Malicious Gash Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) Having a debate, and I'm wounder just HOW strong Star Wars sheilds are in comparison if fired upon by one? Edited April 19, 2004 by Malicious Gash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Leader Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 pretty pointless argument, but I'm bored so I'll indulge you. It's pretty simple. If a group of 4 Macross cannons fire and are able to destory %60 percent of an invading fleet in a single volley, a star destroyer or the like from Star wars would merely be a drop in the bucket by comparison.... the zentraedi and Marduk were using ships much larger and probably designed to take a heavier pounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicious Gash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Pointless indeed, but from the debate, I've been in the SWfanboys are claiming these magical sheilds withstand the cannons with ease, and I quote one of these individuals. "Was that a flash?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 There is a simple answer: Do not involve yourself with such asinine "debates." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichterX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Pointless indeed, but from the debate, I've been in the SWfanboys are claiming these magical sheilds withstand the cannons with ease, and I quote one of these individuals. Yeah sure and the shields in Star Trek are eternal and undestructive. Why is this argument here anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 (edited) As far as I know, there are no official numbers. I've looked hard, but no one ever published them to the best of my knowledge. I doubt anyone at Studio Nue bothered to calculate it either I have seen one fan analysis that attempted to quantify the yeild of the Main Gun. The analysis was done years ago by a fella on another board and I unfortunately didn't keep a copy of it because at the time, he was still refining the analysis. He analyzed the scene in Booby Trap, in which the Macross autonomously fires the main gun's beam through South Ataria Island's mountain range, across several thousand kilometers of ocean, out into orbit, and through two Zentradi cruisers some 280,000 kilometers outside of orbit. He came up with the low end figure of 1.2 teratons equivalent explosive yeild per shot. In his analysis, he ignored any calculations for the several thousand kilometers of water the beam passed through, the atmosphere resistance, and he did not know what strength to attribute to the hyper carbon hulls of Zentradi warships so he used plain old steel as a substitute. He predicted his final analysis - which would include all factors that interacted with the beam - would increase the low-end yeild by an order of magnitude making it somewhere in the petaton range. From what I know of official Star Wars figures, the big Heavy Turbo Lasers are some 200 gigatons per shot. A single shot from the Macross main gun would be the equivalent firepower of anywhere from as little as 6 Heavy Turbo Laser shots to as many as 5,000 Heavy Turbo Laser shots. However, the short of it is, until someone else does a fair analysis (and by "fair" I mean not an analysis done by the typical Star Wars zealots with which you're probably debating) we're out of luck as to a final figure...and naturally there is nothing official Edited April 20, 2004 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicious Gash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Its not here, and the reason, I came here to ask is because you have the most infomation on both series. Nor did, I expect this kind of responce from them, but behold they have not grasp the power of the Macross universe. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Gotta wonder then, the power of the grand cannons Esepcially since they last for what, half a minute at full power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neova Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I wonder how powerful Macross 13 from The PS2 Macross game was with 4 cannons. No Imperial Naval Force can take that thing head on. Well, a Super Star Destroyer can just ram it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 There's only one way to determine this. We must pit George Lucas and Shoji Kawamori in a fight to the death. Seriously, though, it really depends on who is wrting the story. All of this is made-up fantasy. I've heard descriptions from roleplaying books stating that a single Star Destroyer can raze a planet by itself (though if that were true, then the Death Star and the Eclipse class Super star Destroyer wouldn't have been nearly as impressive to those living in the SW universe). Then you've got things like the Sun Crusher, a ship the size of a fighter that can lay waste to entire solar systems (I hate most of the SW Extended Universe ). I don't think there's anything in the Macross universe that went that far (something about 'rediculously inconsistant, power tripping plot devices'), but they did eventually have fighters loaded up with more than enough firepower to take out capital ships. Who really knows what a nuke would do to a Star Wars capital ship? I mean, I hear lots of fans saying that things like nukes would just bounce off their advanced sheilds and such, yet the weapons displayed in shows like Star Trek and Star Wars, when used against 'real world' sort of things like mountains, planets, and asteroids and whatnot just do not seem to show superior firepower to something of that magnitude(aside from the Death Star's super laser, of course). Most people's arguments generally follow the line of thought that since shows like Star Wars or Star Trek take places either so far in the future, or in cultures that have existed for thousands and thousands of years of space travel, that they are far more powerful than you could possibly comprehend with 100% of your brain. Whereas Macross begins in 1999, and even the latest stories take place in the 2050's. And nuke's just are so 20th century. Professor Amazing invented a wonderous Sciengenioisity field that miraculously neutralizes nuclear weapons and even programs your VCR! All in the year 20X6! Later, Magic Beans were discovered, grown with dylithium fertalizer, that produced magical force shields that protect against everything except for Phasers and male pattern baldness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impreszive Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Nice Radd.......Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicious Gash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 You know whats really scary, the people I debated said the exact same thing. The Sun Crusher, and the those Godlike sheilds which surround everything from a tie fighter to a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Having a debate, and I'm wounder just HOW strong Star Wars sheilds are in comparison if fired upon by one? Well if X-Wing on the PC is anything to go by, a deflector shield would be about as effective as serran wrap against a Macross type cannon blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicious Gash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Hold on, the Macross 13 had 4 cannons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 ....I am NOT going to get into another Trek/Wars debate. I'm out of here before the supernerds show up........oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicious Gash Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 *L* No seriously, the 4 cannons comment, you were serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichterX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Macross 13 has four? how does it carry them? 1 attach and the other three just follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 The Gunship has four Barrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Can a New Macross-class use a gun in each hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 From the Compendium: Guns: Main gun: 1 Gunship super beam weapon, 100 degrees elevation when latched to holder grip, less than 1 shot/60 min; 4 beam weapons And that is a correction of varifiable data, I do not want to contribute to the Star Wars vs. Macross "discussion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichterX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 (edited) Can a New Macross-class use a gun in each hand? yes they can edited to add I believe the canon can fire by itself but the shot is not as powerful as when done by a New Macross-Class ship http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/macross7.shtml Edited April 20, 2004 by RichterX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Can a New Macross-class use a gun in each hand? yes they can edited to add I believe the canon can fire by itself but the shot is not as powerful as when done by a New Macross-Class ship http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/macross7.shtml That website is mainly RPG fanfiction, not exactly a good source for information. It's as about as official as my story about magic beans to explain Star Trek shields.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Ah yes, but they are shiny magic beans! There is a difference! In all seriousness I don't think you can argue with any of these Starwars fanatics and win. They're so lost in their fandom they can't accept that anything can loose, not even their precious starfighters. I think a VF can outmanuver anything they have anyday. And besides, if you have a thousand missiles, where can you go wrong? (Ala Heavy armor packs)? Although I gotta amit SW has Macross beat in the capital ship department, SW has a lot more variety Not that I'm saying their cooler, they just have more. This reminds me of a big debate over in Gundam.com about the strongest mecha. Ideon won, actually.... But in that debate was a big arguement about the power of weapons and the capacity of shields and what not. Basicly if you're tossing gigatons around you can't fail- I don't think even SW or ST can argue with that logic despite the amount of 'official' documentation they might have. Oh right, I know where SW and ST powers come from: Fanatical fandom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Post SDF-1 Macross class capital ships still transform? Why!?! I mean, if the SDF-1 hadn't lost its fold system, there would have been no point in it ever transforming? Yes, it would be nice to have the ability to Daedelus attack. But. . . I find it hard to believe that a ship would be built to transform just for that. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Post SDF-1 Macross class capital ships still transform? Why!?! For the same reason EVERY mecha in Macross must transform now: Look Cool Marketing Factor. The producers looked at all the hub-bub over the VF-1s and thought, "We need to do that again," and have since decreed that everything must transform in Macross. The Koing Monster and later capital-scale ships being the best examples of trying just that, trying to cash in and make more money. And thinking of that leads to an interesting question: Early on in Mac0 Nora is explaining that it's the Anti-UN that developed the transform technology and that the UN stole it, right? Well, WHY would the Anti-UN have developed that technology in the first place? The only reason for the soldier mode is to fight Zentradi, as stated by Focker in the 2nd episode of the series, and I sincerely doubt the Anti-UN found out about that, since it was stated in the first two episodes of SDF Macross that the knowledge of the aliens was secret from everyone not directly connected to the restoration project. If the Anti-UN had found out about the Zentradi, they would most assuradly have leaked that knowledge out and soon everyone would have known it. So my question again is this: WHY would the Anti-UN have developed that technology in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Most people's arguments generally follow the line of thought that since shows like Star Wars or Star Trek take places either so far in the future, or in cultures that have existed for thousands and thousands of years of space travel, that they are far more powerful than you could possibly comprehend with 100% of your brain. Whereas Macross begins in 1999, and even the latest stories take place in the 2050's. And nuke's just are so 20th century. Professor Amazing invented a wonderous Sciengenioisity field that miraculously neutralizes nuclear weapons and even programs your VCR! All in the year 20X6! Later, Magic Beans were discovered, grown with dylithium fertalizer, that produced magical force shields that protect against everything except for Phasers and male pattern baldness. In Star Trek the Next Generation, there was an episode where the Enterprise and some alien ship were at a stand off, because the other ship had no shields because they had less advanced technology, but their main weapons were missiles with high yield warheads or something... And the Enterprise's shields couldn't defend against them since they were designed for high energy weapons or something like that. Don't ask what season because I'm not thaaat big of a nerd! A nuke ought to tear through a star trek starship like a M-80 strapped to a guy's- ... never mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impreszive Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Lord. This really is a pointless debate. Each side has its own little world, and they should never ever cross into one another. Let the other propeller heads have their debate. If you really want to know what is more powerful; I submit my finger.....pressing the "stop" button on my remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Major Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 well you have to admit that these threads make for some verry interesting, and Funny posts. and anyway, Macross has SW and ST beat in one area undisputably. the Barrier System(s) i mean come on, these things can basicly shrug off anything, and when that cant shrug any more they simply say "I tire of you, Die now" and eliminate everything nearby. (at least in the case of the Full protection barrier) and in the case of the smaller systems they eat beams like they were so many peanuts at sports bar on saturday night durring the big game >_> pretty powerful although not invincable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 The Koing Monster and later capital-scale ships being the best examples of trying just that, trying to cash in and make more money. They were so clever they tried to cash with something that even didn't have a model. But I assume a lot of Battle 7's posters were sold. Early on in Mac0 Nora is explaining that it's the Anti-UN that developed the transform technology and that the UN stole it, right? She was told they got it first. The truth is out there. The only reason for the soldier mode is to fight Zentradi, as stated by Focker in the 2nd episode of the series This is simply what he was told. The truth is out there. and I sincerely doubt the Anti-UN found out about that, since it was stated in the first two episodes of SDF Macross that the knowledge of the aliens was secret from everyone not directly connected to the restoration project. So the Anti-UN saw the alien ship crashing and got the overtechnology (which came from the alien vessel), yet they didn't know nothing about aliens. They didn't even try to spy people investigating on over-technology. Impressive logic. Anyway, as VF-1 power calculation was connected to the RX-78, SDF-1 is to Yamato. I believe hidden stats show something like SDF-1 being 4 times more powerful than the Yamato, maybe not for the gun but for the omni-barrier. FV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akt_m Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 although i am not a dragon ball z fan, i think goku can beat a entire fleet alone. (just a stupid comment ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 (edited) A nuke ought to tear through a star trek starship like a M-80 strapped to a guy's- ... never mind! In the original series, an episode entitled "Balance of Terror" is devoted to a cat-and-mouse game between Kirk at the helm of the Enterprise, and a cloaked Romulan ship commanded by a very Kirk-like Captain (oddly, played by the guy who would eventually play Spock's father). At one point, the Romulan ship cloaks and tries to appear destroyed by sending wreckage out into space. Along with the wreckage, they dump one of the "old" nuclear weapons they have onboard. The Enterprise narrowly avoids being destroyed when Spock notes among the debris: "one metal cased object." Kirk: "Helm hard over! Phaser fire! Point-blank!" The nuke explodes next to the ship upon being hit (I know, odd), but the Enterprise survives with minor damage and some radiation burns for some people in the lower decks. I'm assuming it's the shields that saved them. I really dug that episode when I was a kid cuz I loved submarines and that episode was modeled upon the classic sub movies. That's why I remember the dialogue. H Edited April 21, 2004 by Hurin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Lord. This really is a pointless debate. Each side has its own little world, and they should never ever cross into one another. Let the other propeller heads have their debate. If you really want to know what is more powerful; I submit my finger.....pressing the "stop" button on my remote. Dude. . . now I just feel like a jerk for breaking into your house, tying you to your chair, taping your eyes open, and forcing you to read this thread. I actually think these sorts of things are cool if they are kept light. I don't see anyone getting all huffy. What's the harm? You don't like it, don't read it. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I actually think these sorts of things are cool if they are kept light. I don't see anyone getting all huffy. What's the harm? You don't like it, don't read it. well...it does stray pretty close to a "versus" thread, which if I remember correctly is officially frowned upon here. Plus, well fanboy vs. fanboy "debates" are without exception a waste of everyone's time. But, I guess you can decide that for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impreszive Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 The reason I was saying that was beacuse I have seen it in other threads here. I think they eventually flagged it under one section. Otherwise. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 although i am not a dragon ball z fan, i think goku can beat a entire fleet alone. (just a stupid comment ) What if Bodolza in DYRL shot him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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