YAMATO 1/48 vs the TOYNAMI 1/55 VALKYRIE

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

the gamestop my friend works at, during may or early summer, got a bunch of MIB MPC's, the list price was 20$ but they were furthere discounted by 50% so I got mine for 9.99. They had milia and max but he and his boss and others got them first. All I needed was the skull leader(fav version) and it was a great buy for 10$.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Really though, the thing that drew me most to the Yamato valks was the emphasis on the aircraft design. I always thought the Chunky Monkey would be a cool toy, but didn't look at ALL like it would actually fly. The MPC is better, but not much.. I always hated the swing-bar design for the legs. I'm an aircraft nut first, Macross fan second, and I went for the one that looked like an actual plane, instead of a clunky collection of aircraft parts that transformed. That's partially why I got sick of the old aircraft transformers really fast... they always seemed to have some robot part sticking out that ruined the shape of the aircraft. The VF-1 was the first transformer I'd ever seen that managed to fit all the robot parts in a believable aircraft form, and still deliver a decent robot.

Yup, thats what I love about the Yamato and what makes me think the original Valk design is the absolute best transforming thingamagic out there.

Even when its in 'robot' mode it doesn't have many aircraft parts getting in the way (look at the TF binaltechs, beautiful in car mode but what a mess of windscreens and tyre in robot mode).

[eugimon]

I got back into macross when macross plus came out, and while I toyed with the idea of spending the money on a chunky monkey, I just couldn't justify spending that much on those toys.

So, I was pretty happy when I heard that new toys were being made for the macross plus line up and when I saw then sculpt and transformation for the 1/48 VF-1a, I knew I had to have at least one.

And then I found, that after I bought one, it was easier to buy a second one, and then buying fastpacks just seemed the most natural thing to do. I have four right now, and my 1/48 collection will probably end there, but I do plan on getting any other VF from yamato that they do with similar quality.

[ewilen]

HAH 200$ FOR AN MPC ROY? I got mine MIB @ gamestop for 10$!!!

I wonder if mine still has that Millia... last I was there it was 50, and I dodn't want to pay that.

Someone has been selling the vol 5 Miriya (or whatever they call her in RT) along with vol 6 VF-1R on eBay with prices starting at $50 for the pair and it seems quite a few auctions have gone begging for lack of bidders, while others simply sell for $50.

Personally, I wouldn't mind at least temporarily owning a vol 2 just to give the design a workout and, if it's not too horrible, to have a Kakizaki without having to customize or build a model. But the prices are currently still a little above what I'd be willing to pay including postage.

[Skull Leader]

Toynami Veritech is okay, but definately not worth retail $80.  I'm tempted to get the Jack Archer YF-1R cuz of the color scheme and its animation error head.  Plus its going for $30-$40 on ebay, not a bad price.

interesting artwork for an animation error...

its in japanese too.

That picture is in no Macross book I recognize. Especially not TIAS books, Memory Perfect, Gold book, or SK design works..

I'm guessing that was drawn by someone from HG or Toynami. I don't care about the dialogue around it. The fact that the caption says "YF-1R" makes me even more suspicious.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Skull Leader

[ewilen]

Doesn't it say "Studio Yune" in the bottom right?

I.e., it's just a design by Steve Yun [Edit--make that Tommy Yune], with Japanese text for reasons known only to him.

The 3-laser Valk seen in a Macross episode is different from the YF/VF-1R, especially in the faceplate, which isn't hexagonal but is simply a VF-1A faceplate.

Edited November 22, 2004 by ewilen

[JB0]

Doesn't it say "Studio Yune" in the bottom right?

I.e., it's just a design by Steve Yun [Edit--make that Tommy Yune], with Japanese text for reasons known only to him.

To make it look like authentic japanese concept art and further confuse the already confused masses.

[Renato]

QUOTE (ewilen @ Nov 21 2004, 11:45 PM)

Doesn't it say "Studio Yune" in the bottom right?

I.e., it's just a design by Steve Yun [Edit--make that Tommy Yune], with Japanese text for reasons known only to him.

To make it look like authentic japanese concept art and further confuse the already confused masses.

Also note that all the "Japanese" is just Katakana that anyone with a symbol guide can write. If it were official there would be kanji everywhere.

It pisses me off that this Tommy is trying to pass this thing off as "official". Do not be fooled.

As for why people are paying so much for the MPCs, beats me. I'm still amazed that a 1/48 can sell for as much as it does.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Renato

[Neova]

Going OT here but does anybody have a frame of the animation error YF-1R from Macross SDF-1? If not, that is more wanna-be Macross canon material.

I don't mind fan art but passing it off as "official" is BS.

Back to the original topic ... I think Robotech Veritechs going for that high is due to the demand and pure marketing by HG. AFAIK, Robotech was known world wide with Macross known less at its debut and today due to the marketing rights.

I grew up with Robotech when it first came out, saw Macross DYRL when it came out and knew about both. It was confusing comparing DYRL to Robotech's Macross Saga for a while. But its not hard to seperate the truth with a little digging and I've been a Macross nut ever since. However, most folks who see my Macross collection (especially in the US) still calls all of my toys Robotech!

So when they see my Strike 1S setup, they search ebay for Robotech and end up with Toynamis. I'm think Yamato has indirectly given Toynami a boost in their sales from creating such a great product and also due to consumers being mis-informed.

Robotech.com does a great of marketing for USA customers where Yamato hasn't and can't do any marketing outside of Japan. Its up to the grey market importers to praise the Macross gospel, which are far and few in between.

[ewilen]

The animation error is on this page, along with a version of the "concept art" we've been talking about:

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=57

[Mechafan]

I say the high bidders on the MPC's are like scand commented on

My opinion is that there are alot of casual Robotech fans that are now finding out that these toys were released. They just jumped on the boat a little late. The only thing they have ever associated with Robotech is HG, hence the buying up of the MPC's. Now if they had some insight into how these thing compared to other offerings and true Macross. I'm sure they wouldn't be spending there money on them.

I saw RT back in 85 when I was in the 5th grade. At that age I loved it and did not notice that bad stuff. Thanks to cable internet in the 90's, I was able to do some real searching and find out the whole story. I am better being enlightened now with the truth. For some the first placed they look might have been Ebay for the old stuff like I did. The Prices $$$$. I would say the MPC seem to be more display pieces than playable toys since the fall apart and are floppy for most. Mines sit on the shelf for the most part. Most fans need to find this site or others like this that are not partial to only the RT side of the story. Once they see the 1/48 Yamato's, then paying $200+ for a VF-1 MPC not a got choice. I say spread the word and educate them. I was one how refused to pay a lot for a valk. I got my first 1/48 at a discount and never look back since. In the end if you are going to spend 200+ than get a 1/48. If you want to spend less than $100 (that's with armor also) than maybe a MPC.

[Jasonc]

When I first started getting back into creating my ultimate toy collection of Robotech/Macross toys, I searched Robotech and Macross. I knew nothing about Macross except that it was what the first installment of Robotech was based on. With that, I found Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross II (didn't know about that one) and it opened up a whole new love for both series. Honestly, Robotech created my love for anime of that genre and made me a fan of Macross. Later (going back a few years), Macross made me a fan of Robotech again. Without both of them, I wouldn't be where I am now in all this. It took one to make the other, and the other to open the door for most of us to fall in love with the one. Sorry if I confused the hell out you bastards. I confuse myself talking sometimes.

Oh, and why do we pay more??? who knows, cause we're still all kids and want what we want, not old people looking for the best deal all the time. The kid at heart in me has caused me to pay some steep prices for items Macross and Robotech that I shouldn't have.

Edited November 23, 2004 by Jasonc

[RTShark]

The animation error is on this page, along with a version of the "concept art" we've been talking about:

Interesting that they're showing the two side by side.

I suppose showing the animation error gives them credence to say "look here, it's canon!" but it's pretty easy to tell that the head in the animation error is significantly different than the Y/VF-1R head...

I like the caption also... "A VF-1R *appears* to be dishing out some discipline to a Zentraedi rebel." (Emphasis mine)...

Wonder how many have fallen for it?

EDIT: And what the $#**& is a "pulse autocannon" anyway?!?

Sounds like they were looking at Battletech and used it's weapon charts to come up with something 'cool' and new. Hmmm.... Pulse lasers... Autocannons... Pulse Autocannon... Yeah! That's the ticket!

(And for the record, I like Battletech, and you can add FASA to the list of companies that Harmony Gold has screwed over).

Edited November 23, 2004 by RTShark

[JB0]

EDIT: And what the $#**& is a "pulse autocannon" anyway?!?

Sounds like they were looking at Battletech and used it's weapon charts to come up with something 'cool' and new. Hmmm.... Pulse lasers... Autocannons... Pulse Autocannon... Yeah! That's the ticket!

(And for the record, I like Battletech, and you can add FASA to the list of companies that Harmony Gold has screwed over).

Presumably it's an autocannon that fires in pulses.

[RTShark]

Presumably it's an autocannon that fires in pulses.

Point is... name doesn't make sense at all. Autocannon already implies that it's a type of automatic gun so the fact that it can fire in bursts is implicit. And who calls the bursts of an automatic weapon pulses?

Pulse tends to imply an energy weapon... and the description of the gun sounds like an energy weapon, so why call it an autocannon at all?

Either word by itself would have been fine. They just don't make anything resembling sense together at all.

Edited November 23, 2004 by RTShark

[jasonkimberson]

OK, I think there are a couple of reasons why MPC's are going for so much.

First off, i beleive most MPC collectors are aware of 1/60 Yamato Valks, and dont like them. I hated the pop off leg action and it really bugged me. (even though i ended up atleast one of each mold)

I actually bought a 1/60 VF-1s way before MPC's were released and thought it was a piece of crap. I paid like 60 bucks for it and hated it. If you played with it, it would get all floppy and end up looking like crap.

When i first saw 1:48's in stores i already hated 1:60's and thought the 1:48s were just super sized versions of the pop off leg action valks. Without research i think many other robotech collectors out there wouldn't know the differance and aren't willing to spend 100+ on a pop off leg action valk.

With MPC's, i like them more than i like the 1:60's and i think basic collectors prob will too. They have the feel of the old school bandai valks but with added detail. The Fast Packs for the MPC's (when you can get them to stay on) are way better than the 1:60 rubber feeling fast packs.

Also another reason why MPC's are going for so much is that we all know how many were made. They are numbered on the box, and with 1:48's they just keep making them. You dont know how many are out there, there were never any production numbers released. Also just when you think you are getting something rare like teh vf-1s (1:48) they go and make a 3rd wave.......With the MPC vf-1s, you know they arent going to make anymore, atleast not in that same box.

Summary Main Reasons:

1. Collectors left with bad taste from 1:60 valks (may think 1:48'S are OVERSIZED 1:60s

2. Robotech Name Recognition

3. Limited Production with individually numbered and signed boxes

4. Known Production Amount

5. Numbered Boxes on the outside, so it pisses you off when you are missing a number (IE 1, 3, 4, 5)

6. Good Marketing plan from Toynami to get the MPC Name out, and Good Stock photos

[EXO]

Summary Main Reasons:

1. Collectors left with bad taste from 1:60 valks (may think 1:48'S are OVERSIZED 1:60s

2. Robotech Name Recognition

3. Limited Production with individually numbered and signed boxes

4. Known Production Amount

5. Numbered Boxes on the outside, so it pisses you off when you are missing a number (IE 1, 3, 4, 5)

6. Good Marketing plan from Toynami to get the MPC Name out, and Good Stock photos

Oh so most of the reasons why people like the Toynami is the same reason I hate them...

I could care less about

1. Robotech Name

2. Limited production and crappy numbers

3. Known production amount (even though now they are saying they never finished the production run... that means it more rare... what it really means is nobody wanted them)

4. numbered boxes.

5. good marketting?.. it's great marketting!!! With Toynami, it's 95% hype and 5% product.

[jasonkimberson]

Summary Main Reasons:

1.  Collectors left with bad taste from 1:60 valks (may think 1:48'S are OVERSIZED 1:60s

2.  Robotech Name Recognition

3.  Limited Production with individually numbered and signed boxes

4.  Known Production Amount

5.  Numbered Boxes on the outside, so it pisses you off when you are missing a number (IE 1, 3, 4, 5)

6.  Good Marketing plan from Toynami to get the MPC Name out, and Good Stock photos

Oh so most of the reasons why people like the Toynami is the same reason I hate them...

I could care less about

1. Robotech Name

2. Limited production and crappy numbers

3. Known production amount (even though now they are saying they never finished the production run... that means it more rare... what it really means is nobody wanted them)

4. numbered boxes.

5. good marketting?.. it's great marketting!!! With Toynami, it's 95% hype and 5% product.

thats why you aren't their target market, but hey you bought up the MPC Alphas

Edited November 24, 2004 by jasonkimberson

[EXO]

Hell yeah I'm not their target market... I don't drool enough when I'm walking...

The Alphas are a grade above the MPC Veritechs. Incomprehesible design choices design choices... but a step in the right direction.

[jasonkimberson]

Hell yeah I'm not their target market... I don't drool enough when I'm walking...

The Alphas are a grade above the MPC Veritechs. Incomprehesible design choices design choices... but a step in the right direction.

that might be another reason why people would want the VF MPC's

Because they are super happy with their MPC Alphas that they want to get the whole set

[JB0]

Presumably it's an autocannon that fires in pulses.

Point is... name doesn't make sense at all. Autocannon already implies that it's a type of automatic gun so the fact that it can fire in bursts is implicit. And who calls the bursts of an automatic weapon pulses?

Pulse tends to imply an energy weapon... and the description of the gun sounds like an energy weapon, so why call it an autocannon at all?

Either word by itself would have been fine. They just don't make anything resembling sense together at all.

Well, it could NOT fire continuously. Fixed 5-round bursts, for example.

Though there's no room for ammo in the head...

Could be rapid-fire energy pulses instead of a single beam.

[Lanessar]

Background:

As a note here, I originally got the Jetfire Transformer when it was released in the US and knew nothing of Robotech until it first appeared in the late 80's on the first US television broadcast circa 1987? Don't quite remember.

I'm a fogey, for sure

Anyhow, since then, I have bought many Robotech toys, Gakken Alphas, Mospeda Climber Cyclones, and the occasional model for destroids and whatnot.

I even remember the old FASA game which totally ripped off all designs for destroids and battloids and made a game called "Battletech" and played religiously in 88-90.

And the ensuing lawsuit which totally changed the game to "Mechwarrior" and drastically changed the 'Mechs.

I first became interested in Robotech toys just last year, where I saw the MPCs for sale, and was going to purchase the whole lot.

I then did a search on the internet for "valkyrie" and "robotech" and, luckily enough, stumbled across these boards last month or so.

After the thorough posts in the boards here, I resolved to get a Yamato 1/48, after actually handling bandais, toynami MPCs and so forth. The pictures of the Yamato had me drooling, the detail and the accessories were...unbelieveable.

After getting the actual thing yesterday off of an ebay auction (via my girlfriend's buyer's account), I just have to say...

It was worth TWICE what I paid for it. I have transformed it twice, and flew it around once, making jet sounds. I can't help it, I'm still 16 at heart, and the wonder and glory that was the original Robotech saga is still a very big part of me.

In fact, my foray into the japanese culture (after reading Shogun, learning enough Japanese to hold a conversation, and earning my brown belt in Aikido) was due primarily to Robotech.

That being said, I understand why most are interested in MPCs. They are far cheaper (which, for people with a budget, is a neccessary evil) and are "okay" at the 80 dollar price tag.

IF you know no better. If you have not actually held the Yamato 1/48, you would never REALLY know. Even after reading the boards, seeing videos with the toy and seeing detailed pics, I worried that a 150 dollar pricetag was a bit hefty for it.

I am now a true believer. I have a job that pays well, is corporate and I have little out-of-pocket expenses. I will be buying a large collection, no doubt, and a shelf to place it on.

I went low for the "test valk" in price, geting the bare minimum I wanted to pay for an expensive toy. Especially after handling the MPC editions.

I am now a Valk-a-holic. This is not a toy. This is...artwork.

Thanks to the seller on Ebay. He's a great guy (I saw him post his valk auctions on the boards here some time ago). There were several doubts posted as to his legitimacy due to using stock pictures from the web. Let me now correct these naysayers by saying, this is the best condition toy I have ever recieved. This man is truely a collector and an afficianado of RT gear.

I would buy any other Valks from him in a heartbeat, and know I was getting factory-fresh MIB.

That being said, I just have to say, let those who are buying MPCs and don't do the research, continue to do so. I need my valk fix, and don't want to run out of Valks to collect. Next purchase will be another Hikaru to "play with" (i.e. let get worn). The one I have is now back in the box, so it does not get harmed, and soon will be in a glass case along with the future Max, Millia and all the others I end up picking up. I'll even shell for the low vis.

Since I have made plans to buy at least 3 G's worth of Yamatos, I'll be getting pretty much anything I can get my hands on, via the Valk Exchange (a great place, BTW) and Ebay for the items that are harder to find.

Thanks Macross World, and all the forum posters/valk-a-holics in it for opening my eyes.

WOW. Just, WOW.

[do not disturb]

welcome to macrossworld!

may your wallet be kind to you during your stay.

[wolfx]

You have been saved. Welcome to the cult of the valkaholics.

As an initiation rite, you have to give ME your 1st valk.

[Skull Leader]

actually, Lanessar,

Battletech and Mechwarrior existed hand in hand for many years. "Battletech" was simply the name given to the board/strategy game version of their product, while "Mechwarrior" was the title given to the Roleplaying game that would focus more on the individual characters than the mech combat itself. There was also a version called "Mechforce" which focused on combat on a regimental level. They all were in production at the same time and it wasn't until later that Harmony Gold got involved.

[Dangaioh]

a trully, trully touching story... makes me so proud to see a "Maccy". *sniff, sniff* tears of joy... I too have joined the ranks of the 1/48th (paid the pre-order), but will have to wait till valk-exchange to start shipping them out again.... maybe a 3rd printing... but nonetheless a 1/48.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

The Alphas are a grade above the MPC Veritechs.  Incomprehesible design choices design choices... but a step in the right direction.

Woah what?

I just purchased the Rook (its still Houquet in my book!) Alpha and I quite regret it!

The thing looks floppy when viewed sideways in fighter mode, and the sprue cuts are incredibly obvious and ugly! An 8 year old kid with a pair of proper sprue cutters could cut better then that!

But the thing that bugs me most is not the obvious and reasonably easy to fix flaws, but the _claim_ on the box liner that its the most accurate representation of a veritech blah blah blah no expense spared blah blah blah. Its like a slap in the face. You don't even bloody bother to mu*@f&**ng cut the parts of the sprue with reasonable effort and you call this a MASTERPIECE?!?!? I got number 947 btw.

If the MPC VF-1 was a grade below the Alpha, I'd hate to think how crappy it would be. I've seen them on display on shelves, doesnt look like its a grade below.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[RTShark]

I even remember the old FASA game which totally ripped off all designs for destroids and battloids and made a game called "Battletech" and played religiously in 88-90.

And the ensuing lawsuit which totally changed the game to "Mechwarrior" and drastically changed the 'Mechs.

OK for the record... FASA did *not* "rip off" the designs. They licensed them from one of the Japanese companies that were involved with Macross (I'm not certain if it was Tatsunoko or Studio Nue). The lawsuit, ironically enough was from Harmony Gold and *not* from any of the original Japanese companies that were involved. (I've been told from those in the know, but do not know for certain myself that FASA was actually in the right in this lawsuit, but gave in simply because they couldn't afford to fight HG in court).

Battletech and MechWarrior originally ran side by side, for a long time, Battletech focused solely on the Mechs and combat whereas MechWarrior was an RPG set in the same world.

FASA eventually went under, which had *nothing* to do with Battletech or Mechwarrior, but rather to do with other lines it made being unsuccessful and dragging the company down. BT and MW were the only really strong lines FASA had going.

Another company, called WizKids, which was founded by Jordan Weisman (a former employee of FASA) bought the rights to Battetech and Crimson Skies from whoever held them after FASA went under and proceeded to make completely new games based on these properties based on it's own system that they designed for MageKnight (figures sat atop a rotateable dial which had a window showing the stats and could be clicked in different directions to show the effects of damage or healing/repair).

WizKids new game is called MechWarrior. They also licensed out the rights to produce Battletech to a German company called FanPro (who originally got work from FASA translating their books into German) who is now producing the full line of Battletech books and miniatures and producing new material for the game under the name Classic Battletech.

Edited November 29, 2004 by RTShark

[EXO]

If the MPC VF-1 was a grade below the Alpha, I'd hate to think how crappy it would be. I've seen them on display on shelves, doesnt look like its a grade below.

hahaha, go buy one and find out...

[Godzilla]

If the MPC VF-1 was a grade below the Alpha, I'd hate to think how crappy it would be. I've seen them on display on shelves, doesnt look like its a grade below.

hahaha, go buy one and find out...

Yeap. Do what the man says and see how bad they are. Technically they are not bad but they are a step down compared to the Alphas.

[do not disturb]

If the MPC VF-1 was a grade below the Alpha, I'd hate to think how crappy it would be. I've seen them on display on shelves, doesnt look like its a grade below.

hahaha, go buy one and find out...

yup! if you do get one, make sure to wear gloves and a blind fold. gloves so you can't actually feel the craptastic-ness, a blindfold so it doesn't bother your eyes when you look at it.

[zeo-mare]

yup! if you do get one, make sure to wear gloves and a blind fold. gloves so you can't actually feel the craptastic-ness, a blindfold so it doesn't bother your eyes when you look at it.

i never realized how bad they were, i have the alpha it is cool, i wish Yamato would make something like this or even Max Factory or someone, but i like mine not quite worth $80.00 got mine for around $60.00.

i will just have to avoid those MPC Valks

[Solscud007]

Can a RT fan even talk about other brands of toys other than Toynami? I thought RT.com haws a naziish style of repressing information and sterilizing everything.

If that is the case that would be your answer to people paying for sub par products cause they are just not aware and remain ignorant

[RTShark]

Can a RT fan even talk about other brands of toys other than Toynami? I thought RT.com haws a naziish style of repressing information and sterilizing everything.

No. No discussion of any Robotech (or related) products of any kind are allowed there unless the products are Harmony Gold's.

I got warnings and account freezes for even the barest hint or mention that other stuff was available. I basically just started e-mailing people whenever they'd ask questions like that.

If that is the case that would be your answer to people paying for sub par products cause they are just not aware and remain ignorant

Quite a few.

The ones that make me sad are the ones who talk about getting an MPC as if it's the greates thing ever and will be the crown jewel of their collections.

Heck, I used to be that person before I actually saw an MPC... <sigh>

[Godzilla]

Yeah well some ppl havent seen the light. And some ppl are stupid.