jenius Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Grace says "we will accomplish something the protoculture could not in 500,000 years" so she isn't protoculture or she would say "we will finally accomplish what we've been working on for 500,000 years." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Grace says "we will accomplish something the protoculture could not in 500,000 years" so she isn't protoculture or she would say "we will finally accomplish what we've been working on for 500,000 years." However this remark (assuming Grace tells the truth) implies that the PC are still active. I was under the impression that they were pretty much destroyed 500,000 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ork_dreadnought Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Grace says "we will accomplish something the protoculture could not in 500,000 years" so she isn't protoculture or she would say "we will finally accomplish what we've been working on for 500,000 years." I would warn against putting too faith into a single out of context sentance. Issues of translation come into play, and we can't take any offhand comment by a character known for being deceitful at face value. Saying that she cannot be a member of the protoculture just because she refers to them in those terms is faulty. If I said I would acheive something that English could not acheive in 100 years, it doesn't mean I'm not english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 A thought just struck me, if Grace and co are the protoculture in someway, is that getting rather close to religious metaphor? Consider this, if the prorotculture is indeed the creator of all intelligent species we've seen in the series (and conceviably the Vajra too), this makes them in effect, gods. Given Shoji Kawamori's spiritalist tendancies, it wouldn't surprise me if he'd go down this route, although hopefully not in the same very obvious way as Evangelion. In this light, what is Grace? Her actions could be compared to a fallen angel, with all the manipulation, temptation and large scale destruction. However, those are also very common traits of supposidly benevolent deities. Consider what Zeus and his kin got up to in the old greek pantheon, and what God, note capital G, did in the old testiment. Given how mythical Macross Zero was, I'm starting to wonder if Shoji was laying the foundations for some big reveal in Frontier. I hope I'm wrong though. If this was BSG with the reverence of the Colonials to the lords of Kobol yeah. Macross has portrayed the Protoculture as humans. Humans who often made mistakes. As Max said "Are these really humanity's ancestors, so foolish." Heck if Earther's became a interstellar threat the Birdman had orders to destroy us. Macross Frontier isn't about the Protoculture. Remember what Richard called everybody... The children of the Protoculture. That includes humans, Zentradi, Zolans and whatever seeded races are out there. Technically speaking the Suprvision Army too are children of the Protoculture too. Now Grace and Galaxy Anonymous mentioned they will achieve something the dream the Protoculture could not do. What do we know of the Protoculture according to the writings on Lux? They were the first civilization to create culture. They didn't say they were the only intelligent species or the oldest. The oldest living creature in the galaxy is the White Space Whale. Like the Space Whale the Vajra can naturally fold. Protoculture do that with technology. In fact exploiting a natural occuring lifeform has been touched on Macross Dynamite 7. Space Whales make great fold engine components that is why they are sought after by criminal elements. We know that the Protoculture settled on two areas of their planet. Becoming their ethnic groups. Eventually venturing out into space then being split into two factions warring on each other spreading their conflict. Creating the Zentradi then it escalates leading to the Protodevlin and the SA. Since there is a Macross Zero connection and the children of the protoculture expanding to unknown teritories like the Vajra's. I think it comes back to the Birdman and Mayan warning that the Kadun should not spread. Kadun could mean the tendency of humanity for violence. What are Grace and company are doing? They want to spread the hate. From the Mayan legend is that the Birdman severed his head as he did not want to exterminate humanity. Now the Birdman itself is an AI. Some what benevolent from the Mayan description. Grace and company are not benevolent AI with their manipulations. We didn't know why the Protoculture had their civil war to begin with. I bet it had something to do with seeding worlds species that will evolve like them. When you think about it they did not have contact with any species that are like them. It is also interesting to note that the Vajra was discovered the same year the Sharon Apple incident happened. So is it a toaster plan to see if the experiments deserve to exist? Maybe Since there is an increasing interaction between the Protoculture's children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I would warn against putting too faith into a single out of context sentance. Issues of translation come into play, and we can't take any offhand comment by a character known for being deceitful at face value. Saying that she cannot be a member of the protoculture just because she refers to them in those terms is faulty. If I said I would acheive something that English could not acheive in 100 years, it doesn't mean I'm not english. While it makes sense to say "Don't trust a deceitful character", the line she says is directed toward one of the other members of Galaxy Anonymous. Essentially she'd have to be lying to herself which doesn't make any sense (unless we're given reason to believe at some point she has self-esteem issues or a history of mental illness... and while she is clearly hellbent on a cause I don't see either surfacing in her character). Also, you're wrong about your quote. If you were to say "I will accomplish something the English could not achieve" it does indeed mean that you are not English. The only loophole would be that you could have potentially identified yourself with the English at some point and have since separated from them (like you may now identify yourself as an American or you could have been part of a separatist movement) but it absolutely does mean that you currently do not identify yourself as English. Look at it this way, we have one quote that says she's not Protoculture and no evidence that suggests she is. Until anything further, I think it'd be an odd assumption that Galaxy Anonymous is Protoculture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ork_dreadnought Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 While it makes sense to say "Don't trust a deceitful character", the line she says is directed toward one of the other members of Galaxy Anonymous. Essentially she'd have to be lying to herself which doesn't make any sense (unless we're given reason to believe at some point she has self-esteem issues or a history of mental illness... and while she is clearly hellbent on a cause I don't see either surfacing in her character). Also, you're wrong about your quote. If you were to say "I will accomplish something the English could not achieve" it does indeed mean that you are not English. The only loophole would be that you could have potentially identified yourself with the English at some point and have since separated from them (like you may now identify yourself as an American or you could have been part of a separatist movement) but it absolutely does mean that you currently do not identify yourself as English. Look at it this way, we have one quote that says she's not Protoculture and no evidence that suggests she is. Until anything further, I think it'd be an odd assumption that Galaxy Anonymous is Protoculture. You're sorta making my argumement for me there. All that line does is establish that she will do something that the protoculture does did or does not. That does not mean she is inherently seperate, all it means is that context she's highlighting a difference. I'd also like to reiterate that translation issues make this sort of nitpicking pointless. Unless someone on the board with a good grasp of japanese weighs in on this, we're still stuck with using fansubs, which tend to disagree on things like this. It may be simpler to wait for Grace to reveal her plan and origins, rather than quibble over grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) We didn't know why the Protoculture had their civil war to begin with. AFAIK, according to the Macross Compendium the Protoculture Schism Wars were the result of a Stellar Republic that spread too far too fast... Exactly what has happened to the Zentradi/Human hegemony... revolt after revolt after revolt since Space War I and the start of the Global Colonization Program... Edited August 18, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) Since Kronnang Dunn asked me topost this old theory of mine. "Bilrer according to Luca made a killing in the transport escort business. As seen in Macross Dynamite 7 wherever man goes there will always be crooks. Algus Selzer for example a former technician in Bodolzaa's fleet founded General Galaxy, a sucessful manufacturer of Valkyries such as the VF-4 Lightning III, VF-17, VF-171, VF-22. Some first gen cultured Zentradi like these two prospered in the capitalistic system. Early on I speculated that General Galaxy funded Macross Galaxy considering the features of the VF-27. Stealth and perhaps Brain Direct Interface for cybernetically enhanced pilots. Who knows may be old Algus is one of those voices in Grace's head." Can I know the source of that since I failed to find one in the compendium. http://macross.anime.net/characters/s/selzaa_algus/ Algus Selzer Zentradi technician/designer Algus Selzer was a former technician in the Boddole Zer fleet during Space War I. After earning doctorates in flight and bio-electronic engineering, he was invited to be the chief project advisor of General Galaxy at its founding in 2017. He has since contributed to the design of the VF-9 Cutlass, took responsibility for the design of the VF-17 Nightmare, and headed the YF-21 design team. Gender Male Lineage Zentradi Occupation Technician, chief project advisor, design team head Affiliation Zentradi, General Galaxy Project Team Super Nova, YF-21 Team http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macropedia/mac...ia-index.html#a General Galaxy An aerospace design and manufacturing company founded 2017. Former Bodol Zer Main Fleet technician Algus Selzer had just earned his doctorate in flight and bio-electronic engineering when he was invited to be the chief project advisor at General Galaxy's founding. General Galaxy produced numerous variable fighter designs during the early years (including the VF-14 Vampire along with Messer, a fighter now infamous for a role in the Protodeviln War) but is most famous for building the VF-17 Nightmare heavy variable fighter. In the 2030s, General Galaxy was one of two demonstration/validation phase contractors to participate in the Project Super Nova Advanced Variable Fighter (AVF) competition. Unfortunately General Galaxy's YF-21 variable fighter lost in the Project Super Nova AVF, though debate continues about the significant impact the Sharon Apple Incident had upon the AVF competition. Despite these setbacks, the YF-21 would give birth to the VF-22 Sturmvogel II special operations fighter and General Galaxy would be awarded the coveted main variable fighter contract to the New United Nations Spacy with their redesigned VF-171 variable fighter/bomber (in active service as of 2059). Now could this old man Zentradi that specializes on VF stealth be one of Grace's cohorts? The BDI and BMI were Guld Bowman's brainchild but he's uh well dead. General Galaxy likely has the patents to it. Also Brera is a Zentradi or half Zentradi correction quarter Zentradi. A hybrid like Guld. Edited August 18, 2008 by RedWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) Grace O'Connor = Galaxy Omni Computer???? Edited August 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Grace O'Connor = Galaxy Omni Computer Ok, you started it: -> Gilliam On a Can -> Galaxy Of Conspiracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Geeks Overanalyzing Compulsively...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I think that they are anonymous from a galaxy network imageboard. Once they heard that Frontier didn't allow implants, they decided to troll the living poo out of it. Basically they're just doing it for the lulz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Geeks Overanalyzing Compulsively...? Gubaba Overcriticizing Compulsively? (Just kidding...) I think that they are anonymous from a galaxy network imageboard. Once they heard that Frontier didn't allow implants, they decided to troll the living poo out of it. Basically they're just doing it for the lulz. I already read something like that in Galachan, err... I mean 4chan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Gubaba Overcriticizing Compulsively? (Just kidding...) That's right...I'm part of the conspiracy, baby! SUBMIT OR DIE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Gubaba Overcriticizing Compulsively? (Just kidding...) Damn, beat me to it! I was going to say Gubaba Over Compensates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Geeks Overanalyzing Compulsively...? Now that's something that hasn't been stated enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 sharky: "Hi, I'm sharky, and I'm a Galaxy addict." everyone: "Hi, sharky" sharky: "I'm having a hard time getting through step 1: admitting I am powerless over galaxies - that my life has become unmanageable" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) Finally Animedia has revealed the secret... Galaxy anonymous is the leading staff of Macross Galaxy. Although the macross-galaxy colony-ship was supposed to have been destroyed totally, they (high-class leaders) hid IT in a safe place and have been manipulating Grace and the events affecting Frontier since. They are the puppetters who are backing up the experiment of Grace. Since it is a party that does not mind to sacrifice even their human comrades at Macross Frontier for the success of the experiment, they are an evil worse than Grace. Their last purpose is still unknown. Edited September 10, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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