Mr March

I will agree that assuming all Valkyries have stealth is just speculation. However, I find it equally as unlikely that the UN Forces had a working active stealth system as early as 2008 which then sat on a shelf for 32 years before another active stealth Valkyrie was built. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Cyclops radar is described somewhat specifically (too specifically actually, as a silly single-function technology developed despite a lack of need...until it miraculously found use when the plot required), but super dimension radar was specifically mentioned in Macross 7. There is also all the instances of FTL detection in the original SDFM and we know electromagnetic transmissions function through super dimension space (fold communications). As for the Valkyries, I doubt they use a terrestrial detection system, but I will grant that Cyclops mounted systems on a Valkyrie is just speculation. I think electronic warfare in Macross maintaining the competitive shifts between stealth and detection goes without saying and is kinda irrelevant to the bigger question which would ask at what level the game starts after the introduction of OverTechnology.

Will do. Wow, the thrust ratios are going to be insane. The VF-1's 3.4 is just the tip of the iceberg. Although, the later Valkyrie statistics don't have overboost ratings Well, I suppose when you have the YF-19 with a thrust to weight ratio of 9.56, it doesn't really matter Thanks a lot for the help DH. I'll know where to come if I have some more questions.

Hmmm, good question. Perhaps another thread would be better for this.

When unifying continuity, the creators remarks are accepted unless they are specifically contradicted by canon events (such as the VF-11C internal missile bay debate). As for the ECA, the official translation specifically says "Future variable fighters will incorporate similar technology." Perhaps the ECA in VF-1 and later Valkyries is not specifically designated as SWAG-type ECA, but it's clear similar ECA is part of all variable fighters and that is not fan speculation. Once official information has been expressly stated like that, we're stuck with ECA whether it's good or bad, whether it helps continuity or creates a problem to reconcile.

I just used the wiki information. That's weird that they use the max afterburner thrust for the thrust to weight ration for the F-15C. I would have thought the dry thrust would be more appropriate. But I'm out of my element here, so I'll just go with the flow

[red vs blue mode] "Shut up, you!" Well, given that ranges are never stated for Valkyrie combat in Macross and the one long-range missile combat with Valkyries that we do see is just outside visual range before it turns into a melee furball (opening DYRL?) I'd say any specific definition of long range combat is just as arbitrary, AIM-7 or not. Also, shooting down missiles obviously doesn't negate long range combat since we see missiles used effectively at long range despite that capability (DYRL? again, SDFM hikaru vs. scout, etc). The fact that medium range missiles are still in extensive use all the way up to M+/M7 tells me it's not for lack of effectiveness as much as detection. I suppose it's possible the rarity of long range valkyrie combat could be a combination of both point defense and stealth, but to my mind I think stealth plays a larger role and makes more sense taking into account all of Macross. Much like ECA does. But that's just my opinion for what it's worth.

Wow, I was using a much more complicated formula. Now I feel stupid So the F-15 Eagle produces 155.24 kN and 12,700 kg empty weight you get a result of .01222 expressed as 1.2 I would guess. I guess I have to use emptry weight, but as you say, who knows for sure. The statistics on the wiki has the F-15 at a 1.12 thrust to weight ratio. Gawd knows how the hell they came to that So if the VF-1 produces 225.4 kN and weighs 13,250 kg you get 1.7 thrust to weight ratio or 3.4 thrust to weight ratio with afterburners. Sexah Regarding kg (kilo-gram force) for engine thrust (now it's time for me to act smart, lol): It's a measurement rarely used and not recognized as an official SI. It was used in early German rocketry and by the Russians (I think China still uses it too). Since kg was used as the unit of force for all the Macross Valkyrie statistics (until the release of Macross Zero which FINALLY started using the proper kN units) one has to convert everything in order to properly compare. Grrr! Perhaps Kawamori and Co. thought kgf sounded more futuristic or perhaps Japan is yet another country that uses this silly unit rating for thrust.

Definitely! There's quite a few new scenes with some really good new animation. It probably doesn't account to all that much additional footage. Maybe 20 minutes at most? But it's edited in a different fashion and really it works very well. I'm a bigger fan of the OVA becuase I like more as a fan (especially the opening battle sequence, which isn't in the film). But structure-wise the Macross Plus Movie Edition actually works better than the OVA series. Plus the new animation is fantastic.

Must see, must see. It is so good!

I think you need to re-read the earlier posts. These two questions you just asked answer themselves! Nonetheless, I'll try to help explain myself more clearly. If a Valkyrie can attack something beyond visual range without using missiles, then that would be considered a long range weapon in the context of my discussion. Now, when the gun pod is used to strike targets beyond visual range (max vs. battle pods, hikaru vs. theatre scout, etc), the only method a pilot has for detecting and targeting an enemy he can't actually see because it's too far away is radar or optical electronic detection. Thus the capability to "shoot down missiles" does not mean a Valkyrie is without long range attack when they can use gun pod fire long range or laser/beam cannon/particle cannon fire long range. But such long range combat only rarely occurs in mecha combat in Macross. So there must be a ANOTHER reason why long range fighting in Macross is rare. A possible answer: stealth.

Welcome to MacrossWorld Ironside. Just something to note: energy converting armor being a staple of All Valkyries is not fan speculation; that is official according to the translations of the official VF-0 statistics. Also, as others have recently revealed to me, Kawamori himself spoke of energy converting armor many years before Macross Zero (I believe his first words on the subject were dated at some time in the early 1990s).

There's plenty of long range weapons in Macross besides missiles. Even the gun pod is shown firing beyond visual range. So that doesn't make sense to me.

So, I guess there's no canopy shields for the Battroid mode?

Ah, don't mind me. I'm just venting/complaining

I hope I can post this question here, since it is aircraft related. I've been having some fun converting most of the older Valkyries thrust outputs measured in kg units into kN, which is used for the new Macross Zero statistics. It's interesting to compare the older Valkyries (in-fiction "newer") with the Macross Zero Valkyries. Anyway, this got me interested in real world comparisons as well, so I've been looking up statistics for the F-15, F-22, Su-30, F-35, A-10 and a bunch of my other favorite planes and comparing them to the Valkyries. Needless to say, it's no wonder the Valkyries are so amazing. They often have many times more thrust than traditional planes yet weigh only half as much. So then the idea hit me to compare thrust-to-weight ratios. Just one problem; I don't know how. I can do the formula's well enough, but my math must be sloppy because I can't get the numbers right. How does one properly determine the thrust-to-weight ratio of a fighter?

It looks fatastic! BTW, the designation "J"...is that official or just fan speculation? Just to note, the VF-0 has an active stealth system as well (designated as ASS/PS 110 active stealth system). The SV-51 uses one as well, but is designated the RP-51 active stealth system. Actually, I believe the intention with Macross Zero was to establish that ALL Valkyires have active stealth systems. I think it's an implied advancement derived from OverTechnology. Granted, this is a debatable point, but it makes little sense the VF-0 and SV-51 would have active stealth systems while the VF-1 would not. And yes, I've already thought of all the reasons why the VF-1 might not have an active stealth system (cost, difficulty, etc), but when all is said and done, the pervasive use of active stealth in Macross effectively explains why nearly every fight is short range.

What do I think? I think you've got a career, if you're not professional already Great work!

You're welcome. Sure, I'll send you my e-mail via PM. Unfortunately, I've never seen a schematic of the Dragon II. I don't think it exists. I do have a smaller side profile schematic of the Ghost X-9 (with Super Parts). Here it is: http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DY...t-schematic.gif

WOW! Even though the new year hasn't even arrived yet, that poster has already made any credible 2008 "Best of" list.

Here they is: http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DY...b-schematic.gif http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DY...r-schematic.gif

The reason laser hair removal was created

I love the way the trailer plays... a crashing space ship overhead <gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot...> a few talking heads <gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot...> a screaming actress <gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot...> gratuitous gore shot <gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot...> Where the hell is the character? The story? The dramatic tension? You know, all the stuff that made the first two great and actually created a franchise/fan base for these awful crap sequels? Or is it just understood that this film will lack all of that and we're not supposed to care because it's got lots of... <gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot; gratuitous gore shot...>

Someone posted a link to a video for the first five minutes of this turkey on the IMDB hit list. Here's the link: http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/a/Aliens-Vs-Pre...ex-3687454.html cringe

The top view schematic of the VF-11 exists! I have it. It appears in the book This Is Animation Special Macross Plus. After I get home from work today I can post a copy for you.

Naturally, I'll end up going to see this. I liked Raiders and Last Crusade (yes, even as an adult) and since it's a Spielberg film, at least it will be well made on a technical and aesthetic level. Even the worst of his films (example, War of the Worlds) are much more tolerable to watch than average box office fodder just because they are so well put together and look great. As for this film itself, Harrison is too old, the franchise freshness is long gone, yadda, yadda, yadda. But I guess we all have our guilty pleasures.