Most fool-proof black spray-paint?

[David Hingtgen]

Any suggestions for a black spray-paint that's hard to screw up? I'd like it fairly glossy (but not TOO glossy), but almost anything that's not dead-flat will do. (glossy is evil IMHO, the glossier it is the harder it is to go on smooth without runs).

I've considered everything from Tamiya to Krylon fusion, but I can't really do a test run as it's not like I have any spare nosecones or tailfins to experiment on, and every surface is different. And I'd really rather not screw up a $100 jet.

[DarkReaper]

To get a real glossy finish don't forget to polish and wax the clear coat.

[len_d69]

Any suggestions for a black spray-paint that's hard to screw up? I'd like it fairly glossy (but not TOO glossy), but almost anything that's not dead-flat will do. (glossy is evil IMHO, the glossier it is the harder it is to go on smooth without runs).

I've considered everything from Tamiya to Krylon fusion, but I can't really do a test run as it's not like I have any spare nosecones or tailfins to experiment on, and every surface is different. And I'd really rather not screw up a $100 jet.

I've always liked Tamiya.

[David Hingtgen]

I like Tamiya too generally, and their silver is the best spray-paint ever, but my last gloss black spray-can session with Tamiya didn't go very well. (though I was going for a super-gloss finish then and probably sprayed too heavily)

[nickster]

Hello David,

you may want to try Gunze Sangyo Spray. Their flat black is not dead flat, but it may have the sheen you want.

If you want a fine spray from any canned paints without ruining it, try to spray the model about 8inches away from the can and in faster motion.

It will be like misting the model with paint. Press the nozzle before the paint touches the model and move you hand over the model but make sure you depress the nozzle after the paint spray is out of the model.

You can go to tamiya site for the video, its in their tips and tricks corner.

Hope this helps.

Nick

[SchizophrenicMC]

I use Testor's or Model Master (Same brand...) usually, just out of availability and the fact that if you do it right, you can get a good semi-gloss. Best thing to do is find a paint that isn't flat black (You may be able to find gloss black or semi-gloss black in Testor's) and go from there, as Nick said, about 8 inches from the surface.

[Chas]

If you use a good primer I've found that Automotive Sprays give awesome results for Gloss finishes. PLus the spray nozzles (At least hear in Canada) are designed so that the paint is ejected in a fan-shaped (read triangle) pattern. To get an idea of what I mean imagine cutting a triangle (equalateral) from a sheet of paper and holding it up to the nozzle of the spray can so that the apex is at the exit point for the paint and the base of the triangle is parallel to the can. This makes application VERRY SMOOTH! I use a basic automotive primer as these paint tend to be on the HOT side. This protects the plastic from any dissolving that may otherwise occur. It's priced a little cheaper than Tamiya sprays as well, (At least over here).

[SchizophrenicMC]

If you use a good primer I've found that Automotive Sprays give awesome results for Gloss finishes. PLus the spray nozzles (At least hear in Canada) are designed so that the paint is ejected in a fan-shaped (read triangle) pattern. To get an idea of what I mean imagine cutting a triangle (equalateral) from a sheet of paper and holding it up to the nozzle of the spray can so that the apex is at the exit point for the paint and the base of the triangle is parallel to the can. This makes application VERRY SMOOTH! I use a basic automotive primer as these paint tend to be on the HOT side. This protects the plastic from any dissolving that may otherwise occur. It's priced a little cheaper than Tamiya sprays as well, (At least over here).

I just wonder what effect an automotive paint will have on a plamo...

[Chas]

I just wonder what effect an automotive paint will have on a plamo...

Duhh! That's why you use a GOOD PRIMER! Can you not read? if you spray it on a model with no primer it will most likely melt the styrene. But if you prime the model first there's nothing to worry about. Was this point not clear in my last post? I swear talk about a uselss post. Must you unthinkingly vomitt your opinion everywhere? Try reading the posts in the thread then thinking about what has been written before you decide to "contribute" (and I use that term ironically) whatever comes into you haed. Automotive scale modelers have been using the stuff for years!

GOD!

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

Krylon Fusion Gloss Black is pretty nice. It dries in 15 minutes and fully in one hr. It's pretty cheap for the amount you pay in ratio to Testors, Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo. You can grab a bottle for $5.00 at Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, etc.

If you're looking for anything other than a total flat or not completely gloss finish... Krylon also has a Satin finish (not matte) in their Fusion line, but I've never worked with it.

I've worked with their Fusion Flat and Fusion Gloss. Both turn out pretty well.

[David Hingtgen]

My main concern is really "covering in one coat, without drips/runs". Black paint is in my experience, less opaque than you'd think.

[Chas]

My main concern is really "covering in one coat, without drips/runs". Black paint is in my experience, less opaque than you'd think.

Why one coat?

Usually for a glossy finish I would do a mist coat of the entire area first. This provides good bite for the next application. After that has set, usually about 15-20 min, I then apply the heavier "wet" coat. For this second coat I hold the can about 2-3 inches away from the surface of the model and spray in quick short passes while constantly turning the model.

[Skull-1]

Rustoleum.

I'm telling ya', that stuff rocks.

[David Hingtgen]

Why one coat? Because despite trying numerous times, I have never been successful at the "mist coat" thing. Mist coats are rough, and if I have a mist coat applied, the final coat never look good, due to the bumpiness/roughness of that first layer. I can do "mutiple non-opaque layers" when brush painting if I'm lucky and careful, but never spraying.

[Chas]

Why one coat? Because despite trying numerous times, I have never been successful at the "mist coat" thing. Mist coats are rough, and if I have a mist coat applied, the final coat never look good, due to the bumpiness/roughness of that first layer. I can do "mutiple non-opaque layers" when brush painting if I'm lucky and careful, but never spraying.

Well here's a good video demonstration of the technique that I use. It's courtesy of the floks over at PLAMO Gloss Spray Tutorial Hope that it helps. Maybe your mist coat is too Heavy?

P.S.

Ialso place the can in a coffe cup full of just boiled water for a few minutes before I use it. Warming it up helps it atomize.

EDIT= typos

Edited July 19, 2009 by Chas

[David Hingtgen]

That video is quite different from how I normally spray---many quick little bursts. Doesn't that lead to lots of dry overspray flecks on the "just painted" adjacent areas? So many starts and stops---seems it'd be hard to start and stop the spray entirely off the model, when the sprayed area of each burst is so small.

This is Tamiya's video, one of the few others I've seen for gloss---and is pretty much how I do it. "Long strokes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1HdmTH_tkE

[Chas]

That video is quite different from how I normally spray---many quick little bursts. Doesn't that lead to lots of dry overspray flecks on the "just painted" adjacent areas? So many starts and stops---seems it'd be hard to start and stop the spray entirely off the model, when the sprayed area of each burst is so small.

This is Tamiya's video, one of the few others I've seen for gloss---and is pretty much how I do it. "Long strokes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1HdmTH_tkE

Well there is a much greater chance for drips to form with the long slow strokes that is for sure, and your personal expeience seems to bare that out.

If you notice there is no "mist coat" in the Tamiya vid. and the can is held much further away. In the "short burst" technique the "mist coat" gives bite for the "wet coat" and helps to keep it from running and by holding the can only 2-3 inches from the surface the paint stays quite wet so any overspray is absorbed into the "wet coat". That is the only way I can explain it.

What I do know is the "short burst" technique works for me. I'd suggest trying it out on some scrap styrene and see what happens.

[maxwinamp]

Well here's a good video demonstration of the technique that I use. It's courtesy of the floks over at PLAMO Gloss Spray Tutorial Hope that it helps. Maybe your mist coat is too Heavy?

P.S.

Ialso place the can in a coffe cup full of just boiled water for a few minutes before I use it. Warming it up helps it atomize.

EDIT= typos

Hi,

I am the dude that did the video tutorial

I have been using Tamiya Spray Can for my colours all the time and only do the top coat using Gunze Spray Can as I find Gunze coatings are the toughest of the lot.

Here's another write up for glossing and to see the various layers:

http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthread.php?tid=5033

And the example:

http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthrea...5077&page=2

While doing the mist coat, I just generally spray at a distance so that the paint sparesly lands on the kit.

After that the wet coat is spray at a closer distance as shown in the video.

Hope the above helps.

Regards

Max

[SchizophrenicMC]

Duhh! That's why you use a GOOD PRIMER! Can you not read? if you spray it on a model with no primer it will most likely melt the styrene. But if you prime the model first there's nothing to worry about. Was this point not clear in my last post? I swear talk about a uselss post. Must you unthinkingly vomitt your opinion everywhere? Try reading the posts in the thread then thinking about what has been written before you decide to "contribute" (and I use that term ironically) whatever comes into you haed. Automotive scale modelers have been using the stuff for years!

GOD!

No need to be a dick.

I was merely pointing out concern for the method.

I've seen primers that eat styrene before, thank you. And I've seen paints that eat primer. I don't know how I'm supposed to trust or advocate a method that uses paint or primer designed to bond to metallic surfaces if I can't verify it works.

Jeez, man. I don't even know you! That was further reason for my concern, because I don't recall ever reading anything of yours on a topic such as this, let alone to any fruit.

If you wanna talk any more on this, PM me. Don't wanna piss off the mods again.

[Chas]

Hi,

I am the dude that did the video tutorial smile.gif ...

Hope the above helps.

Thanks Max.

So you don't polish the wet coat before you spray the clear coat? Hmmm. . . maybe I can save myself some work in the future.

This might not be the direction that David is going 'cus he is doing an aircraft kit, but for anyone who wants a high gloss finish I think it is a great help.

Oh, and SchizophrenicMC, that's two posts with absolutely no contribution to the thread. You may not have encountered me before but you can be sure that when I do post I make damned sure my post contributes to the conversation. Perhaps you would have less run ins with the Mods if you did the same.

'nuff said.

EDIT = TYPO and rephrasing.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Chas

[SchizophrenicMC]

Thanks Max.

So you don't polish the wet coat before you spray the clear coat? Hmmm. . . maybe I can save myself some work in the future.

This might not be the direction that David is going 'cus he is doing an aircraft kit, but for anyone who wants a high gloss finish I think it is a great help.

Oh, and SchizophrenicMC, that's two posts with absolutely no contribution to the thread. You may not have encountered me before but you can be sure that when I do post I make damned sure my post contributes to the conversation. Perhaps you would have less run ins with the Mods if you did the same.

'nuff said.

EDIT = TYPO and rephrasing.

What of you? You're the first one to start bitching about what I said.

Now, my post was EXPRESSING CONCERN about a method. That IS contribution. It's giving a second opinion on the matter. Don't get so offended, man. I was just giving my 2 cents. Looks like the other buck o' three's gonna get paid out here, too.

Do not insult my thought process. I haven't done so to you, so I haven't warranted it to me.

MOVING ON

I seriously think if you practice a bit with mist-coating, you'll really open a new world of possibilities for paint. I'm just givin' advice based on my experience, but it's worked for me in the past.

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

My main concern is really "covering in one coat, without drips/runs". Black paint is in my experience, less opaque than you'd think.

I just got back from my vacation at the Bahamas. Haven't been on to follow up with much.

I apologize if my previous post was too superficial for your focus of the topic.

If that's your take from my previous response then all I can say is that since you've only considered it, why don't you try it on some scape styrene? The Krylon fusion black gloss can and does cover in one coat [edit] without runs [/edit]. You never stated in your original post that was what you were looking for from a can of black spray paint.

If you're looking for a really nice finish/cover I could recommend Alclad lacquer, however that would require an airbrush, take a good day or two to fully dry and would require a pretty pristine/dustless environment.

Edited July 23, 2009 by PsYcHoDyNaMiX

[anime52k8]

Oh, and SchizophrenicMC, that's two posts with absolutely no contribution to the thread. You may not have encountered me before but you can be sure that when I do post I make damned sure my post contributes to the conversation. Perhaps you would have less run ins with the Mods if you did the same.

'nuff said.

I'm going to agree with schizo, you're coming off as quite the ass. He raised a completely valid concern about your sugesstion, and you're directly attacking him and insulting his intelligence. very mature.

And if we're talking about posts that contribute, I don't see how suggesting automotive paint has anything to do with this topic. The thread is about easy to use black paint that's only somewhat glossy. I've tried automotive paint before, it is anything but easy to work with and not worth using unless you're going for a glass smooth finish which isn't what the OP is going for.

and back to paint, I agree about the mist coating thing. Personally though, I prefer using slightly longer strokes. I tend to start with long, fast moving passes all going in the same direction with the can 6-8 inches from the model and perpendicular at all times. I usually do 2~3 of these mist coats with 10-15 minutes between each coat. then let the model dry for several hours before doing a wet coat.

basically each mist coat does the same amount of coverage as the technique maxwinamp's vid, but instead of doing a bunch of quick short burst, I prefer long strokes covering more area with each pass. I find I get more even coverage that way, but that's just me.

[David Hingtgen]

I plan to try some Tamiya TS-14 with various techniques today, will report back.

[Skull-1]

Rustoleum.

Rustoleum.

Rustoluem.

Try it out. Will cost you five bucks and a junked part.

I did a midnight black Valk that I gave to a friend using Rustoleum and it came out so unbelievably bada** I couldn't believe it. Black paint is hateful. But that simple rattle can... Woo!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Awaiting your results, David.

[David Hingtgen]

Just got done. Overall--inconsistent. Some parts dried quickly to a very gloss finish with only a single light (yet opaque) coat. Some parts with 2 quite wet coats never got much beyond semi-gloss. I think it's more of a raw atomization thing than anything--droplets are too big.

Generally---applying over bare plastic leads to a thinner and smoother finish, than applying over the factory glossy paint.

I'm reluctant to re-do the nose cone, I plan to let it dry for a LONG time, then see how the tailfins match. I want the nose cone and tailfins to match, so if the tailfins (which have a factory finish much like the nosecone) turn out the same way as the nosecone did, I'll leave the nosecone as-is. But if the tailfins turn out very glossy for some reason, then I'll have to try another coat on the nosecone.

I'd like ALL the black parts to have an identical finish, but if I must I'll have some parts semi-gloss and some really glossy---all I demand is that the nose and tail match in the end. Tailfins aren't ready to be painted yet--have some cutting to do. But when they are ready, I'm switching to my brand-new can, for max pressure.

[Chas]

I think it's more of a raw atomization thing than anything--droplets are too big.

Are you warming the can up int hot water before you spray? That usually helps atomize the paint.

[David Hingtgen]

Today I just let them sit in the sun to warm up a bit. In my experience, how full the can is has a greater effect than heating up the paint. Or maybe people heat them up a lot more than I do.

[Chas]

Today I just let them sit in the sun to warm up a bit. In my experience, how full the can is has a greater effect than heating up the paint. Or maybe people heat them up a lot more than I do.

Well I 've never used a thermometer so I couldn't say how hot the can is when I spray, but as I've said I usually boil some water, pour it into a container, and then place the paint can in it for about 3-5 min. Usually I end up having to use a glove or a rag for a bit when I first tale the can out 'cus it's quite hot.

[David Hingtgen]

Definitely far hotter than I go. I go "warm" at most usually.

[Skull-1]

The simple solution is best my friend.

[David Hingtgen]

I've been heating up my spray can more and the results have been more consistent, so I'm happy. However, the last part I sprayed came out funny on one side (I knew it was going to be the last bit of paint that can had--shouldn't have risked it---I put on too much/too wet as I had to get in real close for the last pass or two). Small areas dried super-duper glossy as a result. It literally looks wet. I waited 6 hours and used a hair-dryer on it for a while, and it still looks like it was sprayed 30 secs ago. But I risked touching it--it's dry there.

So---should I just add another thin coat on top, or sand it down first? In my experience, gloss paint is even more dependent upon the previous layers than other paints---so if I add another coat, won't the new coat also look "glossier" in those same spots, due to having such a smooth underlying coat? Or, since the new coat will be less glossy inherently, will it kind of flatten everything out? I'll have to wait a while before I can sand---gloss paint takes a while to REALLY dry, and it just gunks up if you try to sand it before it's REALLY dry. Again--my goal is not to achieve a certain level of gloss, just that everything looks even.

(I don't have much experience with gloss---military ships and planes pretty much only ever call for lots of shades of dull grey)

[David Hingtgen]

Answering my own question: Another coat did repeat the last one---shiny spots in the same areas. I wonder if the plastic is "different" on that piece---it sliced off VERY easily with an Xacto. Almost peeled off. So I sliced/sanded off most of it. Will let it dry/harden (lacquer and enamels soften the plastic a bit) then do a final sanding and spray again tomorrow.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, keep it up.

The only gloss I ever use is Gloss Light Blue - for Star Wars engines.