Myriad Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 We are in Shawn's house. Pull your panties out of your bums and obey the rules of his house. Anybody know where to get GITS 2nd Gig Episode 3 yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i was not implying that bigwest owns Mospeda i was replying to blaine23, duke togo and ewilen, bootlegging various macross series. Hang on a sec. I realize that there's a lot of legal, ethical, and moral doublespeak surrounding these issues, but I want to make clear that when there's a legitimate R1 release of a product, I wouldn't encourage anyone to seek a downloadable fansub or HK-type bootleg of it--except possibly to supplement the translation. I'd also prefer to keep talk of doing so out of MW. Well it isn't legal anywhere. I thought we were on the going by the same rules that fansubbers go by. If it's available domestically(U.S.) then it's a no-no. But if someone was to start a thread about fan-subbers then the occasional mention of bootlegs available domestically is somewhat tolerated or overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfunk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i was not implying that bigwest owns Mospeda i was replying to blaine23, duke togo and ewilen, bootlegging various macross series. Hang on a sec. I realize that there's a lot of legal, ethical, and moral doublespeak surrounding these issues, but I want to make clear that when there's a legitimate R1 release of a product, I wouldn't encourage anyone to seek a downloadable fansub or HK-type bootleg of it--except possibly to supplement the translation. I'd also prefer to keep talk of doing so out of MW. Well it isn't legal anywhere. I thought we were on the going by the same rules that fansubbers go by. If it's available domestically(U.S.) then it's a no-no. But if someone was to start a thread about fan-subbers then the occasional mention of bootlegs available domestically is somewhat tolerated or overlooked. That was the way I saw it,,,and I agree with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamen0083 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 A good example - I think there's no one better to ask about various Macross 7 DVD bootlegs than some folks here on this board. Should I be banned or reprimanded for it? No, of course not. But if you were to go and ask them where to buy it, and they reply publicly on the board, then they should be reprimanded. See the difference? I'm all for the discussion. I'm not for publishing bootleg distro links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamen0083 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Go here:www.steroidology.com I am a member there... It is a site completely dedicated to the discussion of the use of ilegal performance enhancing drugs. In America we have free speech, we can discuss whatever we want. Yes, you can, as long as, of course, what you are saying does not impinge another rights in anyway, or damage said person's reputation, but I digress. Talk about it? Fine. Use it? Not fine, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom64ss Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) Go here:www.steroidology.com I am a member there... It is a site completely dedicated to the discussion of the use of ilegal performance enhancing drugs. In America we have free speech, we can discuss whatever we want. Yes, you can, as long as, of course, what you are saying does not impinge another rights in anyway, or damage said person's reputation, but I digress. Talk about it? Fine. Use it? Not fine, right? Exactly. The link to steroidology.com is linking to a site that "discusses" steroids. It's kinda like the "Macrossworld of steroids". Now if you had linked us to a site that sells steroids, you'd probably be in trouble. Edited February 19, 2004 by tom64ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Go here:www.steroidology.com I am a member there... It is a site completely dedicated to the discussion of the use of ilegal performance enhancing drugs. In America we have free speech, we can discuss whatever we want. Yes, you can, as long as, of course, what you are saying does not impinge another rights in anyway, or damage said person's reputation, but I digress. Talk about it? Fine. Use it? Not fine, right? Exactly. The link to steroidology.com is linking to a site that "discusses" steroids. It's kinda like the "Macrossworld of steroids". Now if you had linked us to a site that sells steroids, you'd probably be in trouble. Doesn't matter. Everyone at steroidology knows where to buy the juice. It is just discussed in the dark corners of the board and over IM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom64ss Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Doesn't matter. Everyone at steroidology knows where to buy the juice. It is just discussed in the dark corners of the board and over IM. I assumed they would. I think the rule about bootlegs here is the same. Its tolerated a long as it's in the "dark corners of the board or over IM". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I thought we were on the going by the same rules that fansubbers go by. If it's available domestically(U.S.) then it's a no-no. But if someone was to start a thread about fan-subbers then the occasional mention of bootlegs available domestically is somewhat tolerated or overlooked. I agree--basically, I have no trouble with the fansubber "code" as long it isn't used speciously to suggest that fansubs are technically more legal than other bootlegs. Stamen0083--we actually have had people mention where to get the HK DVDs of M7 & M0, and discussions of the quality of this or that version. I've even seen listings in the forsale/wanted forums. You do know that the only way to watch M7 in English, or on a non-R2 player, is on an HK (bootleg) DVD or a downloaded fansub, don't you? And the same is true of M0, at least for the time being. I was under the impression that stuff like that is fair game. That's why I'd like to know what the rules are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) A good example - I think there's no one better to ask about various Macross 7 DVD bootlegs than some folks here on this board. Should I be banned or reprimanded for it? No, of course not. But if you were to go and ask them where to buy it, and they reply publicly on the board, then they should be reprimanded. See the difference? I'm all for the discussion. I'm not for publishing bootleg distro links. I see the difference in that - that is what you are comfortable with. No offense, Stamen, but that's not what I'm trying to determine here. Me, I don't care whether or not someone tells me which website, links to it, or provides a link to eBay auction either. I don't care if any of us on the board makes his living selling cheap HK dvds in his van down by the river. I simply don't care whether or not it bothers you, or anyone else other than Shawn, Graham, and the mods who run this board. Right now there is a thread in the Movies and TV area about a bootleg version of the Animeigo boxset. It has a link. There is a bootleg toy thread in the Toys area. It has a link. In the past we've discussed everything from Joon's valks to Macross 7 sets by FX and MI. Who are we kidding here? If there is a policy on not posting info about bootlegs, I'd like to know what it is. Because it's evidently a very selective policy. Basically if you catch a mod on a bad day, then it goes away. That's silly. Let's not litter this thread with anti-HG war slogans and everyone's personal opinion on the ethics/morality involved in HK dvd/toy purchasing... let's get some official word here on whether or not the "policy" regarding discussion of bootleg merchandise even exists. I submit that we discuss what we want freely. If we're going to put in place a policy, then I submit that we ban people spouting their freaking personal ethics of bootleg purchases in every thread that remotely goes near the subject. All it does is cause arguments. Let's face it, folks. Much of the Macross merch that is out there isn't legitimate BW product. And it's been that way for a long, long time. Why shouldn't we discuss it anyway? Edited February 19, 2004 by Blaine23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i posted in this post showing them proof that the boot was an animeego site siting proof from another discussion gorup and tellign themto buy ligit and not go for the boots. What do i get? My post deleted. even thoguh I answered his question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 My main concern is that MW not be exposed to any kind of liability for "facilitating" illegal activities. Apparently there's a legal concept of "contributory liability". Here's one discussion. The article provides a hypothetical case in which a Web site contains links to another site containing materials which infringe on someone's copyright. A contributory infringer has been defined in numerous court decisions to be one who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another, often by providing services or equipment that facilitate the direct infringement of the protected work. While the article notes that "there is not yet any caselaw directly addressing the issue of a Web site operator's liability for contributory...copyright infringement", and while other discussions I've found raise the point that there are strong countervailing freedom of speech issues, we all know that litigation is often won by default simply because one side has the money and the other doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 My main concern is that MW not be exposed to any kind of liability for "facilitating" illegal activities. Apparently there's a legal concept of "contributory liability". Here's one discussion. The article provides a hypothetical case in which a Web site contains links to another site containing materials which infringe on someone's copyright.A contributory infringer has been defined in numerous court decisions to be one who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another, often by providing services or equipment that facilitate the direct infringement of the protected work. While the article notes that "there is not yet any caselaw directly addressing the issue of a Web site operator's liability for contributory...copyright infringement", and while other discussions I've found raise the point that there are strong countervailing freedom of speech issues, we all know that litigation is often won by default simply because one side has the money and the other doesn't. buying the official japanese import of macross is a copywrite infringment. think about it. hell buyign yaamto toys is also. you are buying a similar / same product from anothe rsoruce other then the company ho paid for the copywrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Ali Sama, importing stuff for personal use is not copyright infringement. I recently posted about this over in the license debate thread, complete with links to the relevant US Code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Ali Sama, importing stuff for personal use is not copyright infringement. I recently posted about this over in the license debate thread, complete with links to the relevant US Code. what about valkyrie exchange, twin moons, other import shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 They leave them alone because of their weak legal standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 (edited) That would be clearer as "HG leaves the small import shops alone because of HG's weak legal standing." Which is probably true. HG tried to scare the import shops off with emails and cease and desist letters, but they never followed up with any lawsuits. Edited February 20, 2004 by ewilen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 They (HG) leave them (SDF-M retailers like Valkyrie Exchange) alone because of their weak legal standing. That combined with the fact that HG is a poor company and can't afford to sue everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 But they did sue FASA into the ground a decade ago. Playmates was also on board, though, so I don't know who paid most of the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 They (HG) leave them (SDF-M retailers like Valkyrie Exchange) alone because of their weak legal standing. That combined with the fact that HG is a poor company and can't afford to sue everyone. I think HG doesn't go after importers because they don't view them as a threat. Since most of these retailers also sell Robotech products it would be like shooting yourself in the foot to shut them down. HG is a business and all thier doing is protecting what they believe to be thiers. Until I see black and white evidence of what they do and do not have rights to I'll reserve my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinmoons Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 i beleive that noone should pay money for something that was once free to watch on TV... Umm, nothing is free on tv. They shove commercials in between them, remember? And they also controlled the time that it was broadcast. Just because it was broadcast on tv because it was paid for by some commercials does not give you ownership rights to them so you do not have the right to go downloading copyrighted material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estacado06479 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 i beleive that noone should pay money for something that was once free to watch on TV... Umm, nothing is free on tv. They shove commercials in between them, remember? And they also controlled the time that it was broadcast. Just because it was broadcast on tv because it was paid for by some commercials does not give you ownership rights to them so you do not have the right to go downloading copyrighted material. please don't lecture on copyright infringement, let's not forget that you sell japanese only products outside of their intended area of sale, whaddya call that? in other words "Hello Kettle, YOUR'E BLACK!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Estacado06479, legally, you may have a point with your little tu quoque. But not entirely, since copying DVD's is flat out piracy; importing stuff outside of its licensed area isn't. The US legal code does distinguish between the two in certain ways. And morally, you're plain wrong. When people buy bootlegs or download copies, the original creators of the work get no compensation. Importing Yamato toys bears absolutely no resemblence in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Importing Yamato products is like buying the Japanese release DVD sets, not like buying a boot. Which leads to my opinion on the situation. I think that boots should be fair game in cases where either the series/movie is unavailable in english (or subtitled, in the case of series like MS Gundam) any other way, or in the rare cases in which the official importer has done such a horrible job that it becomes important to avaid supporting the product. (For example, Tokyopop's treatment of Initial D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 At this point, there's no need to discuss it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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