Gideon Krieg

Sweeeet!

Whoops Yep, has 7 barrels. My mistake. The lethality of the 30 x 113 ammunition has been proven against both top and side armor of T-72 MBTs and all medium and light tanks used by the Iraqs in the Gulf War as well as all types of armored vehicles. Individually the ammunition is incapable of penetration frontal armor, however the USAF has speculated that bursts of 30 mm DU rounds are capable of penetrating the frontal armor/heavy armor of T-72 tanks. As these tests were conducted in the 1970s it is probably safe to assume that the 30 mm is not able to penetrate modern frontal armor like that of an M1A1 or T-80. There actually is a difference between the Gatling gun and the Vulcan. According to the book "Rapid Fire" by Antony G. Williams (Pg. 80-81). A Vulcan cannon is only an electrically powered Gatling gun (developed by the American "Project Vulcan" in 1940s and 1950s) while a Gatling gun is the general classfication used by the US for all types of rotary cannons. This includes gas powered types (like the GAU-4/A, the self-powered version of the M61A used for installation on craft with limited electrical power, mostly Huey helicopters), the air-powered types (like the SUU-16/A gun pod), and engine-gas powered types (like the GAU-12/U fitted to the AV-8B). Gatling guns also come in various action types, from types which have barrels riding on a cam which draws the barrel back (to eject and extract cartriges) to simple action types which have a traditional machinegun style bolt/bolt carrier action. There is also a third type of action, the revolver type, which is more common in naval Gatling weaponry (like the Oerlikon KBD 7 barrel revolver cannon). So not all Gatling cannons are Vulcans but all Vulcans are Gatlings. Oh and as a Gundam fan I would like to add that 60 millimeter is a ridiculous caliber for the head mounted cannons on the RX-78-2 and 75 millimeter is only adding insult to injury. The Tomahawk destroid's head cannons are only 12.7 millimeter, which makes far more sense. The Gundam's head guns should be 20-30 millimeter maximum. Oh well.

The GU-11 gun pod was no doubt inspired by the late 1960s USAF and US Navy, F-4C Phantom's SUU-23/A 20 millimeter, 6 barrel, gun pod. Seen here on the centerline; and from behind here; Combined with the more modern GE/GPU-5 or FFV unipod type weapons, it would almost look exactly like a GU-11 gun pod. Kawamori knows his aircraft weapons that is for sure. No doubt the 55 millimeter tri-barrel (is it a gattling or vulcan cannon?) was chosen because it would make more sense to have a weapon capable of penetrating thick or advanced armor plating. The premier autocannon currently in service is the good ol M61 20 millimeter six barrel gun. Its used on various aircraft including the F-4 Phantom 2, F-15 Eagle, F-18 hornet, and F-16, and F-14 Tomcat. The most powerful aircraft autocannon currently in service is the GAU-8/A Avenger 30 millimeter 9 barrel gun, mounted on the Tank killing Fairchild/Republic A-10 Thunderbolt 2. A 55 millimeter autocannon would be very devastating. Thirty mil can chew through even the toughest tank armor of today, so a 55 mil would be very impressive to say the least. I have to hand it to Kawamori, he made an excellent choice with a 50 millimeter class weapon for the VF-1. Very believable and practical.

Thank you Noyhauser, I'll have to try and find a copy. I find it interesting that many of the people I know who criticize anime as being childish also enjoy "prime time" sitcoms and dramas. Other than being animated, how are the stories in anime any different. Other than being more for a general audience. Then there is the selective or semi-anime fans who will actually go so far as to belittle someone for watching certain types of anime. For example; my girlfriend loves Inuyasha, and hates Macross. She keeps trying to convince me Macross is for little kids. After seeing a few episodes of M7, she thinks Macross is completely stupid. Anybody else here deal with this kind of thing?

No, I do not dispute Basara's ability to fly his valkyrie. His ability as a pilot is made very clear in the anime. What I see as unrealistic is his ability to survive against superior numbers of Varuta VFs of compariable manufacture to the VF-19 Kai, being flown by pilots of above-average ability (even in their state) more times than is logical, even for fiction. I guess it reminds me too much of American super-hero comic book characters, which I despise vehemently. A few battles yes, but Basara survives more battles than is believable. They just went too far, even for Science Fiction. It would be like Luke Skywalker flying into the Death star battle at the end of Star Wars episode 4, and not firing a shot. The X-wing is superior to the TIE fighter in almost every way but numerous X-wings get shot down by TIEs, not to mention the main turbo-laser batteries. Had George Lucas writen Star Wars with Luke out there singing to defeat the Empire instead of blowing the Death Star to atoms, the film would never have gone over with American audiences(because of the sheer stupidity of the concept) and Star Wars would have been a complete failure. Back to M7. Even the fact that Basara is portrayed as a highly proficient pilot is of little consequence compared to the basic military law of "overwhelming numbers always wins out over superior ability or technology/firepower." As to why Maximillian Jenius is more believable than Basara, that is easy, Max is an ace pilot (by definition a combat pilot who has shot down 5 or more enemy craft). Besides in both the SDF Macross TV series and the Movie, Max is shot down by Milia. If my memory serves me, the Basara character is never shot down. Max's VF-1A also gets shot up in the Breeti's ship and explodes. So Max looses 2 VFs during the course of SDF Macross and Basara looses zero, ziltch, nada. Hikaru looses/damages five VFs, the VF-1D, his VF-1J (Kamjim blows its arm off and wrecks the head), his VF-1J in the cyclops recon pod, another VF-1J in Breeti's ship (on the spikes), and the VF-1S Super in episode 27. Hikaru was an Ace pilot in SDF Macross. So was Roy Fokker, and he gets killed! You expect me to believe that Basarimus-Prime (pick on of Basara because of his autobot looking VF-19) is so invincible that he cannot be destroyed by the varuta who are in fact using variable fighters which are near equal to the VF-19 Kai, but are in greater numbers. What is Basara a trans-dimensional reject from GI-Joe? Where all kinds of missiles, energy beams, and gunfire fly at him but he can't die or get hurt in a combat zone(I am aware of Basara "dying" somewhere near the end of the series from singing but, that was not during combat). I suppose if Basara's VF-19 Kai was heavily armored(i.e. an armored VF-19, like the armored VF-11 or VF-1), with a mini-barrier shield (which encircled his entire fighter) rather than a pinpoint barrier, and both his fighter's barrier shield and armor plating was shown taking the damage, I would find his surviving combat more believable. Even if the VF-19 Kai was simply shot to hell every episode Basara went into the battlefield, it would be more believable. As far as the overall inner message of Macross 7 is concerned, it was not lost on me Keith. I understood it quite well, I just don't agree with it and I find it to be very unrealistic and utopian. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the spirit of mankind to overcome, I just think we need the right tools do it. Sometimes that means using weapons of war. Besides, I don't find inspiration in anime. Many Otaku do, but I do not. I like the artwork, the mecha, and some of the charaters but the stories and themes are usually to unrealistic for me to take them seriously. Were I 19 years old again, sure, I could get into it, but I've grown beyond such ideological "pie in the sky" wishful thinking. Don't misunderstand me, Peace is wonderful, but pacifism has never been, nor will it ever be, the solution against a real world agressor or war, even Ghandi died at the hands of an agressor. If pacifism and talking out differences were a solution to war the world would be a much happier place. Well Keith, here we are again, at odds over M7. Why. Because you and I disagree about Basara and the overall quality of M7 compared to other anime. Not sure about you but I think we have come to an impass. I'm not going to budge on this one, and I know you won't either. Therefore; ===================================================== Back to what I do like about M7! Gamlin. Yes, I must say I like Gamlin. He is certainly one of the most believable characters in the show. I like how this character's demeanor was developed and the attitude Kawamori or Miyatake (or whoever designed the character's personality) gave him. Sivil, ahhh what's there not to like. The Protodevlins were not that bad. However, they do remind me of the row-beasts from Voltron. To borrow Keith's line. I disagree 100%, Zero was good in my opinion. I agree on the autobot looking Sound Force mecha, Crusher-Joe like costumes (unless that's supposed to be an inside joke about Crusher-Joe, then it would make sense). The J-pop apparently has to grow on you. Now that I am watching M7 for the 4th time, I actually kinda like the music from M7. This comming from a guy who likes Nickel Back. I used to hate the M7 music. Mabe it's brainwashing me or something. Not likely.

Thank you JBO. Jenius, you are correct, I am off subject. *regains composure* One of my favorite aspects of Macross 7 has got to be the Varuta fighters (I'm thumbing through Macross 7, This is animation; animation materials book right now) Of them all the VBZ-99G; and the plain ol FZ-109A are my favorites. The VBZ-99G battroid reminds of the MS-18E Kampher from Gundam 0080: War in the pocket. Which is a kick-butt mobile suit. The VBZ-99G is no slouch either. Looking at all the Varuta VFs, I can see a very vague resemblance to Zeon type mobile suits. I think its the "suit of armor" look they have. Makes em look real shweeet.

I'm in the 30's crowd and love all types of anime (yes even M7, except for Basara and the Soundforce/autobots ). Its appeal is universal. I have found that many American adults view it in the same way they view video games and other media not traditionally thought of as "for adults." Therefore they are prejudice against those of us who enjoy this type of entertainment. They automatically look down on us as childish or immature. Which of course is complete hog-wash. Many of us lead what is considered a normal adult life by most standards (I hope ). DeathHammer, I love your suggestions. I too would like to see anime "go where no man has gone before" and break new ground in entertainment. I would like to see a very dark and as realistic as possible, space epic. Not a Macross or Gundam type, more like Starship Troopers. With the anime focusing on the life of a soldier in the heat of a desperate interstellar conflict. An anime that centers around an Antediluvian world according to the Hebrew/biblical version of it would be neat. With the Nephalim in all their evil Half-angelic wickedness against an all but helpless mankind. Any of the western mythological epics would suffice. Anything by H.P. Lovecraft made into anime would be sweet. Alternate/fictional histories would also be interesting. Like what if the Axis won WW2? How would Japan fair?

I agree with you JBO. However, my point is that the character Basara is not believable. Keith, I know Basara is special to you. That is painfully obvious. WTF? I did not express anything of that sort. Keith, you are reading into what I am posting. I thought I had made it clear that I agreed with the concept of "war is evil" and "give peace a chance." No sane person desires to kill people. Soldiers do so because they have to. I realize in the case of M7 that Basara is not a soldier and is only the lead guitarist for fire bomber. Which reminds me. How the hell did Basara get clearance to launch his fighter into a combat zone in the first place? Are we supposed to assume there are no regulations concerning aerospace traffic on the colony ships. I am positive this issue is not addressed in any episode. Certainly not in Ep. 1, when, if I'm not mistaken, Gamlin threatens to have Basara arrested for entering the combat zone and tapping into the military channel but nothing ever comes of it. Then in episode 3, when Gupernich orders Gigil to attack the M7 fleet (as a decoy) and in the middle of the Supernova concert, woooosh! Off goes Basara to fly into the battle zone, and then this type of crap continues for much of the series. That is total and complete B.S.. I'd like to see some Basara wanna-be just try and hack military communications going on over in Iraq. I'll bet his or her ass would be in cuffs and off to some undisclosed location faster than you can say "Bomba!" I am fully aware that "its just a TV show, a cartoon." Though I sometimes wonder about some of us here at MW. Ace pilots like Capt. J.D. McConnell Jr. (16 kills) and Maj. J Jabara (15 kills), of Korean War/Mig alley fame, survived by shooting down their opponents before they were shot down. As did the other 37 American aces of Korea. A total of 792 MIG-15s were shot down, for only a loss of 78 F-86 sabers. If shooting has nothing to do with flying in a aerial battlespace, than explain why so many planes get shot down? Guarunteed no. Have a much better chance of making it, yes. Many a consciencious objector met his end in Vietnam for choosing not to fight (approximately 3 out of 5. Source, U.S. Army Hickman report, dated 1975 A.D., on the usefullness of draftees.). Keith, if you can not figure out why shooting back at an enemy in an aerial engagment will greatly enhance your chances of survival, then you need to take some time away from Macross and spend some serious time researching this subject (that is not meant as an insult). The military channel is a good place to start, the show "Wings at War", where actual military pilots are interviewed, should be of great help to you (seriously, no BS). I worry about you Keith. If Kawamori had chosen Basara to be an honorable warrior, fighting only when he has to, then that is what Basara would have been. The outcome of the story would then have been determined by Kawamori. If it meant Basara firing a reactive weapon into Gupernich, and him being destroyed, then that is how it would have ended. Sometimes I wonder if you understand that. Sometimes you write posts that make me think you are "living the experience." The same can be said for SDF Macross. If Kawamori had decided to pull a Nishizaki (Space Cruiser Yamato) and had the Macross blow BoDolza's command ship away with one fell swoop (like the Yamato's wave motion gun) then that is how the series would have ended. I agree he made the story more interesting (and original) by having Lynn Minmei confuse the Zentran with her music and a Kiss (though I dislike the whole "singing solution" as it was portrayed in M7) and thus writing the story so the Zentran that had been exposed to the Earth's "culture" joined with the SDF Macross against BoDolza (who as we know was going to kill them all anyway, so it was a Kill or be killed situation for them). If Kawamori had done the Yoshiyuki Tomino thing and made Basara a civilian caught up in the war like Amuro Ray, who was forced to fight, rather than willingly fly into combat, without fighting, I would find this character more believable. As for Captain Herlock, he kills his enemies, period. I have seen all (except the new series)of the anime of Captain Herlock, from the 70s show to Arcadia of my youth, and his various appearances in 999. The character Herlock is nothing like the Basara character. I went and watched the first 4 episodes again last night (I don't have time to watch all 49 again). I realize that it is not so much the Basara character's music or beliefs, its that he can survive so many battles without getting shot down/destroyed. It's just ludicrous. However, I am not trying to convince you of whether or not the M7 fleet would have died without Basara's influence. That is acting like M7 is some kind of actual event. No, I am trying to relate to you that Mr. Shoji Kawamori could have made the character Basara more believable. It's not. I was picking on Basara as a Jimi Hendrix wanna-be. You know, "Space-Hippie." I like Jimi Hendrix's music, so I guess I was not being fair to Mr. Hendrix. Now that I think of it, it's insulting to compare Hendrix to Basara. Jimi is far better than that. My apologies to any Hendrix fans here. Well, that is your opinion Keith. Mine is that Kawamori should redo Macross 7 and make it more "realistic" by either eliminating Basara from it completely or changing his character type to a more Kodai or Amuro Ray type character. In closing (since I feel like I'm writing a persuasive essay), I'd like to finish by saying that other than Superpilot/musician/political activist/special spiritia generating-Basara and the Autobot look of the Soundforce VFs, I like M7. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, and for anyone here who is interested in actual military theory, here is a good place to start.

Why am I not surprised. Realistic: adj. the theory or practice of fidelity in art and literature to nature or to real life and to accurate representation without idealization.--Source: Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 11th ed. Keith, even you must admit that Basara represents the ideology of pacifism in its purest/extreme form. Granted that makes for "good" storytelling, but is not realistic. How is that realistic? Okay, I would really like the name or names of any ace pilots (living or dead from any actual airforce), who were able to survive in aerial combat repeatedly without shooting back at the enemy. I agree this system would have prolonged the life of his fighter, but with the number, and quality of the Varuta fighters (not too mention their pilots were more than just Zombies), I highly doubt the pin-point barrier system of the fighter would last long in actual combat. Also, this system cannot possibly deflect/absorb every single attack. I must concur with JBO, as with all fiction stories, if you are a "Red Shirt" ( star trek humor there) you are as good as dead. However, a main character's life span is normally much longer if not indefinite. I noticed the examples given for character death in Macross are from SDF Macross. The way those characters died (or came close to death) was very realistic (especially Roy's and Kakizaki's deaths). The close scrapes that Hikaru and even Maximillian had, were also believable. Isamu and Gould's battle with the Ghost fighter in Macross Plus exposes many of the hypothetical limitations of the YF-19 and YF-21, to the point of Gould's Kamikaze attack on the Ghost fighter. To me that was realistic. The dog-fights of Macross Zero are equally realistic (Kawamori redeemed himself in Zero, at least in my opinion). But, Basara Hendrix flying through outerspace, playing guitar, flying the VF-19, dodging enemy attacks (pinpoint barrier or not), and not firing more than his "speaker missiles"/ammo, without being turned into subatomic particles was quite frankly a truck load of garbage. I understand, and to a certain extent agree with, the message Kawamori is trying to relate through Basara, I just do not agree with how he went about expressing it. I actually got that same message from Hikaru. Yet Hikaru was a very believable character. Hikaru seemed to hate war completely, but had grown as a person over the course of SDF Macross and learned that though horrible, war was sometimes the only solution. Had the character Basara been more of a say.........Captain Herlock type character (i.e. he fights only when he has to, but when he does that enemy's number is up), I would be a fan of Basara. I like how the character looks overall (not the clothes or the color red, but hey I can't have everything), I like the idea of him having a privately owned, fully armed, Valkyrie (since a speaker system can be considered a weapon against the Zentraedi, and lets not forget those head lasers, mini-missile launchers, and gun pod. Thank you Kawamori) as opposed to the civilian VF from Macross 2. Perhaps M7 will be redone in say 10 or 20 years and the "mistakes" made will be corrected and a new and more Macross M7 will come forth.

Another Macross 7 thread? Geez, how many of these do you guys go through in a week? This argument about M7 is worse than the energizer bunny, it just keeps on going, and going, and going, and going.................................... Though I am forced to agree with Deathhammer. He makes very good points about the series. But he forgot one element that I have found turns every American adult anime fan I know, completely off. The similarity between this; and this; You guys know the song; "Transformers! More than meets the eye! Transformers! Robots in Disguise!" The embarassment of being the center of "Basarius-Prime" jokes and "Soundobot" jibes gets old after a spell. I must admit, the Soundforce mecha, with their "faces", boobs, and very human forms, resemble the transformers a great deal. I sometimes ask myself WTF was Kawamori thinking?

Geez, I am very impressed. This thread hasn't degenerated into a M7 sucks fest. Anyway, Best parts of M7 IMHO; Mecha (all but soundforce) Starships (especially the Neo-Nupertiet) Characters: all but, you guessed it, Basara (not a realistic character, nor is his surviving combat realistic, he should have been blasted into space-dust multiple times over ). Sivil (self-explanatory ) Story (so-so, could have been much worse, could have been much better. SDF Macross, or Macross plus, it was not! I give it a 3 out of 5) Overall: the worst of the Macross series, but far better than most anime I have seen and light years ahead of Robotech.

Hello briscorj84, I see under your Europa class heavy destroyer entry you have two images there. I do not mind you posting them there but, since you asked who it was that drew the concept sketch and scanned in the image from the flashback 2012 movie book, I am happy to answer you. Twas me! I have emailed scanned images of the original sketches to you, these include the stats and the foward and aft views. Sorry the images are on graph paper I also have them in PDF format. They should clean up nicely with photoshop. Cheers; Gideon Krieg

They didn't? What the hell were they thinking? After checking out the pics of this fighter, that is very disappointing Keith. Perhaps Ban Dai did a model version. Does anyone know if they did or not? I am a fan of models, Yamatos and other super-poseables are nice but a bit expensive. I have a few Gundams of that ilk, a RX-178 1/70th (I think ), and two Zaku-2s (green and red/char type). Many models, mostly Space Battleship Yamato and Space Pirate Captain Herlock. Anyhoo.....the VF-19P is most certainly a sweet fighter. Kawamori never disappoints his fans with his designs, that is for sure.

Haappee Birthday to you! Haappee Birthday to you! Happy Birthday NaaNaashee! Happy Birthday to you! Have a happy birthday Nanashi, and many more to come. By the way, what's the damage, hit 3....0 yet? No real big deal but, I hit 31 as of the 6th of August this year. My wife got me a walking cane and some Preparation H (not kidding ) She has a dark sense of humor. Oh, almost forgot, exellent pics of the missile launchers. As always, your site is greatly appreciated. As is this one, if Graham and Shawn are reading this. *bows to awsomeness of Macross world*

Thank you Graham! Found those pics at both places. While on the subject of the Macross design works book. I think that book is the only place I have ever seen a pic of the VF-1 Ostrich in battroid mode. Not to mention the VT-1C which I believe makes an appearence in Dynamite 7 if I am not mistaken (never seen Dynamite, but have been told about it!). BTW, was the concept booster system pictured on page 94 of the Macross Design works book ever used for the VF-19 Excaliber? It has a "94.3" bubble next to it. I ask because it looks "kick ass" . There is another concept pic of it on the next page with a "94.3" bubble next to it, this is a battroid pic. Anyway, thanks again Graham.