Super Dimension Southern Calvary Cross

[lord_breetai]

Mind you, I actually have come across the "Robotech came first" lobby - one or two folk have said in my presence "When the Japanese dubbed Robotech into Japanese they just did the Macross Saga and pretended it was a show by itself". Which fills me full of irritation and choler.

Karl

Well thats when you pull out the Japanese dubs of the other shows... and that's when you compare copyright dates.

[Vermillion21]

... the Auroran (AGACS in Robotech) ...

That was the space helicopter mecha, right?? I remember it looking pretty cool ...

[Gubaba]

Sorry, VFTF1...gentlemen never kiss and tell.

But yeah...those hovertanks are pretty cool...someone ought to start a thread about how we need hovertank toys.

Actually...if some Japanese toy company were ever possessed to rerelease the Southern Cross kits, I'd probably pick a couple up. I think the armor still looks nice.

And did anyone else have the Lana Isavia kit? That one was...surprising, to say the least.

[Gubaba]

That was the space helicopter mecha, right?? I remember it looking pretty cool ...

It does indeed look cool...but...

SPACE HELICOPTERS??? I never understood the logic behind behind THAT one...

[rei]

Yeah space helicopters were a WTF for me too. Actually I don't recall the blades spinning at all, but I like its looks especially in battroid mode. Battroid mode looks decent to me.

There was some other mecha that seemed to be a mini-shuttle or something (I don't think it's the Logan) with a very simple design.

[VFTF1]

Hm - judging by the look of those Space Helicopters - they'd be better of flying in space than in an earth atmosphere. There's no tail rotar - so the thing would, I gather, spin uncontrolably on the axis of its own main rotar?

While on this subject- do recall the Fan Jet from Macross - although admitably it ended up in space by accident - but it did always surprise me that the thing had internal atmospheric and oxygen (although then again - correct me if I'm wrong but don't commercial airplanes have the same?) ...

Anyways - someone with knowledge please speak - I'm curious

VFTF1

[jenius]

There are modern day helicopters without tail rotors, they use their exhaust to stabilize IIRC.

The AGACS was never a helicopter in space. In fact, it was never a helicopter in the entire series. It has three modes: Fighter, Helicopter, and Battroid. It is only seen in Fighter and Battroid modes. Unfortunately, it looks like a helicopter without a rotor in fighter mode so it still kinda looks like helicopters fighting in space. In Robotech the Auroran makes almost no sense. It appears in an episode where it shouldn't exist yet, is revealed in a later episode as a new fighter, and if Earth had VF-1 valkyries at any point all of the mecha in Southern Cross is a pathetic step in the wrong direction.

Edited May 13, 2008 by jenius

[Awacs]

Well thats when you pull out the Japanese dubs of the other shows... and that's when you compare copyright dates.

Yep, pretty much. I will hang my head in shame and admit I don't have that data on tap in my head, but I always know where to send people looking for it.

There are modern day helicopters without tail rotors, they use their exhaust to stabilize IIRC.

Yep, the NO-TAR concept (No TAil Rotor), some of them look quite funky. I have a sort of half-love for the Auroran - based purely on my love of the underdog - it's a silly looking design, and not particularly effective even in the context of it's home show. And in Robotech, as you say Jenius it just looks like a technological leap down a blind alley. Somehow that endears it to me a little.

Karl

[Ginrai]

I know I am anal, but you please fix the subject line? This is driving me nuts.

[VF5SS]

I much prefer the space helicopter over the tub of lard.

[lord_breetai]

There are modern day helicopters without tail rotors, they use their exhaust to stabilize IIRC.

The AGACS was never a helicopter in space. In fact, it was never a helicopter in the entire series. It has three modes: Fighter, Helicopter, and Battroid. It is only seen in Fighter and Battroid modes. Unfortunately, it looks like a helicopter without a rotor in fighter mode so it still kinda looks like helicopters fighting in space. In Robotech the Auroran makes almost no sense. It appears in an episode where it shouldn't exist yet, is revealed in a later episode as a new fighter, and if Earth had VF-1 valkyries at any point all of the mecha in Southern Cross is a pathetic step in the wrong direction.

The only episode it appears where it shouldn't is in "Dana's Story" and the reason for that is it is an episode patched together out of unrelated Macross and Southern Cross clips to make a bridging episode that establishes Dana is Max and Miriya's daughter. And in that episode they never once called it an AGAC they just called it a Veritech they also mentioned guardian mode in the dialog when the AGACs dosn't have one... so I think it was kinda clear from the dialouge that it was supposed to be "the AGAC filling the roll of some other kind of Veritech"

And in ordering the Robotech Series... you could not put Macross anywhere at the start, just do to the geography of the "earth" in the other two shows and the level of civilian technology in Southern Cross... they could not be co current and Macross HAD to come first... so not much that can be done about the mecha, looking less kick ass.

[jenius]

The only episode it appears where it shouldn't is in "Dana's Story" and the reason for that is it is an episode patched together out of unrelated Macross and Southern Cross clips to make a bridging episode that establishes Dana is Max and Miriya's daughter. And in that episode they never once called it an AGAC they just called it a Veritech they also mentioned guardian mode in the dialog when the AGACs dosn't have one... so I think it was kinda clear from the dialouge that it was supposed to be "the AGAC filling the roll of some other kind of Veritech"

I don't follow your point. Nothing you said contradicts what I wrote but the way it reads sounds almost like you disagree with me about something.

And in ordering the Robotech Series... you could not put Macross anywhere at the start, just do to the geography of the "earth" in the other two shows and the level of civilian technology in Southern Cross... they could not be co current and Macross HAD to come first... so not much that can be done about the mecha, looking less kick ass.

For what it is, I think they did a decent job. Macross starts in a relatively current date, the Earth gets bombarded and sucks but does look more futuristic in The Masters, then another huge space battle later we get New Gen where much of the Earth is in ruins and cities are abandoned. There are lots of issues with it, most the New Gen cities should probably be rubble, but otherwise I think it's pretty much just the mechs of Southern Cross that feel totally out of place. Macross mechs look like progressions from existing technology and New Gen stuff has that boxy = futuristic vibe from the 80s but the Southern Cross stuff is just... not fun. It ends up looking like tanks and helicopters in space wedged between VF-1s with Fast Packs and Alpha/Beta combos. Somebody eventually throws how the vehicles are shown to perform in the show itself but i don't care what anybody says, you can't sell floating tanks and helicopters with those bruisers on your bookends.

[lord_breetai]

I don't follow your point. Nothing you said contradicts what I wrote but the way it reads sounds almost like you disagree with me about something.

I was merely pointing out that there's a reason for it's early appearance and that was the lack of animation needed to create their rather disjointed space battle arc needed to make the change of pace the first three episodes of Robotech Masters has work (for example Dana not being in the brig at the start, everyone already being on alert in the second episode blah blah blah). And again that the dialog makes it pretty clear that the AGACs in that episode aren't actually AGACs. If I recall correctly they were drawn as different fighters when Comico did the Dana's Story Special comic.

[Shun]

just want to point out that in the original Southern Cross anime, they are called Logan and Auroran.

and the Auroran did appear in all its 3 modes.

[jenius]

just want to point out that in the original Southern Cross anime, they are called Logan and Auroran.

and the Auroran did appear in all its 3 modes.

OOoh, I need screen caps! Oh, or an episode name, I'd like to see it in action.

I was merely pointing out that there's a reason for it's early appearance and that was the lack of animation needed to create their rather disjointed space battle arc needed to make the change of pace the first three episodes of Robotech Masters has work (for example Dana not being in the brig at the start, everyone already being on alert in the second episode blah blah blah). And again that the dialog makes it pretty clear that the AGACs in that episode aren't actually AGACs. If I recall correctly they were drawn as different fighters when Comico did the Dana's Story Special comic.

Yep, all stuff I'm aware of... but within the context of the show none of that matters. It exists, then doesn't exist, then exists again, still looks like a helicopter in space, and all the mechs look like a backward devolution of "robotechnology"

[1st Border Red Devil]

and the Auroran did appear in all its 3 modes.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. The Auroran never appeared in the series outside of its Crusader (Fighter) and CosmoSniper (Battloid) modes. It would likely have been seen in the Cross Fighter mode (Helicopter) had the series continued to its '2nd season', somewhere between eps. 24 and 36. The only thing that exists for the Auroran's Cross Fighter is lineart from This is Animation Special #10 (that I am aware of), though there is probably some wireframe lineart of it somewhere.

[lord_breetai]

Sorry, but you are mistaken. The Auroran never appeared in the series outside of its Crusader (Fighter) and CosmoSniper (Battloid) modes. It would likely have been seen in the Cross Fighter mode (Helicopter) had the series continued to its '2nd season', somewhere between eps. 24 and 36. The only thing that exists for the Auroran's Cross Fighter is lineart from This is Animation Special #10 (that I am aware of), though there is probably some wireframe lineart of it somewhere.

Your forgetting about the mysterious transformation sheet that Tommy told us about.

And I'm amazed it took you this long to join us Brook, were you on vacation?

[Birdman]

And did anyone else have the Lana Isavia kit? That one was...surprising, to say the least.

I'm pretty sure I have one squirrelled away somewhere... :blink:

[Gubaba]

I'm pretty sure I have one squirrelled away somewhere... :blink:

Good...I'm relieved that I didn't hallucinate the, erm, "special feature" on that one...

[fifbeat]

They had toys for Southern Cross.

I remember my parents taking me to Chinatown (Los Angeles, circa '86-'87).

My dad gave me like $10 for getting good grades. We walked into some shop that carried a lot of toy imports from Japan. I ended up getting the macross Mac II Destroid... anyways, I remember seeing figures for the characters in Southern Cross... you know, their armored clothing and such... they were about 8-10" tall from what I can remember.... and no, they weren't Matchbox products...

Since I never see these babies on ebay, I imagine they are more rare than Jesus.

As for the "I hate robotech" fiasco.... Macross fanatics are acting like it's the worst thing ever. There's nothing wrong with it, other than a few cuts here and there that don't effect the flow in any way.

There have been numerous import movies/shows that have been butchered for American audiences and a lot of them have gotten really bad treatment. Robotech wasn't one of them.

Robotech has a good dub job, great music and if anything, a lot of us wouldn't even know Macross existed (and Mospeada would be totally unknown to us).

[Gubaba]

They had toys for Southern Cross.

I remember my parents taking me to Chinatown (Los Angeles, circa '86-'87).

My dad gave me like $10 for getting good grades. We walked into some shop that carried a lot of toy imports from Japan. I ended up getting the macross Mac II Destroid... anyways, I remember seeing figures for the characters in Southern Cross... you know, their armored clothing and such... they were about 8-10" tall from what I can remember.... and no, they weren't Matchbox products...

Since I never see these babies on ebay, I imagine they are more rare than Jesus.

Was it Pony Toy-Go-Round? Man, I wanted to buy that whole store...

And the Southern Cross figures weren't toys, they were model kits (can't remember if they were by Arii or Imai, though). And they can't be THAT rare...I saw a bunch of them in January in Tokyo at, of all places, a used CD shop in the Kitasenju area.

As for Robotech...well, I dislike it, but it's a friendly dislike...kind of like your best pal's lame little brother. He's annoying as all hell, but if he weren't around, who would you make fun of?

[fifbeat]

Was it Pony Toy-Go-Round? Man, I wanted to buy that whole store...

And the Southern Cross figures weren't toys, they were model kits (can't remember if they were by Arii or Imai, though). And they can't be THAT rare...I saw a bunch of them in January in Tokyo at, of all places, a used CD shop in the Kitasenju area.

As for Robotech...well, I dislike it, but it's a friendly dislike...kind of like your best pal's lame little brother. He's annoying as all hell, but if he weren't around, who would you make fun of?

Man, I remember the "Pony Toy-Go-Round" store. I was on their mailing list back in the late/early 90s. I remember getting a flyer for the original Bandai re-issue (which was only like $55!!!!!!) and I never got enough money to get it. a couple years later, I did some bad things like steal my mom's credit card and order some low budget Patlabor toys... i was a bad child. :/ (when I was doing this, the Bandai poo was out of print)

I could have swore the Southern Cross figures I saw were toys and not models. I remember the box: a figure with just the clothes; and all the armor was on the right side (a la just like any other jap toy w/armor).

[Gubaba]

I could have swore the Southern Cross figures I saw were toys and not models. I remember the box: a figure with just the clothes; and all the armor was on the right side (a la just like any other jap toy w/armor).

Huh. I thought the models were all she wrote, but maybe not...

Anyone around here have confirmation or denial...?

[Ginrai]

There's a bootleg which is just the Lana model pre-constructed poorly if that helps.

[Birdman]

Good...I'm relieved that I didn't hallucinate the, erm, "special feature" on that one...

Ta-dah! Not work safe parts strategically hidden under the box edges. Working for the "Grorie Miritally Police" must be a tough gig; maybe Lana just wants to hit the shower extra quick after bringing in deserters & crooks?!

I also have Charles de Etouard/Sean Phillips - thankfully, there are no surprises in that one...

[Gubaba]

Ta-dah! Not work safe parts strategically hidden under the box edges. Working for the "Grorie Miritally Police" must be a tough gig; maybe Lana just wants to hit the shower extra quick after bringing in deserters & crooks?!

I also have Charles de Etouard/Sean Phillips - thankfully, there are no surprises in that one...

MINT IN BOX??? You lucky, lucky bastard...

That was the first kit I ever used an airbrush on...the results were less than stunning.

[Birdman]

MINT IN BOX??? You lucky, lucky bastard...

That was the first kit I ever used an airbrush on...the results were less than stunning.

I bought it in '95 for $30 CDN when I was still a Ripofftech fan - I guess it's rare but I really wouldn't know. On the other hand I also have a 1/72 Glaug that's unbuilt (in Revell Europe packaging though). Okay, now you can call me a lucky bastard...

EDIT:

Didn't mean to take things OT. The only Southern Cross toys that I'm aware of are the Matchbox Hovertank/Spartas and the Red Bioroid with Hoversled plus a few obligatory action figures.

A very poorly done replica IMO. Not my photo btw.

EDIT 2:

D'oh! Almost forgot, apparently there was also a Matchbox Hovercycle.

Also not my photo.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Birdman

[Gubaba]

Lucky bastard...

[fifbeat]

You see, I remember TOYS (non-matchbox) existed. Unless there was some other anime show that had the same kind/similar of armor costume.

[karmajay]

I know that hovercycle looks cheesy but I had to have some Southern Cross stuff, so I bought it off Ebay for 10 bucks.

[Gubaba]

You see, I remember TOYS (non-matchbox) existed. Unless there was some other anime show that had the same kind/similar of armor costume.

Saint Seiya...? Maybe...?

[Roger]

There was another series called Bt'X that had similar toys to Saint Seiya.

[Gubaba]

Yeah, but Bt'X was mid-to-late '90s...fifbeat saw these toys in 1986.

[Ginrai]

Like I said before, there were Southern Cross bootleg toys that were just the model kits already built and poorly, so maybe you saw those.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Ginrai

[fifbeat]

Like I said before, there were Southern Cross bootleg toys that were just the model kits already built and pooly, so maybe you saw those.

Yeah, I read about those the first time. Forgot to acknowledge. =)

Yeah, maybe it was those. But don't you think they would have popped up on ebay or someone might own them on this forum? (Or even a google search!)...