Mr March

Whoa! Rare line art of the fighter mode; line art that's NOT in the SK Design Works book! Me want Damn, I was afraid of that I like that grey-blue scheme with the cream nose. It's shown in several of the pictures you and Roy have linked. Even if that isn't the scheme, it sure is nice. And not to worry, I'm definitely canning the Zolan-esque scheme sketchley I didn't know that. Apparently, the North American release has the VF-5000B Star Mirage in it (see Macross Compendium Entry) Going with the M+ colors isn't a bad idea, since it is the UNS version as you say. But then, so is the VF-X2 version. Which one to pick?

So in the last week or more I've been coloring and writing away for the VF-5000 Star Mirage profiles. After dozens of colored pictures and several pages I decide it's finally time to sit down, collect material and build the first VF-5000B standard profile. Then it hits me... There doesn't appear to be a standard color scheme for the "B". I went ahead and completed the profile anyway, but I've got a weird Zolan-like color scheme currently sitting in place for the "B" variant. I've also colored the Macross Dynamite 7 "B" versions, the Macross Plus Video Game "B" colors, the VF-X2 Video Game "B" colors...but as far as I know none of these are the standard hull colors. Or, if one of those color schemes is the standard colors, I don't know which one it would be. Now, there are two color schemes for the VF-5000G version found on page 20 and 21 of Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works, but these are Zolan variants since the line art is the "G" variant with all the Zola insignia. Current color variations: So this is what I'm currently working with, but what does the UN Spacy mass production version of the VF-5000B look like? Anyone know?

Like I said...

Yeah? Yeah? Well, my daddy can beat up your daddy, so there!

Win on both counts GGemini. I love that track. I especially like the retro 70's instrumentation in parts. Such a nice homage back to the old SDF Macross soundtrack.

Oihan I wish I knew. I'd like to have it on my iPod right now

Back home. As promised, here are the size comparison pictures: SDF Macross - Macross Plus era Variable Fighters Macross 7 Battroids Macross 7 Variable Fighters

Hahaha! Those are fantastic Nexx Stalker The one with the Optimus Prime upper body looks like he lost his "pants"

That's awesome! :) Comedy gold

Hehehe, you said "twin" In the case of LOTR, not every exclusion from book-to-film was what I'd call a loss. The first 150 pages of Fellowship has always been rough and it never gets easier after multiple reads Must...get...back...on...topic...

Very good point, my young Zinjawan Gawd, I have that trailer song stuck in my head and it won't go away. My coworkers are looking at me funny when they pass me singing jibberish

Definitely don't want to get off topic here, but I largely agree. Manga, much like literature, is a creative medium in which writers can diverge and weave large, detailed and off-point stories into the narrative without loosing the reader. This is very much one of the advatages of the written medium. IMO, the first GITS film adaptation worked well because the exposition and existential dialogue, while lengthy, was directly on point. The dialogue combined brillantly with the theme and, most importantly, maintained a consistant subtext throughout the entrie film that culminated in both an exciting action sequence and a fulfilling conclusion of the spiritual journey. The second GITS film suffered from a lack of that merging and the dialogue often became almost non-sensical and too abstract in the context of the events. Anyway, just didn't want to let a very good post go unanswered even at the risk of being a little off topic

It's nice to see some of the older space ships still in service in Macross Frontier. Like I've said before, the ship design in Macross 7 was one of it's few strengths (though I suppose some would point out to me that TECHNICALLY the Guantanamo, Bolognese and Uraga are Macross Plus designs). So far I can't see any new ship designs I recongnize as military craft in the trailer. All the new ships appear to be colony ships so far. One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet (please forgive me if you have and I've missed it) is the green/cyan/teal color of the VF-171* variable fighters. It appears to be an adoption of the VF-17s as they appeared in Macross Dynamite 7. Same kind of green/cyan/teal. It appears that the black colors were dropped as the mass production colors of the VF-17. Zinjava Yeah, this was similar to my point as well. It appears the number of Valkyries designed in the following 25 years has dropped dramatically compared to the pace of development seen in the first 38 years of UNG military history. But we haven't seen the show yet, so there could be a reason for this. Also, if that VF-171* designation is not a typo, it could mean there are far more variable fighters in between the VF-22 and the VF-25 using these new triple digit designations. Throw in some triple digits valkyries, some four digit valkyries (ala VF-5000), some differing line fighters like the VA-3 along with VF-23/VF-24 and the number of developed variable fighters could be much more reasonable. Kelsain I find most colors used in CG work are more subdued and washed out compared to drawn cell animation. It makes the vehicles appear more photorealistic. It works well with the look they are going for. Still, it is anime so there will be a lot of color in the CG and I think the trailer shows that. Particularly missiles and explosions and the VF-171 is quite colorful.

As azrael has posted, there are TWO size comparison charts in This Is Animation Series Macross 7 Animation Materials. Graham generously made some scans of the pictures for me. It shows the VF-11C Thunderbolt, VF-17D Nightmare, VF-19 Excalibur Custom and Fz-109F Elgerzorene compared to each other in Fighter mode on one page and Battroid mode on a second page. I'm at work right now, but I'll post smaller versions just to give you an idea later today. Also, there is a much more accomplished size comparison of Fighter mode side profile schematics found within the pages of This Is Animation Special Macross Plus. It features side profile schematics of the VF-1A Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning III, VF-5000 Star Mirage, VF-11B Thunderbolt, VF-17D Nightmare, YF-19 Alpha One and YF-21 Omega One all to scale with one another. I'm not sure if I've gotten around to scanning it yet, but I'll see what I can do later this afternoon.

Crap. I'll have to do a little revision to the VF-17D entry on the M3 if this is true

Hey, the guy has a link to my website on his main page

Allow me... Hehehe

MWUAHAHAHAHA! FEAR THE BOOBY VALK!

Did my website help with your growing VF-17 appreciation?

Graham No problems and thank you. I wanted to make certain sure my comments on the nature of differences in line art versus real 3D model were coming across clearly and benign. So far I'm loving every bit of the mechanical design shown in Macross Frontier, changes and all I'm not sure if I'm as familiar with the VF-17 as yourself, but I'd be interested in seeing a faithful CG conversion of it. In particular, I've always felt some rather dynamic changes occured in the legs of the VF-17 line art from Fighter to Heavy Battroid mode. The schematics from my TIAS Books seem to suggest a rather diverging proportion. But as always, who knows if the schematics are correct either (though they do match the Kawamori scale diagrams you gave me). But they do seem rather noticeable just going by eye. Plus, as your line of reasoning suggests, there is always the possibility that the VF-17 line art in particular can convert to CG much better and more faithfully than the VF-1 ever will. I'm really curious what the total catalogue of changes to the VF-17 are and the nature of the VF-171. It has to be some kind of advanced variant.

big F Thanks. One of our members, mikeszekely, really liked the idea of a VF-4 in black hull colors so I colored it for him. It turned out good, much better than the default hull colors I think the white drew carey I used a high resolution image and the multiply feature in Photoshop CS 8.0. It turned out purty On the subject, I have a special wallpaper project I want to make, but I'm lacking the skills. I was wondering if I could ask you a few questions about some of your art, found in your signature link. Basically, I want to color three pieces of line art to create a portrait-style triptych of three mecha busts (head and shoulders). My coloring is good for simple full vehicle, but detailed close ups require a bit more detail. I'm looking at your close up of the VF-1SR on your website and wondering how you acheive the shading (both sahdow and the shading around the panel lines) and the eye detail for the head unit. If I could figure that out, it would work really well for what I have in mind.

My observation was in no way a slight against anyone, least of all the CG artists working on a Macross production and I resent the implication. Personally, after years of seeing the VF-1 Battroid converted into both numerous plastic and CG models, I would think the physical limitations of a static 3D model trying to duplicate the dynamic proportions of the Valkyrie line art would be more than apparent. Nonetheless, in my opinion one interpretation of the nature of the "VF-17" changes seen in the Macross Frontier trailer is as good as another at this point.

Gotta pimp dat sheet Thanks Lonewolf

I don't think CG is so much a mass cognitive change in the anime industry as much as it is an improved method for animating that is being embraced. If a better tool exists, it will be used. Computer generated images enable artists to animate highly complex and detailed objects that would be costly and prohibitive to animate in traditional 2D drawn animation. For an industry that is always under tight budgets and limitations, CG art is a way to overcome a lot of the frame limitations of labor intensive 2D art and create ever more fluid animation with a much higher level of detail. I love CG in anime, but my only concern so far has been aesthetic. I'm hoping more japanese artists will create 3D aesthetics in CG anime the way they did with 2D anime. For me personally, it's ultimately that style and artistry in the form and compostion of the production that is most attractive about any visual medium, whether it's 2D, 3D or live action.

That was me, but I actually suggested the changes were due to BOTH conversion to a CG model AND deliberate stylistic changes, as seen on page 53. I also noted the apparent difference in the rear wing edge in my response to azrael on page 54