Creating Waterslide Decals

[MacrossMan]

I've been researching customizing Waterslide decals and wondering if anyone here has any experience with them. Specifically the type of printer needed, best supplier for paper, and any special software needed and where to get artwork for creating Macross decals in 1/48 scale and possibly others. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

OO

[cowie165]

I have zero first-hand experience.

I've read ALPS printers are the most sought after. They are no longer produced. They print white.

Adobe Illustrator seems to be the program-of-choice for creating custom decals. Try PMing PetarB as he created an amazing set of custom decals for his 1/72 VF-4.

HTH.

[nemesis_trooper]

I've been researching customizing Waterslide decals and wondering if anyone here has any experience with them. Specifically the type of printer needed, best supplier for paper, and any special software needed and where to get artwork for creating Macross decals in 1/48 scale and possibly others. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

OO

MacrossMan, no firsthand experience here either but I did abit of research on ALPS printers and it seems the only place you can find a new one with warranty is here:

http://www.alps-supplies.com/index.php?cPath=21

They are based in NZ though so shipping will not be cheap. The printer is also sold domestically within Japan but I seem to recall reading somewhere (an ALPS yahoo groups forum i think) that they do not ship internationally.

Anasazi definitely has even more practical advice so do drop him a PM!

Edited August 3, 2008 by nemesis_trooper

[PetarB]

To produce the artwork for good quality decals you need to use a vector based illustration program like Adobe Illustrator. Corel Draw might be okay too, but I haven't used it for about a decade. As long as you're not printing white (which limits what you can do, a lot!) you can achieve excellent results with most modern colour inkjet printers and Adobe Illustrator. The key is to set up the printer driver correctly, and the kind of paper you use. Most decal papers are quite expensive, and will vary to where you live. Whatever decal paper you find, make sure it's as glossy as possible, naturally, as you will be able to print at a higher resolution.

If you need a 'white' background for your artwork, consider using white decal paper, which you can buy at hobby stores. You will have to cut it to the shape you want, and then your custom decal goes over the top, after it's dry.

As for ALPS, its beyond the budget of most hobbyists. I considered buying one, but would not buy it 'blind' as I'd want to do some tests with it before committing to that kind of a purchase. Some ALPS printed decals that I have received have been less than satisfactory, but its hard to tell whether it's because of the printers natural resolution, or poor artwork.

Finally, if you want to purchase something out of Japan but they only ship internationally, consider contacting Rob from www.samurai-monkey.com. He offers a local Japanese buying service.

Edited August 3, 2008 by PetarB

[fcollingwood]

HI all

Interesting thread. I picked up on it via the referrer stats collected by Alps Supplies (I own Alps Supplies), and I'd like to support some of what has been written, and correct some points too.

1. Yes, the MD-5500 is still available, and is still manufactured.

2. The only source outside Japan for the MD-5500 is Alps Supplies, and Alps Supplies is the only source of the English driver for these printers. Printers sourced from Japan will only have Japanese drivers, and Alps Supplies do not provide English drivers for printers that have not been purchased from us.

3. While decent quality decals (Alps & Inkejet) can be produced from bitmap artwork, it is a major undertaking to do so. Any resizing will result in "jaggies". Vector artwork (CorelDraw, Illustrator, etc.) is quicker to produce, and easier to use.

4. Very good quality decals can be produced on the Alps, provided the designer knows the limitations and can work within them. For example, while the screen for dithered colours is not very good (Preferable to print purely with spot colours), there are methods that can be used to force the printer to print with a finer screen and a higher resolution.

5. Inkjets can't print white. It's fine using white decal paper, but what when you want white lettering 0.5mm high? Try cutting that out! Also, printing colours using a white undercoat gives an opaque decal, something an inkjet just can not do.

[PetarB]

Wow, an interesting visitor! Thanks fcollingwood for dropping by. Just a couple of questions if you have time.

1) What are the ink options on ALPS? I know it can do white, but what about metallics, or any other inks I haven't mentioned.

2) What resolution does the ALPS output at?

3) What are the paper requirements?

Thanks for your time.

Regards, Petar

[fcollingwood]

No problems, happy to answer any questions

1) What are the ink options on ALPS? I know it can do white, but what about metallics, or any other inks I haven't mentioned.

As well as the standard CMYK and white, they can do metallic and foil gold and silver. There are also red, green and blue spot colours (We don't supply them, but there are people in the US who stock them), but the RGB cartridges are not recognised by the printer, and what is commonly termed the "label swapping trick" needs to be done in order to use them

2) What resolution does the ALPS output at?

600x600, but it is able to do the equivalent of 1200x600 in VPhoto mode, which also gives it the 195lpi screen. I've printed legible text 0.5mm high in 600x600.

3) What are the paper requirements?

It can handle decal paper quite happily, double length A4 size (Or letter)

regards

Frank

[Valk009]

Printer-wise, as long as you are not printing white or anything in metallic, go for a good colour laser printer. An excellent ink jet will also do the job, just rememeber to clear coat it though after printing as you do not want the colour to fade when soaking the decals in water!

In regards to the decal papers, well, over here there are limited choices and I usually stick with the ones from WAVE. there are some chinese or taiwanese ones but the paper seems to be thicker, not to mention the backing paper is white, making white decals hard to see!

If you need to print white and those fancy metallic colours, then your choice is pretty limited to Alps printer.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Valk009

[Kylwell]

HI all

Interesting thread. I picked up on it via the referrer stats collected by Alps Supplies (I own Alps Supplies), and I'd like to support some of what has been written, and correct some points too.

1. Yes, the MD-5500 is still available, and is still manufactured.

2. The only source outside Japan for the MD-5500 is Alps Supplies, and Alps Supplies is the only source of the English driver for these printers. Printers sourced from Japan will only have Japanese drivers, and Alps Supplies do not provide English drivers for printers that have not been purchased from us.

3. While decent quality decals (Alps & Inkejet) can be produced from bitmap artwork, it is a major undertaking to do so. Any resizing will result in "jaggies". Vector artwork (CorelDraw, Illustrator, etc.) is quicker to produce, and easier to use.

4. Very good quality decals can be produced on the Alps, provided the designer knows the limitations and can work within them. For example, while the screen for dithered colours is not very good (Preferable to print purely with spot colours), there are methods that can be used to force the printer to print with a finer screen and a higher resolution.

5. Inkjets can't print white. It's fine using white decal paper, but what when you want white lettering 0.5mm high? Try cutting that out! Also, printing colours using a white undercoat gives an opaque decal, something an inkjet just can not do.

Dang, cool. I'd read that the line had been discontinued and they were offering no support. Glad to hear otherwise. So what's shipping on one of these to the US and can you name any good US suppliers for the foil & inks?

[fcollingwood]

Dang, cool. I'd read that the line had been discontinued and they were offering no support. Glad to hear otherwise. So what's shipping on one of these to the US and can you name any good US suppliers for the foil & inks?

Hi

Shipping to the US is NZ$177.47 via EMS (Tracked and insured)

For inks and excellent quality decal paper, try Tom Prestia of Tango Papa Decals

[promethuem5]

I made some decals for a project last month by reworking a decal sheet scan in Photoshop, and printed them on my Epson with Testors decal paper to good result, but you do need something like an Alps to print white/opaque decals.

[AcroRay]

Supplier I've kept on file, although I haven't done any waterslide decals myself:

http://www.decalpaper.com/default.asp

...They've also got some instructions and guides for you as well.

[Kylwell]

Hi

Shipping to the US is NZ$177.47 via EMS (Tracked and insured)

For inks and excellent quality decal paper, try Tom Prestia of Tango Papa Decals

Thank, I'll pass this info upline and I've done biz w/Tango Papa before. Good people.

[MacrossMan]

I made some decals for a project last month by reworking a decal sheet scan in Photoshop, and printed them on my Epson with Testors decal paper to good result, but you do need something like an Alps to print white/opaque decals.

What about using what has already been created by Devin? Is there a way to print his decals in the correct scale using an inkjet printer on decal paper without losing any quality?

[theplasticwerks]

Is it just the decal paper that makes the decal? Because it just occurred to me that I might be able to simply silkscreen white ink onto a decal sheet and be good to go.

This also looks a promising alternative:

http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/index.html

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4651483/.../tm.htm#4657420

Edited August 8, 2008 by theplasticwerks

[Grayson72]

I wonder of Devin (Anasazi) is reading this thread? He was definately under the impression that Alps Printers where no more. Part of the reason he stopped producing his decals was to preserve the remaining supplies and parts that he had.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Grayson72

[Anasazi37]

ALPS only discontinued operations in the US, which included their repair/replacement program and ink supplies. I researched the MD-5500 option pretty thoroughly before deciding to close up shop. At the time I concluded that it was too expensive, with respect to both time and money--and a bit too risky, since I'd have to deal directly with the manufacturer in Japan (my Japanese is terrible). I was most worried about repair/replacement. ALPS printers break down at the drop of a hat. When that happened in the past, I simply shipped my printer out to ALPS in California and they sent you a refurbished one for $350--generally within a week. I've actually lost track of how many times that happened while printing Macross decals over the years, which is a bit scary. In fact, at one point I had two printers in continuous rotation between my house and the repair facility so that I could minimize down time. I subsidized a lot of the constant repair costs so that I could keep the decals affordable for everyone. The MD-5500 is twice the price, though, plus you'd presumably have to ship the printer back to New Zealand (or Japan) and back any time there is a problem with it. You also burn through a lot of ink when printing decals. When I did the math on all of this, it didn't add up for me. It looks like the ink at alps-supplies.com is about the same price as what I'm used to paying, though, so that's a good thing.

As for attempting to scale up the sample pictures of the decal sets I post online for printing, I wouldn't recommend it. Those are reduced resolution, low quality versions designed to show some detail, but not enough so that you can print them yourself (I put a lot of work into those sets). Tango Papa decals makes the best ALPS-friendly paper, hands down. I've pretty much tried them all and suffered accordingly before finding Tango Papa. Vector-based artwork is definitely the way to go if you want clean lines, solid fill, and easily scalable graphics--but it does require specialized software like Illustrator, some drafting skills, and a lot of time (if you want to do it right).

I can probably answer some additional questions, but I don't have a lot of time and don't regularly check the MW forums these days.

I wonder of Devin (Anasazi) is reading this thread? He was definately under the impression that Alps Printers where no more. Part of the reason he stopped producing his decals was to preserve the remaining supplies and parts that he had.

[MacrossMan]

ALPS only discontinued operations in the US, which included their repair/replacement program and ink supplies. I researched the MD-5500 option pretty thoroughly before deciding to close up shop. At the time I concluded that it was too expensive, with respect to both time and money--and a bit too risky, since I'd have to deal directly with the manufacturer in Japan (my Japanese is terrible). I was most worried about repair/replacement. ALPS printers break down at the drop of a hat. When that happened in the past, I simply shipped my printer out to ALPS in California and they sent you a refurbished one for $350--generally within a week. I've actually lost track of how many times that happened while printing Macross decals over the years, which is a bit scary. In fact, at one point I had two printers in continuous rotation between my house and the repair facility so that I could minimize down time. I subsidized a lot of the constant repair costs so that I could keep the decals affordable for everyone. The MD-5500 is twice the price, though, plus you'd presumably have to ship the printer back to New Zealand (or Japan) and back any time there is a problem with it. You also burn through a lot of ink when printing decals. When I did the math on all of this, it didn't add up for me. It looks like the ink at alps-supplies.com is about the same price as what I'm used to paying, though, so that's a good thing.

As for attempting to scale up the sample pictures of the decal sets I post online for printing, I wouldn't recommend it. Those are reduced resolution, low quality versions designed to show some detail, but not enough so that you can print them yourself (I put a lot of work into those sets). Tango Papa decals makes the best ALPS-friendly paper, hands down. I've pretty much tried them all and suffered accordingly before finding Tango Papa. Vector-based artwork is definitely the way to go if you want clean lines, solid fill, and easily scalable graphics--but it does require specialized software like Illustrator, some drafting skills, and a lot of time (if you want to do it right).

I can probably answer some additional questions, but I don't have a lot of time and don't regularly check the MW forums these days.

Could you email the files in your saved format to print the decals?

[Fly4victory]

If anyone needs source scans for decal production, I used the Hasegawa Decals as a basis.

Some of the scans are available in the model section.

If you cannot use them just let me know and I will try to post better.

[MacrossMan]

If anyone needs source scans for decal production, I used the Hasegawa Decals as a basis.

Some of the scans are available in the model section.

If you cannot use them just let me know and I will try to post better.

Are these in 1/48 scale?

[Anasazi37]

No, unfortunately. The decal sheet master files represent a substantial investment on my part (time and money), so I can't just give them away. It's the equivalent of asking Captain America (John Moscato) to give you all of his molds for the various resin Macross kits he's designed, for free, so that you can make your own kits.

The Hasegawa decals (I have the scans, too) are 1/72 scale and can't simply be resized for use with the Yamato 1/48 valks (or 1/60's, for that matter). Many of the designs require modification so that they will fit properly. I used them as a base for many of my sets, but ended up having to re-render almost every single one so that everything would look right.

Could you email the files in your saved format to print the decals?

[fcollingwood]

No, unfortunately. The decal sheet master files represent a substantial investment on my part (time and money), so I can't just give them away. It's the equivalent of asking Captain America (John Moscato) to give you all of his molds for the various resin Macross kits he's designed, for free, so that you can make your own kits.

The Hasegawa decals (I have the scans, too) are 1/72 scale and can't simply be resized for use with the Yamato 1/48 valks (or 1/60's, for that matter). Many of the designs require modification so that they will fit properly. I used them as a base for many of my sets, but ended up having to re-render almost every single one so that everything would look right.

Indeed - I have had the same in the past, I think what quite a few new Alps users don't realise is that you can't just scan stuff, resize, and print.

While I have used scans in the past, they have only served as templates in order to draw vector artwork. Vector artwork takes a fair amount of time to produce, but if you want decals that are usable, it is the only way to go. Scans should only ever be used as a template.

Giving away artwork is a no-no!

[Fly4victory]

Are these in 1/48 scale?

As you can see from above the scans would be in 1/72 and will need cleaning up using a vector program. I could even scan the Yamato 1/48 decals but they also would need to be cleaned up.

They are not a usable product, at least not on par with what was produced in the past, but they are better than starting from scratch.

[big F]

I did the masking tape trick a while back when I started making a decal sheet. Just cover the area in a singular piece of tape. Draw the out line of the design on and then peel the tape off you can then scan in to the computer and use your Vector graphic program to finish it. you can Print it out on masking tape adhered to a really thin bit of plasticard in your bog standard inkjet wait for it to dry and peel off and try for size. Repeatedly resizing and printing will get you scale on track.

Then crack out the big guns and finish your decal sheet off and print on proper decal paper.

Edited August 17, 2008 by big F

[misterryno]

Does anyone know of water slide decals for a 1/60 scale VF-1 w/Super/Strike Parts? I would love to obtain some for my v.2 Roy instead of using the sticker sheet provided.