations for NUNS in Macross II and Frontier.

I don't think they distinguish the two. The Macross Compendium describes both the new United Nations Government and the new UN Forces. So it seems clear all branches of civilian and military organizations were labeled as new post-SWI. I'm not really all that bothered by the ineptitude of the NUNS. I just right it off as the hero syndrome and more genre themes being explored. In many ways the SMS seems like just a convenient plot device; a way to infuse some more intrigue into the story. Besides, internal conflict is a time honored method for creating good drama; it helps create another hurdle for the characters, making the stakes that much higher (something used to great effect in another show I'm currently enjoying called "The Wire").

I really don't want to get into the whole Macross II vs. Everyone else thing, but I will comment on some of your points as I see it. According to the Macross Compendium, the NUNS was an official continuity fact before Macross II was produced. The new United Nations Government is mentioned as forming right after the end of Space War I as a replacement for the now annihilated United Nations Government. The Macross Compendium also makes mention of the New Era Calendar which was to start with the end of Space War I, but seems to now have been abandoned. Some might remember this discussion in the Macross Frontier threads in which many of us struggled to determine whether the NUNS was truly retcon or was supposed to be NUNS in all the sequels ever since post-Space War I. So the NUNS in Macross II appears to have borrowed from the original Macross literature, not the other way around. This only makes sense, since Macross Plus was still two years away when Macross II was released and the franchise only consisted of SWI-era animated productions and the chronology to that point. It also fits in with Kawamori's re-visitation of the original Macross themes in Macross Frontier. In regards to the SMS, I see no Macross II influence at all. The theme in Macross II was complacency via the Minmay Defense and there was no related social commentary. Macross Frontier is very much a science fiction play upon the old west as is the SMS. The name "Frontier" is indicative of the old west itself, the mysterious stranger (Brera Stern, dressed in cowboy boots no less!) that plays the "harmonica" (that instrument itself an obvious homage to Sergio Leone's great western Once Upon A Time In The West), the Macross 25/Frontier appearing as a pioneer fleet of covered wagons (the various Islands), and so forth. Going back to the SMS, they are most definitely inspired by the same "old west" genre themes; they defy convention and are somewhat "beyond the law", presented as the only "real men" that can meet the challenges of the new frontier. This is in stark contrast to the NUNS described as impotent (Ozuma claims they are cowards) that represent a failing law and the social commentary that inherently implies. This is also not the first time Kawamori has infused Macross with old west genre themes. Macross Plus was also filled with numerous such references and themes (the character of Isamu, the dedication to "pioneers", the showdown, etc). Most fans would probably recognize aspects of this influence most potently in Yoko Kanno's old west leitmotifs used in the Macross Plus soundtrack, such as Welcome to Sparefish (themes which Kanno again revisits for the musical score in Macross Frontier). I'd also like to know whether they actually use the NUNS by name for the dialog in Macross II. I'd also like to know from which source came the trivia about the New Unity Government trivia that's been included on the Macross Compendium for ages now. Might explain quite a bit.

It looks amazing. Just like the schematics from the TIAS books. Well done joseph. Very fine work.

*cheers*

It's very likely that's where the idea came from. It wouldn't be the first time Macross borrowed from Gundam. The material known as "space metal" has long been assumed as a reference to luna titanium that Kawamori borrowed to use as the light weight/super strong frame of the Valkyries.

It's almost as if I can see a backhand in there. Nice dream

Fantastic! One of the greatest moments in Macross history!

Interesting, but not unheard of. Gun pods and cockpit noses have been attached to the arms of earlier Valkyries and the Super Packs all have connection points on the legs and arms, so it'd require very hardware to attach the gun pod to a leg.

I agree. I vote we reserve the use of the term "ASS-1" only when referring to MisaForever.

Nah, it's no fun if you're expecting it

VERY NICE! I like the larger resolution version. Thanks for sharing.

That has been one of my major concerns since this whole action figure line was announced. If I'm buying a non-transformable action figure that can't do articulation all that much better than the transformable 1/60 line, what is the point? I think a lot of us have been caught up in the Kaiyodo vs. Yamato comparisons and really forgot to ask ourselves that very fundamental question. I totally understand where you're coming from.

*hugs Graham* I love high-resolution scans

The power sources made available to humans via OverTechnology are much smaller and generate far more power than what is available as power sources in the Gundam universe. The original RX-78-2 Gundam has a single reactor that produces 1,380 kW of power in a 18m tall Mobile Suit, while the original VF-1 Valkyrie has two 650 MW reactors inside a 12.68m tall Battroid, together producing over a gigwatt of power (or 1,300,000 kW). City 7 has a OTEC reactor that produces 700,000,000 kW per hour (roughly equivalent to the power generated by 540 VF-1 Valkyries). With that kind of cheap, highly efficient technology available, relying upon solar power is light years behind the power generation capabilities of the UNG/NUNG.

Ironically enough, that was me that spoke of the disadvantages of a static colony as opposed to a mobile colony I think we're on to something with the mobile government. It does seem like the NUNG is more in situ than any static location or planet-bound office. And like I said, there's really no colony planet that is central or larger than the others. Earth was barely populated by the time the humans/zentradi began cloning and launching massive colony fleets. Eden could even be larger than Earth at this point. Of course, there is always the possibility that we're reading too much into this and the presidency was placed aboard the Macross Frontier simply as a dramatic device to meet the demands of the particular story of Macross Frontier

That Basara image is disturbing on so many levels

I think it's doubtful that the old specialized ships of the 37th fleet are part of the Macross Frontier fleet. None of those ships have appeared yet in the Macross Frontier fleet and there has been ample opportunity to feature them. Sheryl's concerts, Alto's training, Ranka's rising stardom, the Vajra analysis, and so forth. All these activities that could have taken place aboard a Hollywood, a West Point Class or Riviera or Einstein (respectively) have instead happened aboard either Island 1/2/3, which seems to suggest Zincredible's theory is likely accurate.