The Official Aim for the Top! Gunbuster Thread

[chrono]

Yep SUPER UBER Gun Buster! And organic to boot!! But don't you just love the title for ep6. Hellva teaser.

Exuse the radomness of the rambling of the rest of this post because I wrote it while watching ep5.

WHOA!

Could Dix Neuf be the ORGINAL Gun Buster!?

But within the first few minutes of ep5 we have some evidence that it, nono, was either built to welcome back Noriko, was built by her OR that Nono is in some part the orginal GB. But then again the whole Oneesama stick implies that it was Noriko's pilot/partner did it. Oh this is ABSOLUTLY AFTER the orginal because it uses Noriko's newer name.

More on Dix Neuf.

War wear is over 500 years old and old armor from before the sixth recovery, impling that it's been trashed badly several times. With armor at least 40 generations old with a poem written on it "Alone in the snow on the voiceless night of ides, He remains and I pass on." Kinda implying that it was Nono's partner who wrote it. But the WILD thing is that since the Dix Neuf is well over 500 years old, and more if he's lost combat experience because of that 'horn, that means that the Topless have been around for quite a long time and that the Guardian Busters and the Topless have been evolving along side each other for thousands of years. Which could place Nono at several thousand years old. And Aim for the Top 2 at nearly 5-10,000 years after Top1.

Please blow that outta the water by claiming that they had organic tech back in the first GB at the end!

What's up with all of those planets? Have the GB's been bringing in 'new' planets to keep up the systems resources? And what the hell is up with the black hole bomb being moved to the systems edge!? Could the Space Monster been able to move it several tens of thousands of lightyears during it's little 'break-out attempts?

Oh and don't you just love how they threw in that robot scientist. lol!

[Hiriyu]

And what the hell is up with the black hole bomb being moved to the systems edge!? Could the Space Monster been able to move it several tens of thousands of lightyears during it's little 'break-out attempts?

Oh and don't you just love how they threw in that robot scientist. lol!

405951[/snapback]

The Black Hole Bomb was activated near the core of the Galaxy in the original series (Ep. 6). The BH near the Sol system's edge was created by the collapse of the Exilion's warp drive in Ep. 5 of the original (this is why the BH is referred to as the black hole "Exilio" in DieBuster Ep. 5).

[wolfx]

WHOA!

Could Dix Neuf be the ORGINAL Gun Buster!?

But within the first few minutes of ep5 we have some evidence that it, nono, was either built to welcome back Noriko, was built by her OR that Nono is in some part the orginal GB. But then again the whole Oneesama stick implies that it was Noriko's pilot/partner did it. Oh this is ABSOLUTLY AFTER the orginal because it uses Noriko's newer name.

I think the first 5 minutes explained very well what Nono is. The "welcoming back" aspect and why she's awaiting Noriko hasn't been explained though. Imagine if Top2 ended at exactly the same time Top1 ended, and the so-called continent that welcomes Noriko back is in fact Nono controlling her buster corp to shape the words. That would be awesome.

More on Dix Neuf.

War wear is over 500 years old and old armor from before the sixth recovery, impling that it's been trashed badly several times. With armor at least 40 generations old with a poem written on it "Alone in the snow on the voiceless night of ides, He remains and I pass on." Kinda implying that it was Nono's partner who wrote it. But the WILD thing is that since the Dix Neuf is well over 500 years old, and more if he's lost combat experience because of that 'horn, that means that the Topless have been around for quite a long time and that the Guardian Busters and the Topless have been evolving along side each other for thousands of years. Which could place Nono at several thousand years old. And Aim for the Top 2 at nearly 5-10,000 years after Top1.

As Californium has said, yes this is about 10-11,000 years after Top 1, where the return of Noriko is nearby.

Not much is yet known about Dix Neuf and the other French numbered Buster Machines. I hope they resolve it neatly by series end. But somehow Dix Neuf "accepts" Nono when she tried to enter his cockpit, thus there must be some kinda relation. Nono is definately much older than Dix Neuf being one of the original Buster Machines.

After all, Chico's new Buster machine is apparently number 90.(Quatre Vingt Dix) and Dix Neuf is number 19. Dix Neuf is one of the oldest "new" Buster Machines.

What's up with all of those planets? Have the GB's been bringing in 'new' planets to keep up the systems resources? And what the hell is up with the black hole bomb being moved to the systems edge!? Could the Space Monster been able to move it several tens of thousands of lightyears during it's little 'break-out attempts?

What Hiriyu said. I actually forgot there were 2 black holes too.

Edited June 7, 2006 by wolfx

[Seven]

So Black Hole Exelio is the black hole implosion from the gravitational collapse by the Exelion out on the solar system's edge? Where did that space monster come from? Was it a survivor of the original explosion that somehow kept itself from being sucked in and somehow got control over the black hole over time? So while Noriko, Amano and the rest of the old gang thought they were completely successful and went off to the galaxy center, there was that one gigantic monster stuck in that explosion the whole time?

[wolfx]

So Black Hole Exelio is the black hole implosion from the gravitational collapse by the Exelion out on the solar system's edge?  Where did that space monster come from? Was it a survivor of the original explosion that somehow kept itself from being sucked in and somehow got control over the black hole over time?  So while Noriko, Amano and the rest of the old gang thought they were completely successful and went off to the galaxy center, there was that one gigantic monster stuck in that explosion the whole time?

405997[/snapback]

Yeah they said there was a surviving VGW, and it apparently was stronger than the others. The buster corp has been surpressing it within the blackhole for yonks. Overtime it seemed to have evolved and is now able to manipulate the black hole instead.

===================================================

Can anyone answer my question about Faster Than Light travel in Top? Is that their primary mode of travelling in space in Top 2 since they've lost warp technology?

And can someone tell me how does time dilation work in Top? FTL allows someone to travel someplace far within minutes but in fact a few days have already passed in real time. Warp travel doesn't suffer from this time dilation. Its been awhile since i've seen Gunbuster, but why didn't they use warp to recover the Luxion instead they used FTL? I'm guessing Warp was only discovered around episode 6.

The Gunbuster wasn't able to warp back to earth because it has used up its uhhh...Collapser reactor thingy, so I guess it was using FTL to get back to earth. Wonder why the earth ships couldn't just warp and intercept Noriko to retrieve her.

[Vermillion21]

Holy long thread Batman!!

I am a late poster/newbie to this thread ....

Finally managed to read through most of it - I avoided many of the detailed posts on the plot of Gunbuster 2 though!! Sounds like it is getting good.

Like many of you, I loved the original Gunbuster series, I think it was the 3rd or 4th anime I ever saw. From what I gather, there has been no official release of Gunbuster on DVD in region 1, right? What about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Anime-Gunbuster-Aim-Fo...1QQcmdZViewItem

A bootleg?

And many of you have mentioned downloading and/or accessing fansubs of Gunbuster 2, can anyone post a link, please?

Thanks in advance.

[wolfx]

There's no region 1 of Gunbuster yet, I can't view the page you posted either, but highly likely its a boot.

Oh anyway i was reading Noriko's Gunbuster Index and refreshed my memory and now am confused with how warp works in Top. They did use warp from the beginning but every minute spent in warp, 3 months has already passed on earth. I had the impression warp was instantaneous like in Top 2 when Nono warps back to Titan, whereas travelling at near speed of light would cause a time dilation. Gah. Confuzzled.

[Fort Max]

Man, this show is crazy complicated. I can't belive you guys can remember all this stuff.

Vermillion21, I can't see the link either but there is a dvd release of Top 1 that came out in the UK. It's a direct to dvd transfer of the old vhs tapes and lacks science lessions 5/6 & the three short OVA's that accompanied GB: Renewal.

If you can get it cheap (I paid abouta fiver) then it's worth it as the subs are decent and it has a pretty indepth review as an extra feature.

btw, Could someone with some time to spare maybe draft up a list of all the known buster machines?

There seems to be dozens of them now...

p.s. I forgot to metion it but in teh anime on dvd.com fourms I saw a thread with the news that will be a compliation movie combining both Top 1 & 2!

Edited June 7, 2006 by Fort Max

[Dangard Ace]

Another ad. Nothing new but...

[chrono]

As Californium has said, yes this is about 10-11,000 years after Top 1, where the return of Noriko is nearby.

Actually I mean 5-10,000 AFTER the end of Top1, not during Top1. So I'm saying 15-20,000 AD in the Top chronology.

I think the first 5 minutes explained very well what Nono is.

All that's stated is that Nono is Buster Machine #7 that's it! The whole 'welcoming back' thing is a "contruct of wanting a clean ending to Top1" and the 'iffyness' of two things. "Her wish..." and the present tense usage when describing Noriko, throughly known as the Noriri to them already and implying that it's either taught or it's a myth heavly known by they entire society.

Humanity doesn't TRUELY remember it's history. Hell, the captain and the scientist talk about Lost technology and an Age of Gods as myth. And barely knew about black hole exilo. I think that they should pull a NGE and give us a NON-ending.

Thanks Hiriyu! I've only seen Top1 1-3.

[Seven]

In an ironic reversal, imagine that the Exelio VGW warps to earth (with the black hole) and uses it as its own version of a black hole bomb on the center of humanity. I think this is where things are headed in the next episode.

[wolfx]

Thanks Hiriyu! I've only seen Top1 1-3.

406097[/snapback]

Dude.....that makes all your theories half baked if u haven't watched the whole of Gunbuster? But then again I need refreshing too....despite the fact i've rewatched it about December last year.

I probably need to watch the Remastered edition now.

[Hiriyu]

In an ironic reversal, imagine that the Exelio VGW warps to earth (with the black hole) and uses it as its own version of a black hole bomb on the center of humanity.  I think this is where things are headed in the next episode.

406131[/snapback]

Yep, that is how it's looking. Anyone else notice that it warped out not only with BH Exilio, but with planet Vulcan's core as well? Sounds like a pretty nasty triple-whammy.

[Vermillion21]

Wolfx & Fort Max - Thanks for the info guys!

Sorry you couldn't see the link ....

[wolfx]

In an ironic reversal, imagine that the Exelio VGW warps to earth (with the black hole) and uses it as its own version of a black hole bomb on the center of humanity.  I think this is where things are headed in the next episode.

406131[/snapback]

Yep, that is how it's looking. Anyone else notice that it warped out not only with BH Exilio, but with planet Vulcan's core as well? Sounds like a pretty nasty triple-whammy.

406252[/snapback]

Yeap noticed that. The sh*t has hit the fan. I still think my ending would be cool, where Nono (with Jung) welcomes Noriko back. Heheh.

[Keith]

Vermillion21, I can't see the link either but there is a dvd release of Top 1 that came out in the UK. It's a direct to dvd transfer of the old vhs tapes and lacks science lessions 5/6 & the three short OVA's that accompanied GB: Renewal.

If you can get it cheap (I paid abouta fiver) then it's worth it as the subs are decent and it has a pretty indepth review as an extra feature.

That version has a lot of the fanservice edited out though, to hell with that!

[Fort Max]

There's no region 1 of Gunbuster yet, I can't view the page you posted either, but highly likely its a boot.

Oh anyway i was reading Noriko's Gunbuster Index and refreshed my memory and now am confused with how warp works in Top. They did use warp from the beginning but every minute spent in warp, 3 months has already passed on earth. I had the impression warp was instantaneous like in Top 2 when Nono warps back to Titan, whereas travelling at near speed of light would cause a time dilation. Gah. Confuzzled.

406045[/snapback]

I'm going to have to watch Top 1 again but I reckon you're right that Warp is instant & FTL causes the time dilation.

I can't remember now if they just called FTL "warp" as slang or something, i.e. they were only usiong FTL travel but referred to it as warp in order to get the message across to the crew.

[Beltane70]

I'm going to have to watch Top 1 again but I reckon you're right that Warp is instant & FTL causes the time dilation.

I can't remember now if they just called FTL "warp" as slang or something, i.e. they were only usiong FTL travel but referred to it as warp in order to get the message across to the crew.

I believe that in the original Gunbuster, FTL and Warp were two different means of travel.

When they go to FTL, they show the ships accelerating to speed. With Warp, they show show the ships either disappear instantaneously. or enter into a "window" into hyperspace.

[wolfx]

I'm going to have to watch Top 1 again but I reckon you're right that Warp is instant & FTL causes the time dilation.

I can't remember now if they just called FTL "warp" as slang or something, i.e. they were only usiong FTL travel but referred to it as warp in order to get the message across to the crew.

I believe that in the original Gunbuster, FTL and Warp were two different means of travel.

When they go to FTL, they show the ships accelerating to speed. With Warp, they show show the ships either disappear instantaneously. or enter into a "window" into hyperspace.

406482[/snapback]

Apparently there was no FTL travel in the original series but there was always warp, and warp apparently is not instantaneous either. (Remember when they were spending time in warp as they are travelling to the dying star, and they had a "test of courage" in the dark corridors of the ship?) They just said that if you spent so much time in warp, so much time will pass in real space.

Noriko and Kazumi used "boosters" to bring them presumably into sub-space when they were searching for the luxion. If this is true, then why bother having a warp drive? Does warp and FTL have the same meaning in Gunbuster? I am utterly confused now. Some info here, though not much to answer the question.

http://www.gunbuster.it/english.html?http:...it/science.html

[Seven]

There was only one method of long distance travel in Gunbuster and that was by warp, which as you pointed out, puts them into subspace where time still elapses (albeit slower).

Now in the episode where Noriko and Amano find the Luxion, they do not use warp to reach the Luxion. All they did was accelerate using the boosters. Now going by physics in the physics lessons, the greater their speed, the more the time dilation becomes apparent. At no time did they enter warp, since neither the RX units nor boosters have warp, as at that time, only the large ships and Gunbuster had that.

The same thing occurs in episode 5 when Noriko and Amano use Buster Units 1 and 2 to accompany the Exelion to the edge of the solar system. They did not use warp, instead they just accelerated to very high speeds to get there as it was still within the solar system. Remember, short distance warp is not something that they thought was possible, given their surprise that the space monsters do it to them in the last episode.

Another thing to look at is how in both the 2nd episode and 5th where they use acceleration, the clock ticking away faster is given a lot of attention. This is not the case when they depict warp.

When you see Noriko in the last episode, she had been gone to Amano and everyone on Earth for something like a decade, where she only aged a year. This is because they used warp to reach galactic center. Can you imagine if she used acceleration instead to reach there? Time on Earth would have passed on the order of hundreds or even thousands of years as opposed to the decade.

Did I make sense or did I just confuse everyone more?

Edited June 9, 2006 by Seven

[wolfx]

Nah, i was pretty much thinking on the same line as you. I was just confused that warp also causes some kind of time dilation when i thought it was instantaneous. But now that you mention it, using warp was definately faster than acceleration. I guess earth to the galactic center is......very very far that even by use of warp will not be instantaneous, whereas Nono's Pluto to Titan was considered a very short warp.

Thanks for clearing it up, Seven.

[Vermillion21]

So, could someone direct me to where I can download Gunbuster 2 episodes?

Please? ....

[wolfx]

So, could someone direct me to where I can download Gunbuster 2 episodes?

Please? ....

406561[/snapback]

http://a.scarywater.net/lunar/

[Fort Max]

So Nono's warp wasn't actually instant at all and we were all confused for nothing.

I need more SOC pics damnit!

[wolfx]

So Nono's warp wasn't actually instant at all and we were all confused for nothing. 

I need more SOC pics damnit!

406608[/snapback]

It was cuz it was short distance (within the solar system) and to warp onto the planet was quite tricky to begin with.

[Fort Max]

Looks like she actually warped inside the planet, for dramtic effect of course.

[Seven]

Looks like she actually warped inside the planet, for dramtic effect of course.

406712[/snapback]

When you think about it, she should have just warped into the middle of the Exelio VGW and pulled a Shinji and ripped her way out covered in blood. I mean, when your repertoire includes splitting planets and warping INTO them, you'd figure that'd be possible and in character for Gainax.

[Noriko Takaya]

Regarding the time dilation factor regarding warp and FTL travel. Both modes of travel affect time in some form or manner, as seen in the series. I cannot recall the year the Exelion begins its mission, but by the time they return to Earth, it is 2032. I'll try to dig up some info.

[Seven]

The only two methods I ever remember Noriko, Amano, Coach or anything in the physics lessons mentioned were plain old acceleration and warp. There is no FTL, unless you want to think of warp as FTL. I think by their physics, you simply can't go faster than light, but I may be wrong. The way Noriko described warp was just as folding the space between two points using the Taunhausser gate thingamajig to enter subspace, where physical distance would have to be traveled, but to a much lesser extent. When I think of FTL, I see it as a method of travel that finds some loophole to go faster than light, but nothing was ever mentioned about that in Gunbuster.

Now what Nono did, who knows, maybe it was instantaneous or FTL. Her technology has to be more advanced than what the Space Force had during most of Gunbuster.

[Vermillion21]

So, could someone direct me to where I can download Gunbuster 2 episodes?

Please? ....

406561[/snapback]

http://a.scarywater.net/lunar/

406576[/snapback]

Muchos gracias wolfx!!!

[chrono]

Thanks Hiriyu! I've only seen Top1 1-3.

406097[/snapback]

Dude.....that makes all your theories half baked if u haven't watched the whole of Gunbuster? But then again I need refreshing too....despite the fact i've rewatched it about December last year.

I probably need to watch the Remastered edition now.

406136[/snapback]

Well most 'theories' are half-baked until they are proven anyways. And I've been 'right' several times so far.

They've got alot of Nono images in 4chan's /m/ section and that where I found this....

[chrono]

Looks like she actually warped inside the planet, for dramtic effect of course.

406712[/snapback]

When you think about it, she should have just warped into the middle of the Exelio VGW and pulled a Shinji and ripped her way out covered in blood. I mean, when your repertoire includes splitting planets and warping INTO them, you'd figure that'd be possible and in character for Gainax.

406721[/snapback]

Yeah that would'a worked except then you'd have to have an even BIGGER & BADDER boss at the end. Also given as how it crawled it's way outta a black hole environ twisting warp would hardly be a challenge.

BTW now that the Buster's in the shell look like VGW's(aka space monsters) and have grow to such staggering numbers one has to think that the VGW's could very well be someone elses version of a buster machine.

[JValk]

Wow, I actually get to break some news here! This just in!

http://z14.invisionfree.com/gainaxpages/in...p?showtopic=116

And can I say, the news was worth it just so I can run to midtown to pick up next month's Newtype - no way am I not going to pick up art of Nono as illustrated by Mikimoto!

[wolfx]

Gah..90 minutes is short. THey're gonna have to do alot of editting and cutting for the movie version.

[Seven]

Imagine the possibilities tho... NEW animation! If they reanimate some scenes ala Death and Rebirth (Evangelion), then that would be worth it.