Got my 1st 1/48 Valk today

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

drifand yeah I don't like the massive size of them since it takes away the perfect transformation from the hands being allowed to retract.

This is a sacrifice of no room left in the sleeve. But to be fair the cartoon cheats whenever the robot mode is shown with blocky fists and slightly exaggerated proportions. Would the hands look that big if it was a non-deforming cg model? At what point can we blame the toy maker and not the lineart or anime for having parts deform? Where do decide which is the more important thing: anime accuracy, lineart accuracy, loyalty to the real world. Just because an anime is real robot, doesn't mean it won't have unrealistic proportions depending on what mode it is drawn as in the anime or lineart. Go look at the lineart in design works and see how stubby and fat the nose of the battroid mode. Then go look at the nose of the valk when drawn in fighter mode. Which one is the "real life" proportions? The fighter mode or the battroid mode? As a toy that has three modes you have to make some compromises don't you?

I have never been a fan of yamato hands to be honest. If bandai could make a 1/48 vf-1 and it turned out much better than the yamato with better hands, more details, was perfect transformation, excellent posability, and made up of better materials I would be a fanboy of that too and might even sell off some of the yamatos. (I want to own the best thing) But all we have are the chunky munky and macross 7 toys they did. So recommending old stuff only on the basis that it was made to be durable and nothing more would be silly. People care about what the best there is now.

Edited April 25, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Hiriyu]

...Adding diecast wouldn't have made it more playable to me since it just means paint chipping...

...So it's not wise to just generalise and say ALL plastic itself is to blame.

Nor is it wise to generalize and say ALL diecast is problematic either. Notice any double-standard in your argument there?

Other manufacturers do seem quite capable of using diecast without widespread cosmetic chipping problems, as has been previously pointed out with BoB's SOC references. The SOC Gunbuster really is a sterling example of how to create/engineer an insanely complex transforming mechanism, using painted diecast/diecast or diecast/plastic joints, which is not prone to chipping. If in doubt, check out the transforming feet that come with the Gunbuster

[promethuem5]

I must admit, but while I hate die-cast, I have been impressed with how the paint on my SOC Eva hasn't chipped... unfortunately, if you look at the swing bar and landing gear doors on the 1/48 and the legs on the 1/60, Yamato does not have the same miracle chip-free diecast the larger companies do...

[eugimon]

I must admit, but while I hate die-cast, I have been impressed with how the paint on my SOC Eva hasn't chipped... unfortunately, if you look at the swing bar and landing gear doors on the 1/48 and the legs on the 1/60, Yamato does not have the same miracle chip-free diecast the larger companies do...

bah, I have soc evas (well, had) and they all had chipping. Heck, the booklet that comes with the asuka's eva shows a unit with chipped paint.

let's not make up stories here.

[thegunny]

None of my 1/60's have chips on the die cast parts but then again the toys I play with are a lot bigger, faster and more expensive than plastic planes

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

One guy says only yamato toys have the chipping. The other says I have had none on my 1/60 chip. Still I am more a fan of a toy with diecast only on bits that are needed. If the toy is durable whether it be diecast or strong plastic, that end result of being able to last is what is important to me.

There is just something about plastic I like: how it can kinda flex and stretch with 100% guarantee of no chipping. The bigger and heavier a toy is, the less I start to care about weight. I do agree though that some of the scraping together of plastic (like the collar piece on the back of the 1/48 which has to bend in and be held together by two bumps) is going to show signs of wear over time. But it only goes back to the point of: If the fast pack wasn't so heavy, maybe that problem wouldn't be there. Overall when the fast pack are mounted on the valks back, you can't deny more stress is going to be put on the hip joints of the valk in robot mode and maybe loosen more easily over time with the extra weight.

People who think I'm attacking diecast are missing the point: it's not whether its diecast or plastic but the overall result of whether the toy is durable to me. Plastic can be durable. Diecast can be durable. Therefore it's stupid to say "because it is light and feels cheap...." and then make a comment about how hard or tough the material is while ignoring other things like: can it hold itself together and pose easily? If yes, then I am happy. Who cares what it feels like if it is actually holding together? (and this is why I'm puzzled about people saying the 1/48 is so delicate. It's not that I don't believe you, when you say that yours feel like they are breaking apart but more that I haven't had that experience yet so far as I expected to get a toy aimed at people who wouldn't necessarily play with it like a kid)

I think that a toy with less weight and some balljointed hips may be able to do a more wide pose than the same toy with the same joints but is heavier. (doesn't matter if the latter is diecast or anything) It's not just about balance but the stress on the hip joints. A top heavy robot made of heavy materials will loosen its hips faster than the same toy which is generally lighter because of less stress from the lighter body. Therefore I prefer less diecast on larger toys if possible. The fast pack on the 1/48 which is heavy is only going to put more stress on the hinge than needed. If it had been lighter maybe it would be less scary and overall less stressful on the hinge and those two little bumps that hold the whole thing up? My point: Weight doesn't necessarily = durability. Over time the heavy fast pack will wear out the thing faster than a lighter version of that fast pack made of lighter materials but equal durability, since the lessened weight eases some of the burden on the hinge.

My reason for making that point was just to respond to the collectors who hate big things that feel light. (and therefore cheap to them. You know that feeling of holding this big thing in your hands and it's like full of air or something?)

I'm not so much anti-diecast as I am pro-plastic. Being pro-plastic doesn't mean I am automatically anti-diecast. Understand what I am saying? I prefer plastic over diecast but not against its use. An example is how I like the playability of the alternators over the binaltechs because they are cheap and light. Maybe the diecast BT actually displays better because it looks more expensive, sure. Something that I agree is true and if I were a collector the appearance is something I care a lot about. But I don't WORRY when I touch the alts and can even throw them around. I can hold them, pose them, scratch them. And if it falls off my desk, so what? It's so light anyway. I can't say the same about the 1/72 yf-21. It just feel dangerous to pose or have it knock on something. The extra weight means it will crash with a heavy thud breaking off the fine features like the head laser. So in that instance: less weight, lighter overall toy might = less of a crash, less hard thud, and less stress on the hip joints which must bear the weight of the legs which are heavy. (so less posability for you when these joint get loose over time and cause floppy limbs)

Edited April 25, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beware of Blast]

One guy says only yamato toys have the chipping. The other says I have had none on my 1/60 chip. Still I am more a fan of a toy with diecast only on bits that are needed. If the toy is durable whether it be diecast or strong plastic, that end result of being able to last is what is important to me.

There is just something about plastic I like: how it can kinda flex and stretch with 100% guarantee of no chipping. The bigger and heavier a toy is, the less I start to care about weight. I do agree though that some of the scraping together of plastic (like the collar piece on the back of the 1/48 which has to bend in and be held together by two bumps) is going to show signs of wear over time. But it only goes back to the point of: If the fast pack wasn't so heavy, maybe that problem wouldn't be there. Overall when the fast pack are mounted on the valks back, you can't deny more stress is going to be put on the hip joints of the valk in robot mode and maybe loosen more easily over time with the extra weight.

People who think I'm attacking diecast are missing the point: it's not whether its diecast or plastic but the overall result of whether the toy is durable to me. Plastic can be durable. Diecast can be durable. Therefore it's stupid to say "because it is light and feels cheap...." and then make a comment about how hard or tough the material is while ignoring other things like: can it hold itself together and pose easily? If yes, then I am happy. Who cares what it feels like if it is actually holding together? (and this is why I'm puzzled about people saying the 1/48 is so delicate. It's not that I don't believe you, when you say that yours feel like they are breaking apart but more that I haven't had that experience yet so far as I expected to get a toy aimed at people who wouldn't necessarily play with it like a kid)

I think that a toy with less weight and some balljointed hips may be able to do a more wide pose than the same toy with the same joints but is heavier. (doesn't matter if the latter is diecast or anything) It's not just about balance but the stress on the hip joints. A top heavy robot made of heavy materials will loosen its hips faster than the same toy which is generally lighter because of less stress from the lighter body. Therefore I prefer less diecast on larger toys if possible. The fast pack on the 1/48 which is heavy is only going to put more stress on the hinge than needed. If it had been lighter maybe it would be less scary and overall less stressful on the hinge and that two bumps that hold the whole thing up? My point: Weight doesn't necessarily = durability. Over time a the heavy fast pack will wear out the thing faster than a lighter version of that fast pack made of lighter materials but equal durability, since the lessened weight eases some of the burden on the hinge.

My reason for making that point was just to respond to the collectors who hate big things that feel light. (and therefore cheap to them)

I'm not so much anti-diecast as I am pro-plastic. Being pro-plastic doesn't mean I am automatically anti-diecast. Understand what I am saying. I prefer plastic over diecast but not against its use. An example is how I like the playability of the alternators over the binaltechs because they are cheap and light. Maybe the diecast BT actually displays better because it looks more expensive, sure. Something that I agree is true. But I don't worry when I touch the alts. I can hold them, pose them, scratch them. And if it falls off my desk, so what? It's so light anyway. I can't say the same about the 1/72 yf-21. It just feel dangerous to pose or have it knock on something.

Dude, shorter posts please.

You missed my point. I'm NOT saying diecast metal is better than plastic.

I am saying anything else out there is BETTER than Yamato's Plastic. Bandai's 1/55s' plastic weighs about the same as Yamato's but they have better sculpt and panel line impressions.

Hell, Yamato even used diecast metal for their Garlands and they broke!

Yes. I am SINGLING OUT Yamato. Anything they manufacture will turn out slightly crappier than any competitors, if they did not FLAT OUT meet with disaster.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

BoB that is a fair statement. Somewhere in the thread the topic turned to yamato 1/60 vf-1, the fact they had diecast legs, and how 1/48 felt cheap because it is so light (while 1/60 felt heavy for its size) and then this got confused with how yamato were the only game in town and that as lovers of 1/48 vf-1 which has its faults, it is still the best valk to recommend to newbies looking for modern vf-1 toy. Not all of us who love the vf-1 are blind loyalist.

I just wanted to clear up some of the confusion so people would understand that once bandai or some better company DOES make a supeior vf-1 in durability I will be a fanboy of that just as I am of the existing thing.

There is also the matter of price. There isn't much defence for that. Everyone can agree these feel overpriced. Not much we can do about it though (thanks HG) so no point complaining if there is no competition in the large scale vf-1 toy arena for us to go to for a cheaper and better-quality alternative. "beggers can't be choosers" goes the saying.

About the garland: unlike macross at least you can get support for the broken shoulders. We macross fans outside japan are loyal to macross as a franchise and we will eat all the costs. But that shouldn't be confused with being ignorant and dumb people who will buy shoddy things just because it is a macross toy. If someone thinks the toys are overpriced, a fan is likely to come out and defend it by saying:"years ago bandai chunky munky on ebay was $1000. Be thankful you ingrate" and this gets confused with "people who have low standards." It's not so much we have low standards as the standards have to be lowered in relation to what is already out there. If there is nothing to compare the yamato 1/48 with, what else can a fan of macross recommend to another fan looking for a vf-1 toy to own? It's not like we can send you a free sample for you to try. Everyone's standard will be different, so you got to accept that people who had no other alternative are going to be excited over anything better than what other stuff is already out there, ..if it's been such a long time since anything has been done for macross. (such an old series) If those fans were paying $1000 for some ancient toy from another decade, then in their mind they don't see it as being that bad to get something much better for less.

So as a result of

a) the franchise being dead

b) no new toys for macross

c) having to import them and not have support for breakages,

...opinions about what something is worth will vary. Some will be angry at price, others will be grateful, and some will expect the first attempt to be perfect. (eg cracking in the 1/60 yf-19 making people scared they will self destruct on them.)

Edited April 25, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beware of Blast]

Nor is it wise to generalize and say ALL diecast is problematic either. Notice any double-standard in your argument there?

Other manufacturers do seem quite capable of using diecast without widespread cosmetic chipping problems, as has been previously pointed out with BoB's SOC references. The SOC Gunbuster really is a sterling example of how to create/engineer an insanely complex transforming mechanism, using painted diecast/diecast or diecast/plastic joints, which is not prone to chipping. If in doubt, check out the transforming feet that come with the Gunbuster

Ya know, someone over at ToyboxDX, once mentioned that GB's transforming feet was unneccessary, that it served nothing more than to drive that SOC's price higher and that the entire undertaking was a masturbatory act on the part of Bandai's design team as though to tell the world, "Look, LOOK how CLEVER we are! "... lol!

Although negative as hell, you NEVER get people making a statement about Yamato's valks like that.

And the GB still retailed for cheaper than a deluxe 1/48 Stealth VF, or a 1/60 YF19.

[drifand]

Ya know, someone over at ToyboxDX, once mentioned that GB's transforming feet was unneccessary, that it served nothing more than to drive that SOC's price higher and that the entire undertaking was a masturbatory act on the part of Bandai's design team as though to tell the world, "Look, LOOK how CLEVER we are! "... lol!

Although negative as hell, you NEVER get people making a statement about Yamato's valks like that.

And the GB still retailed for cheaper than a deluxe 1/48 Stealth VF, or a 1/60 YF19.

Actually, that was from a post by Matt, translating part of a Japanese reviewer's impressions of the SOC GB. On my part, as far as I can recall, I've only had 3 real problems with my SOCs:

1. Paint on PVC parts like fists and heads starting to get sticky with age. (True for any painted PVC toy). Bandai should use less PVC except for things like antennas. Fists should be made from tougher plastics; same goes for heads.

2. In-extractable claws on one of Combattler-V's component vehicles... Design was too smart for itself. I do believe Bandai learned from this and made it better on the Voltes-V.

3. The too-loose posable neck-block on Dancougar. This was just LAZY. As long as you displayed Danny upright, nothing would happen, but if you 'flew' him thru some loop-de-loops, then the whole head chunk is liable to fall off. (Not very likely, I guess.)

All in all, no fatal 1st issue errors thru 27 SOCs I have bought to-date, although the paint/PVC reaction is debatable. Bandai does have occasional problems on their other toy-lines, but then again, look at how many toys they're pumping out every day! At any one time, Yamato probably only has a dozen to look after at most, and they STILL can't get their first runs RIGHT. Not even after 5+ years of experience.

Other makers with major screw-ups? There was the pricey Kaiyodo GGG which had too-loose 'mono-shaft' joints and the entire first run was recalled with a free 1-1 exchange all over the world... WITH APOLOGIES. I'd like to see Yamato start behaving with the same kind of class towards all their customers... instead of allowing faulty goods like the 1st run Garland go off on 50% discount on still unsuspecting folks.

[do not disturb]

my biggest complaint in regards to the 1/60(diecast ones) is the feet and shoulders. i wish the feet would move a bit for more poseability but the feet(or ankles) barely go back and forth. and forget about the shoulder design, it just doesn't make sense to me.

the 1/48, its really a price issue(though its dropped some since its first release), outside of that, the oversized chestplate really ruins the battroid mode especially if you don't have the FPs attached. i like FP valks but sometimes i wish i could have a decent looking battroid without any of the FP armor.

now going back to the newer 1/60s, as much as i love the YF-19, i still can't seem to get over the fact that it was a ripoff. even if it was the same price as a 1/48, i just don't feel i got my moneys worth. its has absolutely ZERO features...well outside of the removable visor and shoulder stock(which doesn't really add up to jackshit IMO). even the transformation is lacking in a lot of ways, you barely have to do anything to TF it. the origami style arms is probably the only thing that makes the transformation unique/difficult, otherwsie, the fun of TFing it is almost non-existent.

as far as the VF-0, its awesome outside of the broken shoulder issue. out of all of the yammies toys i own, i feel i got the most bang for my buck with its purchase. i really wish they put that same kind of effort into the YF-19 but sadly no. i'll be picking more of these up when i get word of the shoulders being fixed. i love this toy but not enough that i can justify buying a wouldbe lemon.

[Jasonc]

Well,

In all my opinions about the VF series, I cannot comment on this. I own 1 1/60 Roy, and ZERO (0) 1/48s. Although I've held them. Somehow, although everyone here is thinking "why the hell is this debate back", we are on what page of this discussion?

As for sturdiness and the debate of Die cast vs. plastic, materials aren't used in most cases just as extra pieces, materials are picked for their properties and functionality in that part. Although some bad choices from Yamato, overall, they use good plastic, and with the use of better plastics as they go, maybe they will someday get the right parts made in diecast, rigth parts made in various plastics, and this argument will be a waste of time.

Heavier does not equal sturdier

Lighter does not equal cheaper

die cast does not always necessarily mean paint chipping

and Plastic does not always mean stress marks and breakage.

Now, back to the original post, sorry you didn't like the 1/48, I didn't get them because I'm a completist, and if I get one, I'm gonna want them all, like Pokemon (j/k) I just want to save my wallet from that quest. But if you don't like it, at least you have one that you can keep forever and look at. You don't have to worry about buying more. It's the great thing about being in a free economy society.

[Lonewolf]

I got my first 1/48 Valk today and I have to say I'm TOTALLY underwhelmed

I've got all the 1/60 Valks and apart from the annoying habit of falling apart when you handle them (which is not really an issue as I only display them) I have to ask why everyone goes banana's over the 1/48's

The 1/48 has the feel and look of a plastic toy and is lighter than a 1/60 even though it's bigger. The fact that the legs don't fall off when you handle it doesn't in my mind justify the rediculous price they sell for. Fortunately I got this one at a good price but I certainly won't be getting anymore.

You may now proceed to stone the heritic

Well you're entitled to your own opinion, but I for one used to own Toynami's MC VF-1S Roy and IMHO Yamato's 1/48 VF-1S is far superior.

I've never seen a 1/60 in person and considered buying some for a long time, but in the end the 1/48 won me over and not a single day goes by that I don't say to myself how good my choice was, but that's just me.