Which CONSOLE!?

[JB0]

Not suspect. Confirmed fakes.

Nvidia came out and SAID they weren't running on the PS3 chip, the PS3 chip wasn't finalized, no PS3 silicon had been made, and it was actually a pair of their then-upcoming PC boards running in SLI mode.

335287[/snapback]

Sorry...figure of speech... though no more false than the playable 360's on E3 being G5's and Xenon development units.....point being is both make claims and this time around both appear (so far) to be delivering what they showed before.

335298[/snapback]

I may be wrong on this, but if I recall, Son was trying to pass the E3 video soff as arel while MS was making a big deal out of the fact that it WASN'T real.

Just FYI....the MGS4 trailer was realtime with the in game engine...they even showed a real time demo with Kojima controlling the camera angles and zooming around at TGS.

335285[/snapback]

Let's not forget way back before the PS2 launch, the Final Fantasy VIII demo? It was running on some SGI machines, yet was hooked up to a PS2 controller so the camera could be controlled in real time. Sony claimed it was running on actual PS2 hardware.

335313[/snapback]

Actually it WAS on real PS2 hardware. Sort of.

They took the PS2 video chip and hooked it straight into a gig of RAM, then uploaded the program into the RAM and let the graphics chip go wild.

Which served the dual purposes of giving it WAY more space to work with than it would have in the actual system and well as freeing it from the bandwidth issues the actual system has.

[Hikuro]

I just got a demo disc with some 360 games and one of them was Need for Speed Underground Most Wanted and my jaw just dropped on how great it was.

The controls could use a bit of tuning, which I hope will happen in the actual game, I had alot of problems turning.

But after you beat each level you get chased by a horde of cops, even during your race you'll here reports that they're after you. Then you got a minute and a half which feels like 10 minutes of where nothing but cops are trying to get you and trust me they will TRY....its not one of those Grand Theft Auto deals where the cops are just morons, these guys were smart. I had a real tough time shaking them. When I felt like I lost one, 4 more came in its place and wanted to run me down!

I can't wait to get this game!

[Gaijin]

I just got a demo disc with some 360 games and one of them was Need for Speed Underground Most Wanted and my jaw just dropped on how great it was.

The controls could use a bit of tuning, which I hope will happen in the actual game, I had alot of problems turning. 

But after you beat each level you get chased by a horde of cops, even during your race you'll here reports that they're after you.  Then you got a minute and a half which feels like 10 minutes of where nothing but cops are trying to get you and trust me they will TRY....its not one of those Grand Theft Auto deals where the cops are just morons, these guys were smart.  I had a real tough time shaking them.  When I felt like I lost one, 4 more came in its place and wanted to run me down!

I can't wait to get this game!

335370[/snapback]

Wait...wha? 360 demos or trailers?

[Gaijin]

Pre-rendered, AFAIK, means that it was rendered out of engine, and inserted as a cutscene.  Hence, it cuts from the game to the cutscene.  An in-engine cutscene is simply a point where the game takes control from the players, and uses a fixed "camera."  No cut is necessary.

Using a controller to change the viewing angle doesn't make it any less prerendered.  They are, afterall, rendered in 3D.  Until Sony shows actual gameplay running off at least the beta dev kits, then it's all hype to be taken with a grain of salt.  That doesn't mean that I want it to be bullshit.  I'm just not setting myself up for a letdown like the PS2 was.

The Xbox 360 is a different and almost opposite matter.  Sony was showing amazing movies that weren't running on the PS3, and everyone starts talking about how amazing the PS3 will be.  Microsoft was showing actual games that weren't running on the 360, and they looked rather unimpressive.  A lot of people were quick to write off the the 360 for that.  But now that the beta dev kits are out, the games are looking a lot better.  And since we are seeing actual gameplay, we have a reasonable idea of what to expect.

335327[/snapback]

MGS4 was done with the in game engine...if anyone wouldn't pull wool over people's eyes it's Kojima.

Wait...so you mean to say you believed we'd get Toy Story level graphics from the PS2 and Xbox back then? The tech demos are just tech demos...the same for this gen...only this time around, we are seeing what they are promising. And I'll say that PDZ, while looking great...does not look "next gen" to me, looking more like a great PC FPS so far. PGR3, NBA, and Gears of War look next gen to me on the 360. I never bought into the PS2 hype(I loved my Dreamcast)..but after the MGS2 trailers, which were delivered upon, I was satisfied. This time around....I expect no less from all developers. And so far...things look like they're on the right track (graphically at least)...both consoles seem to have a lot of potential.

E3...that was the whole point wasn't it? To get people excited....and both sides claimed a lot...my point being again is....this time around it seems they both are delivering.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Gaijin

[yellowlightman]

MGS4 was done with the in game engine...if anyone wouldn't pull wool over people's eyes it's Kojima. 

335404[/snapback]

He pulled something similar if I recall with MGS2, where he demo'd MGS2 on a workstation but used a PS2 controller.

[Radd]

this time around it seems they both are delivering. 

For various reasons already posted in this thread, I really don't see how this statement is valid. Once we see some actual games that we know are games and not just fancy graphics not even running on the actual hardware, can statements like this be bandied about with carefree mirth.

[Hikuro]

They were actual playable demo's for the 360, but I think the only 360 game was Need for Speed, the rest are up coming or already released Xbox games like the Marvel Nemesis and StarWars Battle Front II.

[Gaijin]

They were actual playable demo's for the 360, but I think the only 360 game was Need for Speed, the rest are up coming or already released Xbox games like the Marvel Nemesis and StarWars Battle Front II.

335421[/snapback]

I'm confused...what disc is this from? Must be gameplay movies of 360 stuff...because you'd need a 360 to play any 360 demos. Or you played the XBox version of Need for Speed which is aloso coming for the 360.

[Gunbuster]

I have the OXM November 2005 issue with the game demo disc#50 and there's no playable Xbox 360 demo on it. Please enlighten us where you got the 360 playable Demo.

[Hikuro]

okay, clarifying.

On Nov 2005 Disc #50, there is a playable version of Need for Speed Most Wanted, you have 4 cars to choose from, 2 of them are the RX-8 just different colors with 3 playable levels...a Tollbooth level, Drag Race and Sprint mode.

After each race your pretty much in a race for your life for a minute and a half against a horde of cops.

Also in the disc includes LA Rush, Land of the Dead, Marvel Nemesis, NCAA football 2006, and Starwars Battlefront II.

The need for speed is suppose to be a dumbed down Xbox playable of the 360 game. In ANOTHER Xbox magazine, they have two screen shots of Most Wanted, one from the Demo game from what I understand which has a somewhat blurry picture of two cars going at it, and the other, same picture but 360's rendition which has higher clarity and resolution etc.

If anyone needs too I can scan pictures of this for evidence, no problem.

I also continued reading, it seems EA's developers are pretty much copying Midnight Club 3 by adding a bullet time effect during gameplay and having tollbooth racing which is going from one booth to the next within a certain amount of time.

EA's race team also dropped a few fun races like Drift Competitions which were big selling points for Need for Speed.

But like I said, if anyone needs anything, lemme know, I can scan what ever you need.

[Gaijin]

okay, clarifying.

On Nov 2005 Disc #50, there is a playable version of Need for Speed Most Wanted, you have 4 cars to choose from, 2 of them are the RX-8 just different colors with 3 playable levels...a Tollbooth level, Drag Race and Sprint mode.

After each race your pretty much in a race for your life for a minute and a half against a horde of cops.

Also in the disc includes LA Rush, Land of the Dead, Marvel Nemesis, NCAA football 2006, and Starwars Battlefront II.

The need for speed is suppose to be a dumbed down Xbox playable of the 360 game.  In ANOTHER Xbox magazine, they have two screen shots of Most Wanted, one from the Demo game from what I understand which has a somewhat blurry picture of two cars going at it, and the other, same picture but 360's rendition which has higher clarity and resolution etc.

If anyone needs too I can scan pictures of this for evidence, no problem.

I also continued reading, it seems EA's developers are pretty much copying Midnight Club 3 by adding a bullet time effect during gameplay and having tollbooth racing which is going from one booth to the next within a certain amount of time.

EA's race team also dropped a few fun races like Drift Competitions which were big selling points for Need for Speed.

But like I said, if anyone needs anything, lemme know, I can scan what ever you need.

335656[/snapback]

Ypu played the Xbox version which is also coming out for both 360 and Xbox...

[Black Valkyrie]

From magicbox :

P L A Y S T A T I O N 3

- Sony announced they will host a PlayStation 3 entertainment festival named Akihabara Enta Matsuri in Tokyo, Japan between October 22 - 30, it seems Sony will be showcasing all the new PlayStation 3 software and hardware, it is uncertain whether the software will be playable or in video form only.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Hikuro]

I'll be surprised if SONY has playable software available, they didn't have anything new at the Tokyogame show few weeks ago.

And also, didn't know Most Wanted was going out in Xbox as well, thought it was a 360 only release cause all I've heard for racing is Need for speed for 360 : / and that there are Xbox demo and 360 screen shots comparing the video quality of the two systems.

I went too Gamestop, preordered my sixth 360 game, Ridge Racer, a second wireless controler and plugandplay recharge kit.

[MGREXX]

WELL WELL WELL!!!!

Looks like the 360 is in trouble.

Gamespot article

I tell you. I smell a Sega Saturn repeat.

SONY is smart. Take your time and give us true next gen titles. Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.

[Black Valkyrie]

It`s to early to tell, since they all first generation games.

PS: Shouldn`t you be playing Gex on your 3DO.

[JB0]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

[yellowlightman]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

336428[/snapback]

I was gonna say, all I heard him say was "PS2 PS2 PS2."

As for the XBox beng a Sega Saturn repeat... I wish. This next generation has left me wanting a new Sega system really bad.

[Gaijin]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

336428[/snapback]

I was gonna say, all I heard him say was "PS2 PS2 PS2."

As for the XBox beng a Sega Saturn repeat... I wish. This next generation has left me wanting a new Sega system really bad.

336433[/snapback]

Ditto. I miss old Sega.

The Gamespot article only points out the obvious...most launch games aren't the greatest...you're lucky to get a couple true gems in there. The Dreamcast had the best launch line up ever.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Gaijin

[Black Valkyrie]

Not long ago there were rumors that Sega/Sammy wanted to make a console with their arcade spec. something like Neo Geo but the company denied it.

[JB0]

Not long ago there were rumors that Sega/Sammy wanted to make a console with their arcade spec. something like Neo Geo but the company denied it.

336442[/snapback]

Well, they already HAD done it was the problem.

The Atomiswave(about which the rumors revolved) was identical to a Dreamcast, except that it used ROM carts instead of disks.

Alternatively, it was a NAOMI with less RAM.

Your choice of viewpoints.

[Black Valkyrie]

The one I heard is a home system DVD format.

[JB0]

The one I heard is a home system DVD format.

336447[/snapback]

It'd still be a Dreamcast, though.

[mikeszekely]

The one I heard is a home system DVD format.

336447[/snapback]

It'd still be a Dreamcast, though.

336452[/snapback]

A new Dreamcast?

...I could live with that.

Looks like the 360 is in trouble.

Gamespot article

I tell you. I smell a Sega Saturn repeat.

SONY is smart. Take your time and give us true next gen titles. Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.

Just once in your life, could you accept reality for what it is? Once again, citing articles that do nothing to back your "predictions" (desperate, false hopes) of gloom and doom for the Xbox 360. All the article says is, while the launch games for the 360 are impressive, they're not knocking anyone's socks off, and that later software will do more to take advantage of the hardware. Not only is that NOT the end of the world for the Xbox 360, it's not a scenario that's unique to the Xbox 360. Doom 3 looks better than Halo for the original Xbox. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess looks better than Luigi's Mansion (Cube). Soul Calibur III looks better than Tekken Tag Tournament (PS2). Shenmue looked better than Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast). Dare I say, Perfect Dark looked better than Goldeneye (N64). Dead or Alive looked better than Battle Arena Toshinden (PSX). Hell, Donkey Kong Country looked better than Super Mario World (SNES), Super Mario Bros. 3 looked better than the original Super Mario Bros (NES), and Metroid II looked way better than Super Mario Land (original Gameboy).

What's more, the quality of the initial launch lineup has little bearing on the long-term success of the console. In recent years, the Dreamcast probably had one of the best launch lineups, with Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive 2, Sonic Adventure, and more. Yet the Dreamcast was dead in the water two years later. And the worst probably belongs to the PlayStation two, with craptacular ports like Tekken Tag and Dead or Alive 2, the ultra-lame Fantavision (game, or tech demo? You decide). Hell, even Ridge Racer V was a letdown after the spectacular R4. And yet today, the PS2 has outsold the Xbox and Gamecube combined 3:2.

[Radd]

In addition, if taking your time to deliver "true next gen titles" was a winning formula, both Microsoft and Nintendo would be dancing on the PS2's grave right now.

[JB0]

The one I heard is a home system DVD format.

336447[/snapback]

It'd still be a Dreamcast, though.

336452[/snapback]

A new Dreamcast?

...I could live with that.

I'd rather have a home NAOMI2, personally.

[Hikuro]

I just heard today that Elder Scrolls got pushed back till the start of December, that saves me 55 bucks

I got 128 and some change to pay off the system and some accessories, but I got over 270 dollars to pay off games.

[MGREXX]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

336428[/snapback]

Only because you are on crack.

[EXO]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

336428[/snapback]

Only because you are on crack.

336569[/snapback]

uh... yeah Mr. IlearnedeverythingfromGAMESPOT.

[JB0]

SONY is smart.  Take your time and give us true next gen titles.  Rushing crap out the door in sheer despeartion is not the right answer.  

This paragraph is self-contradicting.

336428[/snapback]

Only because you are on crack.

336569[/snapback]

And you're on LSD. What's the point here?

[Gunbuster]

if this is actually true, I think it will hurt Sony

"PS3Today.com and PS3Focus.com have reported a recent Japanese article about PS3 developer support, which has an insider source claiming that the initial investment for PS3 software development it at least ¥2 billion (U$S 17.6 million), and that figure does not include the actual development costs associated directly with the title.

This initial investment, according to this insider source, is "nothing but a nightmare for many Japanese software development companies."

The article also reveals that the prevailing rumor in Japanese game development circles is that many companies may end up developing for the Xbox 360, which will lower R&D costs since the system shares many similarities with Windows game development, allowing developers to release a single title on both platforms. "

[Black Valkyrie]

True or not I think they`ll even support Nintendo more than Xbox360.

[sabretooth]

ditto...

[mikeszekely]

True or not I think they`ll even support Nintendo more than Xbox360.

336749[/snapback]

In the begining, everyone wants to work with Nintendo. Nintendo is synonomous with the videogame industry. It's only after lack of sales fails to justify the costs in developing for their systems that people stop making games for their systems.

That said, almost every major game publisher/developer in Japan has signed on to develop for the Xbox 360. While Final Fantasy XI is unlikely to move systems, it does go to show that even Square Enix is onboard with the Xbox 360. As long as a few of them release games that will sell systems in Japan, Japanese developers will continue to support the Xbox 360.

It's all about money in the end. Japanese gamers don't make many regular Xbox games because almost no one bought and Xbox in Japan. They make Gamecube games, because Japanese gamers bought Gamecubes. American and European developers like making games for Xbox, because Xbox has been relatively successful in those markets. They make fewer Gamecube games, because Gamecube is solidly in third place outside of Japan. And despite the fact that the PS2 is a pain-in-the-ass to program for, and despite the fact that it has by far the most inferior hardware of current-gen consoles, everyone develops for PS2, because more people the world over own a PS2 than anything else.

[JB0]

Pre-rendered, AFAIK, means that it was rendered out of engine, and inserted as a cutscene.  Hence, it cuts from the game to the cutscene.  An in-engine cutscene is simply a point where the game takes control from the players, and uses a fixed "camera."  No cut is necessary.

Using a controller to change the viewing angle doesn't make it any less prerendered.  They are, afterall, rendered in 3D.  Until Sony shows actual gameplay running off at least the beta dev kits, then it's all hype to be taken with a grain of salt.  That doesn't mean that I want it to be bullshit.  I'm just not setting myself up for a letdown like the PS2 was.

Missed this before, or I'd've commented then.

There's some confusion of terms going on here. Game engine and pre-rendered aren't antonyms.

You have in-engine and out-of-engine graphics, and pre-rendered and real-time graphuiics.

Pre-rendered means it was rendered in advance as opposed to on-the-fly.

Pre-rendered sources can't be manipulated, because they have to be altered BEFORE the rendering phase.

And they actually AREN'T rendered in 3D. The act of rendering, as we're using the term, converts all your 3D textures, models, lightsources, and whatnot into a single finished 2D image.

Yoou can have both pre-rendered and real-time graphics either in-engine or out-of-engine.

The PS1 FF games, for example, all have pre-rendered city and dungeon maps with real-time characters in-engine.

Dragon's Lair(the original arcade game, not the modern 3D action title) uses pre-rendered graphics exclusively within the game engine. This is NOT true of all LaserDisk games, as several had real-time graphics overlayed on top of the LaserDisk background.

Arguably, NES Ninja Gaiden's cutscenes are rendered in real-time, but very clearly out-of-engine.

[Black Valkyrie]

Nintendo Revolution Controller Concepts: Gun Games