sketchley

Seriously, dude. It's gotten to the point that the sheer volume of falsehoods and mistruths you're posting about me has made me question the veracity of the rest of your posts. Which has begged the question: what's the point of trying to have a serious discussion with a liar? There's no point.

Will you STOP putting words in other people's mouths, misreading their posts, misquoting them and misrepresenting them on this and other forums.

I'm getting strange results when I google BOT structure. Can you provide a link to the source article/what BOT means? (Feeling a bit shamed that my Google searching skills failed me)

Oh, good. I thought I had misplaced a sheet. So, that's two "MIA". The errata page only lists 3 sheets that had the wrong page numbers: SDFM 19a UN Forces Vehicles (reprinted in issue 11) Goods 08 Character Goods (sticker in #21 Worldguide Maruduuku 28a (errata notice only) So... planned and not printed? Saving for a reprint or a follow-on series to cover the two MF movies? (fingers crossed!)

Two-page spread. There's a VF-17 and VF-171. They're still on the Macross. You know, the part that was cut off on the right side?

Definite maybe. Definite. (Is it just me, or is one of the DYRL UN character sheets missing? Referring to Character DYRL UN #9).

Macross Frontier Theatrical version second movie title and planned release date announced in Macross Chronicle #50 Planned release date: Winter 2010 Title: 劇場版マクロスF～サヨナラノツバサ～ (Theatrical Macross F ~Wings of Farewell~" I have a feeling that this means that the first movie (False Songstress) will be released on DVD/BR at about the same time.

Content review #50 (going to miss these biweekly reviews) This issue is a MUST. For one reason. More on that later: Mechanic: M0 UN 05a: HWR-00-Mk IP: whole lotta awsome, but sadly all or the majority of the lineart is what's been printed in the guide books that came with the M0 DVDs. Extra report on the Monster series (M0, SDFM, MF) SDFM UN 01D: SDF-1 Macross ship interior (machines, military bases/hangers, etc) M7 Var 02a: Az-130a Pantaazorun: a lot of data cramped onto one page... nevertheless, nice to see the development: VF-4 > VF-14 > Az-130a MF Cit 02c: VF-25S Messiah: front - super parts, reverse: VF-25 transformation (mostly standard, but a smaller segment on fighter to GERWALK with the armour pack) MII UN 02a VF-2JA Ikarosu: nothing unexpected. Note: no painting. DYRL Mel 03b: Merutorandi Forces Naval Fleet: interesting, but I'd had hoped that there would be more than a paragraph or two per ship. Ah well, a paragraph is better than nothing. Extra report: the Merutorandi medium gunship that became the SDF-1 in the movie/MII chronology. Character; DYRL Cit 01c: Rin Minmei - wardrobe from the final 1/3 of the movie. Extra report on Rin Kaifun. DYRL UN 08a: Buruuno J Guroobaru - extra report on the UN military personnel that boarded the Macross (supplimental bridge bunnies and command staff) Timeline 00: Protoculture history and mankind's progress: very, very, very intersting. But very, very, very, very small, dense text. From 20,000,000,000 BC to Sept. 2059 AD. History SDFM 16a: Rin Minmei Opertion - awesome front illustration. Extra reports on: "the hidden power of song" and "Operations that made use of song" Worldguide: 03a: Protoculture FTW. Extra reports on "Protoculture Ruins" and "overtechnology after that" Technology sheet 01q: VF series chart: front - wicked awesome Tenjin painting (not only signed, but dated by the artist). Reverse is the lineage. Some noteable content: SV-52. Pheyos Valkyrie, Stampede Valkyrie, VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie are "unknown" where they fit in. ALL the rest of the VFs that appeared in MC fit in somewhere. Most interesting is that the YF-24 is developed in 2040 (!), the YF-24 Evolution in 2057 (!!), the VF-171 in 2046 (!) 16a: Macross class and successor ships - a whole lot of awesome. Reverse has a colour coded chart showing the battle and residential sections of the various Macross ships (Megaroad, Macross, Macross Quarter, Macross 7 and Macross Frontier). Extra reports on: "the residential faculties of Zentraadi warships" and "Ships of the same shape as the Macross warship(s)" (Battle 13, Macross 5, Macross Galaxy are featured) Extra sheet: Tracks of the Macross Series: all productions and release dates from 1982.10.03 (SDFM broadcast start) to 2010.winter ("Theatrical Macross F "Sayonaranotsubasa""'s planned release date) Extra report on "Kamishakuji station's message board" (from April, 2010, the sign board features Macross. It's the closest station to Studio Nue" Cover Collection: front all 50 covers. Reverse: message from Shoji Kawamori. Reverse cover interior: the reason to buy this issue (like you need one anyways): errata from #1~50. Eg: issue #48 page 21 worldguide Maruduuku, sheet number 22a, problem sheet number, error 22a, truth: 28a. There are a lot of entries (about 1/4 in issues 1 and 2 alone!), and it's something very high on my must translate list. (Before anyone asks: yes the VF-19 is there. But only the Fire Valkyrie version.

Patience. Some of us have to work and only have time to post after getting home.

Agreed that it's appeared in this forum before. Not sure when, exactly. Around the time of MF sounds about right.

But where does it say that a lower maximum thrust in space equates to a sacrifice of combat ability? In space, VFs are primarily mobile platforms to fire ordinance at targets at long range. Combat in this regime would require manuevering, which relies mostly on the vernier thrusters - which have been indicated as being the same. The lower max thrust would only inhibit the ability to catch-up/run away and would be negated by FAST packs/super parts anyways. Nevertheless, Graham is right in that this discussion should be put on the backburner into further material is translated. This discussion is based on only three lines of text out of two publications that have tens of thousands of lines of text. It may just be a molehill being blown up to epic proportions.

This makes sense, and is in-line with an elaboration I was thinking about all day at work: The only parameters we have been presented for the VF-19E/F/S/P is in space. Therefore, we know that the listed thrust is the maximum that the engines can produce in ROCKET MODE. MC has given additional performance info in text on the performance in atmosphere. Therefore, we know that the VF-19S has greater performance in TURBO-FANJET MODE, and the VF-19F has lesser performance. As the reasons why it has better turbo-fanjet mode performance haven't been given, it's speculation as to why. The simplest, real-world sound explanation is that the VF-19S's engines have a higher bypass ratio. (For those that don't: an increased amount of air sent around the engine to mix with the exhaust to provide more thrust per unit of fuel (or less fuel to achieve the same amount of thrust.) Back to fact and inferences: It is most likey that whatever is increasing the turbo-fanjet mode performance has a detremental effect on how much propellant can be pumped into the engine in rocket mode (ie additional tubes and vents to achieve a high bypass ratio limit limit the volume of propellant that can reach the combustor). Now back to the parameters: We only know that the amount of thrust is for space. Do we know if that's sustained thrust or instantaneous thrust? Do we know if the max level of thrust damage the engine or if there is a performance loss the longer the engine is operating at max thrust? Perhaps the VF-19F cannot sustain their higher max thrust levels in rocket mode, but the VF-19S can. From what I've gleened from the text, it's the general issue VF-19S, and not the specs for Docker's VF-19S. Nevertheless, it does make sense that the command model would be required to have a more general-purpose engine performance.

Thanks! VF-19S, Engine Thrust: 68,500 kg (max thrust in space) x2

TLDR. Tone down the rhetoric, please and thank you. VF-19F 72,500 -> 78,500 := difference +6,000 VF-19S 68,500 -> 68,950 := difference +450 Negligible increases (especially compared to the 1st revision's +10,450!), and it also goes to show that Mr. Kawamori is continually refining as new, RL technology is introduced.

I agree that it's in the book. However, it was not drawn by Mr. Kawamori (see credits pg 41 of the Hobby Handbook). It doesn't look like Mr. Kawamori was even involved in the book, aside from the blanket "Direction: Studio Nue" and "Cooperation: Studio Nue". It also begs the question of: if it was official, why was it not published in Macross Perfect Memory, published only 5 months later, on 1983.10.10? Therefore, from the evidence, it's strongly indicated that it was a fan-fic creation that was later adopted officially. Ergo: an "official" revision.

Let me help you comprehend the Macross Compendium: See: http://macross.anime.net/feedback/index.html Specifically in a November 2005 FAQ response: Meaning: the original data is in [], the revised data is not. As for the rest of the post -> check your facts first before venting.

Hmmm... no one else answered this. Well, for the original, see: Macross Perfect Memory pg 158, 159 revised transformation, see: Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works pg 036 Macross Chronicle Mechanic SDFM UN 02D, E VF-1J He removed the anime magic by using the actuators that move the air intakes/upper legs out of the way to allow the arms to fold out from jet to GERWALK, to move the legs down to the nose cone. What was the anime magic? The legs detached completely from the airframe and floated down to join the hips. Fun with pictures: notice the different art style in this picture (drawn during the SDFM era) vs. this image (I presume it was drawn post M7 Dynamite, as it doesn't match the VF art style of that period nor is it printed in Macross books from the M7 era, like TiAS:M+)

The very light gray shaded area is "moveable/mobile panel" medium gray is: "mounting plate" dark gray is: "main wing part/side actuator mount" The wing-glove upper and lower bulges are also described as "moveable/mobile panels". So... it looks like both the wing AND the wing glove deform in order for the wing to swivel. Neat.

Text mentions that it's for attacks against terrorists and aliens. In addition to the dual laser turret (REB-33D), the wing-glove lasers have greater output (REB-35), and it has the FF-2550J/rev.2 engines (same as the VF-19E/F/P). And because of those engines, it has a lot more power (electricity), thus it can use the PPB in fighter mode, and can use it on the wings and nose, and something about hyper concrete shelters (ram attacks? Slices with the wings? Don't have the time to do a proper translation). But I agree, it's hokey.

An update on this: in a recent PM conversation with someone who will remain annonymous (otherwise I feel they'd have posted the information themselves), the original Macross Compendium has had the information all along (original thrust ratings highlighted) http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nations/variable/vf19/index.html Macross Chronicle gives the VF-19S 68,950 kg x2, and the VF-19F 78,500 kg. The VF-19 Master file gives the following thrust information, YF-19: 64,700 kg x2 (space), 56,500 kg x2 (atmosphere) VF-19A: 66,200 kg x2 (space), 57,200 kg x2 (atmosphere) VF-19B: 66,200 kg x2 (space), 57,200 kg x2 (atmosphere) VF-19C: 66,200 kg x2 (space), 57,200 kg x2 (atmosphere) VF-19D: 66,200 kg x2 (space), 57,200 kg x2 (atmosphere) VF-19E: 78,500 kg x2 (space) VF-19F 78,500 kg x2 (space) VF-19S 68,950 kg x2 (space) VF-19P: 62,950 kg x2 (space) VFA-19A, VEF-19D, VEF-19E, VC-19V, VRF-19D: thrust not listed Thoughts and observations: - the max thrust for the VF-19S has gone full circle back to approximately where they started. - is it possible that the manufacturer of the product that gave the VF-19S a greater thrust made a typo and accidently reversed the VF-19F and S thrust stats? - The max thrust of the VF-19F/S are NOT given for in an atmosphere. Does the S have higher max thrust than the F in an atmosphere? Text in Macross Chronicle indicates it is so. - There is a noticeable drop in thrust after the VF-19F. Why is that? We know only one thing: the VF-19S and VF-19P have more functions (additional head lasers, speakers) than the VF-19F. Could the drop in max thrust in space be due to the requirement that power be used elsewhere? Could it be that despite any (relatively small) increases in thrust with the "more advanced" engines in the VF-19S and VF-19P, the increased power demands of the additional equipment effectively reduced the max thrust in space? Heck, as the VF-19P uses the exact same engines as the VF-19F (albiet a revision or two greater), isn't it interesting that they have significantly reduced max thrust in space? Hmmm Anyhow, I'm still interested in knowing where the numbers come from. Though, given the information that's been on the Macross Compendium all along, I think there's a less pressing demand to know where the numbers came from.

I've been getting sidetracked making stats for the ol' RPG: Mechanic: MF Citizen 03a VF-25F Messiah (partial translation): http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2541.msg38776#msg38776 The good/bad news is that I'm currently targeting the VF-25, and am locked onto the Super Pack, Armour Pack, and Aegis Pack. We'll see how far along we'll get before the steam runs out. Oh, and yes, the "targets" of the VF-25F sheet were entries that looked like they'd provide the most *new* information for the effort. The fighter mode section makes me wonder how different the other variants are... especially with the talk of being a "picky" airframe :!:

Gah... sometimes it sux not to be in Tokyo. Mind you, with that play schedule, I wouldn't be able to make it anyways (work on Saturday, and once you have kids, going to movies after 24:00 begins nigh impossible. Sleep becometh a valuable commodity.)

The Bandai 1/100 VF-19 "Blazer Valkryie" seems like the most likely source. Anyhow, I'll tell you where the data is not (so it'll help the search): TiA: M7 TV Animation Materials TiAS: M7 Roman Album: Fire Bomber Formal Programme in Macross 7 Shouji Kawamori Macross Design Works Shouji Kawamori Design Works Figure Ou No. 77 "Macross Chronicle" Macross Digital Mission VF-X Guide Great Mechanics.DX 4~12 Great Mechanics 76, 88, 93, 95, 105

Where has the translation to this been posted? EDIT: I was PMed the line of text, in Japanese. Nevertheless, the question still stands: has a translation of that article been posted online?

What's with the pissy attitude? You were asked what your source was, a simple "the Macross Compendium" answer would suffice. 2nd, if you're going to diss people who accept the changes made in Macross Chronicle, than you have to be equally accepting that not everyone accepts the data in the Macross Compendium as being free from error. 3rd perhaps you'd have more doubt in your source if you have had found mistranslations and inconsistencies. See point 3 about mistranslations. Were the two numbers accidently swapped by the translator? That's the root of my questioning. Now, believe you me, I checked in my substantial collection of Macross and Macross related publications before asking the question. The data's not there. Which leads me to think it might have appeared in some other trade magazine (ie: Great Mechanics, Model Graphix) and not one of the "official" publications that bear the Big West stamp (ie: TiA:M7 TV Animation Materials, TiAS:M7).