Mr March

Ah, so FAST Packs worked well as appropriate real robot terminology in early Macross and just happen to be appropriate for the YF-19/21 in Macross Plus. When space operations became more pronounced in the action, like the VF-11 in Mac+ or the space battles of Mac7, they decided to differentiate using the Super moniker from the old VF-1 series. Thus, Super Parts/Super Packs. I suppose if the newer books add more detail not found in the older books, that’s a bonus. Being unable to translate them en masse, I’ve been content with translating just bits and pieces that add detail. I’ve been wary of superceding anything stated on the Macross Compendium unless I know for certain. I think overall the use of Super Part/Super Pack is probably more useful than not. I have no problem using Super Parts or Super Packs in the descriptions. I’ll just make sure to add some notes for reading clarity (especially in a new section opening up next update). So, as I understand it, we have: VF-1 Super = FAST Packs (space only) VF-11B and C = Super Parts (space only) VF-11C = Atmospheric Super Parts (the pointy ones on page 121) VF-11D Kai = Super Parts (space and atmosphere) VF-17 = Super Packs (space and atmosphere) YF-19/21= FAST Packs (space and atmosphere) Ghost X-9 = Super Parts (space and atmosphere) VF-19 = Trans-atmospheric Booster VF-22S = Super Parts (space and atmosphere) VF-5000 = Trans-atmospheric Booster Pack (with Super Parts in rough page 129) VF-3C = Trans-atmospheric Booster

Oh no! I wasn’t really going for an exhaustive list, just answering the question while noting exceptions exist. But now this brings up another question: if there is indeed a difference between FAST Packs and Super Parts/Packs, was there a change in nomenclature between the SDFM-era versus the Mac+/Mac7-era? Designations for the VF-1 use terms like “FAST Pack” and “Super” interchangeably and those units were space only. I suppose I’m also thrown off by the common usage of the terms on the Macross Compendium and a desire to create readable entries for the M3. I know the compendium isn’t foolproof (Fulbtzs-Berrentzs debut anyone?), but I do rely on it as the definitive english work on the subject. This then raises another possibility; are the literal terms/translations really to be taken literally? Super Part may be more correct, but are these units not all functionally FAST packs anyway? Naturally, I’d love to be as accurate as possible, but there’s also much to be said for concise information across multiple sections/entries. The first time FAST Pack is defined, the reader comprehends. If I then write “Transatmospheric FAST Pack” for the YF-19, it’s easy to understand rather than throwing off the reader with “Super Parts.” Sure we could go FAST Pack=Space Only, Super Part=All Environ, but then we have Super Pack. As well as the added confusion that real world FAST Packs are not space only Then comes the last question: is there any order of canon for my books? If my Macross Perfect Memory book says one thing, but my Shoji Kawamori Design Works book says another, which book takes precedence? Sure I’m inclined to use MPM, but is there any way to know for sure?

Hehehe, these are great "would be" products. I like the crazy VF-4 box

The YF-19 has internal pallets in the engines/lower legs that can store various types of missiles. In Macross Plus, the two big missiles the YF-19 launches at the YF-21 appear to come from the internal leg bays, which is why the FAST packs in those sections lift to allow missile egress. Shortly thereafter the YF-19 is shown firing micro-missiles in Battroid mode from the leg packs, so I think it's safe to assume this much. Grebo Guru did an exhaustive analysis of this which pretty much stands as the most detailed description of the Macross Plus fight that I've ever seen. All the Valkyries have vernier thrusters built as part of the standard designs and can function in space without FAST Packs just as well. All the official statistics list various vernier thrusters and many drawings specifically show the vernier thrusters on various sections of the hull. To my mind, any protection from the FAST Packs are negligible. The packs are not placed anywhere along the hull that would provide significant protection from the typical angles of fire to which a variable fighter would be subjected. The official literature states the packs enhance performance of the valkyries beyond an atmosphere (excluding the cases of the YF-19/21 and VF-17 specific sets), typically providing larger thrusters for maneuvering, more weapons and more fuel for longer operations in the vast distances of space. I suppose smart pilots can use the ejection systems of the FAST packs to act as one-time makeshift reactive armor, but that certainly isn't a design feature.

Oh, the humanity! I don't think I've ever seen a show as willingly butchered as this. The stereotyped cast is about the worst I've ever seen and that animation is awful. I guess things really could have been worse

Don't you want the buttons to be jarring and thus, easily identifiable? I really like the way the new buttons stand out. It makes finding and selecting them easier.

Hurin you have outdone yourself. This new skin looks fantastic. I love it! This matches so well with the main website and it's the perfect time to introduce a new skin for the forums. Well done!

Ah, interesting link. Thanks eugimon. That makes much more sense. Like you said, this particular sci-fi technology pairing is just clever name dropping. Well then, it must be some other type of engine they use in Macross. And Kawamori and co. are probably wisely vague on the subject

Recton = Rectroactive Continuity. Recton definition on Wiki

Yes, I understand that. But ion drives powered by superior high-power generators burn more reactant in significantly shorter time and produce that much more thrust. Yes, ions are low mass but with enough power to expel more of them quickly and efficiently, you get high velocity thrust over a short period of time. Yes, far more reactant is consumed much faster than compared to low-power, low-velocity ion drives, but as I understand it the ratio of thrust-to-mass efficiency does not change until you get into significant fractions of the speed of light or significant vehicle mass. So reasonably scaled up ion drives should still enjoy superior thrust-to-mass ratios. Perhaps I'm understanding the concepts incorrectly (quite possible, since I'm not an expert). I know this is just all speculation, but I was under the impression this combination would theoretically work.

But wouldn't the YF-19/21 still benefit from FAST Packs? The FAST pack sets on the YF-19/YF-21 are significantly smaller than those of past generation variable fighters, most likely because these new fighters are so much more efficient for space flight already (as you surmised). The official literature does indeed confirm the two dorsal FAST Packs on the YF-19 are propellant tanks, so it's likely they are used for either vernier thrusters or long range additional fuel. But becuase the YF-19/YF-21 are so fuel efficient as it is, they require very little additional "long-range" fuel and so, much smaller FAST packs. Though Valkyries are likely very fuel efficient, they still require some fuel, no matter how small that may be, comparitively speaking. So the YF-19/21 would still benefit from FAST Packs for various mission profiles, but rely on them much less than previous variable fighters.

I agree that conventional ion engines are slow. But didn't I just address why the differences would make them practical in the Macross universe? Conventional ion engines use heavy, low-power conventional power sources for low velocity flight, but the advantage of electromagnetic propulsion is efficient use of reactant mass. In the Macross universe, OverTechnology has given humanity a style of fusion generator that is light weight and produces an incredible amount of power with efficiency even beyond real world fusion (according to the compendium). With such a power source, ion engines could be built that can produce high velocity thrust and still retain incredible reactant mass efficiency. Thus allowing them to propel fighters and other space craft at significant velocities using very little fuel. Macross would by no means be unique in this matter. The vast majority of science fiction from Star Wars to Babylon 5 has made use of the fictional pairing of ion drives/fusion generators as a plausible futuristic form of space flight propulsion. I'm assuming that since Macross uses fusion fiction, they probably are using an ion drive variation or similar kind of technology. In which case the valkyries need very little fuel to operate. The FAST packs would probably be used for vernier thrusters and to supply extra reactant for long distance operations, since space operations cover such a vast area.

That looks awesome! That really works well as a color scheme for a car.

Given the scale, it's unlikely that interbreeding was a problem. The compendium notes that after Space War I there were still several million human survivors plus all the genetically compatible Zentradi from the remains of the Adoclass Fleet. That's a very broad base from which to clone. Further, most of the cloned people are naturally segregated from the rest of humanity because they are going off to colonize distant worlds. By time people start freely moving inbetween established colony worlds, decades have already passed, generations are born and genetic growth/drift has already begun. As I understand it, genetic diversity would be quite healthy for anyone to breed at that point. Plus, with cloning, you're aware of genetic incompatibility. If you meet a clone of your father/mother/sister/brother, you're still not going to have a relationship with that person even if she/he is technically a different person. Well, at least most people wouldn't

Not all retcon is bad. I really enjoyed some of the retcon Macross Zero introduced, particularly energy converting armor and the cyclops radar system. It addressed several of the technical plot holes in the original SDF Macross series and made the series fiction much more coherent. Of course, I'm a technology junkie, so most fans didn't really care

I just assumed that the valkyries are utilizing a variation of an ion drive since they use very little reaction mass. Conventional power sources can only operate low velocity ion drives because of the high power requirements. But with OverTechnology-style fusion and OverTechnology light weight construction, even variable fighter based engines produce enormous levels of power and are very light weight. Thus you'd have an engine that can acheive very high velocity through electromagnetic acceleration but uses hardly any reaction mass. Does this make sense or am I getting it wrong?

I agree that people must start thinking more about the films they watch. Everyone loudly complains about crap movies, but who are the first people to berate me when I decline to attend the latest batch of garbage films? People simply have to be more discriminating when it comes to film otherwise their proud-and-loud complaints end up sounding apathetic and unfounded.

Fusion is not a limitless power source. Fusion reactors, as we understand them, still require fuel (reactant). The difference is that you get far more energy far more efficiently with fusion. The energy produced by fusion per unit of fuel mass is far above any other source other known fuel-consuming energy source. But you still need fuel, however little that may be. However, on any practical scale the variable fighters probably carry enough reactant to operate for several months or possibly even a year before requiring more reactant. In that case, it's most likely that the extra fuel in FAST packs are for the vernier thrusters, not the main engines. Particularly in space active maneuvering requires constant use of verniers thrusters and eventually they run out of fuel. As far as I am aware, the official literature states the shoulder/dorsal nacelle FAST packs are propellant tanks. Given that these packs already swivel at least 90 degrees from fighter to battroid mode, I assume they can just swivel back upwards when the shoulder vernier thrusters are fired.

Macross Mecha Information/Nanashi's was a fine website for the content it had and would still be an asset to Macross fandom. We need more Macross websites, not less. But that particular site appeared more of a personal project than anything else. I can certainly sympathize with website owners who have seen their hard work pilfered by thieves. I've made it a point not to take from any other sites (though, that's not difficult, given the high requirements for M3 pictures). And who knows, perhaps we may see more of that site in the future. Personally, I want the Macross Mecha Manual to be available to fans, mostly as a reference. Something they can proudly point to when they say to their fellow anime fans "want to see a really kick ass looking mecha?" The M3 has a roughly six-month goal to catalogue the five series I stated and will meet that goal with the next update. Though I've plans to continue the site, the existing M3 material will remain online indefinitely.

Hehehe, well like I said above, I'm no authority. Either way, there's plenty of unknowns. But it sure is fun to ponder about the Macross universe. It's like sci-fi anthropology

I agree DH. It makes sense the development of light materials is very significant for the UNG in the Macross universe. The valkyries are miracles of light weight design particularly for such equipment-laden vehicles. Particularly with the revelation of energy converting armor, it seems likely the valkyries are composite structures. Of course, there's no way of knowing the properties of hypercarbons or if they are even used in valkyries in addition to OverTech space ships. I'm not sure what "space metal" really means when it's stated in the official literature for the valkyries. Could be hypercarbon, but don't really know either way.

If we're talking just metal ores, NEAs have always been looked upon as far more promising short term than any of the large bodies like the Moon or Mars (that are still largely unknowns) and far more economically feasible. Beyond that and into the long term, the collectible metals available in the asteroid belt alone is staggering. I've read through parts of Lewis' old book and availability of metals is far more than we have on our own planet. The discovery of just those few thousand objects we've cataloged so far continue to reinforce theories for mining. Then we aren't even talking beyond that or even considering other important materials in the Sol system like energy and water. I'm no authority, but from what I understand it doesn't appear there is any lack of resources even in just near Earth orbit. With a civilization like that of the UNG in Macross, the exploitation of a much greater percentage of the Solar system would yield far more materials. Exotic, magical technologies ala Trek would not even be required, but it's not like one would need to even bother with Venus or Mercury. As for the last part, of course mineral rich bodies are rare compared to the vastness of space, as is everything. The majority of the universe is space, not matter; in some crazy proportion like one atom per ten cubic meters. But in the context of our needs as humans, I understand it as our solar system containing enough to support millions of times our population.

Although I agree with your other points (including a Macross special about the UNG; geeky though it may be, it'd be great!), I must take issue with your perception of space. The resources available in the Sol System alone are near limitless for mankind's needs in the conceivable future. This includes materials common and exotic. Not only that, once challenges of space construction are overcome (as is the case in the Macross universe), building in zero g is actually much easier than assembly in gravity, particularly large scale (ships). I strongly recommend reading about the possibilities of space industries. You'd be really surprised at what is available, what is possible and the abundance compared to our single planet. Wiki actually has a very insightful section: Space Colonization

The Factory Satellite is an industrial complex already one order of magnitude greater than that of the whole Earth economy/industry. In UNG hands the Satellite is producing colonization ships far larger than the SDF-1 once per year, while it took the entire world economy of Pre-SWI Earth nearly a decade to rebuild just the SDF-1. By 2040 we're seeing dozens of fleets, including Earth's own defense fleet. Whether UNG industry is 99% supplied by the factory satellite by 2040 or (more likely) largely run by it's own industry, the UNG economy/industry is still at least one order of magnitude beyond our own.

Sounds reasonable. But who knows what new scientific understanding was brought about by OverTechnology. Besides, we're talking about a universe in which technology is so advanced that transforming fighter craft are actually practical vehicles to operate, maintain and support. Common wisdom tells us that such a vehicle would never exist because it's technologically, conceptually and logistically prohibitive from our point of view. But obviously this can't be the case in the Macross universe due to factors to which we are not privy.