HG and Robotech Debates

[Ginrai]

That is not what OVA means. OVA means Original Video Animation.

[Keith]

That is not what OVA means. OVA means Original Video Animation.

And again, you apparently have no idea of what an OVA actually "is." Don't come here and tell me what an OVA is, I've been watching OVA's since before you were born. OVA's are a good friend of mine, and I can tell you that this Robotech crap thing is most definately no "OVA."

[Dynaman]

And again, you apparently have no idea of what an OVA actually "is." Don't come here and tell me what an OVA is, I've been watching OVA's since before you were born. OVA's are a good friend of mine, and I can tell you that this Robotech crap thing is most definately no "OVA."

I never knew that watching an OVA gives one the ability to declare what is or is not an OVA. I've been watching them since the mid eighties - must make me an expert as well, so I declare the Robotech stuff to be OVAs.

[VF5SS]

do we count Marvel and DC direct to video stuff as being OVAs now

[Aladdin Sane]

do we count Marvel and DC direct to video stuff as being OVAs now

Technically, yeah. If you're taking the term at face value, an OVA is just animation that originates on a home video format. Of course, from there it becomes a matter of "does the term apply only to Japanese animation?" which I would say is fair, given that it's generally used exclusively in that context. Given that, I wouldn't really call the Marvel and DC stuff, or Robotech for that matter, an OVA. Of course, it's ultimately just a difference in terminology and an OVA isn't really any different to a direct-to-video animation from Disney, or Warner Brothers, or any other western studio.

Though I'm the kind of person that thinks it's silly to say "this stuff here, from Japan, is called anime. But all that stuff from America, England, and pretty much every other country? That's cartoons. We're lumping all of that together". It's all animation to me, and segregating one country from the rest of the world doesn't make a great deal of sense as far as I'm concerned.

[Renato]

Actually, OVA has a lot to do with budget, bigger than TV, not quite as big as movie, and viola, you have an OVA. In general though, considering this isn't a Japanese production or release, it's automatically disqualified as an OVA. Maybe it should instead be called an STD (Straight to Disc), lol.

"Viola"? . Sorry, Keith, but even if that argument made any sense whatsoever, randomly inserting names of string instruments in your writings makes you lose even more credibility real fast.

Meanwhile, guess what? These days I've been using my commuting time constructively/destructively by reading Robotech Art 3. I know many of you have read it, but I'm sure many have not, so I just want to very briefly give my impressions.

A lot of it is actually really interesting, though I question how much is true. Most of the stuff about Robotech the Movie is dubious since Megazone 23 is never mentioned, moreover, they credit some American dude with the storyboarding and everything.

The bit that kind of irritated me was when they describe the method of producing the episodes -- they had actually hired Hiroshi Iwata and Hiroshi Onogi, among others, and apparently Uncle Carl felt that the Japanese were trying to focus on the new characters more and brush Rick and Lisa et al off to the side, just so they could later turn around and broadcast an edited version of the show to the Japanese market. Wow. Pots and kettles come to mind.

[Dynaman]

do we count Marvel and DC direct to video stuff as being OVAs now

yes - it's not what Marvel and DC call it, but that is what things released directly for home use is.

Shadow Chronicles is actually an interesting case though - they tried to get it to theaters first (and in some small way did) but it was not a wide release. So one COULD argue that Shadow Chronicles is a theatrical movie which they then released on DVD (I would not do that personally). Which shows the whole distinction between OVA, Theatrical, and TV is nebulous at best. (Didn't just happen to Shadow Chronicles, the original Battlestar Galactica was first released as a movie in Canada for instance)

[terry the lone wolf]

A lot of it is actually really interesting, though I question how much is true. Most of the stuff about Robotech the Movie is dubious since Megazone 23 is never mentioned, moreover, they credit some American dude with the storyboarding and everything.

They might have been referring to the Paul Power storyboard that gave Robotech the Movie the opening using the planets and the new MZ23 animation used for the ending.

Edited August 6, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[VF5SS]

yes - it's not what Marvel and DC call it, but that is what things released directly for home use is.

No, they're not OVAs. OVAs are not just the material themselves but also the market for them. While we do have direct-to-video animation, it is not the same in terms of budget or execution. We simply do not have an OVA market in America.

Attempting to call something an OVA is clearly a dishonest way of trying to associate it with the image of lavishly animated features such as Bubblgegum Crisis and Macross Plus.

Shadow Chronicles is more like another failed pilot for a TV series that will never exist.

[Keith]

Robotech: Not original = Disqualified

Robotech: Video - Dubious Qualification

Robotech: Animation? = Sometimes characters lumbered across the screen in Shadow Chronicles, and more of the same is expected in the new thing whatever it is, but I'm still gonna disqualify it.

But buttom line, wanting it to be an OVA so you can try and legitimize its anime status isn't going to make it so. Also, I'll say viola if I want, and you can't stop me!

[Dynaman]

But buttom line, wanting it to be an OVA so you can try and legitimize its anime status isn't going to make it so. Also, I'll say viola if I want, and you can't stop me!

Bottom line, it is an OVA. If perceived quality had anything to do with it then nothing would qualify. Also - your loathing of the show in question does not detract from it being an OVA, indeed - since it is not a theatrical movie and was never on TV (as far as I can tell), the only definition that fits is OVA, or a synonymous english term.

Sources: (note that many/all of these state that OAVs generaly have higher budgets or quality it is not a rule)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_video_animation

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/OVA

And since the horse is dead, buried, dug up, creamated, ashes spread out to sea, sucked up with the oil in Gulf, and reburied in a landfill, my part in this is done...

[Keith]

Bottom line, it is an OVA. If perceived quality had anything to do with it then nothing would qualify. Also - your loathing of the show in question does not detract from it being an OVA, indeed - since it is not a theatrical movie and was never on TV (as far as I can tell), the only definition that fits is OVA, or a synonymous english term.

Sources: (note that many/all of these state that OAVs generaly have higher budgets or quality it is not a rule)

http://www.animenews...xicon.php?id=35

http://en.wikipedia....video_animation

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/OVA

And since the horse is dead, buried, dug up, creamated, ashes spread out to sea, sucked up with the oil in Gulf, and reburied in a landfill, my part in this is done...

Delusional robotech fandom is delusional, and you sir, are an OVA.

[Ginrai]

The bit that kind of irritated me was when they describe the method of producing the episodes -- they had actually hired Hiroshi Iwata and Hiroshi Onogi, among others, and apparently Uncle Carl felt that the Japanese were trying to focus on the new characters more and brush Rick and Lisa et al off to the side, just so they could later turn around and broadcast an edited version of the show to the Japanese market. Wow. Pots and kettles come to mind.

Funny, that's almost exactly what Tatsunoko did. Have you seen Zillion? Most of the mecha are slightly redesigned Sentinels mecha.

[Dynaman]

Delusional robotech fandom is delusional, and you sir, are an OVA.

Perhaps, but I grew out of it... (*sorry, I couldn't help myself*)

[Einherjar]

With all the animation work being done in Asia, and the lack of information about this secret project, does it really matter what it should be called anymore? Terms like OVA are just to sucker in people in the anime crowd as they did with Shadow Chronicles. To others, it's just a straight to DVD movie or whatever, especially since there are no plans to put this on TV. They're all interchangeable to fit their promotional needs.

For all we know, it could really be animation done a personal computer but they'll call it whatever because of all the loose associations Robotech has with different genres of entertainment.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Einherjar

[azrael]

I'm sorry, why are we arguing about what an OVA/OAV is? It's a direct-to-home-video release. That's all it is for crying out loud. Japanese do it one way, Yanks do it another. Either way it's a "direct-to-home video release".

Good grief. It's like someone saying "pOOtato" vs. "pAtato".

[VF5SS]

Good grief. It's like someone saying "pOOtato" vs. "pAtato".

i call it irish candy

[Jasonc]

The bit that kind of irritated me was when they describe the method of producing the episodes -- they had actually hired Hiroshi Iwata and Hiroshi Onogi, among others, and apparently Uncle Carl felt that the Japanese were trying to focus on the new characters more and brush Rick and Lisa et al off to the side, just so they could later turn around and broadcast an edited version of the show to the Japanese market. Wow. Pots and kettles come to mind.

You were right to question the validity of that book, and I find that hard to believe, as they were already going with the Flashback 2012 concept. Also, if they were able to use the original designs of the characters, why would they use half assed versions of them, and then use the original designs later? I think that's someone's way of trying to make the Sentinels work believably very important in Japan, when in reality, it was a failed job that HG wasn't able to finish.

[Dynaman]

You were right to question the validity of that book, and I find that hard to believe, as they were already going with the Flashback 2012 concept. Also, if they were able to use the original designs of the characters, why would they use half assed versions of them, and then use the original designs later? I think that's someone's way of trying to make the Sentinels work believably very important in Japan, when in reality, it was a failed job that HG wasn't able to finish.

They were not planning on using the footage as a Macross continuation, they were planning on a different show.

[Keith]

I'm sorry, why are we arguing about what an OVA/OAV is? It's a direct-to-home-video release. That's all it is for crying out loud. Japanese do it one way, Yanks do it another. Either way it's a "direct-to-home video release".

Good grief. It's like someone saying "pOOtato" vs. "pAtato".

I don't know about anyone else, but I was arguing about it because an OVA isn't just a simple straight to video release, an OVA is a high budgeted, high production value series or movie release. It's basically the difference between Gunbuster & anything that Asylum releases.

For the HG gang to arbitrarily call something they're producing an OVA, is an insult to the term.

[taksraven]

I'm sorry, why are we arguing about what an OVA/OAV is? It's a direct-to-home-video release. That's all it is for crying out loud. Japanese do it one way, Yanks do it another. Either way it's a "direct-to-home video release".

Good grief. It's like someone saying "pOOtato" vs. "pAtato".

This vid is this thread.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

[Keith]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2WxPZ1wdFNI

Nah, I think it's more this video. Edited August 7, 2010 by Keith

[taksraven]

Nah, I think it's more this video.

Um, oooohhh kay.

Taksraven

[Renato]

Funny, that's almost exactly what Tatsunoko did. Have you seen Zillion? Most of the mecha are slightly redesigned Sentinels mecha.

Yeah, but at least it's not just a re-edit of the actual animation, which is what Macek was referring to.

EDIT -- Attached the page in question for discussion's sake.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Renato

[Renato]

I don't know about anyone else, but I was arguing about it because an OVA isn't just a simple straight to video release, an OVA is a high budgeted, high production value series or movie release. It's basically the difference between Gunbuster & anything that Asylum releases.

Most hentai is released in OVA format and their quality is comparable to Asylum flicks. Your argument sounds like "All cars are Ferraris".

And by the way, "voila" and "viola" are two different things.

Um, oooohhh kay.

Taksraven

Yeah, it's a joke because the lyrics are "This isn't anime! This isn't anime!" OK, very funny, haha.

[Renato]

They might have been referring to the Paul Power storyboard that gave Robotech the Movie the opening using the planets and the new MZ23 animation used for the ending.

Yes, but that's not exactly how it's described. Macek chose his words carefully to make it sound like he wrote the entire movie and the Japanese staff re-worked Paul Power's storyboards. Take a look for yourself:

[Funkenstein]

Perhaps, but I grew out of it... (*sorry, I couldn't help myself*)

I dont think anyone got the joke.

[Jasonc]

Yeah, but at least it's not just a re-edit of the actual animation, which is what Macek was referring to.

EDIT -- Attached the page in question for discussion's sake.

The words before the issue "In my opinion"... seems like a big assumption that the material was so good, that Tatsunoko was just gonna take what they had, and use it for something else. I really have to question that, especially in the text as this was written in.

[Dynaman]

I dont think anyone got the joke.

Most likely better that way...

[Keith]

Most hentai is released in OVA format and their quality is comparable to Asylum flicks. Your argument sounds like "All cars are Ferraris".

And by the way, "voila" and "viola" are two different things.

Just as a straight to video robotech production & an OVA are two completely different things. Now the circle is complete.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Keith

[HappyPenguins]

Just as a straight to video robotech production & an OVA are two completely different things. Now the circle is complete.

end of the circle lol

[Keith]

end of the circle lol

lol, even more appropriate than intended.

[terry the lone wolf]

Yes, but that's not exactly how it's described. Macek chose his words carefully to make it sound like he wrote the entire movie and the Japanese staff re-worked Paul Power's storyboards. Take a look for yourself:

I think I see the confusion; he's speaking very ambigously but he's referring to the new ending but doesn't mention that RT the Movie is based off of the original Megazone 23. He admits that the Idol Co. did the original animation but he doesn't say how he changed the original script or the reason for the Paul Power storyboard (that they were changing the end to appease Canon Films). Now I'm guessing here, Carl maybe didn't want to admit (at the time) that RT the Movie was an edited MZ23 because he wanted the film to stand on it's own merits like how he did in other interviews he did for RT. Like making it seem that the Japanese studios were creating new animation for RT and not admitting they were actually purchasing them. The movie was still being distributed in Europe & South America; it was even broadcasted on tv in South Africa. So even though the film was dead in America (except for a few film festivals) but abroad was still making money.

Edited August 9, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Keith]

I think I see the confusion; he's speaking very ambigously but he's referring to the new ending but doesn't mention that RT the Movie is based off of the original Megazone 23. He admits that the Idol Co. did the original animation but he doesn't say how he changed the original script or the reason for the Paul Power storyboard (that they were changing the end to appease Canon Films). Now I'm guessing here, Carl maybe didn't want to admit (at the time) that RT the Movie was an edited MZ23 because he wanted the film to stand on it's own merits like how he did in other interviews he did for RT. Like making it seem that the Japanese studios were creating new animation for RT and not admitting they were actually purchasing them. The movie was still being distributed in Europe & South America; it was even broadcasted on tv in South Africa. So even though the film was dead in America (except for a few film festivals) but abroad was still making money.

More likely, it was just a bad habbit of his to take credit for things he didn't make. I seem to recall his seperate commentary track on Heavy Metal, where he basically takes credit for making that too.

[Einherjar]

So why would there be interest in what the editor of a piece of work had to say about another person's work that he had exclusive access to? He's not an artist who drew anything that fascinated audiences all over the world, or the guy for created the story or concepts that made it into the show. I see a loose reinterpretation of other people's stuff, and yet he gets more credit than the people who did the real work.

Oh, pretty pictures and stories full of fluff to detract from what's really going on. Forget it, I'm sold.