mechaninac

But so are the VF-3000 and VF-5000, and the VF-11 borrows more than a little from the VF-1. It is true, however, that Kawamori gets most of his starting points for new VFs from real world fighter aircraft, but not always...VF-4. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you just prefer Kawamori's design style over the artist(s) who penned the mecha from M2. That's cool.

Regardless of how they act, UNS is still Macross' version of a military. That's mostly true, the UNS in canon Macross seem to spend most of their time as babysitters to colonizers, nutty scientists/spiritualists, and playing second banana to peacenik, environ-nut, rock star prima donnas. Technology can make extreme leaps in very short periods of time... in the span of little more than half a decade, air power went from the use of bi-planes flying at around 120-150 mph to jets flying in excess of 550 mph and rocket planes just shy of Mach 1. So, the degree of improvements in Macross do not strike me as unrealistic within the context of a transforming mecha cartoon. I did not make any tank analogies... you must be referring to someone else's comments. And you're basically restating what I said about the M2 mecha: they are evolutionary, not revolutionary. And I'm an engineer too. The "constant conflict" is implied, and the ability to dispatch some Zentradi in short order does not negate that UNS may be constantly running into them. True, it would mostly be occurring in the outward colonies and against the exploration fleets. Exactly. Every decade or so there is a Zentradi incursion that they have to beat back. You can see in the opening of M2, in the faces of the military leadership (Exxegran excluded), just how little concern they have for this latest crisis. They've beaten back the Zentradi before using the same ruse successfully every time. And the Vietnam war ended about 30 years ago, not less than 10. Even the first Gulf war, Desert Storm, clocks in at 12 years from the start of Iraqi Freedom. Like I said originally, the Icarus and Valkyrie II are the zenith of the evolution of the VF-1 design. That's why I like both so much. No sweat.

Welcome aboard! If you're smart you'll run away as fast as you can... nothing short of keeping a girlfriend happy, will separate you from your cash as fast as this obsession of ours tends to do. Run, I tell you, RUN!

@Radd. Again, it is all a matter of personal preferences, purist biases, and nitpicking of a level beyond anal. The VF-2SS is, arguably, an extremely stylized design with very sci-fi-ish lines, to borrow your words (funny that term being used to exclude one sci-fi design from another one); however it deviated from the established VF design lineage far less than the VF-4, and others... if anything, the VF-4 (leaving the VF-14 out on purpose since it harkens to the VF-4) is the biggest paradigm shift in VF design of any other variable fighter within the Macross franchises. In my opinion, all the VF designs that have appeared in Big West licensed OVAs, TV serials, movies, games, etc. are equally valid. @Phalanx. That is the bone of contention of many purists and/or M2 detractors. M2 was a sequel to DYRL? alone, that takes place 80 years after the events chronicled in the movie. Everything after M+ is a sequel to the Macross TV series, but with DYRL? design lineage. M2 is not canon in the accepted continuity but is perfectly valid as an alternate future. In Kawamori's Macross there is a rapid progression of technology brought about by the necessities of supplying all the colonization fleets, which leads to such radical designs as the VF-19 and VF-22; whereas in the Macross II time line, Earth seems to have mostly withdrawn from the cosmos and the technology progression appears to be geared towards refinements of existing designs rather than revolutionary ones, thus we see the Icarus and Valkyrie II as ultimate evolutions of the VF-1's tried and true design characteristics @Seto Kaiba. There is one overriding truth to military development... conflict against a foe of comparable capabilities will spur progress (the military advancement of WWII and the early cold war are prime examples). The "accepted" canon shows a UN SPACEY in almost constant conflict and this, above all, would explain the rapidly expanding capabilities of the VFs and the extreme experimentation with novel designs... always looking for an edge on your opponents -- and it makes for many interesting and unique designs to make into toys and models. With Macross II we have a world that has become complacent in it's approach to self defense against rogue Zentradi... the Minmay attack had always worked in creating enough confusion in the enemy that they became easy prey, until the Marduk incursion with their emulators to counteract the initial shock of human culture/music. It is entirely possible that in this reality, fighter craft evolution was stunted and the Mecha thereof less capable than their canon counterparts. Of course, none of this detracts from the validity of any of the M2 designs; they are as grounded in the design criteria as all the other variable fighters and bombers that grace the Macross franchise. My 2 1/2 cents. PS.: the F-117A predated the B2 by quite a few years. The Stealth Fighter's faceted design is a testament to the computational limitations at work during the design of the "Have Blue (aka. hopeless diamond)" technology demonstrator. The B2 owes its blended shape to work done on a demonstrator called "Tacit Blue (aka. the flying bread box)" and the advancements in computer power that allowed the engineers to calculate radar reflection/refraction on non-angular shapes.

As jenius said, they are somewhere between 1/55 and 1/48... I'd say around 1/50; the pilot, however, is 1/55. The often repeated assumption/lie that Toynami used the old Imai 1/48 kit molds is, however, absolutely preposterous; although similar in overall size, the two are completely different in several proportions, details and execution. It may be true that the kit was used as an inspiration, or even a starting point in the design process, but there is where they diverge (everything else being equal, a simple look at the plastic parts' thicknesses would be all the info you'd need to tell them apart -- kit parts are 1.0-1.2 mm, and toy parts are 1.5-1.8 mm... you can't get 1.5 mm from a mold designed for 1.0 mm).

To my understanding, the power plants in VFs may be nuclear (VF-0 and SV-51 excepted), but the engines themselves are a hybrid ramjet/ion propulsion. In order to produce thrust in an atmosphere you require air to accelerate out the feet thrusters: Air comes in through the intakes and is routed to a compression chamber where it is super heated by a heat exchanger of the nuclear reactor, and this hot gas is shot out the back as it expands to generate thrust, and combustible fuel can be added to the mix to increase thrust by means of an afterburner. In space there would be no air to compress, heat and/or combust, so you'd need to carry your own supply of reaction mass; in this case, the engine could strip the fuel of electrons to accelerate them in a EM field and push them out the exhaust at a prodigious rate of speed to generate forward thrust... you can generate quite a bit of electricity with a nuclear power plant. Or the reaction mass is simply ignited by the heat generated by power plants. Regardless of the working details, even a nuclear powered aircraft requires an air intake to feed the engine in an atmosphere... you need to push something out the back in order to move. The only way that a VF would not need air in an atmosphere is if it carried its own supply of fuel and oxidizer (self contained rocket motor).

My choices, in no particular order of preference, are as follows: 1/72 VF-9 Fighter fixed pose 1/72 Tomahawk (articulated if possible) 1/72 VF-5000 1/72 VF-2JA ... and one that I didn't see on the list: 1/72 VF-2SS I would also like the VF-11, but I'm still holding out hope that Hasegawa may come through on this one within the next couple of years.

Oven cleaners are great... stinky and messy, but great. Stuff like Easy-Off can be liberally sprayed on styrene, ABS, Vinyl, etc without any deleterious effects; just spray the part inside a plastic bag or plastic wrap and seal to let the goo do its voodoo, after about 15-30 min scrub the part with an old toothbrush under warm running water and you'll be left with a paint free part (any left over paint/residue can be easily handled with a second dunking or other cleaning methods).

Most (all?) 1/48 VF-1S Roy Valkyries have the crooked skull problem except the 2nd edition (1st re-issue), as for the Hikaru 1S... don't know since I don't own one. The only things tampo printed onto the 1/48s are the skulls on the fins and heat shield and the kite on the wing, and on the 1Js you also get the "U.N. SPACEY" printed on the legs, but that's it; everything else is on the sticker sheet, which you want to avoid. Anasazi's stickers or decals or Takatoys's stickers are the way to go. Overall, the 1/48s are well worth the money, within reason ($250+ for an original LE Low Vis.... I don't think so...). The first time you see and handle one in person you'll be glad you bought it.

So few words... so many questions...

Can someone please pick my jaw off the floor?!

I remember seeing a program on the History channel about the F-15 where they recounted an incident with an Israeli F-15 that suffered an air collision and lost most, if not all, of one of its wings. The plane was able to recover, fly back to base and successfully land using not much more than differential thrust and sheer speed (it basically flew like a missile with no aerodynamic lift coming from the damaged side), and the pilot wasn't even aware of how severe the damage was until he did a walk-around of the plane... a testament to the survivability of the F-15 and the skill of the IAF pilot. Given the over-technology used in variable fighters in the Macross universe, the resiliency and lightness of the construction material that would have to be used in order to make such machines able to cope with the enormous forces that would come to bear during transformation in atmospheres, the sophistication and redundancy that would need to be built into the avionics of such machines, and the sheer thrust capabilities of the power plants mated to the VFs, I would have to say that most damage that does not affect trust, minimal vectoring of same, and leaves a few control surfaces operable, and does not kill the pilot, could still leave the machine at least able to limp back to base.

Ultimately, it falls to personal preferences/biases. If one is of the opinion that anything that wasn't specifically drawn or blessed by Kawamori is not Macross, even though it appears in a production so named (once you make it and distribute it, you can't unmake it), then the Macross II mecha are to be completely ignored. And if you happen to like all VF designs, even those not sanctioned by the grand pubah himself, which appear in Manga and Anime form with Big West's blessings, then a place can be made for all the Macross hardware, MII included, albeit in an alternate universe that diverges from the accepted canon some time after FB2012 and before M+. The criteria for discussion, however, was VFs that have appeared in Macross and its many incarnations; thus, Starscream and any other transforming mecha not associated with the Macross name (Legioss, for example) are non sequiturs. And you are absolutely right about inclusion discussions; those who don't like the VF-2SS will come up with any number of silly arguments why it can't belong, and those who do will come up with equally silly reasons why it can. It's all one silly mess in the end.

Now THAT I would buy!

I'm not arguing with any of that, but the VF-4 does not, in any way, negate the VF-2SS, or the VF-2JA and MS, from the continuity until M+ is introduced. The VF-4 (my 4th favorite VF design) is a radical looking bird to be sure, but the fact that it does not lead, design wise, to the VF-2SS is not a "real" consideration, IMO, and even in the canon continuity it's only linear descended is the VF-14, if I'm not mistaken; most other VFs (VF-9, VF-17, VF-22 excepted) have a fighter structure reminiscent of the VF-1... arms tucked between legs. If I were to pick a real world example to illustrate my point it would be WWII's P-38 Lightning, with the Black Widow as it's only "descendent". I'm sure there must be plenty of jet era examples, but I can't think of one right now.

My statement was made "tongue in cheek". It was not my intention to suggest that you, or anyone else, made any such implication as to the VF-2SS's design origins. Maybe I should have clarified my point: comparison of inherent strengths and weaknesses, aerodynamic efficiencies and deficiencies, and other "technical" criteria are, obviously fair game; it's the stylistic comparisons that give me pause. The VF-2SS was perfectly fine as the linear successor to the VF-1 and VF-4 until the release of M+; that's when the Valkyrie II becomes a step child in the fighter evolution continuity and relegated to alternate universe/non-canon status. All that aside, I still like the line of the thing, specially without the SAP attached... and the VF-2JA Icarus is no slouch either.

Wouldn't that make Yukikaze's aircrafts reminiscent of the VF-2SS and not the other way around, since the Valkyrie II predates the Yukikaze stuff by about a decade? Personally I think the VF-2SS is a beautiful design, although it deviates a bit from established Macross aesthetics in its Gundam/Patlabor design cues. However, comparing it to anything other than the VF-1 and VF-4 is rather unfair due to when the mecha was penned; all other canon VFs were design after Macross II came out, AFAIK.

I figure I'll get one of each model they release, at least the ones I like... I'm not a completist, and not into acquiring multiples of the same scheme. Here's hoping that the VF-0S is a hit, and that it spawns the entire line of VF-0 models seen in the OVA, and that Yamato proceeds with giving us the SV-51s, Octos, Cheyenne, and GBP and Ghost add-ons.

For anyone who worships packaging, and the words/names printed on them, that would indeed be a disturbing thing... the soiling of a franchise. However, if all you're really interested in are the contents of said packages, regardless of whether or not it's labeled Macross or Roboshlock, then the possibility of getting Yamato's goodies at more reasonable prices and lower shipping costs is a win-win scenario. I, for one, would love to be able to buy a 1/48 VF for less then $130.00 including S&H... not $150.00 + another $30.00 - $40.00 to get it delivered (just look at the relative prices of the Garland). Sometimes, being a purist results is cutting off your nose just to spite your face.

I know... just yanking your chain.

You want Fanta to go after them with needle and thread? Sorry, I could not resist...

377607[/snapback] I like the way they do it in 'Ronin'. Seriously, the lime green GBP is just plain weird. Then again, who am I kidding? I am a completist. So... 377802[/snapback] 378059[/snapback] -- OFF TOPIC -- A "Heat" style heist was tried about a decade ago... both perps were shot dead by the LAPD (I think it was the LAPD) in the ensuing shoot-out, body armor and all. I'd do it the way they did it in "Bandits": case the joint, follow the manager home, abduct him or her in a very polite and friendly fashion, use the manager to hit the bank before office hours, and get away before anyone is the wiser... much less messy that way. -- BACK ON TOPIC -- Just as with the LV2 and Stealth, I think the GBP-2 is a lackluster effort at best, and agree that the "50's Aqua"/cyan bits are just horrid... white, or grey, or beige would've looked 100 times better. And I'm definitely of the opinion that a CF GBP in dark beige, red, and light grey, like Dante74's custom would have been a much more appealing choice, and canon to boot.

Here we go again... While your statement that anime designs are sleeker and more dynamic than their Western Sci-Fi counterparts may be mostly true, there are exceptions (the movie that shan't be named is one example). It often comes down to logistics; most Western Sci-Fi is live action and require that full scale props be built... that tends to place a financial limit on what can be designed/built, specially on a TV budget. Anime is mostly 2D animation with more and more 3D cell-shading being used; this gives the creative team and mecha designers an extremely flexible degree of freedom to conceptualize the hardware to any given universe. Add to the financial factor the fact that different cultures will come up with different design aesthetics. Most Western Sci-Fi mechanical designers will often create more "realistic", rugged designs... probably as a result of the incredible influence that the original Star Wars had on the genre, and everyone who pursued this type of career because of its influence. Oriental artists, while also drawing form Star Wars and other sources, will often design much more delicate, fluid space craft (call it a Zen/Bushido influence)

I have access to the solid modeler (Pro/E Wildfire 2.0) and the SLA machine (SLA 250 w/ solid state laser conversion) sporadically. Unfortunately, the 3D scanner and the facilities and know how to produce silicone molds and do the casting are not in my bag of tricks; add to that the limited amount of time to dedicate to such an endeavor and we have, pretty much, an exercise in futility on my end.

I've said it before and I'll say it again (hopefully this does not violate any rules or infringe on any proprietary legalities; if it does, Mods please delete). The best thing to do regarding the VF-2SS would be to Laser scan all the 1/100 model parts, import them into a solid modeling program to re-engineer the wings so they are able to sweep, break up the legs and arms SAP components so that they can be removable and not an integral part of the fighter, create all the missing pieces for the back pack and other features not present, and work out the transformation components' geometries so that the Valkyrie can be perfect transformation; next, build the resulting models in SLA, up-scaled to 1/60 or 1/48. Make Silicon molds of the SLA parts once they are fully post processed (wash, cure, prime, sand, prime, etc...), and make a Garage kits for all of those who are clamoring for this item to be made... I don't think a toy version will ever be made. Valkyrie II fans would be lining up around the block for this.