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5 hours ago, sqidd said:

Anno was near suicidal when he did the first ending. It shows.

As far as "different" endings..................isn't there the theory that they're two different stories because the same thing keeps happening over and over again? Like The Matrix.

That's the most reasonable theory at this point, the reset occurring at the end of EOE is a full Earth reset.

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3 hours ago, Keith said:

The thing I typed was "EOE" (End Of Evangelion), I have no idea what "ECE" is.

Bleary eyes (I had just woken up). Sorry, I read that wrong.

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On 8/15/2021 at 9:13 AM, Keith said:

Well, I sure as hell want to discuss this.

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Eva TV always put it out there that events were moving too fast, that Seele < Gendo's plans had to be modified to accommodate the excelleration of events, but this film really drove that point home. It truly was to 3.0's disservice that the two films were 8 years apart, but that's all water under the bridge now.

Seeing the depths that Gendo was willing to go through for absolute control in Instrumentality really shook me. Anyone paying attention over the years has probably noticed that I've been a staunch Gendo fan/defender/etc. Now, even I can't defend the depths he's gone to. Weaponizing both Asuka & Rei to break Shinji & manipulate Shinji into becoming another him was daaaaaaaaaark.

And let it be said, he most definitely did weaponize Asuka. The Shikinami Series as I theorized previously (as a thing) was most definitely a mass production version of Asuka made from the remnants of what was left of Asuka after dying in Unit-03. Through some flashbacks we see the Asuka of 3.0 & 3.0 + 1.0 was a clone (body + soul) of the original, though this one was taken in and raised by Kensuke. Finally we can put to rest the theory of theageless pilot "Eva curse."

Rei II was expectedly resident in Eva-01 after Shinji rescued her in 2.0, but Ayanami-09 (I don't know what else to call her) was a trap Gendo left to break Shinji down to his own level. Rigging her to lose her form as soon as she achieved a familiarity and happiness level with Shinji ultimately backfired, but that intent on Gendo's part was so messed up. It's never been a secret that Gendo resented Shinji for stealing Yui's attention, and I always assumed Rei was created from Yui for his own benefit. Now, oh man, now I question that whole concept. Seeing a son seeing himself in his father is pretty common, even a father wanting to live vicariously through a child isn't uncommon. But a father wanting to break his son into the same broken individual (as himself) through that level of setup & manipulation is pretty heavy. Tossing the Shikinami series into mix is an intentional overkill.

Manga Gendo actually has a relatable heart to heart with Shinji where in the light of Seele invading Nerv to take control & Gendo recognizing Shinji was in a better position to progress/take control, assumes that Shinji having gone through these experiences must feel the same way he does, and as such will initiate instrumentality.

Here though we get an older Gendo who has had time to put all of his plans in motion. Who has had time to fully shed his humanity. Who is still ultimately defeated by his son, this time not just through his relationships with others (winning over Rei/Lilith & Adam/Kowaru), but finally his own willful action (Gendo initiates Instrumentality this time using Eva-01 & Rei  Eva-13 & Asuka along with his own artificially created god/angel nature) Shinji jumps head first into Eva Imaginary (Gendo's own fully created God/Lilith rather than using the original like in EoE) and cancels it out.

During their single form contact Shinji finally sees his father for all he is, and Gendo is finally able to see Shinji as carrying on a part of Yui, not just seeing him as everything he hates in himself.

And no, repressing all life into the cores of his various mass produced Eva models was not lost on me. This Gendo eas "not" playing around. He allowed Wille to have the Wunder. He dispatched Seele in 3.0 through no simple luck or accident (he literally was just done with them). He was at all times in control, and only faltered in his pure spite of himself. This Gendo was more Gargoyle than Nemo (Nadia) in that he fundamentaly misunderstood his own nature. Strangely it was Misato who ultimately took up the Nemo role, something that went totally over my head in 3.0. I don't know how or why I didn't see it. I guess I was just hanging on too tightly to TV Misato, or my understanding of her. I always saw Gendo as Nemo & Keel as Gargoyle, It took until last night to finally let go of those images, but wow.

I guess that ultimately makes Rei Neo (Nadia's brother resurrected into a puppet, not "The One"). Excuse me for seemingly jump from topic to topic, or even rambling, but there's just so much to unpack. Did anyone else love Ritsuko going full Elektra & shooting Gendo in the head? When he actually picked his brains up off the floor and put them back I was blown away. I'm still sad that Ritsuko will never get Electra's happy ending, but at least she no longer dies as someone literally used up and tossed away.

And now for the elephant in the room, Mari. Since 2.0 she's always been such a damned mystery. Even here Anno seemed so damned intent on keeping her someone only he truly knew. It was almost frustrating to unravel her mystery, looking to just the manga to unravel her origins & part in the story, but I think maybe I've finally a grasp on why Anno made her so important. Before losing his form Fuyutsuki & Mari have a very interesting conversation, seemingly solidifying a version of Mari's manga origins. They do know each other, they do know each other from Yui's college days (as she refers to him as "Fuyutsuki Sensei"), and Mari is no accidental participant in these events. However, Fuyutsuki calls Mari by an interesting name, one that on the surface evocates one of his trademark biblical references. He calls her "Mary Iacariot", at it's surface a combination if Mary Magdalene & Judas Iscariot (an interesting reference and hint in and of itself if you were to attribute the role of Jesus to Yui), but then on my second viewing (yes, I watched it back to back) something resonated with me hard.

For an understanding of where I'm going here, I'd like you to read this wiki excerpt with the understanding that Hideaki Anno is pretty damned hardcore even among Otaku.

""The spelling of her name is uncertain. In the episode guide she appears as "Marie", in the Japanese series books she is "Mary", Streamline Pictures calls her "Mari", and in episode 24 she signs one of her drawings as "Marry" (though this could simply be that as a four-year-old she doesn't know how to spell her name). Even so, Marie is probably the most accurate spelling, as it is the French one."

This is of course a description of Marie from Nadia. Personality wise, Mari & Marie fit perfectly. Mari's ultimate role in the story, treatment of Shinji (as a pet jokingly) etc line up so damned well. For her prominent role in Nadia, Marie is an archetype that hasn't repeated in other Anno works that I can think of, so of course I missed her here. She treats Shinji like King, and her ending is similar to her winding up with Sanson. Her backstory is still one of inference, but I feel so much better about it now. A rival of Yui's from college, very likely the first proof of concept for Yui's theories, first teproduced clone (human/angel) with a dubbed/transferred soul, likely a sempai/mentor behind Kaji/IPEA/Wille, and ultimately true protector of Shinji/Yui's plan to both propagate & protect humanity.

 

Thank you for sharing all your thoughts. It makes perfect sense to me. Nadia  when I watched it back in the day, always seemed like a Proto NGE to me but I had kind of forgotten making those connections when watchin 3.0+1.0. I'm soon doing my rewatch of the rebuild films and will be paying more attention to these details.

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1 hour ago, Marzan said:

Thank you for sharing all your thoughts. It makes perfect sense to me. Nadia  when I watched it back in the day, always seemed like a Proto NGE to me but I had kind of forgotten making those connections when watchin 3.0+1.0. I'm soon doing my rewatch of the rebuild films and will be paying more attention to these details.

3.0 feels so much more complete in the dual context of both (Nadia & 3.0 + 1.0). I guess now the real question is:

Spoiler

Was Shinji reseting one universe continually, or creating a multiverse linked by the anti-universe. This ultimately effects how many Yui's are out there colonizing new worlds, as this final Yui seemed to sacrifice herself rather than floating out into space. 

At least now I have firm proof that:

Spoiler

Kowaru was a redemption of Gendou (Check our young Gendo+hair+uniform+piano), apparently ending up with Rei/Yui in the end.

 

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Also, a little obvious but the glyphs on the "Golgotha Object" bare a strong resemblance to the Atlantian glyphs on the "Blue Water."

20190113_174129.jpg.76e78247ea419ee6a5acff2f550c5b36.jpg20190113_174225.jpg.cdb051fd2159fd5e5bc62703aae1a6a8.jpg20210823_190338.jpg.73a9ea9cc636e1c0842b5eec33cd0f6f.jpg

Edited by Keith
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He makes a few good points.

Spoiler

I agree a little with the Michael Bay thing. There were some moments where my brain wasn't able to process the action.

Where I agree with his assessment of the ending..............for him. I don't agree on it for me. I think that's one of the great things about Evangelion. It means different things to different people based on their individual life experience. 

 

Edited by sqidd
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6 hours ago, Keith said:

3.0 feels so much more complete in the dual context of both (Nadia & 3.0 + 1.0). I guess now the real question is:

  Reveal hidden contents

Was Shinji reseting one universe continually, or creating a multiverse linked by the anti-universe. This ultimately effects how many Yui's are out there colonizing new worlds, as this final Yui seemed to sacrifice herself rather than floating out into space. 

At least now I have firm proof that:

  Reveal hidden contents

Kowaru was a redemption of Gendou (Check our young Gendo+hair+uniform+piano), apparently ending up with Rei/Yui in the end.

 

Holy smokes @Keith. Just when I think I'm getting a handle on Evangelion you shatter that by taking it 10x deeper. Hopefully after watching them a few more times and reading your stuff I will eventually understand.

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3 hours ago, sqidd said:

I can't find anything about a Blu Ray of 3.0+1. Does anyone know anything?

Nothing anywhere yet, the only recent news is the JP 4k release of 3.3333

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Just now, sqidd said:

Thank you sir.

Does this mean it's a TWE? I can never figure out what I'm looking at. Thanks

Yeah, it is a TWE. I am debating ordering through a proxy or seeing if BBTS opens pre-orders at a reasonable price.

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1 hour ago, General Rasp said:

Yeah, it is a TWE. I am debating ordering through a proxy or seeing if BBTS opens pre-orders at a reasonable price.

I have a buddy in JP that can order me TWE stuff (did it with the VF-1D). I can get you one if you want. Or anyone else for that matter. I think I'll cut it off at 10 though. I don't want to tie over $1000 up until they come in.

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43 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I have a buddy in JP that can order me TWE stuff (did it with the VF-1D). I can get you one if you want. Or anyone else for that matter. I think I'll cut it off at 10 though. I don't want to tie over $1000 up until they come in.

I will PM you.

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I'm starting to play around with my EVA display. I'm having a cubby in one of my office walls filled with a custom Muducase that will be just for EVA stuff. I have to figure out how it's all going to come together though. A big part of that being the RAH Unit 13 and those stupid big spears. I still need to get a hold of a RAH unit  too.

Anyway. I unboxed a few of the Spirits today. I got the set with the shield and the positron cannon. Unfortunately they're made to work with the GenI Spirits. The Unit 00 parts that com with it won't swap over and the shoulder/sight won't clip on to the Unit 01. The shield/cannon kit has also been really cheapened up since it was released. It's gotten smaller and a lot cheaper. The cannon isn't as detailed as I'm guess what would be considered a GenI release was (I watched a review video). That's kind of a bummer. EDIT*** Correction, it looks like there are two of those positron cannon kits.....and I got the wrong one.:crazy:

The Unit 08 with the crazy rams is pretty fun though!

Long way to go on the EVA display. I think I'm going to pull a screen shot from one of the Rebuild movies with maybe NERV HQ and the upside down Tokyo 3 (or something else) and have it made into a big decal for the background. This is all still in the early stages of planning. They're parked here for right now to get a sense of how much room I need, shelves need to go, etc,

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Edited by sqidd
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20 minutes ago, General Rasp said:

I am waiting for the price to drop. They did the same with EVA 02a.

I guess I'll cancel my PO and then do a new one if they do. Would you be so kind as to give me a heads up when the price drops? I'll do likewise.

It's not worth me getting a couple out of JP at this point.

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10 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I guess I'll cancel my PO and then do a new one if they do. Would you be so kind as to give me a heads up when the price drops? I'll do likewise.

It's not worth me getting a couple out of JP at this point.

Will do. I am hoping they lower the price today but it might be a couple of days. I am also watching amazon to see if they put up a pre-order listing. They have the EVA 02a at $120 also.

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2 minutes ago, General Rasp said:

Will do. I am hoping they lower the price today but it might be a couple of days. I am also watching amazon to see if they put up a pre-order listing. They have the EVA 02a at $120 also.

If you could give me a head up on that too (Amazon) it would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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8 hours ago, ValkAddict said:

So, I am considering getting a couple of EVAs for the collection (for a not too crazy price), are the Bandai Robot Spirits versions the best option? TIA.

They're good for thr price. But I would take a look at the ThreeZero stuff. Nicer, bigger and not a lot more money.

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Rebuild 1.11 and 2.22 were really good, I liked them a lot.  Rewatched both a few days ago.

3.33 started getting a little nuts and 3.0+1.0 IMO got totally whack.  I actually rewatched 3.33 last night, I know 14 years passed, but it just didn't feel like Eva to me.  Even Misato in the goggles just felt weird.  How did they (NERV and WILLE) have the manpower (or machine power) to construct everything they did in it?  The Lillith CG was (again IMO) just bad.  Like 20 years ago college student bad.   Unfinished and amateurish.  And the souls being represented by full sized Evas just...huh? 

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2 hours ago, easnoddy said:

Rebuild 1.11 and 2.22 were really good, I liked them a lot.  Rewatched both a few days ago.

3.33 started getting a little nuts and 3.0+1.0 IMO got totally whack.  I actually rewatched 3.33 last night, I know 14 years passed, but it just didn't feel like Eva to me.  Even Misato in the goggles just felt weird.  How did they (NERV and WILLE) have the manpower (or machine power) to construct everything they did in it?  The Lillith CG was (again IMO) just bad.  Like 20 years ago college student bad.   Unfinished and amateurish.  And the souls being represented by full sized Evas just...huh? 

WATCH NADIA!

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