The MW Automotive Thread

[Commander McBride]

I guess they must not have copyright laws there, lol.....

[areaseven]

(Post deleted because some idiot below quoted it.)

Edited January 14, 2006 by areaseven

[peter]

From Car and Driver magazine:

Spied! Bugatti Veyron

PHOTOGRAPHY BY BRENDA PRIDDY & COMPANY

February 2005

Odds are good that Jay Leno will be one of the first buyers of the Bugatti Veyron—assuming, that is, that the VW Group will finally produce the sports cars for sale.

The Veyron was first shown at the 2002 Geneva motor show, but then production plans were halted. Now, once again, the concept is making the rounds at European motor shows, with the production version (shown here) scheduled to be introduced at the Frankfurt show this September.

The VW Group has put a W-16 engine with 1001 horsepower under the hood of this supercar, bringing the top speed to 252 miles per hour!

The production run will be limited to just 300 units and the price of the Veyron? A cool one-million dollars!

Haha, is that the ralley version?

[Commander McBride]

No, it's the "putting the car in a cool picture to try to convince people to waste a million dollars on a hideously ugly car" version.

I'd buy a GT-R and soup it up to 1001HP for 1/5th the price, and have a car that will dominate this crapass thing.

[yellowlightman]

I'd buy a GT-R and soup it up to 1001HP for 1/5th the price, and have a car that will dominate this crapass thing.

But then you'd have a souped up coupe version of a boring family sedan, instead of an expensive exotic. Apples to oranges.

[reddsun1]

I dunno--I can think of a helluva lot of better things to spend a cool mil on to put in a garage than that thing. Sheesh, the damn thing looks like the head of a golf club or something. I suppose for people with more money than sense, a million bucks just to have "the only one on the block" is no big deal.

[promethuem5]

Wowsers! That thing is neato looking, but waaay too expensive...especially to soemone who doesnt care about preoformance (it's a point A to point B thing) the shell is funkily cool tho....

[peter]

I'd buy a GT-R and soup it up to 1001HP for 1/5th the price, and have a car that will dominate this crapass thing.

But then you'd have a souped up coupe version of a boring family sedan, instead of an expensive exotic. Apples to oranges.

He's only saying that cause he doesn't have a million bucks. I have a feeling that not many of us here do.

But, if I did have the kind of money where buying a million dollar car was nothing, I wouldn't stop there. I'd have to have at least a Mclaren F1 (dated, but still awesome) in my collection as well. I'd also get several GT-Rs (R32, R33, and R34). Hell, I'd have a whole fleet different cars, like my Grand Tourismo garage!

[yellowlightman]

He's only saying that cause he doesn't have a million bucks. I have a feeling that not many of us here do.

But, if I did have the kind of money where buying a million dollar car was nothing, I wouldn't stop there. I'd have to have at least a Mclaren F1 (dated, but still awesome) in my collection as well. I'd also get several GT-Rs (R32, R33, and R34). Hell, I'd have a whole fleet different cars, like my Grand Tourismo garage!

If I had a million bucks I probably wouldn't be spending it all on a new car. I'd be more interested in picking up a GT40, Shelby Daytona Coupe or finding a way to invest that million to make more money and buying an Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale (the most beautiful car in the world).

[Agent ONE]

He's only saying that cause he doesn't have a million bucks.  I have a feeling that not many of us here do.

But, if I did have the kind of money where buying a million dollar car was nothing, I wouldn't stop there.  I'd have to have at least a Mclaren F1 (dated, but still awesome) in my collection as well.  I'd also get several GT-Rs (R32, R33, and R34).  Hell, I'd have a whole fleet different cars, like my Grand Tourismo garage!

If I had a million bucks I probably wouldn't be spending it all on a new car. I'd be more interested in picking up a GT40, Shelby Daytona Coupe or finding a way to invest that million to make more money and buying an Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale (the most beautiful car in the world).

THAT!?

HAHAHAAAA!! That thing rocks! I have never heard of thing. Is that the car that was in Hardcastle and McCormick (80's cop show)?

[yellowlightman]

HAHAHAAAA!!  That thing rocks!  I have never heard of thing.  Is that the car that was in Hardcastle and McCormick (80's cop show)?

It's from the late 60's, street car version of Alfa's Tipo 33 race car which they campaigned in races like Le Mans. Hard to find much info on it, though I've read as few as 18 were made and that it weighed a little over 1200lbs. Either way, it's gorgeous.

Edited March 2, 2005 by yellowlightman

[areaseven]

From Car and Driver magazine:

Noble M12 GTO-3R

We’re getting close to ludicrous speed.

BY LARRY WEBSTER

PHOTOGRAPHY BY JEFFREY G. RUSSELL

March 2005

Last fall we were breaking in a new road warrior and testing the Noble M12 at the same time. The car was very quick, and as we were at the staging area checking out the acceleration results, the 20-something new guy got a look. “Damn—that thing’s stupid fast!” he blurted.

What was funny was how well that summed up the Noble. On one hand, it is a little, well, silly, since it’s a South African–built $76,400 car of questionable lineage that doesn’t pass U.S. emissions or crash regulations and gets registered for road use as a home-built kit. But on the other, it is one of the most satisfying cars we’ve ever driven, and it is ferociously fast, snapping to 60 in a minuscule 3.3 seconds, the same as a Ford GT.

“Actually, it’s a component car,” clarified Dean Rosen, the president of 1G Racing and importer of the Noble kit. “The car comes in two crates—one with the completely assembled car, and the other with the powertrain. You can join the two in about 40 hours.” Maybe we were being a little harsh, since a lot of kit cars we’ve driven feel pretty good. But still, here in the U.S., the Noble is an obscure machine.

Lee Noble, a well-regarded auto designer and race-car driver, formed Noble Automotive Limited in Leicestershire, England, in 1998. In 1999, he released the M10, also built in South Africa. English car magazines swooned, praising the Noble for superb driving dynamics. One year later, a refined and prettier version of the M10, called the M12, appeared. In 2003, 1G Racing began importing about six each month to the U.S., approximately 30 percent of the total production.

The car certainly looks fierce, a sports car for sure, but it doesn’t appear to be all that sophisticated. The chassis is made from steel tubes, and the body is fiberglass. The mid-mounted, twin-turbocharged 360-hp V-6 uses the engine block from a Ford Taurus, and the six-speed transmission is from the European Ford Mondeo.

When Rosen arrived with the car, we did the usual walk around looking for the fatal flaw that would illustrate this low-volume car was built by a small team of engineers with limited resources. None readily appeared. So we opened the door and got in.

A few things struck us as odd. Getting in was easy, and the cockpit, though narrow, offered plenty of legroom. “We have one customer who is six foot seven and weighs 250 pounds, and he fits fine,” commented Rosen, and we believe him.

The radio—the only luxury feature besides the very effective air conditioning—is mounted on the dash in front of the passenger, out of reach of the driver. Strange. And the manual windows roll down only two-thirds of the way.

These types of low-volume sports cars often provide some combination of thrills—a gorgeous body, lots of horsepower, outrageous speed. The trade-offs are usually creature comfort—a clutch that will give you a charley horse, for example—and a jarring ride. Not everyone has the nerve (or maybe lack of brains) for a car like this, but friends will still envy it.

Today there are plenty of ways to fulfill your desire for a trophy car that is easy to have a long-term relationship with. The Porsche Carrera GT, the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, the Saleen S7—these all cost upwards of $400,000. Considering the M12 sprouted from a young, small company and costs more than four-fifths less, we weren’t expecting much refinement or poise.

And we were dead wrong. The steering, the brakes, and the clutch have a direct feel with light effort. The ride is surprisingly good, with a suppleness that inhales large impacts without sending shocks to the driver. We’d happily spend days in the Noble’s saddle.

And it posted supercar numbers at the track: The quarter-mile happened in 11.8 seconds at 118 mph, and it pulled an even 1.00 g on the skidpad. The $448,000 Porsche Carrera GT does the quarter in 11.2 seconds at 132 mph. Bear in mind that skirting crash and emissions regulations makes it easier to keep a car light. The Noble weighs only 2457 pounds, 689 less than the carbon-fiber Carrera GT.

On the other hand, the sublime connection you feel with the road in the Noble is not readily available at any price. You can drive it right up to its sky-high limits and know exactly when you’ve gotten there and back off just a smidge to stay in control. You feel far more accomplished as a driver than you actually are, and in a car this capable, providing that feeling is no small feat.

It took us four tries and four visits from 1G Racing’s Rosen to get the test numbers for the Noble. On attempt No. 1, a faulty engine computer caused high-rpm misfires. With that fixed, Rosen returned two weeks later, but then we heard some ominous noises from the engine bay during the second attempt, so Rosen checked the oil, only to find that his mechanics had left the sump half-empty, which damaged the engine. “Well,” he reasoned, “thank God the motor only costs $5200. Imagine if it were a Porsche.” Attempt three was sidelined when the vacuum hoses were incorrectly routed after the engine swap. On the fourth try, which was about six weeks after we had first driven the car, everything ran fine.

So it looks as if Rosen might need some help back at his shop, but every setback brought smiles to our faces because that meant we’d get another chance to drive the M12.

1G Racing, 2647 Morgan Lane, Hamilton, Ohio 45013; 866-612-6625; http://www.1gracing.com.

Noble M12 GTO-3R

Vehicle type: mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 2-passenger, 2-door coupe

Price as tested: $76,400 (base price*: $76,400)

Engine type: twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, port fuel injection

Displacement 181 cu in, 2967cc

Power (SAE net): 360 bhp @ 6200 rpm

Torque (SAE net): 358 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm

Transmission: 6-speed manual

Wheelbase: 96.0 in

Length/width/height: 161.0/74.2/45.0 in

Curb weight: 2457 lb

Zero to 60 mph: 3.3 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 8.1 sec

Zero to 150 mph: 26.6 sec

Street start, 5–60 mph: 3.9 sec

Standing 1/4-mile: 11.8 sec @ 118 mph

Braking, 70–0 mph: 167 ft

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.00 g

*Base price includes all performance-enhancing options.

BTW, peter, when replying to a quote, try removing the IMG tags from the quote before posting. We don't want the same pictures posted more than once on the same page.

Edited March 3, 2005 by areaseven

[Lightning]

I'll take this one over all the ones mentioned so far, except the musclecars

It's the new Caterham CSR 260!

[Panzer]

^^ wouldn't be my first choice but I'm sure its an amazing driver.

[reddsun1]

Yeah, those Caterhams are supposed to be the shiz-nit, when it comes to power-to-weight ratio. I wouldn't mind having one o' these, myself--never been too crazy about that big honkin' scoop sticking out of the hood, though.

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/fanstuff/video/090603%20016.avi

[Commander McBride]

Went out to Willow Springs International Raceway yesterday, to participate at Just Drift. It was my first time sliding my car at the track, and it was a helluva lot of fun. It's true what they say, S14s really do drift well, they're very stable and controllable. As for me, I made quite a bit of improvement through the day, and I can't wait for the next one.

[Agent ONE]

I don't get that Noble thing... its just a kit car. I don't see it as any different than the moron that has the fiberglass fake Ferrari F40 shell on a Feiro.

[Agent ONE]

I don't get that Noble thing... its just a kit car. I don't see it as any different than the moron that has the fiberglass fake Ferrari F40 shell on a Feiro.

This is what I am talkin about:

[yellowlightman]

Yeah, those Caterhams are supposed to be the shiz-nit, when it comes to power-to-weight ratio.

If we're talking power-to-weight I'll take a turbo charged 'Busa, looks a helluva lot cooler too.

Caterhams are nifty, but outside of the bare-bones philosophy, there isn't much appealing about them. Are there any race series for them in the U.S.?

[Lightning]

SCCA has a production class just for them I think.

[peter]

I heard you can put one together for less than 30 grand. I'd do it but two cars is enough for me (no more money).

Edited March 8, 2005 by peter

[Commander McBride]

I'd buy a GT-R and soup it up to 1001HP for 1/5th the price, and have a car that will dominate this crapass thing.

But then you'd have a souped up coupe version of a boring family sedan, instead of an expensive exotic. Apples to oranges.

Yeah, but that would also mean that, when I beat up the car driving it like it's meant to be driven, replacing parts would be feasable.

[Jawjaw]

You can make any car fast - it just takes different amounts of money. Exotic cars use fancy materials and are hand built. I imagine most people who buy them just want to be seen in them.

I don't understand why VW/bugatti had such a hard time getting to 1000hp. It doesn't seem like you need 16 cylinders and how ever many turbos to do it. I understand they are going for reliable hp but still. Tuners get plenty out of a turbo straight six and it's fairly easy to do with a dual turbo V8.

I heard that the hardest part in making that car was getting someone to supply a tire to go 250+ mph. If you buy the car and want to go that fast, they will come to you with a set of racing slicks and put them on the car for you!

[yellowlightman]

I don't understand why VW/bugatti had such a hard time getting to 1000hp. It doesn't seem like you need 16 cylinders and how ever many turbos to do it. I understand they are going for reliable hp but still. Tuners get plenty out of a turbo straight six and it's fairly easy to do with a dual turbo V8.

Well, there's something to be said for an under-stressed motor. The bigger the engine, the less it has to work hard to get the power the more reliable it becomes, at least in theory. Plus there's the "brag factor" of saying you have a crazy motor with x amount of cylinders.

High HP numbers can be misleading too, take the Toyota Supra for instance. There are Supras that make 900+ HP, but because of the relatively low weight of the car they can't get traction for poo meaning that in situations like drag racing, they pull substancially lower times than they should. Hence the nickname "dyno queen."

[Panzer]

reliabilty is a factor too.

its one thing to have a 900+hp Supra that you won't take to the grocery store because you're scared it'll blow up and its another thing to own a million dollar Bugatti you can drive across the entire continent of europe without having the thing break a sweat or foul a spark plug.

[Agent ONE]

reliabilty is a factor too.

its one thing to have a 900+hp Supra that you won't take to the grocery store because you're scared it'll blow up and its another thing to own a million dollar Bugatti you can drive across the entire continent of europe without having the thing break a sweat or foul a spark plug.

Every other time you go to start an exotic it doesn't work... When cars are made in such low production numbers they can't be quality tested like large production run cars. Had a buddy that had a Lotus and it never ran, same thing with my Father's business partner who got a 355 Ferrari for his mid life crisis. Sh!t never ran.

[Lightning]

I don't understand why VW/bugatti had such a hard time getting to 1000hp.  It doesn't seem like you need 16 cylinders and how ever many turbos to do it.  I understand they are going for reliable hp but still.  Tuners get plenty out of a turbo straight six and it's fairly easy to do with a dual turbo V8.

Well, there's something to be said for an under-stressed motor. The bigger the engine, the less it has to work hard to get the power the more reliable it becomes, at least in theory. Plus there's the "brag factor" of saying you have a crazy motor with x amount of cylinders.

High HP numbers can be misleading too, take the Toyota Supra for instance. There are Supras that make 900+ HP, but because of the relatively low weight of the car they can't get traction for poo meaning that in situations like drag racing, they pull substancially lower times than they should. Hence the nickname "dyno queen."

one big thing: Horsepower sells cars, but Torque wins races! It's the top end torque that matters most in big track races, and low-to-midrange torque everywhere else.

[yellowlightman]

reliabilty is a factor too.

its one thing to have a 900+hp Supra that you won't take to the grocery store because you're scared it'll blow up and its another thing to own a million dollar Bugatti you can drive across the entire continent of europe without having the thing break a sweat or foul a spark plug.

The 2JZGTE engine in the twin-turbo Supra is arguably one of the most reliable high-performance engines in the world. The stock block can take up to 600HP safely, and I've heard about 900HP automatic Supras that get daily driven.

[Phyrox]

and I've heard about 900HP automatic Supras that get daily driven.

I've heard about the bogeyman, but I don't believe it.

[yellowlightman]

and I've heard about 900HP automatic Supras that get daily driven.

I've heard about the bogeyman, but I don't believe it.

WAAH

WAAAH

WAAAAAH

That last one made 980rwhp on the stock block.

[Panzer]

and I've heard about 900HP automatic Supras that get daily driven.

I've heard about the bogeyman, but I don't believe it.

WAAH

WAAAH

WAAAAAH

That last one made 980rwhp on the stock block.

I know all those #uckers. these guys too: www.wotm.com

fast cars (9 second Supras) but douche bag drivers.

almost had to beat Ryans ass once in HS.

I'm sure his skinny little chinese ass would have just sued anyways..

Edited March 9, 2005 by Panzer

[yellowlightman]

I know all those #uckers. these guys too: www.wotm.com

fast cars (9 second Supras) but douche bag drivers.

almost had to beat Ryans ass once in HS.

I'm sure his skinny little chinese ass would have just sued anyways..

I wouldn't doubt most of them are douche bags, but I can see where they're coming from given how awesome those cars are. Impractical and obscene, yes, but still damn impressive.

[Panzer]

yeah just basically REALLY spoiled, pompous rich brats.

money makes money. if I had parents that rich I'd have a 9 second car and a motorsport company too.

[Lightning]

yeah just basically REALLY spoiled, pompous rich brats.

money makes money. if I had parents that rich I'd have a 9 second car and a motorsport company too.

I'll take that motorsport company.

[peter]

and I've heard about 900HP automatic Supras that get daily driven.

I've heard about the bogeyman, but I don't believe it.

WAAH

WAAAH

WAAAAAH

That last one made 980rwhp on the stock block.

I know all those #uckers. these guys too: www.wotm.com

fast cars (9 second Supras) but douche bag drivers.

almost had to beat Ryans ass once in HS.

I'm sure his skinny little chinese ass would have just sued anyways..

What race are you? Guessing from your name, probably Aryan.