VFTF1

Or they're Yamato fans. But Yamato fans have an excuse! It's like when you see a beautiful woman and buy her and she turns out to be broken. Wait... nevermind. I can't do analogies... Pete

I no longer have one! I no longer have about one fourth of my collection...I am slowly becoming free! Free of Transformers after 26 years! Now I can finally binge on Yoko pillow cushions, Death Note RAH figures, FCLC manga, and zillions of other far more interesting things. I wonder...will a pang of nostalgia open up in my heart? Or have I forever turned cold upon the Robots in Disguise? The only thing that came to my mind was that maybe sometime in the future I should get the Movie Transformers... but then I remembered what they looked like Muahahah err...sorry...kind of flying of the handle here Pete

Blue Patlabor at the very bottom. The Macross Quarter - from what I've seen - is going to be very, very VERY awesome. The PG OO Raiser should definitely be first on the list though. Next the Quarter. Max Mazinger and Patlabor...not so much. Pete Your Friendly Anime Addiction Prioritization Service Telling you which drug to take first thing in the morning since 2007!

I miss Captain Donovan. I had hoped he'd stick around and we'd get passed not so much the "hurling insults" part, which is fun, but past the "I like it and have a right to my opinion" part" - which is as boring as a truism can get... I KNOW you have a right to your opinion, like I have a right to mine, and everyone has the right to think what they want. What I WANT to know is WHY you have the opinion you have - beyond just the general explanation that those are your subjective whims/values etc etc etc... Like - I want to know why people actually think that Robotech is a better series than the original Macross? And mind you - by "original Macross" I don't just mean SDFM TV - I mean EVERYTHING that built on that... just like by Robotech I think RT fans don't just mean "the Macross Saga" ... do they? Anyways - why is it a better idea for Protoculture to be a flower rather than an ancient race not unlike ourselves who allowed science to run amock and destroy them, and then tried to preserve their civilization by creating Earth life? Why is it better for the Zendradi to totally go bye-bye after the Macross Saga in Robotech? While they DO show up in "Zendradi Rebellion" the novel - that is no longer "cannon" - right?... So the Zendradi just basically never show up again? Why? What happened to them? Where did they go? Is it really funner to have Invid running around rather than Klan Klan? Not that I like Klan Klan...but heck even she's better than Invid running around...? No - that's wrong. I have nothing against he Inbit either. Invid maybe - but the Inbit are pretty cool, as is a lot of stuff from Mospedia...or was that Southern Cross? I haven't seen either - but I'm sure that when I do - I'll loose even more respect for "Robotech' ...although...can I really loose something I don't have? How can you prefer the dialogue in Robotech? Take the time when Lisa is caught by the Zendradi - literally caught in his hand. Rick shoots him, and Lisa says some sappy crap about how much she loves him, and how she's always loved him... Is that really romantic tension? Is that good romantic writing? I much prefer Misa telling Hikaru that without the microfilm (which was destroyed), she has failed in her mission (aka she speaks as a soldier) and Hikaru saying "I won't leave a girl behind!" (aka treating her not as a soldier, but just as a girl) - and Misa suddenly becomes happy that a man is treating her as a woman rather than purely as an officer. This is subtle, beautiful and creative writing. This is Macross. Robotech trashes all of that and inserts pathos like what I quoted in the above scene. How can you like that? Or maybe there are some stellar literary moments I'm missing. Care to point me to them? Come back. Without you - this thread will just become pictures of Dog Poop. Or am I waiting in vein for a Robotech Defender who will actually sit down here and write a proper defense of the series that will be compelling and thoughtful? Pete

Say what you will, but I've got my sights set on that Mazinger that transforms into the fist of doom. I think that's awesome. Pete

If it's any consolation - mine rolls in horse poop, which doesn't smell as bad as dog poop. But...um...to stay on topic... Rolling in horse poop is preferable to watching Robotech! Pete

Not all dogs eat their poop. JFYI Pete

I'm not a fan of good explanations... good explanations mean people can't fight any more... and I'm like Dancouga - I thrive off of flaming red beast energy For example, observe this: SO YOU INSULTING ROBOTECH FANS AGAIN IMPLYING THEY ARE DOGS!! YOU MACROSS PURIST IMPLY ROBOTECH FANS DOGS BECAUSE ONLY DOG THINKS ROBOTECH BETTER THAN MACROSS IS BESIDE THE POINT. ALL KNOW IT MACROSS SAGA - MACROSS IS SUB-SECTION OF ROBOTECH! FLAAAMMME!!!!! See? Miscommunication, jumping to the wrong conclusion - where would the internet be without them? Pete

As I noted to Gubaba in a pm, I have also noticed that lots of lovely young girls were brought into the world of Macross for the first time via Macross Frontier, which, if you think about it, has much for a girl to appreciate. Pete

Solely the business practices justify the venomous hate and sometimes swearing/cussing and lack of general respect. I agree that the product sucks too - but there are thousands of products around the world which I don't like, but I can't hate people for making or liking them and there is no conflict between "us and them" in the sense that they have their pleasures and I have mine. HG tries to deny Macross fans their pleasures - thus the anger. I agree. And even when HG is making its' "own" product - one cannot help but feel that something is not right. The opening to the Sentinels, where it's basically like "story by HG dude" "animation by HG dude" "design by HG dude" ... and you're sitting there thinking... they might have the RIGHTS to these designs - but come on...the designs of the mecha are from Mospedea...the character templates are from Macross... But the credits make it sound like Macek and friends just thought all of this up from A to Z and created it. It's that conciet which I don't like in them either. Hasbro never denies that Takara-Tomy exists, and the two work together. Sometimes the Japanese go a different route to the Americans - but there is not bad blood and no one ever tries to steal credit when it's not due. But whatever - the best "testimony" to HG is their own Robotech.com website. Nothing interesting whatsoever is there. The forums are basically full of newbies. It's like - take our Newbie thread in the TV and Shows forum -- and that's all of Robotech.com It's all just "hey I remember seeing..." and "can someone explain what..." -- and I think HG likes it that way - the more muddle headed the fan, the easier it is to sell muddle headed stuff to him. I mean - just think about a company that, in the age of Takara Masterpiece Transformers, Bandai's Soul of Chogokin, not to mention Yamato's 1/48 VF-1s goes and calls its' "veritech" toy line.... the "Masterpiece series." And I'm not being mean here. I did a side by side photographic comparisson once of a 1/48 and a "Masterpiece" from Toynami - it's not JUST the metal swing bars on the Toynami that make it lower quality - check the level of detailing on ANY part of the toy. No ventilation grid over the fists in fighter mode. Excessive use of plain smooth plastic - that is to say - no details or panel lines etched into the mold.... the list is long... It's just such an inferior piece - and fine...ok...call it a Veritech action toy or whatever... But the shutzpa of these guys calling their work a "Masterpiece" ... it's like... what universe do they live in ? Pete

Yaaaawn. To repeat for the zillionth time: Robotech spawns hate because HG uses the threat of legal action/force against Macross retailers and likes to enforce a censored view of history upon its' fandom. That's why I hate Robotech and don't even have anything against people like the JamesBond guy you mentioned. I don't think that a company that sends legal threats to little retailers trying to offer Yamato products has any right to expect to be treated with even a tad bit of respect. I think it's perfectly fine to call them names, belittle them and generally look down on them. They clearly think it's a-ok for THEM to use legal threats against people who happen to like a certain Japanese anime and certain Japanese products - so why should they get the benefit of respect? I can respect a Robotech fan for liking Robotech the series as a matter of personal opinion. But the hostility really starts when an RT fan casually ignores or endorses HG's bullying practices. As for the thread being so popular...well...yeah - I agree - it shouldn't be... but then again recently we've had an influx of "I just got banned on RT" stories which were fun to read and discuss, then Captain Donovan shows up. I do hope, by the way, that he hangs around - or has he already left us? Pete

In a couple days, I'll finally have a few kits I've wanted for a while- namely the new v.2 Gouf (Ramble Rah), and the v.2 RX-78-2. Looking forward to building both of them. Might also be tempted to make a green Zaku to compliment my Char's Zaku. Now all I need is MG Rick Doms... Anyways, given the high quality and poseability of my v.2 Char's Zaku and RGM GN, I'm looking forward to these guys - particularly the Gouf! Pete (who has decided to collect only MSG, Turn-A and Unicorn kits)

In the happy Misa pic you can tell she's just faking it. After all- that was the scene where she came back to the bridge of the Macross and was making fun of the expectation that she should be thrilled about where she works... But all nice pics Pete

I think Misa is just sooo hot, and Seto's probably right too. Pete

What is it with you guys and Charly Chaplin, huh? I mean - come on! It was just a COMEDY! And Chaplin did other work. But then again, leave it to Macross purists to be so wild and wierd that they fling mud at people who actually like Robotech and condemn America's greatest comedian for a movie. Personally, I always prefered being behind a girl's fanny - but don't let yourself be drawn into this crude analogy Gubaba is making; because he's obviously doing it to distract from the merit of your post, which has nothing to do with girl's butts and whether a person likes girl's fannies or prefers her boobs. That's just Gubaba's way of attracting attention to himself. Sometimes it's funny. However - it's certainly NOT funny when we still have the serious matter of the length of the SDF-1 to consider. More Gubaba nonesense. Suddenly it's no longer about girl's fannies but about the "back of the bus." How we went from the back of the fanny to the back of the bus - I don't know. But then again - this is from the guy who keeps insisting that Ohnogi novels don't exist even though he purports to have translated two of them - and conveniently there's no Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes or RDF in them... yeaaaah.... and I'm translating the bible into swahili and leaving out God! So - Mr. "Seto always argues using only facts" - how do you know all of the members of Macross world HAVE eyebrows? I do, of course, but some people don't - why don't you reference THAT before making ad hoc claims that eyebrows are being raised when you have NO IDEA if all people here even have them. Seto's reasoning in a nutshell: "facts are what I think needs to happen to support my Macross purist views." Or maybe you can post a link to definitive proof that everyone here has eyebrows? Um - No. The point of that is to figure out what the length of the SDF-1 is - the key issue which you and others keep ignoring. The issue that brought him to this thread in the first place. But instead of discussing that important topic - you keep trying to pick a fight with him while pretending to send him private messages filled with friendly info. But that's Gubaba for you - always talking out of two side of his mouth - and he freely admits it what with his "english and Japanese skills." The only hostility is the hostility you guys have towards Robotech and Pizza - whether it's Pizza Hut OR DOMINOS. Personally - I prefer Papa Johns. But I'm sure you'll tell me that in the "original Macross" (whatever that is), there is no Papa Johns and only Robotech wankers like Papa John's pizza. Why can't we stop fighting about stupid stuff? Lisa or Misa? It's just ONE LETTER - big deal! SAME person! Rick or Hikaru - both have an R in the name - SAME person! RDF or UN Spacey - neither of them share any letters in common which is a sort of oppositional corelation - SAME institution. You guys like to pretend Macross is so awesome - but whatever is awesome there came from Robotech. As for the Yamato valkyrie - the prototypes were stolen from Toynami and swiped for cheap Chinese knockoffs compelling HG to realese them while Yamato got the good stuff. And of course screwed up the flawless quality HG dreamed up. Sheesh. Pete

Wait - there were more parts to the Macross Saga before Southern Cross and the New Generation in general appeared - or is this the Japanese version of Robotech with the advanced Invid species - you know, the one where they find the SDF-1 on some swamp but Rick Hunter is not there for some reason? Also - I find it quite indicative of bias that the first post talks about only the show rights but doesn't address the issue of the original basis of the shows - namely the Robotech novels, which from what I heard were translated into Japanese by Ohnogi and are know as the "Ohnogi novels" in Japan. It's no wonder this is so confusing - by using the name "Macross" in all their shows, it's hard to distinguish the Japanese instalments of Robotech vs. the original ones based on Jack McKiny's novels. In any case, in the final analysis it doesn't really matter. Robotech vs. Macross? Why? It's all the same thing. I think what needs to happen is that people just have to stop fighting this silly fight and enjoy Robotech AND Macross together. I mean - the footage is the same, isn't it? So what if there's some minor translation differences. I don't blame the Japanese for having to change some aspects of the original dialogue that Carl Macek and Tommy Yune wrote based on the McKinney novels. I mean - heck - when Beast Wars Transformers moved to Canada it got called "Beasties" because in Canada they couldn't use the word "war." So - ok - maybe in Japan there are also some cultural differences that made them change certain aspects of Robotech. Fine. But why do Macross purists insist on treating a foriegn translation of the great American epic novels Robotech as if it were better? There is no better or worse - it's just a matter of opinion. Ultimately both shows have the same SDF-1 which is the real issue we need to be talking about, because there's no way that thing can be 1.200 meters in length. First of all, Americans don't use meters and Mckinny's original mecha designs which were drawn by his wife Gina didn't use meters. This is truly a Spinal Tap moment. You remember? 18' vs. 18'' ? Well - this is similar. I appreciate the notion that around the world they use meters and so this was introduced - but I'm curious - what was the original design parameter? Finally - WHY do Macross fans INSIST on talking about a TOTALLY SEPERATE MOVIE - Namely Attack of the Bionards - as if it had ANYTHING to do with Robotech ? I mean - Attack of the Bionards was just some cheap fourth rate rip off of the original Robotech Macross saga. It was so obvious the Japanese were just trying to one up an American tv show - and to this day there are Macross Purists who claim that the mecha designs there are the "definitive" designs for the Macross Saga... How can this be when they are two completely different shows? You guys just keep repeating the rude and insulting Macross purist line and bashing Robotech fans as if they were the cause of AIDS. Pete

Wrong again. None of the MW members here ever advocated banning or censoring people who voice radically opposite opinions; which is why Memo is a member here and posted here. Memo however, doesn't extend the same courtesy to Robotech fans - he actually bans them for being members of MW.com - even though MEMO is a member of MW.com. I would say Memo is a hypocrit - but I think he's too stupid to be a hypocrit even. Maybe that's insulting - but it's more than insulting when Harmony Gold sends threatening legal letters to regular people who happen to be fans of Macross and want to sell Yamato valkyrie. I don't know how much clearer it can be made for you. Just witness the fact that everyone here accepts your right to post your opinions. But hopefully you can distinguish between respecting your right to an opinion and being able to think it WRONG. aka "I can't stop you from saying it, but I don't have to like it." Pete

But.....then...why do you care about the length of the SDF-1 at all? See - this view that it doesn't matter if it's Robotech OR Macross... really? I actually tend to think it does matter. If we're going to try to speak like tech-heads about scientific matters in a fictional universe, it would, I imagine, help to at least agree on what universe we're talking about. I just find it contradictory to say on the one hand that you don't accept explenations like artistic license, but on the other hand you don't care whether we're talking about Robotech or Macross - two completely different shows. I bring this up only because in the case of designs for characters, uniforms and even MECHA - Kawamori has made it pretty clear that the designs from DYRL are the generally "cannon" ones - or at least the ones he prefers. It was DYRL that took great pains to be super accurate with the mecha - including the SDF-1. So the most immediate thing that comes to mind when you say "who cares if it's Macross OR Robtoech is" - well..Macross fans care. Robotech fans might have a "who cares" approach - you'd have to not really care what show it is you're watching to enjoy something that is composed of three different anime randomly put together. Macross fans, on the other hand, DO CARE what they're watching. And if we're going to talk about Mecha and technology and the SDF-1 in MACROSS - then really we need to be discussing DYRL because THAT is what Kawamori has used as the basis for mecha design in ALL future series and THAT is what Yamato and toy/model designers (Hasegawa) have used as the basis for their model designs. And that is NOT Robotech. Are we learning yet? Pete

All I'm gonna say is this: The whole anime industry is doing everything it can RIGHT NOW to lower prices and you guys should NOT wish for it to continue because it is NOT in your interest as fans. There are two ways that this can go: 1) The Good: Prices for anime goods fall at the same rate as prices are deflating in general as a result of the economic depression. This will not be particularly harmful to anime goods as such, because the hope is that as more excess capacity is liquidated in the economy as a whole, so prices will simply come to reflect current reality and an equilibrium will be restored everywhere - including in the world of anime goods. 2) The Bad: Prices for anime goods fall at a rate faster than the general depreciation in prices - this could mean that prices in dollars or Euro fall to accomidate consumers while prices in Yen and Chinese Yuan stay the same which means production costs stay the same and that means prodiucers and retailers are SQUEEZED. When these people are squeezed then eventually one of two things must happen - EITHER the lower prices bring back customers who were lost due to the worsening economy and increase the volume of sales to an extent that compensates for the lower prices by indicating that demand is still high and liable to grow OR the lower prices FAIL to bring in more customers and fail to stimulate existing customers to buy more. Now if the latter happens then eventually the signal that will get through to producers is sad and easy to guess: it's this - THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE MADE FROM MAKING THIS STUFF. If we take into account sales of bootlegged crap or cheap production crap and compare it to the sales of high quality stuff - and it turns out that EVEN at lower prices the high quality stuff fails to move - then we will end up with a return to crap. Meanwhile, the high quality stuff will become an even bigger niche market than it is now. This scenario will ultimately end with prices for high quality stuff being what they were when Studio Half Eye was making its' revolutionary garage kits (which they are still making, but which - quality wise - have been matched by mass producers like Yamato to the benefit of fans like us). I'm not saying you guys shouldn't wish for a fall in prices - it's only natural. Believe me - if retailers and producers thought that dropping prices would increase sales substantially - you'd see it happening because by bringing in more buyers, you offset costs by just banging out more units. The problem is - this might not happen because people have NO SAVINGS in American and to a large extent Western Europe - and any "savings" they had in the form of stock or real estate has evaporated. Ergo, people are instinctively saving what they can - not spending so much. There SHOULD be a light at the end of the tunnel eventually - if governments could just stop propping up the high prices that were artificial results of the credit boom/monetary expansion. Sadly, given what I see of the interest rates in the USA - that's not going to happen. America continues to commit suicide. Europe, as usual, is taking the "moderate/middle of the road" approach - aka they are driving in the center of the road and will be hit by traffic oncoming from both left and right. Only China is doing things correctly - expanding their gold reserves and now signaling that they will begin to gaurd against inflation given that they've achieved 8.9% growth that seems to be nothing more than an asset bubble. In any event... the little anime industry is just one small part of everything that is going on - and they ARE lowering their prices actively. The problem is - there might not be enough of us crazy people left to keep it all going at the rate we'd like to. Does this mean the dissapearance of all anime toys? No. But it could mean that some awesome projects and designs will be shelved due to cost - or limited. In any event - things are in rapid flux. I just think that fans should be worried - not happy - about falling prices for anime goods. Because remember that a price is a signal to enterpreneaurs: when prices are high - this signal says: people WANT THIS - invest. That leads to innovation, better products, more products, and ultimately cheaper costs per unit. When prices get depressed very low - this is a signal to enterpreneaurs that says: nobody wants this. That's not a signal that anime fans should want to send out to the market. Not saying it's anybody's "fault" - I'm sure people would buy more if they could.. But it's not a simple case of "if only they lowered their prices" Pete

And that's why I'm so jealous of Seto. I'm obnoxious too! I hate Robotech, and I'm a Macross Purist and I keep bashing Robotech and HG and nobody sends ME hate mail. But I figured out why. It's because Seto actually KNOWS what he's talking about. People can't bring themselves to hate me because most of what I say is just coming out of my ass. But Seto actually does real work to get knowledge - and knowledge always makes people mad. Pete

You know - personally I always prefered Dynasty. I could never get into Dallas. I don't know why. But Dynasty - man I followed that one like some fanatic. I loved it. I didn't particularly have any favorite characters - but I just liked following the twists and turns of the soap opera. Looking back, I find the whole "Blake rebels against his son's gay lover" story arc amazingly fun to watch. I hated the Alexis vs. Crystal cat fights when they resorted to those. But in general - I just liked the sappy drama. So - with all respect to Dallas fans - it's not like if you haven't heard of it until today then you're a nobody. Maybe you're like me? A Dynasty fan. Pete

Dag. Class got cancelled so I'm stuck sitting in a cafe and while the waitress is cute, she's only interested in serving me coffe So...I got an hour...back to MW re: the length of the SDF-1... I'll admit that this is kind of a comedy moment. It's like coming into a bar and doing everything possible to try to pick a fight and then, when you have everybody's attention you're like "So - where's the toilet?" But whatever - this thread DOES provide infinite amusement But yeah - Captain - stay for the tuna. Don't be turned off by having everybody against you and saying bad things about Robotech. Try to understand two things: 1) People actually have authentic reasons that are documented in pages and pages of posts as to why they prefer Macross. In fact - here's one reason that I wonder whether you've even considered: lots of people here HATE dubs. Even if they kept the dialogue the same and made a perfect translation into english, keeping the plot the same - I'd STILL prefer to watch it in Japanese with subtitles because to me, it's just better. I like watching foriegn films in the original language, as they were meant to be seen, and relying on subtitles. Of course, Robotech isn't just a straight dub - it's a complete re-doing that ruins the original story. 2) Some people here were personally hurt by HG's "cease and decist" orders - like Kevin. It's not nice dedicating your self to an anime and getting into legal trouble for it. It totally sucks - so there are a lot of personal emotions going around. For better or for worse - THIS is the legacy HG has crafted for itself - and Robotech fans who try to pretend that they're just enjoying their show without addressing this problem are doing a disservice to themselves. For all the times I defend Yamato, for example, I do agree that Macross fans would be brain dead sheep if they just gobbled up EVERYTHING Yamato had to offer - broken arms, exploding shoulders, cracking hips etc al - without making a peep. Anyways... still waiting for the explanation of how it was "genius creativity" when Dolza says "Protoculture!" when Lisa and Rick kiss Pete

I just wanna add one more thing about the "boo hoo you're mean to Robotech fans" vein and then I actually have to go do some work (who would have thunk it!)... Namely this: How many times have I opened a Macross 7 thread here on Macrossworld with tons of people, and not just "regular" fans like me, but mods, complaining and accusing that Macross 7 sucks, is gay, is stupid, the concept is terrible, the villains are childish, Bassara is a hippie idiot, etc etc etc? How many times have I opened a thread of the "who do you love most?" type and found myself to be almost alone in loving Ranka, Bassara and other Macross characters that everyone else hates? But have I EVER expressed the opinion that people were being rude to "Ranka fans" or "Bassara fans" ? No. Because people are just expressing their opinions - and MW is great because everyone says what they want. The only thing that is a bannable offense is if you show sexually explicit content, swear at peoplel, get into partisan political or religious debates or bring up Robotech Pete just kidding on that last one - by the way... Clearly the Captain is a refugee from a Robotech site - after all - he takes too much far too seriously - as if they kind of conditioned people over there to be on edge about everything because thoughts could get you banned Anyways - welcome to MW and hope you stay with us!

Paging Mr. March for SDF-1 size question please. Pete

I have the Art 3 book about Sentinels as well. I played and enjoyed the Palladium RPG. I have three novels out of which I think Master's Gambit is boring, Planet Killers is crap and Zendradi Rebellion is a good story. Any Robotech fans who wish to go deeper into these three novels - I'll be happy to pick them apart for you. In brief: Master's Gambit: The computer hackers part of the book takes up way to much time and is just too much of a diversion for my liking. I kind of try to appreciate what they're doing there, diversifying the plot, focusing on technology without necessarily focusing just on big mecha kicking the crap out of eachother - but the characters seem dry, and I was expecting more about the Robotech Masters and less about the hackers. The book just put me to sleep. No - I didn't finish it. Planet Killers: This book was so bad, that I couldn't stop reading. It was like watching Borat - it's so juvenille and ridiculous but at the same time compelling. The battles scenes were like something dreamed up by a three year old playing with his Transformers on his bed. The dialogue between the characters was like something out of a He-Man movie. There were way to many images of people living like in Super Mario Bros. 2, floating on rugs and stuff. Crystal meth, and those horrible horrible "pussy cat" dialogues between Rick and Lisa while in battle on a giant space ship. P-yu. Zendradi Rebellion: Maybe I liked it so much because it was like a "third" season of the original Macross saga, which is the only part of Robotech I consider worth any good anyways (although totally deficient compared to Macross because it replaces a wonderful story about love and music conquering war making with a craptastic tale about a super galactic flower that gets people high) - anyways - I liked how Lyn Minmey bacame a tool of the government and was totally consumed in a bad way by her new life. I also liked the Zendradi rebells and how there was rebellion brewing against the RDF - and all the political dialogues were fairly well written IMO. There - that's just a taste of my commentary on Robotech. I also piloted a MK II Monster when playing the RPG when I was 7. I acknowledge the important role Robotech played in being a primer on Japanese anime in the Western world in an age before the internet. Now... Is there anything you want to discuss about Robotech or do you have questions about Macross or are we going to start a revolution in hopes that Graham will read your highly persuasive posts and change the name of this place to RobotechAndMacrossAreFriendsWorld and we can all smoke some Protoculture joints while listening to We Will Win? and watching Shadow Chronicles on Hulu? Pete