Valkyire fighting space monster!

[Aurel Tristen]

For info in regards to my previous post:

http://nanashi.macrossmecha.info/resrc/cat/vari/xs06.html

[Graham]

Now I a really stupid question that has been bothering me about the

VF-17's gunpod and operation in normal gravity. We see it shooting out of the leg in space to be caught by the hands, which would seem to be easier in zero gravity. What about atmosphere? Seems it would be much more difficult for some pilots to perform this maneuver successfully in atmosphere. Could the compartment simply be opened to remove the gunpod? Or would it just use the arm lasers? Enquiring minds want to know.

I'd go with the compressed air theory.

Nice to know we have other Vf-17 Nightmare lovers on this board

Graham

[Renato]

While I like the title of this thread "Valkyre Fighting Space Monster", I have thought of a new one (not better, just new).

"Space Hippie"

Essentially that is what that pansy Basar is.

He has the John Lennon glasses, the unkept look, and uses music to "save the day".

Looks like a hippie's wet dream to me.

Ah, it could have been so much better. A grand, epic, space saga, with the Macross 7 fleet fighting for their lives and either wiping out or subduing the enemy in a realistic fashion, through the use of wit. Like a Star Wars type thing, infiltrate the planet Vaurata and find some way to either imprison or kill off the Protodevilns rather than do the whole wimpy way of conflict resolution. You know a grand space battle with Gupernich going KA-BOOM! Not, "Oh wow, like thank you my man Basara, for like, showing us this new trippey Spiritia. I like, haven't been this high in Millenia.", and then leaving to find the Anima Spiritia.

When I stand back and look at the series, it is somewhat like what an illicit drug trip might be like.

As for Gupernich, he looks like a silly, mutant Barney. But hey, its Macross 7. If they were to use H.R. Gigers works as a template rather than the teletubies, it would probably have been too scary for Japanese TV.

For those that do not know who H.R. Giger is, he was the brilliant artist that designed the alien from the movie "Alien" and the creatures from the movie "Species".

First of all, there's nothing wrong with hippies, as long as they wash and are responsible.

As for your "epic space saga" scenario, yes, you are absolutely right, that's exactly what they should have done.

You forgot to add one thing, though, and that's that they should have not called the show "Macross 7", but instead "Super Spectacular Space Battle Show #346" because that's exactly the kind of bog-standard anime it would have been.

Here is what that show would have been like:

--------------------------

UN Spacy: "We did it! We killed all of the Protodeviln! And we did it while you were running around wasting time and singing retarded songs, you stupid hippy."

Basara: "Oh yeah, you're right. I guess I'll load my Valkyrie with missiles instead of Sound Boosters from now on. Feel my bullets!!"

The End.

-----------------------------

But why stop there?? Why not go back to SDF Macross and change that too??

----------------------

Exedore & Britai: "We cannot allow Protoculture to become extinct. We have heard Minmay's song and have chosen to protect SDF-1 Macross"

Global, Hikaru, Minmay, etc. "Die, evil aliens!!!"

Exedore & Britiai explode.

Massacre of Zentradi ensues until only Macross is left standing.

Minmay: "We WON!! I told you WE CAN WIN!!"

The End.

----------------

I've always thought Minmay singing to Bodolza asking if he "remembers love" while he's getting his brains literally blown away was a bit stupid.

Or even Macross II??

----------------------

Hibiki and Sylvie find rows of Zentradi being brainwashed.

Sylvie: Are you gonna shoot them with your camera?

Hibiki: No.... WITH MY FAT-ASS GUN WHICH I HAVE RIGHT HERE, LOOK!! DIE, MOFOS!!!

All Zentradies are killed.

Sylvie: My hero!

Hibiki: Now that we know Ishtar is one of the bad guys really, we gotta kill her too!

Sylvie: Yay! Then we can WIN.

Everything explodes. The End.

-------------------

Lastly, I have plenty of opinions regarding warfare, morality and pacifism, but I am not prepared to express them in a move to get into a half-assed debate on an internet board. I come here to talk about Macross in my free time of which I have little and I am sick of reading crap which gets in the way of my hobbies. I enjoy debates, but there is a time and a place for everything. Also, people should know the rules of a civilised and adult debate instead of the childish things which go on here.

Well, I guess I'm talking to a brick wall here. What the hell do I know? I just come here for fun.

[Renato]

Nice to know we have other Vf-17 Nightmare lovers on this board

I'd like it even more if certain people bothered to make a decent toy of it....

By the way, just a little off-topic, how rare are the TECT customization parts for the old Bandai 1/144 M7 kits these days?

[trueblueeyes]

Does anyone have any pics or links to pics of the IHP VF-17?

Who else would love to see a variable VF-17 from Yamato issued under the VF-X2 license? I can at least dream right?

[Graham]

Does anyone have any pics or links to pics of the IHP VF-17? 

Who else would love to see a variable VF-17 from Yamato issued under the VF-X2 license?    I can at least dream right?

Ahem.....MW main page, links section has a link to the IHP page.

Or just go here.

And yes, I'd love to see Yamato make a VF-17 as long as it was 1/48 scale and perfect variable. None of this 1/100 scale PVC parts swapping nonsense (VF-0S cough, cough) thank you very much.

Heck, I'm still waiting for my Bandai DX 1/65 scale Milia type VF-17S toy that was shown in the August 1995 issue of B-Club magazine.

Graham

[Gideon Krieg]

Renato brings up an interesting idea,

For those of you who take issue with Macross 7, how would you re-write the story?

My take;

Eliminate all elements of the Sound Force concept. Make Basara an archaeologist who is an expert in all the UN Spacy knows about the Protocultures. Make Mylene an aspiring VF pilot who looks up to her parents as role models. As both her parents were ace VF pilots, her wanting to follow in their foot steps is quite reasonable.

Keep the Protodevilns as they are except make them a heck of alot more realistic looking (H.R. Giger's works would be a very good template to work off of).

Have the UN Spacy loosing against the Varauta, badly.

Have the Macross 7 fleet uncover ancient Protoculture ruins which contain clues to the location of the device used by the Protocultures to imprison the Protodevilns. Have Basara make the discovery. Sivil should fall in love with Basara. So should Mylene.

Center the bulk of the series around the Macross 7 fleet moving from star system to star system hunting down clues to the location of the device.

The climax of the story should center around Sivil sacrificing herself to help Basara, and the UN Spacy, put the other Protodevilns back into their prison, or Sivil should sacrifice herself and send the Protodevilns back to their own dimension.

The end should include the possibility of other Protodevilns being imprisoned elswhere in the galaxy.

The End.

I am quite interested in reading what other disappointed Macross fans would mold Macross 7 into.

[Graham]

By the way, just a little off-topic, how rare are the TECT customization parts for the old Bandai 1/144 M7 kits these days?

Pretty damn rare

Graham

[Renato]

Renato brings up an interesting idea,

For those of you who take issue with Macross 7, how would you re-write the story?

My take;

              Eliminate all elements of the Sound Force concept.  Make Basara an archaeologist who is an expert in all the UN Spacy knows about the Protocultures.  Make Mylene an aspiring VF pilot who looks up to her parents as role models.  As both her parents were ace VF pilots, her wanting to follow in their foot steps is quite reasonable.

                Keep the Protodevilns as they are except make them a heck of alot more realistic looking (H.R. Giger's works would be a very good template to work off of).

                Have the UN Spacy loosing against the Varauta, badly. 

                Have the Macross 7 fleet uncover ancient Protoculture ruins which contain clues to the location of the device used by the Protocultures to imprison the Protodevilns.  Have Basara make the discovery.  Sivil should fall in love with Basara.  So should Mylene.

                Center the bulk of the series around the Macross 7 fleet moving from star system to star system hunting down clues to the location of the device.

                  The climax of the story should center around Sivil sacrificing herself to help Basara, and the UN Spacy, put the other Protodevilns back into their prison, or Sivil should sacrifice herself and send the Protodevilns back to their own dimension.

                  The end should include the possibility of other Protodevilns being imprisoned elswhere in the galaxy.

                    The End.

I am quite interested in reading what other disappointed Macross fans would mold Macross 7 into.

"Make Basara an archaeologist"??

Bwa-haha-ha!

What you mean is "Have an archaeologist as the main character and call him Basara if you wish".

I don't think you've thought this through. And where does Gamlin fit into all of this? Character development?? No, there wouldn't be any, because character development in M7 is centred on people getting to grips with Basara and his randomness.

Roll on "Super Fanstastic Archaeological Space Adveture Show"!!

By the way, the premise of your show sounds a lot like Macross Zero to me...

Edited June 1, 2004 by Renato

[Mechamaniac]

Whoo, bash bash, ching! clash!!

Just a small correction here, we did not "lose" the Viet Nam war. See HERE for more information.

The only other thing I have to say is....

SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!

Edited June 1, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Gideon Krieg]

Now that we have Renato's opinion, could we have someone else make a contribution to the thread.

Renato, I am glad you liked the show as it was originally created. However, those of us who did not like it are entitled to our opinions.

As jibes here seem to get out of control, and constructive debate crumbles and falls apart due to it. I am taking on a new approach to see if it will be effective in derailing any further outbursts. Not that I really think this is going to work, I just got sick of going back and forth arguing about something that is just a TV show. It is all make believe. There is no point in getting worked up over it.

So with that said, let me state my question a different way.

*Speaking to Macross 7's detractors, not supporters*

This is a, use your imagination and creative talent type question.

Taking on the postion of writer, how would you have written Macross 7?

I posted my take on it. (Oh and I removed Gamlin from the story entirely, in case anyone is wondering).

[RichterX]

Whoo, bash bash, ching! clash!!

Just a small correction here, we did not "lose" the Viet Nam war. See HERE for more information.

The only other thing I have to say is....

SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!

Wow! how the heck did Vietnam came into this?

[Keith]

I'll concede this week. Regardless of my opinions on soldiers, war mongerers, & gun owners, I "will" say that I do believe in a balance between peaceful intent, and self defense (note I didn't say war). However since I'm the only one who takes my stance here, I'm also not afraid to take it to an extreme stance as everyone should know by now.

And Agent One, shut the hell up. You are far more inflamatory & idiotic than I could ever be accused of being. You do nothing but bitch & rarely contribute a useful thought other than how extremely you hate whatever the current topic is. Bite me.

[Gui]

Ah... Internet boards... So much different people but always the same neverending debates... Let's see what happens if I reply

I know crap about war as well as Macross7 but I do know for sure that difference between cultures (and I mean radical differences, not the sort of differences there is between occidental people and semi-occidental people, these ones are some sort of cousins and there's no comparison possible with human and zentrans or human and protodevilns if I got the summary of the story correctly...), these cultural differences, then, can very often bring on some crazy behaviour which can and did turn some wars into an unexpected way.

Let's consider as an example, the aztec and inca people who saw the spanish conquistadors as some gods: Cortez and his soldiers were far much weaker than the natives -the result of the very first fights proved it and they became victorious because they transmitted some particular diseases to these people whose population has been decimated in a matter of weeks, pretty unusual weapon, neh?- but when the europeans arrived on this land it was approximately the same schedule as an ancient aztec prophecy said that the local God would come, therefore the natives welcomed their enemy and although the conquistadors immediately began to fight, ransack, rape, etc, the aztecs still thought they were gods and did not even try to protect themselves... Their king also offered himself and his life to the conquistadors: no need to precise that these last ones were pretty surprised and immediately thought these guys were completely retarded. They quickly changed their mind when they murdered the aztec king and his people began to take weapons against the invaders. The rest is History...

There's very probably a lot of other examples but I don't have enough knowledge about History to tell you more, at least as precisely. I think you got my overall point though.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Just a small correction here, we did not "lose" the Viet Nam war. See HERE for more information

OK, OK, off topic yes but being the son of a vietnam vet and having a masters degree that I based almost entirely on the first and second indochina war I have to respond to this (which will be my last response here as previously promised) as once again it is a personal belief so I will be as brief as possible so the normal thread can resume:

America LOST the second indochina war as we failed on all our objectives. Vietnam is a case of "winning the fights but losing the war". America's objectives were to 1) prop up the failing puppet democracy of South Vietnam 2) halt the spread of communism in SE Asia and 3) finally have a knock-down, drag out fight with the eastern bloc in someone else's yard. We failed on all those counts but the last, seeing as almost all the communist states supported North Vietnam in some way during the war. In the end North Vietnam overran and destroyed the South, Communism spread like wildfire in SE Asia when we pulled out and lots and lots of people died as a result. The second indochina war "had to happen" and it was inevitable that it ended the way it did. With the limitations put on our troops and tactics it could not be "won". Facts and figures can be easily made to dispute history but the primary and secondary mission goals of vietam were a total failure and our "enemies" in that war won the day, if we had not lost then Saigon would not be called Ho Chi Mihn city today. The same goes for Somalia and anyone who tells you differently is just a sore loser. America can lose and we did lose. What does this have to do with Valkyries fighting space monsters? Absolutely nothing so...

Back to Macross 7 and I'm outa here for good this time.

[bsu legato]

I'll concede this week. Regardless of my opinions on soldiers, war mongerers, & gun owners,

LOL! Even when you've lost, you still insist on throwing your lame rhetoric around. Warmongers? Let's see what Dictionary.com has to say....

war·mon·ger    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (wôrmnggr, -mng-)

n.

One who advocates or attempts to stir up war.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

warmonger·ing adj. & n.

warmonger

\War"mon`ger\, n. One who makes ar a trade or business; a mercenary. [R.] --Spenser.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

warmonger

n : a person who advocates war or warlike policies [syn: militarist]

So, who exactly is the "warmonger" here? I don't think we have any mercenaries here, so that definition is out. Nor do we have anybody attempting to start a war, so we'll cross that one off the list too. Finally, I haven't seen any of the anti-Macross 7 crowd posting anything remotely like "Yay war! W00t! Kill 'em all!" so you can't really say that anybody is "advocating" war.

Instead, we have some very grown-up people who recognize that war is, unfortunately, at times a necessary evil. But I'm not the least bit surprised that you wouldn't recognize that. What's really ironic is that you chose your country's Memorial Day weekend to lash out at the "warmongers" and other assorted boogeymen. The very weekend that honors those who sacrificed their lives so that you could sit in your parent's basement and wank off online about a freakin cartoon as if you were f*cking Socrates. In the end, this just shows what a sad, ungrateful little person you really are. If you insist on following this lifestyle, at least take Renato's advice and bathe. Nobody likes a dirty hippie.

Edit: forgot to mention the nonsensical attack on gun owners. Seriously: wtf?

Edited June 1, 2004 by bsu legato

[Blaine23]

The funniest thing is... the reasons why all you are bashing Keith's opinion on war, guns, etc...

... are exactly the same as why you don't like Basara's character in Macross 7.

I'm not trying to stir up any more BS, just making a point. I see alot of retaliatory talk about "the real world" and "real veterans"... well, to be fair, folks - this thread is about Macross 7 and a guy who chooses not to believe in that.

It IS fantasy. It is anime. It is not real life.

I can see why people disagree with it - but both sides are entitled to their opinion. Personally, I love shooting guns (don't own any - don't need to) but I also enjoy the idea of a world where beauty and heart could defeat weaponry as a way to end a war. I also don't expect to see planes turn into giant robots in real life anytime soon.

I don't expect those hung up on the "reality of war" to be able to see it as I do and enjoy the show - why are you guys trying to convince each other?

Again, it's simple. You either enjoy a show or you don't. There's no need to be bringing every thought you have about "real war", etc. Debate the show on its merits as a story - not by whether or not it's real... because, it's not.

[bsu legato]

It IS fantasy. It is anime. It is not real life.

I was fine arguing it from that standpoint until somebody suggest that somebody else should shoot themself. It seems that certain individuals can't recognize where to draw the line when discussing a cartoon.

[Stamen0083]

Just a small correction here, we did not "lose" the Viet Nam war. See HERE for more information.

Please

[Agent ONE]

The funniest thing is... the reasons why all you are bashing Keith's opinion on war, guns, etc...

... are exactly the same as why you don't like Basara's character in Macross 7.

Its a good observation.

I think peacfull conflict resolution is idealistic and unrealistic therefore I pretty much piss on morons (or moronic shows) that constantly bring it up.

Thats why:

I piss on M7, I piss on Basara, I piss on Keith.

[Agent ONE]

Just a small correction here, we did not "lose" the Viet Nam war.  See HERE for more information.

Please

Well, considering the ultimate outcome of the war: Viet-Nam is currently a great trading partner and partner in the effort against terror, it is a decent argument to make. I would phrase the whole thing differently though.

[Mechamaniac]

OK, to further qualify what I said. Like JSA, I am the son of a Viet Nam vet as well. My father was there during Tet in 68, and still carries a personal souvenir of his trip to southeast asia in the form of a bullet wound the size of my fist on his shoulder, and a piece of AK bullet that worked it's way out if his back sometime in the mid 80's, creepy!

So, I tend to take offense to those who say that we lost the war. Politically (which for all intents and purposes is what counts) we did lose. However Militarily, we won hands down.

I think Harry Summers said it best...

In Hanoi a week before the fall of Saigon, I told my North Vietnamese counterpart on the Four Party Joint Military Team (set up by the Paris Peace Accords to deal, unsuccessfully as it turned out, with the POW/MIA issue), "You never beat us on the battlefield." He thought about that for a moment, then replied: "That may be so. But it's also irrelevant."

That being said, back to Macross 7!

[Druna Skass]

Hmmm...

I'm surprised this incarnation is still alive...

[Stamen0083]

So, I tend to take offense to those who say that we lost the war.

I tend to take offense to those who say we won the war, when clearly, we did not, politically or militarily speaking.

If we did, Viet Nam would not be a communist country.

Well, considering the ultimate outcome of the war: Viet-Nam is currently a great trading partner and partner in the effort against terror, it is a decent argument to make. I would phrase the whole thing differently though.

Viet Nam is a partner in that respect simply because the people running the country are pushover pussies. Did you know they gave up a small chunk of our land to China awhile ago to buy their friendship?

[Blaine23]

[bart simpson] What part of diddy-mau didn't you understand? [/bart simpson]

Seriously, folks... let's leave 'Nam back in the damn sixties, where it belongs.

I think peacfull conflict resolution is idealistic and unrealistic therefore I pretty much piss on morons (or moronic shows) that constantly bring it up.

Thats why:

I piss on M7, I piss on Basara, I piss on Keith.

I hear you, AgentONE - but just for my clarification... what is it about giant transforming space planes and 40 ft tall women that you can accept- but the idea of pacifism makes you start with the pee pee reaction?

[Roy Focker]

I take a weekend off and hell if I know where this topic is going but consider itl over. What problem any one has forget about it. Don't make me interested in examing each and every post.